If all psychics are cold readers, tell me.......

[1inChrist]

Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

[thaiboxerken]

Actuall, no skeptic maintains the position that all psychics are cold readers. Some psychics do research on their subjects first.

Oh, and yes, I have convinced a couple people using cold-reading techniques that I'm psychic. This only proves that people can be fooled, however, not that all psychics are cold-readers.

We don't have evidence that there are not psychics in the world, there just isn't any evidence that supports that psychics are real.

[Vikram]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

No.

Wow! Therefore psychics must be real!

Now where's my checkbook...

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

Me? Nope. That's because I have no showmanship whatsoever. I have showed them techniques that some psychics use, however.

[Marquis de Carabas]

1inChrist,

Not all psychics are cold readers. Some are agents of the devil. Figured you'd know that one.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
1inChrist,

Not all psychics are cold readers. Some are agents of the devil. Figured you'd know that one.

Yes, psychics get their powers from Satan and not the Lord. However they do offer PROOF of Satan, which proves God.

[Marquis de Carabas]

That settles it, then...

1) Some psychic are not cold readers.
2) Psychics who are not cold readers get their powers from Satan.
3) If a person receives powers from an entity, that entity must exist.
4) Satan must exist.
5) Therefore God must exist.

HA! Suck on that, "skeptics"!

[MRC_Hans]

1inC: Why is proof of Satan proof of God? Perhaps Satan is the only superiour being that exists.

Hans :p

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
1inC: Why is proof of Satan proof of God? Perhaps Satan is the only superiour being that exists.

Hans :p

Nonsense.

[RabbiSatan]

Nonsense.
Irony...overload.......can't............contain... ....

BWAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!

Back to our regularly scheduled program...*smirk*

[Ersby]

Since I always tell people I'm cold reading before I begin, there's little room for anyone to believe I'm the real deal. Still, I've done a couple of readings which people have said were "spooky" etc.

But, then again, I don't believe all pyschics are cold readers. Just the ones on Larry King Live.

[TheBoyPaj]

1inChrist, if you believe logic is the tool of the devil, why do you attempt to use it (albeit in a clumsy and erroneous manner)?

[Lothian]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes, psychics get their powers from Satan and not the Lord. However they do offer PROOF of Satan, which proves God. What powers are they then ?

I have heard that they have some powers but when tested they don't appear to have any.

[MRC_Hans]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MRC_Hans
1inC: Why is proof of Satan proof of God? Perhaps Satan is the only superiour being that exists.

Hans
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nonsense

I'n not letting you off that easy:

Let us assume that we discover proof of an evil superiour being which answers to the name "Satan" and which fits the commonly accepted description of Satan.

How does that prove the another superiour entitiy, "God" exists?

Why is it not possible that "Satan" could be the only superiour being in existence?

Hans

[Lothian]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I'n not letting you off that easy:

Let us assume the we discover proof of an evil superiour being which answers to the name "Satan" and which fits the commonly accepted description of Satan.

How does that prove the another superiour entitiy, "God" exists?

Why is it not possible that "Satan" could be the only superiour being in existence?

Hans Hans, stop using the satanistic tools of logic. The bible clearly says God made satan.

[Vikram]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Nonsense.

Why so? Pray tell.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes, psychics get their powers from Satan and not the Lord. However they do offer PROOF of Satan, which proves God.

1inChrist, listen to what MRC_Hans is saying. He's trying to teach you something you desperately need to learn.

[Nyarlathotep]

I have never done a cold reading for much the same reason that Ihave never done the "sawing a woman in half" trick or pulled a coin from someone's ear. That reason, of course, is that I am not a magician. But like the previously mentioned tricks, I know how cold reading works.

No one has claimed that all psychics are cold readers (nice strawman, though) but let me ask you this. If I walked up to you and pulled a coin from your ear, which would seem more likely: That I magically materialized a coin out of your ear or that I used some sleight of hand to look like I did? So when I see the likes of John Edward showing his "abilities" using the same techniques a cold reader would the idea that he is actually doing cold reading seems far more likely to me than the idea that he is someohw talking to the dead.

[rppa]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

The people in this forum are for the most part not entertainers, so they don't have direct personal experience with doing a mentalist act.

If you're really interested, here's an account of an entertainer who got trained in cold reading techniques and then convinced a number of people she was a real psychic, much to her dismay.

http://www.randi.org/swift/current/psychic.html

[hgc]

I once read a woman's palm in a bar. It was a joke and I assumed she was also in on the joke. I was uttering complete, but believable (in the sense that it could happen), nonsense. After a few minutes I was shocked to realize that she was completely buying it. I was both horrified by her gullibility and delighted by the possibilities.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by hgc
I once read a woman's palm in a bar. It was a joke and I assumed she was also in on the joke. I was uttering complete, but believable (in the sense that it could happen), nonsense. After a few minutes I was shocked to realize that she was completely buying it. I was both horrified by her gullibility and delighted by the possibilities.

"...and see this line here. It indicates you should sleep with palm-readers whenever presented the opportunity."

[Bandersnatch]

Twice, myself.

Once online, and once with a friend.

Both, however, I told was a cold reading.

Heh, my friend as if I was sure I was only cold reading. Freaked him out real good!

[Ashles]

Yes I have done it on a complete stranger.

I told him his sexuality, living conditions, current personal life and recent relationship history.

I pretended it was from reading his palm.

He was absolutely amazed.

