Would these be sufficient test protocols?

[Carn]

I often read that JREF require unfair and complicated test protocols and that ensure nobody gets the million.

I do not believe that to be true, but as far as i understand the challenge and due to the wide range of possible claims it aims at, there will be a at least slightly different test, with the only limitation that both sides agree to the protocol.

This of course would enable JREF to devise and, during the discussion, change tests so meanful, that even an honest applicant with paranormal abilities would fail or withdraw his application due to frustation. (Of course it works the other way as well, poor Randi:()

I did not find any descriptions of tests, so i just thought up some para abilities and tests for them and would like comment whether those tests would satisfy JREF rougly:

-burning paper by looking at it: applicant and JREF agree on third person, third person buys wrapped paper, closable glass container, plastic gloves. In a randomly determined car park third person dons plastic gloves, puts a sheet of paper in container and closes it. Applicant gets 10 hours for stairing hard and igniting paper inside container, but is not allowed to touch container

-healing blindness: ten persons suffering blindness due to physical defects of eyes volunteer, applicant is allowed to spend several days with each alone without being watched by anyone even cameras. If one gets eyesight back applicant has been succesful.

-aura reading: subjects are behind curtain of normal jeans material(remember, no aura reader requires undressing:D), but standing very close to it. If applicant or subjects touch curtain(4 cameras used to check for) this subject is ignored for statistics, applicant has his ears closed, a heavy perfum is applied to everybody and normal double blind test procedures apply. Applicant is allowed to tell subjects to turn round so he can feel the other side. Success is achieved, if applicant determines 180 of 200 times the gender correctly.

Would such test satisfy JREF?

And would it be even possible to take care of bad mood and vibritations, by allowing those test a dozen times in 3 months, with the condition that applicant can choose the days 1 week in advance and requiring Randi on those days to stop working for the time required, so his continues thinking how to make paranormal claimers fail does not interfere with the tests?

Carn

[Zep]

If it helps you any, the last one, aura-reading, has already been scientifically tested by a 9-year-old girl, and found to be total bunkum.

[TheBoyPaj]

Just out of interest, why a "randomly determined car park"?

Is that so someone nearby can use a magnifying lens?

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by Carn
-healing blindness: ten persons suffering blindness due to physical defects of eyes volunteer, applicant is allowed to spend several days with each alone without being watched by anyone even cameras. If one gets eyesight back applicant has been succesful. How would a regular, science-based medical cure be distinguished from the paranormal?

[Carn]

Originally posted by TheBoyPaj
Just out of interest, why a "randomly determined car park"?

Is that so someone nearby can use a magnifying lens?
More precisely i wanted to write subsurface floors of multi storey car park.

Deciding beforehand on any place, would make trickery more easy, so i wanted to write at first randomly determined building, but guess even you would have objections if suddenly a bunch of people want to enter your house to do some crazy experiments.

And car parks have further advantage of no furniture, plants, lots of other people and so on, so its just you and the paper with no way to do tricks.

Of course JREF building would do as well, if JREF can trust its employees, the cleaning staff and so on.

Carn

[Carn]

Originally posted by Michael Redman
How would a regular, science-based medical cure be distinguished from the paranormal?

I thought of causes beyond hope that have some physical defects, that are guaranteed to be never healing, like lost eye, destroyed(not only disconnected) eye nerves and so on, and the condition would be that the physical detectable defect is detected prior the start of each healing try and is completetly vanished as soon as healer says its done.

Its just, if someone is certain to be missing a leg and then after some time you see him again and he has a completly functioning biological leg, you can safely assume para normal abilities at work, without checking the details(assuming that benificial alien abductors are also para normal, even if they are just scientifical more advanced).

Carn

And excluding twins.

[exarch]

Originally posted by Carn
More precisely i wanted to write subsurface floors of multi storey car park.

Deciding beforehand on any place, would make trickery more easy, so i wanted to write at first randomly determined building, but guess even you would have objections if suddenly a bunch of people want to enter your house to do some crazy experiments.

And car parks have further advantage of no furniture, plants, lots of other people and so on, so its just you and the paper with no way to do tricks.

Of course JREF building would do as well, if JREF can trust its employees, the cleaning staff and so on.I think the main question is why a public place at all? Why a place where anyone might sneak up and ignite the paper from behind a corner with, I don't know, a laser or something, without anyone overseeing the experiment noticing this trickery.

A simple closed room seems much more convenient and controlled. The applicant can stay as long as he needs to without being interrupted by anyone.

[Carn]

Originally posted by exarch
I think the main question is why a public place at all? Why a place where anyone might sneak up and ignite the paper from behind a corner with, I don't know, a laser or something, without anyone overseeing the experiment noticing this trickery.

A simple closed room seems much more convenient and controlled. The applicant can stay as long as he needs to without being interrupted by anyone.

Ok, right, public place has disadvantages and is not realy neccesary.
Carn

[exarch]

Originally posted by Carn
Ok, right, public place has disadvantages and is not realy neccesary.I realise the paper is just an example, but the goal of any experimental protocol is to prevent any form of trickery to take place. As such, Randi, being a magician, is perfectly suited to spot possible weaknesses in a testing protocol. Still, he may need to rely on the expertise of people better versed in certain fields of science to work out exactly HOW to test something.

It's usually obvious that the applicants drop out of the challenge once the controls are tight enough and they realise they won't be able to cheat any more.