Gangsta culture is a virus

[Nie Trink Wasser]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1302814,00.html

BBC sports presenter and former Tottenham Hotspur striker Garth Crooks said there was a direct link between films and rap music glorifying violence and the drift of black boys away from education and into crime and violence.

'There is an epidemic out there, and it is killing some of our children. Do you think there could be a correlation between this and the growing dissipation of our cultural values?' he said.


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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1302610,00.html



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[phildonnia]

Similar things were said about "Bop" in the 40s, Rock in the 60s, and Punk in the 80s.

I predict that in 20 years, Gangsta rap will be on the oldies stations, and we'll find some new style of music to blame for the alienation of youth.

The "growing dissipation of our cultural values" has always brought fear, difficulty, and opposition, and ultimately it ends up enriching our lives.

[TragicMonkey]

I remember reading a wonderful statement made by a senior citizen about how dreadful modern music was, and how it led young people into vice and barbarity. It was written by a contemporary of Plato. Funny how things stay the same.

[Tony]

How much of that other music talks about, in graphic detail, killing people, slangin rocks, drive-by shootings, and treating women like *****? I used to be a fan of rap, I still like the groundbreaking stuff. But most of it is just rehashed and unoriginal crap.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Tony
But most of it is just rehashed and unoriginal crap.

Which makes rap different from all other music how?

[Tony]

The "growing dissipation of our cultural values" has always brought fear, difficulty, and opposition, and ultimately it ends up enriching our lives.

You think songs about murder and rape are going to enrich your life?

I agree that a lot of the controversy about rap is scare-mongering and old people not understand young people. That doesn't change the content of the songs.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Tony
How much of that other music talks about, in graphic detail, killing people, slangin rocks, drive-by shootings, and treating women like *****? I used to be a fan of rap, I still like the groundbreaking stuff. But most of it is just rehashed and unoriginal crap.

Heh. Songs about cold-blooded murder are a grand old tradition in folk, bluegrass, and country music. Just the ones I can think of offhand: Folsom Prison Blues ("I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die"), Pretty Polly, Tom Dooley,
Little Sadie, John Hardy, the list goes on...

[Nie Trink Wasser]

http://www.thecorky.com/new/040107/ali_g.jpg

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Tony
You think songs about murder and rape are going to enrich your life?

About as much as songs about love and sex and skater bois will.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Cleon
Heh. Songs about cold-blooded murder are a grand old tradition in folk, bluegrass, and country music. Just the ones I can think of offhand: Folsom Prison Blues ("I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die"), Pretty Polly, Tom Dooley,
Little Sadie, John Hardy, the list goes on...

Well, that ***** sucks too.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Tony
Well, that ***** sucks too.

Then don't listen to it. That's the option rap fans are taking in regard to your comments on rap.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Tony
Well, that ***** sucks too.

Well, I'm sure the only music you listen to is full of cuddly teddy bears giving each other flowers and dancing under rainbows.

In any event, violence in music has an old, old history that goes back literally centuries, if not millenia, before rap/hip-hop.

[Tony]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Then don't listen to it. That's the option rap fans are taking in regard to your comments on rap.

It sucks, therefor I don't listen to it. I thought that would be pretty clear.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

I grew up in grunge and gangsta crap and all Ive got to say is at least with the grunge sheep they're usually completely unmotivated to commit crime or ruin lives, much less anything at all.

From my experiences growing up, the people that have followed gangsta culture have all ended up deadbeat losers, in jail, or corrupt people.

I can hate gangsta culture as much as any other culture of bs...... I just know from experience that anyone that is caught up in gangsta culture are more often extremely stupid, untrustworthy and cowardly individuals.......and that seems to be the prevailing attitude in the world.

what a shining beacon of no-character to place on the alter of popular culture it is.

[Tony]

In any event, violence in music has an old, old history that goes back literally centuries, if not millenia, before rap/hip-hop.

That may be, but I can only hear so many songs about drive-by shootings, raping bitches, and selling crack before I get bored.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

I forgot to mention that watching the film Menace 2 Society makes me laugh and stand in disbelief at how incredibly stupid something can be and people still find it powerful or cool.

in 10 more years that film will be an embarrassment....something they'll watch on a mystery science theatre of the future.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Tony
That may be, but I can only hear so many songs about drive-by shootings, raping bitches, and selling crack before I get bored.
Just out of curiosity, how many "songs about drive-by shootings, raping bitches, and selling crack" can you name?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Just out of curiosity, how many "songs about drive-by shootings, raping bitches, and selling crack" can you name?

Too many to remember. I grew up listening to rap, and I still hear it all the time. You might as well ask me what I had for dinner on 4/16/96.

If you are genuinely courious, I suggest you start with:

SouthPark Mexican
Dj Screw
Murder C
Black Monks
Bone Thugs (really innovative in their time)
Older Dr Dre, lyric sample: (rat ta ta tat ta ta tat like that, cause I never hesitate to put a ni**er on his back)
Master P

[Charlie Monoxide]

Originally posted by Tony
How much of that other music talks about, in graphic detail, killing people, slangin rocks, drive-by shootings, and treating women like *****? I used to be a fan of rap, I still like the groundbreaking stuff. But most of it is just rehashed and unoriginal crap.
I'm with you Tony on these sentiments. I like some of the old Public Enemy and I still listen to Eminem. I like when the raps tells a story and has some coherent story line. I find a lot of rap is just self-aggrandization.

It seems that when rap concerts are reviewed in newspapers the following day, there tends a be a body count.

Charlie (love ma ho') Monoxide

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Tony
Too many to remember. I grew up listening to rap, and I still hear it all the time. You might as well ask me what I had for dinner on 4/16/96.