[Ashles]

Oh yes, the palmist in the holistic healing centre where I used to work freely admitted to me that he only used palmistry as a way of meeting girls and he didn't believe in it at all.

He certainly got good results from his deception.

[Hellbound]

While not a showman myself, I've had good results in making people think I'm "psychic" using Tarot cards. The cards all have very general descriptions that could apply to almost anyone in any situation, and many times have multiple interpretations. By doing the layout and beginning to describe what the cards tradiationally represent, I can watch the "mark" for clues...subconscious reactions to certain parts of the description that seem to be right. Since it's a ten card spread, each later card can be used to focus in on the particular issue. I usually do the Tarot schtick without the person I'm reading telling me anything about what they want the reading for. I go in completely cold, usually only knowing the person's name. I can often identify the things that are worrying them currently, tell them what options they're considering, and even get specific information about them, all by reading reactions.

It's not really very hard to do. I was suprised at how easy it was with the Tarot cards, and how often people would fall for it. I always told them afterwards that it was bogus...I'm not one to defraud others for profit. However, on several ocassions I've had people convinced that I was psychic, even after I told them what I had done (in some cases even going into details about what clues tipped me off to certain things). I had one girl who made me take the cards out of her house..she wouldn't let the deck be out anywhere because they were, in her words, "Tools of Satan." *sigh* This was a woman who drank regularly and heavily, gambled, left her kids at home for days at a time unattended, and used some recreational drugs. Tarot cards were the least of her worries. Easier to complain about tools of satan and feel righteous than actually change your life for the better.

But I digress.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?
I know a man who Believes Weird Things. He told me about a guy he knew whose internal organs were reversed. I told him this guy had a twin. He got very exited over my psychic ability, which I HADN'T EVEN CLAIMED TO HAVE. I just said "the guy has a twin, doesn't he?" and immediately, I'm "psychic". There is no other way I could have known that. I wonder how much more wowed out he'd have been if I'd told him it was a male, identical twin. Dr Adequate sees all! When he discovered this was just part of the Magic Of Knowing Stuff By Finding Out About It --- the kind of magic I perform best --- he was terribly disappointed.

This is what you get if your FIRST explanation of something you don't understand is "mysterious occult forces unknown to science". 1inChrist, I recommend that you learn from his example.

[Nyarlathotep]

Actually, people are amazingly gullible. Though, as I said, I have never done a cold reading, I did once have a joke drive the point of people's gullibility home quite well.

I used to do QC work in a foundry. I was checking the thickness of some metal tubes with an ultrasonic device. Some girl I worked with(who admittedly, was not the sharpest knife in the drawer) , who was about 8 months pregnant, asked me what the device was. I told her it was an ultrasonic tester, and she said "Like what they check babies with"

As a joke I answered "sure, I can tell you your babies sex with it", not expecting her to belive me. She believed me.

So I decided to go with it. I put the lead on her stomach, fiddled randomly with the knobs and dials and told her it was a boy.

She was amazed since she already knew it was a boy. It didn't seem to occur to her that my odds of being right were 50-50.

Some people are so darn gullible it is pathetic.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by 1inChrist but edited by me for the benefit of Potterians
Yes, psychics get their powers from Voldemort and not Harry Potter. However they do offer PROOF of Voldemort, which proves Harry Potter.

Originally posted by 1inChrist but edited by me for the benefit of pagans
Yes, psychics get their powers from Loki and not Odin. However they do offer PROOF of Loki which proves Odin.

1inChrist, one of the most important tools you need to add to your mental kit is to check lines of argument by substituting terms. If I can play this trick on your line of argument, it's no good.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by TheBoyPaj
1inChrist, if you believe logic is the tool of the devil, why do you attempt to use it (albeit in a clumsy and erroneous manner)?
Perhaps it's only sinful if you get it right.

[BPSCG]

It's a good thing my wife isn't a crook, because she has the natural ability to be the best phony psychic you ever heard of.

She is very good at "reading" people. Our first date, she was finishing half my sentences, even though we hardly knew each other at the time. I was thinking, "Wow, this lady's really in tune with me", when fact of the matter was, she was just good at picking up things like that. I've seen her do it time and again with other people. She has this uncanny ability to sense where a sentence is going.

She can say something, you contradict her understanding 180 degrees, she rephrases and suddenly you think she completely groks what you just said. Well, other people do - I don't any more, 'cuz I know her. :)

She meets people for the first time that I've known for ten years, and in ten minutes knows more about them than I do, which I suppose you could argue shows what a lack of empathy I have. I've seen people she's just met telling her about surgery I never knew they'd had.

It's scary.

Imagine how dangerous she could be if she picked up a book on how to do cold reading.

There's got to be a way to put this talent to work to make us rich...

[hgc]

Originally posted by BPSCG
...

There's got to be a way to put this talent to work to make us rich... If a cretinous toad like Sylvia Browne can do it, then your path to riches is clear. The question is: are you and your wife sufficiently lacking in moral integrity?

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by hgc
If a cretinous toad like Sylvia Browne can do it, then your path to riches is clear. The question is: are you and your wife sufficiently lacking in moral integrity? No.

Dammit.

