The 1 million dollar paranormal challenge is bogus.

[1inChrist]

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/controversies/Keen_psychicchallenge.htm

Read it.

[TheFeds]

Randi wrote a response to this individual a year ago. (Third item.) (http://www.randi.org/jr/091903.html)

Read it.

[1inChrist]

Keen responds to Randi's response. (http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/keen/jamesrandi.htm)

Read it.

[1inChrist]

I won this debate.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate.
So, since no-one disputed you within three hours, you win? What's that, the argument from bedtime, or something?

[MRC_Hans]

Debate? Which Debate?? I can't see 1inC debate anything here. He's just making quotes.

Hans

[1inChrist]

http://victorzammit.com/articles/montague.html

[Ashles]

1inchrist you sound really quite scared about this whole million dollar challenge.

It's really quite pitiful when you have to run to Victor Zammit as some kind of defense. This man offers a clearly far more bogus million dollar challenge (he provides no evidence of his money existing, and is sking to prove a negative - not a scientific method in any sense, and pretty much illogical) yet you are happy to believe him because he supports your beliefs.

What's the matter, worried about the repeated failure of evidence towards any of your beliefs? Sometimes that does make people think.

This isn't a debate you win (that is such a childish attitude you have) it is about personal beliefs.
You have no evidence of your beliefs being true that is any way convincing or scientific. But no-one says you can't believe whatever you want to believe. If you feel threatened by the challenge and what it represents that's your problem. Posting links to believers' web sites isn't going to convince anyone either way.

All claims of paranormal ability have been demonstrated to be false when scientifically analysed. If you want to demonstrate otherwise, please do so either with the JREF or some scientific organisation of your own choosing. If you can't then the JREF results seem to reflect current scientific thinking and evidence pretty well.

By the way you don't appear to be very Christian in any way (quick to anger, argumentative, childish, petulant, competitive etc.). Whatever happened to tolerance, love, acceptance and turn the other cheek? Do you practice what you preach? (From your other threads I know you don't)

[kookbreaker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate.

Winston?

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Ashles

By the way you don't appear to be very Christian in any way (quick to anger, argumentative, childish, petulant, competitive etc.). Whatever happened to tolerance, love, acceptance and turn the other cheek? Do you practice what you preach?
Either you haven't met these people, or my irony meter is bust. The problem is briefly: they are wrong; they require a conspiracy theory to save the appearances for them being right; the only way to explain the existence of the conspiracy is to suppose that everyone involved is just plain evil.

1inChrist: why don't we continue this debate on the thread YOU started about the million-dollar challenge, which we were responding to, and where we were explaining what a donkey Victor Zammit is. In lieu of this, I shall just repeat my last post from that thread. You asked "what's wrong with Victor Zammit". I replied:
Originally posted by Dr Adequate
I really wouldn't like to say. The words "pathetic", "ridiculous" and "futile" come to mind. But read the site, would you? In particular, compare HIS challenge with Randi's. Look at points seven and ten, will you? And then maybe you'd like to consider my thread

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45669

challenging sceptical materialist Apotterists to debunk the Harry Potter books --- by Mr Zammit's rules. Care to apply, 1inChrist? A million dollars could be yours --- so long as Victor Zammit's rules are fair, of course.

I was just fascinated by the quality of your best evidence for the paranormal. Would you make me very very happy, and tell me your favorite disproof of evolution?
Will you engage in debate, or ignore it? If the latter: GO AWAY.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by kookbreaker
Winston? No need to look for socks. The supply of fresh idiots is inexhaustible.

Hans

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Either you haven't met these people, or my irony meter is bust. The problem is briefly: they are wrong; they require a conspiracy theory to save the appearances for them being right; the only way to explain the existence of the conspiracy is to suppose that everyone involved is just plain evil.

1inChrist: why don't we continue this debate on the thread YOU started about the million-dollar challenge, which we were responding to, and where we were explaining what a donkey Victor Zammit is. In lieu of this, I shall just repeat my last post from that thread. You asked "what's wrong with Victor Zammit". I replied:

Will you engage in debate, or ignore it? If the latter: GO AWAY.

