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corplinx
19th March 2003, 11:44 PM
One thing that bothers me about modern xian thought (especially in the protestant realm) is the thought that you must pray daily to God for guidance and wisdom. They preach that you should pray before switching jobs or making a large purchase.

They tell their flocks to pray that God help them with their addictions, their failures, their losses.

Now, if I was to walk into a "holy place" where supposedly "God's people" are gathered, would I want to walk in at the lowest point of my life or the highest point? Obviously, if you beleived in a God, you would want to do so at the highest point to show this God what a great job you did. However, the message from the pulpits seems to be that God is the wrench in a bottle for all the losers out there.

Now, as someone forced to go to protestant churches as a young man. I distinctly remember a parable about two men with money. One hid his in the ground because he could not ask his master/lord what to do with them. The other started a burgeoning business. When the master/lord returned, he was proud of the man who _without_ his guidance or help used his money in a successful way and was perturbed with the man who hid his in the ground afraid to doing anything without his master's permission.

Modern Xianity sees the money in this parable as you natural ability. They construe it as "if you can play piano, play". I think they missed the whole point. Perhaps the God that Jesus believed in wants people to use the brains and bodies he supposedly gave them productively and not go around asking his permission all the time.

So, who do you think would be more likely to go to heaven? The practicing Xian who prays everyday for the Lord to lead him or someone like Carl Sagan who used his brain to expand the field of cosmology and give us a better understanding of the universe.

Perhaps the biggest catch-22 in xianity is that the best way to get to their heaven is by being a humanist instead of a theist.

Anyway, this is just a thought experiment. It could be a really lousy one. I usually steer clear of theological discussions myself but I have been thinking about this for a few weeks.

20th March 2003, 12:50 AM
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So, who do you think would be more likely to go to heaven? The practicing Xian who prays everyday for the Lord to lead him or someone like Carl Sagan who used his brain to expand the field of cosmology and give us a better understanding of the universe.
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Sagan did a lot to popularize science. He had very little impact in terms of original research from what I remember.

UnrepentantSinner
20th March 2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Whodini
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So, who do you think would be more likely to go to heaven? The practicing Xian who prays everyday for the Lord to lead him or someone like Carl Sagan who used his brain to expand the field of cosmology and give us a better understanding of the universe.
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Sagan did a lot to popularize science. He had very little impact in terms of original research from what I remember.

Check again.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carl+sagan+

Smalso
20th March 2003, 05:28 AM
Trying to figure out the mysteries and paradoxes of the various Christian beliefs gives me a headache.

20th March 2003, 09:58 AM
Yeah, Carl was right on with the whole Kuwati fires and nuclear winter. ;)

But I must admit my mistake. I did a journal article search for Carl Sagan, and found tons of original articles that he wrote.

My error.

It would have been correct to say that his writing of popular material was larger than his writing of scientific articles.

Akots
20th March 2003, 10:26 AM
He whos words exceed his deeds, know verily that his death was better than his life.

Upchurch
20th March 2003, 10:34 AM
Probably one of Segan's greatest accomplishments is the one thing that most scientists are the worst at. He made science accessable and interesting to the general public. He showed us how the real world is by far more complex and interesting than any made up fictional world or supernatural whatevers.

If there were more Carl Sagans, there would be less Sylvia Browns and John Edwards.

kourama
20th March 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Upchurch
Probably one of Segan's greatest accomplishments is the one thing that most scientists are the worst at. He made science accessable and interesting to the general public. He showed us how the real world is by far more complex and interesting than any made up fictional world or supernatural whatevers.

If there were more Carl Sagans, there would be less Sylvia Browns and John Edwards.

Wow, very quotable. Only I would like to humbly add a correction

"If there were more Carl Sagans, there would be fewer Sylvia Browns and John Edwards."

Upchurch
20th March 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by kourama

Only I would like to humbly add a correction Them stupids grammer. My no liking them.

If I may offer a correction of my own, it's a lowercase "c" in my name. It's a small thing, but ya know....

kourama
20th March 2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Upchurch
Them stupids grammer. My no liking them.

If I may offer a correction of my own, it's a lowercase "c" in my name. It's a small thing, but ya know....

D'oh! I have this habit of random cAptialiZation when I type. :)