:(

[Operaider]

Oh yes, the palmist in the holistic healing centre where I used to work freely admitted to me that he only used palmistry as a way of meeting girls and he didn't believe in it at all. I can attest that this does work very well. I learned how to read palms for that exact same reason. That and at the time I though there might be something to it. All it took was reading books on it to realize it's all generalized nonsense. Still it helps if you know how to use the proper terms. Especially terms that sound exotic (Example: Via Lasciva, Girdle of Venus, The Ring of Solomon, La Croix Mysique). You don't really need to know the meaning of the terms; you just need to be able to throw out the phrase while pretending to be serious. Really, the hardest part is not laughing.

P.S. I suggest trying this around people who have been drinking. It's much easier to get people to believe the bullsh!t when their not thinking straight. Around true believers alcohol isn't necessary. The "not thinking straight" takes care of itself.

[CurtC]

Originally posted by TheBoyPaj
1inChrist, if you believe logic is the tool of the devil, why do you attempt to use it (albeit in a clumsy and erroneous manner)? I think only valid, proper logic must be the tool of the devil. 1inC's is A-OK with the big guy.

[jj]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

Yes.

And they continued to think so, very annoyingly, after I told them I was not, explained how I determined what I determined, pointed to evidence, phrasing, disambiguation by the subject, etc.

That's why I don't do it any more.

The final shot was: Well, you have the gift and you won't even admit it. You're an idiot.

Gift Schmift! It was a cold reading, and not even a very good one.

(grrr)

[jj]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Nonsense.

Unh. Why is that nonsense. Why, espeically given the cruel, suffering, dying world we live in, does there have to be anything beyond an evil authority?

Can you PROVE it? How about it?

[thaiboxerken]

Cold reading isn't hard to do on a believer, you can absolutely be horrible at it and they will likely believe you have superpowers. Look at Van Praag, for example, he has many fooled and he's the worst of the popular "psychics". Cold reading is simply taking credit for information supplied by your client.

[Dogwood]

1inChrist,

Do you believe that all self professed psychics truly have paranormal abilities, whether those powers come from Satan or not, or do you accept that some may be plain ol' human charlatans?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Dogwood
1inChrist,

Do you believe that all self professed psychics truly have paranormal abilities, whether those powers come from Satan or not, or do you accept that some may be plain ol' human charlatans?

Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

You mean George Bush?


sorry, couldn't resist.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?
Yes, and my cold-reading was so impressive I convinced Marian I was real. Now thats talent!

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

And which ones are real?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Dogwood
And which ones are real?
The ones who get their power from the father of lies. Duh. :D

[Spektator]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

I lurk more than post, but since this question has been posed....

Yes, I have. It made me feel really bad, too, especially when the person I "read" refused to believe that my astoundingly accurate information was a combination of cold reading and accidentally overheard information. I confessed everything, and the person still insisted (and told others) that I was psychic. I also once did the silly "one-ahead" billet reading trick, very very crudely, for a small group, and despite the fact that I told them all it was only a trick, for a long time after that people kept telling me they had heard I had psychic gifts. You can fool all of the people some of the time.

[EdipisReks]

*yawn*. how boring. 1inchrist reminds me of the song Idiot Wind.

[Kitty Chan]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

1 in Christ

If you think about the last post confessing to their friend that it was a lie and the friend still not believing him that should explain a whole lot to you. Not to mention many have spoken about how they did cold readings and faked it.

Like it was said some people can "size up" another quicker than others, tied in with the one being sized desire for this to be true and it can be powerful combination.

If its for entertainment and everyone laughs says wow and thats the end of it great! lots of fun.

But what everyone objects to is when these guys use their talents at reading to control and amaze others. And are not thinking of what may be best for the others and how to help them but only what money and continued control for more money they can rake out of them.

To be accurate thats evil, actual evil, using others personally to gain for yourself, and to continue to use them even if you are hurting them. If ya wanna get real accurate from a christian view a physic is using their God given ablity to be able to be sensitive to others needs and help them and choosing instead to go opposite and hurt them instead for their own needs.

If anyone wanted an example (non Hollywood) of what the devil would be up to this would be it. Much more subtle than most think. Not as dramatic as puking pea soup but movies are generally more dramatic than life.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

i had no idea Don LaPre (http://www.infomercialscams.com/don_lapre.htm) had the ability to grant his powers to others.

[princhester]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Nonsense.

Nonsense.

Now your turn.

This is fun, we could keep this up for days.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real?

Most people I meet consider I am "real" by the fact that I am stood there in front of them. :D

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Stitch
Most people I meet consider I am "real" by the fact that I am stood there in front of them. :D
Well, that's most people. I need a cold reading now, or I will continue to believe you a mere figment of my imagination, just like Puss. (Puss: Hey! That's low, Marquis)

[Ashles]

Most people I meet consider I am "real" by the fact that I am stood there in front of them.
Ah, you haven't met Interesting Ian yet have you?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Ashles
Ah, you haven't met Interesting Ian yet have you?

Hehehe...it does make you think: If Ian stands in front of other people, does he exist? :D

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.
Did the father of lies slip that extra apostrophe in there?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

Well, there you go.

Find me a real one.

Demonstrate conclusively that his powers come from ANY sort of supernatural source.

Easy peasy.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Did the father of lies slip that extra apostrophe in there?
No, that would be the second cousin of typo's.

Augh! There he is again!

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Well, there you go.

Find me a real one.

Demonstrate conclusively that his powers come from ANY sort of supernatural source.

.......wouldn't that be using....logic?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
.......wouldn't that be using....logic?

Wait I forgot. Logic is a tool of Satan. My mistake. D'OH!