Want me to prove Harry Potter is fiction? Look at any biography of J.K. Rowling and she will admit to creating the story in the early 90's. Hmmm...... now find me someone who admits to creating the Gospels.

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Want me to prove Harry Potter is fiction? Look at any biography of J.K. Rowling and she will admit to creating the story in the early 90's. Hmmm...... now find me someone who admits to creating the Gospels.

I admit it. Happy now?

[Ashles]

Look at any biography of J.K. Rowling and she will admit to creating the story in the early 90's
Probably a cover story put in by the publishers to prevent lawsuits.
Or the government to maintain the status quo

Do you know JK Rowling? Have you ever met her?

They have to legally put fiction disclaimers into the credits of many factual films in case people sue for specific details or character references.

Welcome to the desert of the real.

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate.

HAHA...

I can post internet BS as evidence too. I have proof of aliens here http://www.alien-ufos.com/img/ufos/catalina_island1.gif

Where's my million?

[Stitch]

now find me someone who admits to creating the Gospels. [/B]

Well somebody had to, even if under the instruction of a god otherwise they wouldn't be here. Just because they don't contain the statement "all characters and events referred to herein are entirely fictional" doesn't make them fact either.

[Carn]

Originally posted by Ashles
Probably a cover story put in by the publishers to prevent lawsuits.
Or the government to maintain the status quo

Do you know JK Rowling? Have you ever met her?

They have to legally put fiction disclaimers into the credits of many factual films in case people sue for specific details or character references.

Welcome to the desert of the real.

Ashles you're intuition is great, though your concious has not yet understood the whole picture.

Its not problems with your law, that Rowling fears, she has to keep the law that proof of magic must not be shown to muggles.

Then why does she write books about it, you might ask?

A bit of history about this, there is and has been a debate and even struggle for thousands of years among us, how to treat the muggles, whether you are inferior not only in magic ability, but also intelectual and emotionally or not, whether you have to be guided, controlled, ignored or approached openly.

Its all in your legend and myths, though a bit clouded.

At first we tried just to enable you a live in happiness, without pain, hunger or disease, as this trivial matters can be dealt with by our magic. This had required you to do unquestionally what we told you, as you had no wisdom and understanding of the world. But your hunger for power caused you to try to abuse the gifts given for free and so it had to end, you were expelled from paradies and it had to be disconnected from the world.

Then after some time we thought you did not accept paradies as it was beyond your understanding and that it could be given to you again, if you would just understand and see what magic is and how it works. It was estimated that it would be a lengthy teaching task going on for several generations, we decided to start somewhere and so Atlantis was founded on an unsettled continent in the middle of the atlantic ocean. Muggles came and were brought there, few at start and more and more latter when word spread about it, and magic was demonstrated and explained to them and those who were not to afraid to stay, could experience how magic could make life wonderful. But there was a flaw. For the demonstrations and explanations it was necessary, to create magic artifacts that could be operated by muggles. And as you know one day hatred and thirst for power took you and you started a war. You could not have and did not the win the war, but the loss of live was so tremendous, that the project was abandoned. To remove traces of it, as you would have started a war again even for the ruins, the entire continent was removed from earths surface.

Most of us ignored you for a long time afterwards, but some were full of hatred for you, they thought that sooner or later Atlantis would happen again and thought this to be good enough reason to eradicate you. The only thing they could prepare without notice was a flood. The Flood. They were so full of hatred for you that they were even willing to kill any land life in an attempt to kill you all. Their plan was discovered, but it was to late to stop them, so only some could be warned and safed. Most of the murderes were caught and sentenced, but some escaped and their ideas continue to exist until today. But there was a correction to that evil plan, they decided that they have to control the wizards first before eradicating you. Among those is the one whose name is not spoken.

