Questions for Cantata

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
Well of course.

"Finally", might be a better term.

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
1. "quite good" is not competant, and therefore not sufficient.

You may think that, but there are quite a number of reasons why your claim is irrelevant:


She agreed herself to do the test in English.
She is "quite fluent" in English.
She had been attending a school in Brooklyn for years, which means she can follow the classes.
Randi was told to do the test in English.


Originally posted by Lucianarchy
2. she demonstrated the lack of competance by getting an english word wrong.

"Thoroughbred" is not something you could expect any 10-year old to understand. However, none of the other English words were a problem.

I note that even you cannot spell "competent"....

Thanks for your replies, though. Your claim has been refuted.

Shall we take the next one?

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by CFLarsen



Shall we take the next one?

As Natalia is Russian and her native language is Russian, then it is not sufficient to limit responses to be only in English, particularly since the test was video taped for review afterwards.

You seem to miss this point, Claus. There is no rational reason to demand a 10 year old Russian girl should only speak in English in this video'd test. None what so ever.

You also failed to answer the question which you took as a "claim", despite my fairness and cooperation in answering your question. :rolleyes:

Now, are you going to answer the question you raised as a "claim"? Or are you going to prove your self dishonourable against the standards you set for yourself?

Is it correct that Randi prepared control goggles which he put on the girl and she passed?

Is it correct that after she passed his control that he plastered the childs face with duct tape?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
As Natalia is Russian and her native language is Russian, then it is not sufficient to limit responses to be only in English, particularly since the test was video taped for review afterwards.



This is not correct.

"I was told that she could read The New York Times easily, at a regular reading rate, when her eyes were completely covered and sight was thus prevented."

and:

"I told her — and this was understood in advance, before I even went to New York to conduct the test — that English would be used when necessary. With my agreement, they spoke Russian all through the preceding procedure described above, since Mark was a little unsure of his use of English."

Nobody said anything about only English being used. Quite the opposite.

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
You seem to miss this point, Claus. There is no rational reason to demand a 10 year old Russian girl should only speak in English in this video'd test. None what so ever.

Nobody demanded that Lulova should only speak in English. She offered herself to do it in English.

The point is moot.

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
You also failed to answer the question which you took as a "claim", despite my fairness and cooperation in answering your question. :rolleyes:

Now, are you going to answer the question you raised as a "claim"? Or are you going to prove your self dishonourable against the standards you set for yourself?

Not dishonourable at all. I have showed that you were wrong.

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
Is it correct that Randi prepared control goggles which he put on the girl and she passed?

No, she did not "pass".

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
That is correct.Is it correct that after she passed his control that he plastered the childs face with duct tape?

Here's how it went:

"Beginning the second part of the test, when I would have the opportunity to assure myself that Natalia was not using her eyesight for her "second sight," I introduced a set of specially-prepared swim goggles. They were opaqued by a layer of aluminum foil, and very soft sponge rubber ovals were inserted. Swim goggles seal around the eyes, of course, but when I applied them to Natalia, I saw that her small face did not allow such a seal without the goggles being bound on very tightly, because the vinyl rings were designed for adult eye-orbits. When I tightened the retainer, she complained about the pressure, and I relaxed it enough that the oval vinyl rings did not quite close off vision at the sides of her nose. But after I applied tape in those critical areas, Natalia could not see — neither by second sight nor by first. "

So, she did not "pass" the control. Randi discovered that she could still see, and put more duct tape on her face. After which, she could not see anymore.

What do you think that means, Lucianarchy???

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by CFLarsen



No, she did not "pass".



Evidently, you are wrong. Natalia Lulova passed Randi's prepared control goggles.

"Now it was Randi's turn to test. He outfitted Natalia with a pair of swimmer's goggles, the lenses blocked by sponge rubber and aluminum foil, and asked Komissarov again to demonstrate his pupil's talents. After another warmup, and under close scrutiny by Randi, *Natalia was successful once more." Leon Jarof 'Time' Wednesday, Feb. 06, 2002

After that, he told her off for speaking in her language and plastered her face in duct tape. She ended up in tears. Natalia Lulova was ten.

*emphasis to help Claus

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy


OK, so you *cant* say what the scientific tests are that John Edward has turned down.

And you *can't* provide the names of the scientists,

And you *can't* provide JE's reasons for refusing the test.


In response to your question, I, personally, am not "'looking for" anything. Ergo, I did not discover "it", measure "it" or discerned "it" from other phenomena. I am merely letting data speak for itself. Of which, there is currently no known method of action for the "it" effect which has been measured and recorded in many of the parapsychology experiments.

Wait, data? You are letting some sort data do some talking? You are seriously entertaining the notion that John Edward actually talks to dead people? The man should be skewered for exploiting the grief of gullible and vulnerable people. I've only participated in here occassionally and for a relatively short time, but after engaging in and observing a fair number of the debates over the course of the past year or two I find it surprising that there still continues to be anything worth debating in terms of that idiotic notion "paranormal". Randi will NEVER, NEVER pay out that million dollars. That million dollars has NEVER, NEVER been at any risk. This is simply because the "paranormal" is a nonsense concept and there is nothing paranormal. We might as well, in fact, be debating the literal existance of our proverbial invisible pink unicorns. Personally, I have begun to find it tiresome.