[roger]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Have you ever performed cold reading on a stranger which convinced them you were real? It's clear that you not read this website: http://www.randi.org/swift/current/psychic.html

It's clear that you haven't opened a book, or done your own research:

Practical Mental Magic (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486244261/qid=1095960560/sr=ka-3/ref=pd_ka_3/103-4104131-9699839)

Full Facts Book Of Cold Reading (http://www.ianrowland.com/ItemsToBuy/ColdReading/ColdReadingMain1.html)

It's clear you haven't even tried to do your own research:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=cold+reading+magicians

In other words, cold reading is a well documented phenonenom.


edited to delete a link that was not relevant.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Wait I forgot. Logic is a tool of Satan. My mistake. D'OH!

You will go to HELL for enticing 1inChrist to do Satan's work!!

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Stitch
Most people I meet consider I am "real" by the fact that I am stood there in front of them. :D

:D That had me in stitches. :D

[jj]

Originally posted by Vikram
:D That had me in stitches. :D

Better lie low, then, eh? :p

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by jj
Better lie low, then, eh? :p
Ow.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
You will go to HELL for enticing 1inChrist to do Satan's work!!

I do what I can:D

[Gastric ReFlux]

I gotta give 1inChrist some props though. What is it now? Over a week since his Rationalism is a faith thread and I still get to chuckle thinking about it. To think I was there when it first popped up.

:cs:

[jambo372]

Proof of Satan would prove existence of God - Satan is a figure in Christian , Jewish and Islamic religions which all put emphasis on God . It is actually thought that Satan was once God's righthand angel named Lucifer , but he went bad and God promoted another angel to take his place and throw him to hell .

[Hellbound]

Originally posted by jambo372
Proof of Satan would prove existence of God - Satan is a figure in Christian , Jewish and Islamic religions which all put emphasis on God . It is actually thought that Satan was once God's righthand angel named Lucifer , but he went bad and God promoted another angel to take his place and throw him to hell .

You see, this is completely fallacious reasoning.

A Satan-like figure has been a staple of many different religions, including polytheistic ones (Loki, Hades, etc). So, just because the beast would call itself Satan, that's not necessarily true (trickster, father of lies, etc).

Even if that were true, the Bible is your only source, and you cannot trace authorship of that particular book. The bible could well be written by Satan to promote religious intolereance and illogical thought.

Proving Satan does not prove God, it only proves Satan. Technically, you could only prove a diabolical force for evil...there simply isn't the information available to prove that particular entity is the Biblical Satan alone, and nothing else.

Your argument is similar to trying to say that Russia proves the kids that made up Red Dawn, because Russia was the bad guy in that movie. Just because one part is based on reality, does not mean the rest is. The Bible is made up of multiple stories and myths, proving one does not prove all (although it might lend more weight to certain related parts).

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by jambo372
Proof of Satan would prove existence of God - Satan is a figure in Christian , Jewish and Islamic religions which all put emphasis on God . It is actually thought that Satan was once God's righthand angel named Lucifer , but he went bad and God promoted another angel to take his place and throw him to hell . Not at all. If Satan and only Satan existed, then the Bible would be full of lies. So proof of Satan would certainly not prove God, at least not that way.

Hans

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by jambo372
Proof of Satan would prove existence of God - Satan is a figure in Christian , Jewish and Islamic religions which all put emphasis on God . It is actually thought that Satan was once God's righthand angel named Lucifer , but he went bad and God promoted another angel to take his place and throw him to hell .
No, proof of Satan would prove the existence of Satan. Satan is a figure in Judeo-Christian theology, true, but proving one part of it true does not bring everything else along with it. Perhaps Satan is real, early religious founders realised this, and invented God to comfort themselves.

ETA.. well, looks like this one got handled fairly emphatically. :D

[Quinn]

And even if you proved the existence of the being known as Satan, how would you prove that he was really the father of lies, and not just a really good cold reader?

(And to belatedly answer the original question, for what little relevance it may have: Yes, I have had people think I was psychic after doing some cold reading on them. And I'm not even very good at it. Nonetheless, I was still able to describe not only their thoughts and feelings, but also specific events from their past that I had no way of knowing about.)

[Hellbound]

P.S.-The name Lucifer is mentioned only in Isaiah, chapter 14, and only in the KJV, AMP, NKJV, KJ21, DARBY, and MSG(see below-different reference). And, if you read the chapter, the author is talking of the captivity of the Isrealites by the Babylonians and/or Assyrians. IN context, the description is of the leader/ruler of those keeping Isreal in bondage, not about an angel fallen from heaven. It's one of the biggest mistakes made by many Xians, who assume the whole story is there in black and white.

That's primarily Catholic Church dogma and popularized by the story "Paradise Lost" by Milton. The Bible does not even hint at that conenction. No where else is Satan referred to as Lucifer; neither is that the reference here. The MSG uses the term in Revalations, to describe the depth/length of a fall ("A Lucifer fall"), but this applies to the textual definition of a king as easily as any other. In addition, the MSG does not use Lucifer in Isaiah. In fact, no where else in any version of the Bible is the name "Lucifer" used to refer to Satan, or to anyone else for that matter.

Now, perhaps someone more familiar with the original Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic could clarify the issue, but with such skimpy sources I place very little weight on that theory, even if one assumes the Bible as an accurate source.

[Skep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.

And let's see...the father of the father of lies would be god, right. Therefore all real psychics get their power from god.