There was even some unspoken support from many among us, at least for the idea, that something has to be done about you. To keep those from listening to the murderers, it was decided as a compromise, that you have to be guided. To achieve that the world was divided in different regions and for each region, there was a different group responsible. They tried to impose rules upon you by posing as gods. The system worked in principal, but when you started to travel among great distances, you discovered discrepancies in the different believe systems, which were due to the fact that the different groups developed different believes, how you should be guided and were so close minded, that they started to svoid the regular meetings that were meant to prevent such things. We decided that it could not be kept up longer and the "gods" vanished. Hope was that the believe systems would survive and keep you from doing stupid things

Unfortunately some greeks were to clever and realised that, as we kept the magic apart from your world, that nature is guided by rules and set out to discover those rules. We feared you would use the knowledge to invent new ways of killing. So a new religion was needed to keep you from asking dangerous questions. But a compelling idea arised: Why not allow you to tap some of the hidden powers even you muggles have inside the boundaries of the religion and that way allow you to have a comfortable life as well and so keep you satisfied?
So the wizard acting as religion founder taught some minor healing spells, that can be used by everyone, though tried to tie them to the religous believes. We did not expect the fear caused by this and saw, that instead of making life easier, it caused mass murdering. Horrified, we decided to make small changes in the teachings, so that the spells no longer work.

The religion still fulfilled its job, although some additional had to be started, but after a 1000 years, some of us felt that we have the duty to ease your suffering. The idea to openly offer our magic help or to teach you some magic both failed in the past, therefore they tried a new way, they lived among you offering their services, but tried to keep a low profile by hidding it behind useless rituals and by avoiding big cities. We were horrified by your reaction, by the cries of million innocents you were ready to kill, just to get a handful of us. The whole project was stopped. But your killing did not stop, it got even worse. This was oil to the fire of hatred burning in the hearts of the murderers and due to the shocked public silence, they spread their word openly and gained so many followers, that they were nearly strong enough to topple the government. They modified diseases, so they were even more deadly for you. And they started a civil war. It lasted for hundereds of years. As all efforts went into batteling the murderers, there was no time to look after you. When the rebels were defeated, their leaders fled and hid among you to keep us from effectively searching for them, as we already knew how many you could kill with fire and sword and did not want to know how many it would be with guns and cannons.

But we underated the rebels cruelty: As they did not have the means to eradicate you they wanted you to do the task. And all they needed was a charisma and a luck spell and a few madmen. If not for some direct intervention at some cruicial points, they would have suceeded. The last rebels were caught or killed and we thought again of how to guide you gently.

Though only for a few months, until 6.8.1945. On that day you demonstrated that no insanity is beyond you.

For a moment the rebels goal seemed a sensible option. But there were signs of hope and good will on your part and you demonstrateda great skill at finding and accepting new knowledge.

Now, at the beginning of the new millenium there are three options:
1. eradicate you, nobody says it openly, but it is talked about in dark corners.
2. downsize you again in numbers and in knowledge and keep you down by enforcing via constant indirect guidance, many believe its not possible, as it would have to be without flaw. But the supporters of the idea already have and are demonstrating that at least the downsizing in knowledge is possible, by letting many individuals experience some trivial spells, that contradict your science and thereby weakening its acceptance.
3.help you to accept magic without abusing it and thereby starting a new age. Many think its a dreamers postion. But its Rowlings and also mine.

Rowling writes the stories of Harry Potter, to make prepare you for realizing its true(Ok, its not a report, Harry Potter allowed her to make necessary changes), but at the same time avoid braking the letter of the laws, although mainy claim she violates the spirit. The book mainly adresses children, they are more open. She has also woven a weak(maybe noot weak enough) mind control spell into the words or do you realy believe somebody could make such a bestseller without magic?