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
Evidently, you are wrong. Natalia Lulova passed Randi's prepared control goggles.

"Now it was Randi's turn to test. He outfitted Natalia with a pair of swimmer's goggles, the lenses blocked by sponge rubber and aluminum foil, and asked Komissarov again to demonstrate his pupil's talents. After another warmup, and under close scrutiny by Randi, *Natalia was successful once more." Leon Jarof 'Time' Wednesday, Feb. 06, 2002

After that, he told her off for speaking in her language and plastered her face in duct tape. She ended up in tears. Natalia Lulova was ten.

*emphasis to help Claus Luci you are a credulous idiot. She peeks. Randi stopped her from peeking. Only idiot can't see that.

[CFLarsen]

Lucianarchy,

Please stop ignoring what I write. You have ignored the language issue, and for a very good reason.

She peeked. That's all there is to it.

[Diamond]

Originally posted by billydkid


Wait, data? You are letting some sort data do some talking? You are seriously entertaining the notion that John Edward actually talks to dead people? The man should be skewered for exploiting the grief of gullible and vulnerable people. I've only participated in here occassionally and for a relatively short time, but after engaging in and observing a fair number of the debates over the course of the past year or two I find it surprising that there still continues to be anything worth debating in terms of that idiotic notion "paranormal". Randi will NEVER, NEVER pay out that million dollars. That million dollars has NEVER, NEVER been at any risk. This is simply because the "paranormal" is a nonsense concept and there is nothing paranormal. We might as well, in fact, be debating the literal existance of our proverbial invisible pink unicorns. Personally, I have begun to find it tiresome.

Don't beat about the bush, billy, say what you mean! :D

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
...After that, he told her off for speaking in her language and plastered her face in duct tape. She ended up in tears. Natalia Lulova was ten.
A typical distortion of the facts by a biased reader. She and her mother and lawyer agreed to speak English, in which she was fluent enough to read the NY Times. This was to control for cheating by the Russian speakers who could have told her what the words were. "Plastered her face in duct tape" is a gross exageration. Only two small bits were enough to cover the gap, And the loss of a potential $1 million would cause any hustler of any age to cry.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

Only two small bits were enough to cover the gap

What a load of tripe!

Even Randi's pictures show that her face was 'plastered'!

http://www.randi.org/jr/022202.html

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy


What a load of tripe!

Even Randi's pictures show that her face was 'plastered'!

http://www.randi.org/jr/022202.html

Look at the pictures again. Are you sure you're not plastered?

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
What a load of tripe!

Even Randi's pictures show that her face was 'plastered'!

http://www.randi.org/jr/022202.html Hal, I think we need a new "flogging a dead horse" smiley for use when replying to Lucianarchy.

[TLN]

Luci, she was peeking. End of story.

Since you can't read, just go away.

[michaellee]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy ...After that, he told her off for speaking in her language and plastered her face in duct tape. She ended up in tears. Natalia Lulova was ten.


What evil perpetrated on the lass!

Q. What paranormal feat did this girl claim?
A. To "see" without the use of her eyes, i.e. second sight.

Q. How did Randi test this claim?
A. By golly WOW!- He covered her eyes.

Q. What problem can ANYONE have, including Lucianarchy, with the fact that Randi put duct tape, errr.. plastered duct tape over her eyes to assure she was not using her eyes?
A. Then she couldn't "see" using second sight because of the distraction of tape all over her face.

Recap- I can see without using my eyes.
I can prove it- give me One million dollars.
Just don't test me by not letting me use my eyes.

And Russian or English, duct tape or no duct tape, IT DOESN"T matter! With eyes, she can see. Without eyes, she can't see.
Man, that Randi is cruel....

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey


Look at the pictures again. Are you sure you're not plastered?

Which part of the last picture in the series there would you describe as "two small bits"? :confused:

[Lucianarchy]

:randi:

[RonSceptic]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
She ended up in tears. Natalia Lulova was ten.


What wonderful parents and professional advisors she must have.

She is a fake. They must all have known. They would have known too how rigerous Randi would be in testing her. Yet they still put her through such an ordeal for the sake of trying to scam JREF out of a million dollars?

What charming people Luci sticks up for.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy


Which part of the last picture in the series there would you describe as "two small bits"? :confused:
They are under the blindfold provided by the claimants.

[tracer]

Way, way, WAAAAAY the hell back on page 1 of this thread, I found this:
Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I don't know, what do you call a british lawyer with an IQ of 50? :confused: :confused:
And now, here it is, over a year later, and we still don't know what you call a British lawyer with an IQ of 50!

Closure, man! Closure!

[Sundog]

Originally posted by tracer
Way, way, WAAAAAY the hell back on page 1 of this thread, I found this:

And now, here it is, over a year later, and we still don't know what you call a British lawyer with an IQ of 50!

Closure, man! Closure!

"Your Honor".

Feel better now?

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy


Which part of the last picture in the series there would you describe as "two small bits"? :confused:

Yes, she did have a lot of tape plastered over her eyes. She still can't read blindfolded.