Plus, since cold reading is using logic, which comes from the devil, fake psychics get their power from Satan. Or am I mixed up?

I'm not sure, 1inChrist, why you differentiate between God and Satan. If god is all powerful then Satan is subject to gods will, thus any thing Satan does is with the approval of god (since god is all knowing).

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Skep
And let's see...the father of the father of lies would be god, right. Therefore all real psychics get their power from god.

Plus, since cold reading is using logic, which comes from the devil, fake psychics get their power from Satan. Or am I mixed up?

I'm not sure, 1inChrist, why you differentiate between God and Satan. If god is all powerful then Satan is subject to gods will, thus any thing Satan does is with the approval of god (since god is all knowing).
Far too logical. You'll burn for sure.

[Ashles]

Could we also imply that proving the existence of Ford Anglia cars proves the existence of Harry Potter?

Does proving the existence of Russia or China prove the existence of Jack Ryan?

Oh, and no-one actually has proved the existence of Satan so, again, this is all a little hypothetical.


Actually I've just remembered the book Childhood's End. That basically deals with beings being encountered who are the basis for the Devil, but they don't prove God's existence as they turn out to be rather benign aliens, and actually disprove all religious events themselves (as far as I can remember - it was a long time ago that I read it).
So maybe Satan's an alien.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Ashles
Could we also imply that proving the existence of Ford Anglia cars proves the existence of Harry Potter?
No, but proving the existence of the Prefect would prove Zaphod Beeblebrox.

Does proving the existence of Russia or China prove the existence of Jack Ryan?
Like it's just so easy to prove the existence of Russia or China?

So maybe Satan's an alien.
But now, if we prove Satan, and he's an alien, don't we prove Ewoks, too?

[Hellbound]

Nah, if we prove aliens we prove government conspiracies.

Don't you know anything?

Sheesh!

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Huntsman
Nah, if we prove aliens we prove government conspiracies.

Don't you know anything?

Sheesh!
I concede. Obviously your powers of logic are far superior. I could never have made this connection. Verily, our Dark Lord favours you highly.

[Anders]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Nonsense.
Ah, but you are wrong, Satan is the lord, praise the hoofed master of Hell.....muhahahahahahaaaaaa.

Or, whatever....

Man, to be 34 years old I'm kinda childish.... :o

[billydkid]

Another imbecile

[Aussie Thinker]

Cmon Guys (and Gals),

Are we SOOO starved of a “believer� that we jump all over poor ‘ol 1inChrist…

You can clearly tell the guy is not playing with a full deck.. He is a fundamental loon and NO amount of logic, pointing out inconsistency and contradiction, facts and science will sway him ONE IOTA towards the truth.

BTW I sorta understand it.. has anyone noticed how QUICKLY any believers here are squashed with logic and reason ??? Does the simple fact our arguments are so simple so logical and so DEVESTATING to believers convince them of ANYTHING ???.. NOOO…

I long for a believer with sense.. but then KNOWING that what they believe is likely to be a load of CRAP that is highly unlikely !


1inChrist..

Head back to “theology on line� or “rapture ready� where several other loons will actually support you… you are just practising the “sin� of masochism here being made to look completely foolish !

[Skep]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
Cmon Guys (and Gals),

Are we SOOO starved of a “believer� that we jump all over poor ‘ol 1inChrist

Um, yes.

If it weren't for the excellent efforts of 1inChrist we might have to pay someone to come in and stir up the pot.

[Aussie Thinker]

Skep,

Trouble is he is SOOO bad at it.. it hardly seem worth the bother of responding.

You can actually get some really “good� arguments over at www.theologyonline.com .. people who even though they are wrong at least have IQ’s over 47 and some reasonable lines of argument.

[Kitty Chan]

The following is a shameless bump on my part, I notice 1 in Christ you are around but may have missed my post and I have the cats curiousity now on your take on this (which was posted earlier on this thread)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
1 in Christ

If you think about the last post confessing to their friend that it was a lie and the friend still not believing him that should explain a whole lot to you. Not to mention many have spoken about how they did cold readings and faked it.

Like it was said some people can "size up" another quicker than others, tied in with the one being sized desire for this to be true and it can be powerful combination.

If its for entertainment and everyone laughs says wow and thats the end of it great! lots of fun.

But what everyone objects to is when these guys use their talents at reading to control and amaze others. And are not thinking of what may be best for the others and how to help them but only what money and continued control for more money they can rake out of them.

To be accurate thats evil, actual evil, using others personally to gain for yourself, and to continue to use them even if you are hurting them. If ya wanna get real accurate from a christian view a physic is using their God given ablity to be able to be sensitive to others needs and help them and choosing instead to go opposite and hurt them instead for their own needs.

If anyone wanted an example (non Hollywood) of what the devil would be up to this would be it. Much more subtle than most think. Not as dramatic as puking pea soup but movies are generally more dramatic than life.

[Aussie Thinker]

Skep,

Trouble is he is SOOO bad at it.. it hardly seem worth the bother of responding.

You can actually get some really “good� arguments over at www.theologyonline.com .. people who even though they are wrong at least have IQ’s over 47 and some reasonable lines of argument.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
The following is a shameless bump on my part, I notice 1 in Christ you are around but may have missed my post and I have the cats curiousity now on your take on this (which was posted earlier on this thread)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some may use cold reading but the real one's get their powers from the father of lies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan.

[Skep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan.