If you are genuinely courious, I suggest you start with:

SouthPark Mexican
Dj Screw
Murder C
Black Monks
Bone Thugs (really innovative in their time)
Older Dr Dre, lyric sample: (rat ta ta tat ta ta tat like that, cause I never hesitate to put a ni**er on his back)
Master P
I am familiar with all those artists, but UGK's still better. My question was about volume of songs, not artists, however. It seems to me that many people (possibly, but by no means necessarily, including you) condemn all rap with such blanket statements as yours without really knowing what they're talking about. (The position reminds me a lot of statements I used to hear at church about how all heavy metal sang about was Satan and witchcraft.) You do appear to have some background, however, so please don't take my questions as an attack.

[jj]

At least some of it is exactly the kind of virus that finds a host in a kid who is convinced that there is no hope for a "good life" inside the system.

I wonder, sometimes, how the present lot of "conservatives" explains their behavior in this light.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
I am familiar with all those artists, but UGK's still better.

I forgot about UGK. "Momma put me out at only 14, so I started sellin crack cocain and codine".

My question was about volume of songs, not artists, however.

Forgive my stoner's memory. Song titles escape me;) Hell, I don't even know the titles of most the songs I currently listen to. It's usually "Song # X" on the cd screen.

It seems to me that many people (possibly, but by no means necessarily, including you) condemn all rap with such blanket statements as yours without really knowing what they're talking about. (The position reminds me a lot of statements I used to hear at church about how all heavy metal sang about was Satan and witchcraft.)

Yes, I agree. I remember the things that were said about Marilyn Manson.

[Tmy]

GANSTA RAP!?!?? HAHAHAHA!! That basically went out with swing music. Geeez NWA has been broke up for years. Those guys all make movies now!

Step into the 2000's. Most rap is about good times/look at me/ Im so great/ Bling bling/ nothingness.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Tmy, I know I shouldnt be calling you out as it usually turns out ridiculously offtopic, but you really need to pay attention to THE TOPIC HEADING in this instance

this isnt about gangsta rap........yes some are having a conversation about what gangsta rap they listened to, but the discussion is about Gangsta Culture.........Thug Culture.......

the legacy of a hijacked-hiphop-culture by Notorious BIG and Tu Pac....both of whom were SHOT DEAD by each other because of what they were doing in pop culture

the mentality and life ambition behind the ridiculous clothing, jewerly, "language", and product lines. Go into a dance club that is dominated by hiphop and witness the degeneration of character.......not because of sex.........its a degeneration of popular culture to state in which it simply has to look or sound a certain way and stupid people are compelled to make extremely bad decisions and ruin people's lives in the pursuit of fitting in and not challenging the crowd.

My opinion on this doesnt mean I dont feel the same about different forms of us culture, this particular form I feel is the most moronic and useless.

it's talentless whoredome.

[epepke]

Originally posted by phildonnia
Similar things were said about "Bop" in the 40s, Rock in the 60s, and Punk in the 80s.

I predict that in 20 years, Gangsta rap will be on the oldies stations, and we'll find some new style of music to blame for the alienation of youth.

The "growing dissipation of our cultural values" has always brought fear, difficulty, and opposition, and ultimately it ends up enriching our lives.

Well, but of course, it is largely true. Rock in the 60s did bring about a generation who dismantled the industry of the US to buy white powder to stick up their noses. Punk in the 80s did establish meaningless, unfocused resentment, aggression, arrogance, and know-nothing pseudo-conservatism as a substitute for thought. Not to mention amyl- and butyl-nitrate, just like glue-sniffing only more expensive.

I have no idea what you mean by "bop." Be-bop? That was the 50s. The 40's were more jitterbug, boogie woogie, and swing. And these had their problems, too, at least inasmuch as they paved the way for the Boomers.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser

the mentality and life ambition behind the ridiculous clothing, jewerly, "language", and product lines. Go into a dance club that is dominated by hiphop and witness the degeneration of character.......not because of sex.........its a degeneration of popular culture to state in which it simply has to look or sound a certain way and stupid people are compelled to make extremely bad decisions and ruin people's lives in the pursuit of fitting in and not challenging the crowd.
"...degeneration of popular culture..."? I'll accept this as soon as it's pointed out to me the time in this country (or any other) when popular culture wasn't concerned with status, money, power, and conformity.

My opinion on this doesnt mean I dont feel the same about different forms of us culture, this particular form I feel is the most moronic and useless.
How is it more moronic and useless than other forms of popular culture?

[LW]

Originally posted by Cleon
Heh. Songs about cold-blooded murder are a grand old tradition in folk, bluegrass, and country music.

Yup. I happen to have one LP-full of 19th century folk songs on my laptop. (Not pirated, I ripped them directly from the original record that I have).

The LP has 17 songs. Of those, 3 speak about specific murders that happened between 1860-80 (murders of Pikkulammi, Juha Malm, and Juha Mäenpää) , one about an attempted murder (Oskari Julin trying to kill a policeman), one about notorious criminals (Antti Isotalo and Antti Rannanjärvi), one about an unnamed convict on his way to Siberia (punishment reserved for murderers), and finally one bragging song written by a criminal (Juha Kankaanpää).

That's 7 songs about criminals out of 17, that is 41%. Of those seven, four are fast songs in a major key that take very light-hearted approach on the subject, including lines like "It was a magnificient way how we stopped the dance" referring to the murder of Malm (Komiasti vaan me Fräntilän sillalla lopetethin tanssi). The rest songs include four sad love songs, one happy love song, three general bragging songs, one generally sad song, and one patriotic song.