I also try this by posting here, and no i am not allowed to demonstrate any spells, it has the same sentence as murder.
And i'm not braking the law, as i have made some posts before this and waited till someone brought the idea up again(which i predicted corectly via divination), so close minded(= dangerous)
people will argue "heh, he just had the idea for this boring joke when he read this posts and by his other posts we can see that he is just trolling when continuing this nonsense".
But to the open minded i can show ways how they can help option3 come true and that way safe yourself from great suffering:

Ignore all this paranormal nonsense like ufos, dowsing, homoepathy, astrology,... it has all been devised by option 2 fans and does not work, instead read the Potter books closely and try to find hints how to discover the world of magic and follow these hints with great scrutinity and effort. Though i warn you that some of the hints are fakes, that Rowling had to insert, to keep the law, so do not expect immiediate success.

To demonstrate how you could find something i choose something randomly(may or may not be true): the secret access to the magic railway station. What does happen to the surronding air when someone goes in or out? Shouldn't there be some strange smeels around the spot from the other side. Count the people entering and leaving the normal station with luggage and the number of passengers with luggage on trains, there would have to be a difference.

I hope i gave you an idea, how to save your world. But i cannot say much more without legal risks, its likely i will have to avoid further lenghty explanations(maybe i will reposts this again), i might still give small hints and point out that you cannot disprove me.

So please expect me when you ask me any more questions about this, that i will testify its just a joke i made up to demonstrate thats impossible to disprove some foolish stories and that i will also make further posts, that will make you think i'm a sceptic and believe in the scientific world view. Sorry this is unavoidable.

Carn

[Ashles]

But all I want is to be able to magic people's bottoms closed.

Is that really too much to ask?

[Zep]

Originally posted by kookbreaker
Winston? POINTS FOR:
-> Winston thought the sun shone out of Zammit's fundamental orifice (they were bossom-buddies).
-> Winston thought Montague Keen was worthy of worship for his writings on speaking with the afterlife.

POINTS AGAINST:
-> Winston did not claim to be a born-again Christian recently. He was one when younger but lapsed when he got interested in ghosts.
-> Winston was really interested in Chinese medicine, photographing ghosts and orbs, and speaking with the dead - not 1inC's line at all.
-> Winston was also keen on "easy" young Russian girls and rubbishing the USA - again, not in 1inC's repetoire.

RESULT: Probably no match.

[Zep]

1inC, what's it like thinking to yourself as you step up to the plate that you are going to slam the first pitch into the stands and clean the loaded bases, only to find that you get struck out in three balls without even swinging the bat? For the umpteenth time in a row?

Do you think it's time to practice up a little more? Or perhaps to consider changing games? Hmmm?

[jimmygun]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Want me to prove Harry Potter is fiction? Look at any biography of J.K. Rowling and she will admit to creating the story in the early 90's. Hmmm...... now find me someone who admits to creating the Gospels.

The books 'Harry Potter' are fiction but the spells the characters use are real. That is, according to the fundie nut cases that slam the movies, fearing their children will learn to cast spells.

[Temporal Renegade]

Originally posted by jimmygun
The books 'Harry Potter' are fiction but the spells the characters use are real. That is, according to the fundie nut cases that slam the movies, fearing their children will learn to cast spells.

Whereas I, myself, learned all my magic spells & such from reading 'Dr. Strange'.:D

[rppa]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Want me to prove Harry Potter is fiction? Look at any biography of J.K. Rowling and she will admit to creating the story in the early 90's. Hmmm...... now find me someone who admits to creating the Gospels.

Wait... you don't believe there really ever was a Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

[thaiboxerken]

rppa, such logical questions won't sway 1's opinion.. He thinks logic and reason are of the devil, after all.

[Joe_Black]

looks more like a publicity stunt.

[Dr Adequate]

I was hoping that the long silence from 1inChrist was the noise a fundie makes while reading a geology textbook. But he's just started wibbling away on other threads.

[Powa]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
...snip... But he's just started wibbling away on other threads.
I believe this is called "drive-by posting".

[exarch]

Originally posted by Powa
I believe this is called "drive-by posting".Only if you don't come back to the thread to respond to people. This is more a form of "passive debate termination" (i.e. you stop responding so the people arguing against your case lose interest, hopefully).