What actual proof do you have that you are not Satan? Afteral, we know from the Bible that God talks to Satan. (They even have friendly, sadistic bets together (ask Job about it.)) So, I think the fact that God talks to you proves you are Satan. Care to bet?

[Kitty Chan]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan.

Ok very cat like Im going on the limb here.

There is no scientific evidence or James is out a mil so we wont go there.

Im happy you do acknowledge there is fakes in cold reading.

Now the last part is a total interest for me, the REAL ones that are not faking. My jury is totally out on this one awaiting evidence of some kind. In the meantime;

I give you an example of David Blaine, my office worker was creeped out by his levitation, that he was in cahouts with the devil. For a bit I too was creeped then thought about it, that it was part of a magicians act and therefore subject to a trick.

David Blaine is very talented and a different performer but he is not floating around it is an illusion and a good one.

If a cold reader or a magician for that matter uses their tricks to abuse people then that is evil like I said before. This is the mediumship you were speaking of. Evil is subtle thats why it gets away with it. The image of a red hoofed fellow prancing about is smoke and mirrors.

Have you watched the Devils Advocate with Al Pachino? There is a really good description of what I mean. And Im refering to the acting and script not the special hollywood effects bits. If you perfer try reading the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis.

As for the REAL cold reader, actual magic, Randi has been looking for it for years. Tricks to occupy people thats all. Read Lewis if you want to know what the devil is up to.

[steenkh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan.
Show us a REAL psychic, and THEN we will decide whether he/she get the power from the father of lies.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan.

So then it goes without saying that you believe in witches. Correct?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Aha! All the proof you need, right here.

As established in this thread:

If psychics are real, Satan is real.
If Satan is real, aliens are real.
If aliens are real, government conspiracies are real.

Now, think of the implications. If government conspiracies are real, America's Founding Fathers laid a seekrit plan running behind the scenes all these years, culminating in the 9/11 attacks, which they knew we would need to launch a war in the Middle East to bring about Armageddon.

Now, how could they have known there would be the WTC so many years in the future? They were psychic!

Therefore, Satan, aliens, and government conspiracies are real.

[Hellbound]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Aha! All the proof you need, right here.

As established in this thread:

If psychics are real, Satan is real.
If Satan is real, aliens are real.
If aliens are real, government conspiracies are real.

Now, think of the implications. If government conspiracies are real, America's Founding Fathers laid a seekrit plan running behind the scenes all these years, culminating in the 9/11 attacks, which they knew we would need to launch a war in the Middle East to bring about Armageddon.

Now, how could they have known there would be the WTC so many years in the future? They were psychic!

Therefore, Satan, aliens, and government conspiracies are real.

BRILLIANT!!!

You've broken the code!!! Better hurry up and move into the wilderness...far away from electricity. They'll be looking for you now...you know they watch you through your TV...

[uruk]

.......who get their power from the father of lies...

And who is the father of the father of lies? Does that make him the grandfather of lies? The only reason why satan is around is because god lets him around. What does that say about god?

[joyrex]

Why do you keep responding.. you think there's a hope for making him better? :D

[Skep]

Originally posted by joyrex
Why do you keep responding.. you think there's a hope for making him better? :D

Well, isn't that like asking why should people play tennis? After all, the ball keeps coming back?

[joyrex]

Originally posted by Skep
Well, isn't that like asking why should people play tennis? After all, the ball keeps coming back? I will answer in this way. I don't question sports in such manner, it's a way to make people progress in many levels and there's lot to learn about it. It's directly associated the the latest advances in science and its applications.

[Skep]

Originally posted by joyrex
I will answer in this way. I don't question sports in such manner, it's a way to make people progress in many levels and there's lot to learn about it. It's directly associated the the latest advances in science and its applications.

Hmm, perhaps too literal for me. I merely meant that there is some sport in this banter, even if it goes nowhere.

[Kopji]

It is difficult to take 1inchrist seriously because he seems so unreal: Only a fictional monster we might meet hiding under our bed. We wonder: Could there really be such people walking about in the world?

Unfortunately we see every day that there are. We call them 'martyrs', or 'freedom fighters' or 'terrorists' depending upon how much or little we agree with their cause.

How simple and innocent sounding, to teach that some people are minions of Satan. There is nothing to debate with such a missionary. They come and go on the winds of hate and are of the same mindset as those who cheerfully blow up children on school busses.

[Ceinwyn]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Listen. I am sure there are people who do use cold reading. However, I believe that there are also REAL psychics who get their power from the father of lies. Now, I base this not on scientific evidence (ok so don't ask me for some) but the Word. The Word warns that mediumship is the work of Satan. 1inChrist, you are absolutely right.

Satan is everywhere. He knows what we do, what we think.

I suggest you stop posting at once. He knows, and he takes advantage.

Yes, shutting up would be the best advice. Don't tell anyone about this either.

[Operaider]

[Why do you keep responding.. you think there's a hope for making him better? Probably not, But we wouldn't be good Christians if we didn't try to save him :halo:

[TheBoyPaj]

Come to think of it, since a computer contains so many logic circuits, I surprised 1inC can bring himself to use such an evil device.

In fact, I may start calling it a "devil box" from now on.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Ok very cat like Im going on the limb here.
David Blaine is very talented and a different performer but he is not floating around it is an illusion and a good one.
As a matter of fact, it is not at all a good illusion and so he has to beef it up by editing the video. This is, of course, the cardinal sin for a magician. Anyone can perform the paranormal through the Magic Of Video Editing. Other magicians must be furious... or should I say "hopping mad", ho ho. For this breach of the magician's code of honour alone, I sympathise with those of my countrymen who threw eggs at him.

1inChrist has inadvertently started an interesting thread. He'll have to pay for that with an extra hair shirt and more flagellation.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
As a matter of fact, it is not at all a good illusion and so he has to beef it up by editing the video. This is, of course, the cardinal sin for a magician. Anyone can perform the paranormal through the Magic Of Video Editing.

The levitation I've seen Blaine do required no video editing.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by BillHoyt
The levitation I've seen Blaine do required no video editing.
He can do a levitation trick without editing, yes. But it can only be seen from one angle. So sometimes he beefs it up for television with editing, to make it look more impressive. Randi mentions this somewhere in his Commentaries.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by BillHoyt
The levitation I've seen Blaine do required no video editing. Maybe it is a false memory, but the levitation I recall him doing did. He did the standard no-edit one which has been discussed here before, but then cut to a different view with what was likely a wire harness. What got my attention was that the whole thing was allegedly shot with just one camera--so how did they get multiple views of the same event?

(of course, it could all be false memory and the masked magician I recall)

[Skep]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Maybe it is a false memory, but the levitation I recall him doing did. He did the standard no-edit one which has been discussed here before, but then cut to a different view with what was likely a wire harness. What got my attention was that the whole thing was allegedly shot with just one camera--so how did they get multiple views of the same event?

(of course, it could all be false memory and the masked magician I recall)
I don't remember if they claimed to only use one camera or not, but news programs regularly cheat. Many news interviews are shot with one camera and then edited in with "faked" shots of the host re-asking the question, or very wide shots of a different part of the interview. Some of the big news magazine shows can send a multicamera crew out for an interview, but this is an exception. But my point is that from the point of view of objective reality, all video is selective. Selective about angle, selective about what shots are thrown away, etc.

The line between what is normal (editing in the "re-aks" and the "nods" in interviews) and what is a complete lie (editing in a trick the audience wasn't shown) is not as clear cut as you would hope.

Doing magic on tv (especially if cutaways are used) is like doing ventriloquism on radio. Of course, that didn't stop Edgar Bergen...

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
He can do a levitation trick without editing, yes. But it can only be seen from one angle. So sometimes he beefs it up for television with editing, to make it look more impressive. Randi mentions this somewhere in his Commentaries.

I think you're thinking of this Randi line: "And, in a TV presentation of the item, there is often a good deal of "creative editing" used..." It was in a paragraph explaining the technique Blaine used, but Randi doesn't claim Blaine used the editing.

[Operaider]

Someone please report me if you think this is exposing the trick. I personally don't think it is. Just exposing the editing.

Here is what Blaine did. He did the levitation trick in front of the people on the street. I won't tell how the trick is done, but it is much less impressive than what most of you saw. The trick only allows you to levitate a few inches of the ground. The trick is still impressive to anyone who sees it don’t correctly. They filmed the reaction shots from the audience. Blaine then told them that he would like to show them how a "stage magician" would do it. He was then hooked to wires and he recreated the trick levitating several feet off the ground. That is what they showed. You got the reaction shots from the audience, then the "stage magician levitation" shot from over the shoulder of one of the audience. That way you could see that the same randomly chosen people were still there. Otherwise you might get suspicious that camera tricks had been done, which they had.

Once again if any of you think that I exposed the trick, let me know and I'll delete this. I think the actually trick wasn't exposed just the camera tricks used. I don't know if that counts or not.

[Azrael 5]

I wasnt aware of Blaine giving an explanation like you posted Operaider,never heard that before.He did the Balducci levitation as per any magician would,filmed the crowd reaction;then shot the fake version with actors in same clothes of crowd in original shot(you dont see any faces just shoulders etc.)and edited them together.You may be right,but Ive never heard that anywhere.My post is just what I percieved happened.Id be interested to know the source of your info though.:D

[Operaider]

I found an E - book on the internet written by someone with an apparent grudge against Blaine. He detailed nearly all of his tricks. I don't have it downloaded anymore, but I'll see if I can find it.

[Skep]

Originally posted by Operaider
Someone please report me if you think this is exposing the trick. I personally don't think it is. Just exposing the editing.

Here is what Blaine did. He did the levitation trick in front of the people on the street. I won't tell how the trick is done, but it is much less impressive than what most of you saw. The trick only allows you to levitate a few inches of the ground. The trick is still impressive to anyone who sees it don’t correctly. They filmed the reaction shots from the audience. Blaine then told them that he would like to show them how a "stage magician" would do it. He was then hooked to wires and he recreated the trick levitating several feet off the ground. That is what they showed. You got the reaction shots from the audience, then the "stage magician levitation" shot from over the shoulder of one of the audience. That way you could see that the same randomly chosen people were still there. Otherwise you might get suspicious that camera tricks had been done, which they had.

Once again if any of you think that I exposed the trick, let me know and I'll delete this. I think the actually trick wasn't exposed just the camera tricks used. I don't know if that counts or not.

This sounds more like the "Street Magic Revealed" show on FOX--a show that seemed to have faked some explanations of how tricks were done! (Was this a magician's insider joke?)

In one case, the show purported to show how a street magician interacted with an audience member, touching their wrist watch and cleverly advancing the time on the watch by an hour. The show revealed the magician had a motorized, cable down his wrist which was surreptitiously connected to the audience member's watch stem... Right... Seeing as how this old trick can be done using only your thumb and thumbnail, I have to assume that other parts of this FOX show were also faked.

[Loki]

Dr Adequate,

Yes, psychics get their powers from Loki and not Odin. However they do offer PROOF of Loki which proves Odin.
I have never, under any conditions, given any powers to psychics.

And Odin is a bitter old fool who really needs to get over his "I hate that Jesus dude" tantrum and just accept that theology has moved on since Valhalla was rezoned "Dense Residential" and the developers moved in. Ah, chatting up Nordic lasses in the old "Topless Valkyrie" Bar'n'Grill ... those were the days!

[Kitty Chan]

Dr Adequate et el

I think people dont like him cause he gets under the skin and "spooks" people or hes bad, whichever.

I got sucked into the spooks by my co worker, then did a bunch of surfing as I knew he wasnt floating.

I did find a site which reveals the tricks but I believe its not correct to post it here. If anyone wants to really know it, if its alright I could do the pm thing.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Loki
Dr Adequate,


I have never, under any conditions, given any powers to psychics.

And Odin is a bitter old fool who really needs to get over his "I hate that Jesus dude" tantrum and just accept that theology has moved on since Valhalla was rezoned "Dense Residential" and the developers moved in. Ah, chatting up Nordic lasses in the old "Topless Valkyrie" Bar'n'Grill ... those were the days!

Hail Brother Loki! I give you a toast to the good old days; when gods could be evil and mischievous and reflected the variety of human life.

Not to knock old Yahweh who can be devilishly evil, mischevious, inconsistent, ritualistic, racist, genocidal, homophobic, jealous, infanticidal, warmongering, and sadistically cruel.

Yes, Oh Christians, Behold Your God as witnessed by the Word! It is all in The Book, if you care to read it with an open mind.

BTW, At Halloween I had on a 'monk's costume' with robe and sandals. I did a perfectly angled Balducci (had my wife give thumbs up) and one girl watching (very religious, Roman Catholic) feinted!

Advice -- do your levitations in a robe and sandals just like Jesus the Magus did :)

[Loki]

Hail Thor!,

Can't chat - Sigyn's cooking up some lovely goats head stew, and it's almost ready. If you're not busy next weekend I'm taking the family down to Yggdrasil and you're more than welcome to come. I'm hoping to find the time to trick a few more christians into thinking that this whole "Father/Son/Holy Spirit" trinity thing actually makes some sort of sense. Yes, I know, you'd think they'd have seen through it by now - but it's the best damn edit I ever made to the Bible. It's surprising just how gullable humans can be really - hell, even I don't know what I was getting at when I added all that 'holy spirit' nonsense!

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Loki
I'm hoping to find the time to trick a few more christians into thinking that this whole "Father/Son/Holy Spirit" trinity thing actually makes some sort of sense. Yes, I know, you'd think they'd have seen through it by now - but it's the best damn edit I ever made to the Bible.
It's not in the Bible. Anywhere. "Trinity"? Not known at this address. It was invented by theologians with too much time on their hands. I vaguely recall hearing that the guy who thought it up went on to think up some idea the Church thought was heretical, and died excommunicate, but they kept the bit about the Trinity 'cos they liked it. This may be an Urban Legend, though --- I can't give you a source. Anyone?

[Ashles]

Trinity? I thought he was a guy?

But I hear most guys do.

[Loki]

Dr Adequate,

It's not in the Bible. Anywhere. "Trinity"? Not known at this address.
You're being far too literal doc ... Jez, I had to be at least a little subtle. A bit of "one god" here, a hint of "father/son" there, an occasional dash of "holy spirit" (I was originally planning on inserting 'Holy Duck', but at the last minute decided to go for 'spirit' - sounds more believable, don't you think?). Sure, I didn't use the actual word "Trinity" anywhere - but that was simply to lay the groundwork for some nice little inter-denominational interpretation battles (which have turned out rather nicely, even if I do say so myself). Anyway must run - drips of poison to be avoided and all that sort of stuff!

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by The Mighty Thor
...
BTW, At Halloween I had on a 'monk's costume' with robe and sandals. I did a perfectly angled Balducci (had my wife give thumbs up) and one girl watching (very religious, Roman Catholic) feinted!

Advice -- do your levitations in a robe and sandals just like Jesus the Magus did :)

Knowing how this trick was done (at least one variation of it), how on Earth did you ever do it with sandals on? That would have been impressive!

[Azrael 5]

Originally posted by Operaider
I found an E - book on the internet written by someone with an apparent grudge against Blaine. He detailed nearly all of his tricks. I don't have it downloaded anymore, but I'll see if I can find it.
Its unlikely to be true if from an unofficial source.As a amatuer magician myself the version I mentioned is honestly the real version.Paul Daniels was once asked what he thought of Blaine ,he replied "When I see him do a trick from start to finish Ill let you know!"
;)

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Knowing how this trick was done (at least one variation of it), how on Earth did you ever do it with sandals on? That would have been impressive!

Sorry, I missed your post.

If it is Balduccii

The appropriate sandals have an over the toes strap plus back strap that must be tight, It must be well-flexed beforehand. Plus, add some chewed chewing gum at the heel strap and below the heel :) The other sandal is, of course, just 'lifted'.

Try it -- it looks awesome because the true explanation seems impracticable.

It's all about the crucial angles, though.