Homeopaths are fast!

[MRC_Hans]

Perhaps paranormally fast. Somebody made a h remedy from positronium (which is a positron and an electron circling each other). I took the liberty to mention that the half-life of positronium is 10 -7 seconds, but Dr Leela assures me that the remedy was prepared within that period. That's pretty cool, I think ;).

Read it here before Stalin's airbrush gets it (http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?p=51270&posted=1#post51270)

:nope:

Hans

[Skep]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Perhaps paranormally fast. Somebody made a h remedy from positronium (which is a positron and an electron circling each other). I took the liberty to mention that the half-life of positronium is 10 -7 seconds, but Dr Leela assures me that the remedy was prepared within that period. That's pretty cool, I think ;).

Read it here before Stalin's airbrush gets it (http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?p=51270&posted=1#post51270)

:nope:

Hans

I think with that short half-life, homeopaths have just created a new line of "instant" serial dilution. Finally, you can have 0 molecules of active ingredient with out the troublesome serial dilution. My real question is if positronium is in the Pharmacopeia?

[CFLarsen]

I can't read it. Save the thread and email it to me, eh? :)

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
I can't read it. Save the thread and email it to me, eh? :) OK, done.

Hans

[thaiboxerken]

As long as the water remembers that there was a positron and an electron, then it can imagine having positronium and then remember that as well. See, you have to teach and train the water, it's is a sentient being.

[Sarah-I]

Dr Leela's assessment of you was right on the mark.

If anyone links to this thread, you will actually see that Hans received a full explanation of exactly how the remedy was collected by the person who potentised this remedy first, Chris Kurz.

[Dr Adequate]

I'm having a little trouble getting on there. Could Sarah please post the "full explanation" on this thread, so we can all have a look? Thanks.

[Skep]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Dr Leela's assessment of you was right on the mark.

If anyone links to this thread, you will actually see that Hans received a full explanation of exactly how the remedy was collected by the person who potentised this remedy first, Chris Kurz.

Yes, the fact that this alleged exchange is protected from the harmful glare of outsiders makes it impossible to confirm--a little like homeopathy...

Once the exchange is publicly posted, I will work up a powerful remedy to the homeopathic claims. Using the principle of like cures like, I will print out the post, then masticate it in a blender with a liter of water. Then, using the powerful principle of infinitesimals, I will dilute the post 100C and place a drop of the powerful antidote to homeopathic credulity on a clean piece of paper and scan it in to my computer. Finally, I’ll post the scan as an attachment and the cure will be complete!

I’m planning a homeopathic book for a later date. It will look an ordinary blank book, but in fact it will be powerfully charged with the memory of another blank book. So, it will be radically powerful. (Remember, since like cures like, I can’t use the Encyclopedia Britannica as an ingredient. It would represent knowledge and higher learning thus it would wipe your brain clean, or, in the case of homeopaths, leave their brains untouched. So I had to use ignorance to cure ignorance, thus I could just as easily used any book on homeopathy as the main ingredient…)

[Lisa Simpson]

I can't read it either. Do they mention what the remedy is supposed to cure or prove?

[MRC_Hans]

Maybe you have to be a member to read it. No Sarah, Leela was totally off. She ridiculously claimed that

The energy was
tapped duing those 10 -7 seconds to prepare the remedy and conduct the
proving.

Which simply shows that she has no idea what she is talking about (and the post by you shows that you haven't a clue, either).

The account of this Chris character at least logically coherent, although the idea that some radiation leaves an imprint on a vial of alcohol is, of course, totally unfounded.

I'm attaching the thread, in .txt format. I have no idea if this is against the rules, if it is, I apologize.

[Timble]

Probably a silly question, but where can you get hold of positronium outside of somewhere like CERN?

And I suspect you could sap away whatever credibility these claims have by pointing out that they're saying that they can harness antimatter:matter interactions - do they have homeopaths in Star Trek?

*EDIT*
Sorry, hadn't read the entire thread.

The explanation is even more nonsensical, since all they did was expose ethanol to the radiation from the annihilations of the electrons and positrons.

Why should zapping ethanol at that energy level and wavelength have any effects from zapping it at anyother wavelenght?..its magic using science as prop.

[Skep]

Beats all your life saving allopathic drugs doesn't it?!
This isn't a discussion or an arguement with you - so I won't be answering
any more sceptical queries/arguements regarding this.
dr. leela

Hans, I'm quite impressed that "Dr." leela can argue with your position, then declare her arguement not to be an argument! And yet, somehow it is you, Hans, who are supposed to be the closedminded one!

From "Dr." leela PS: Sorry Hans - but you've outlived your arguements with us. You'll need
to like it or lump it.

I think that pretty much sums it up. I'm sure they don't want the facts to get in the way of their conclusions. Thank you for posting the thread.

[Rolfe]

Thanks for the text file, Hans.

I know we're laughed at that positronium proving several times before, but it's still reading the actual symptoms that cracks me up. You can't link directly to the page because of the silly way that site uses frames, but if you go here (http://www.hominf.org/posi/posifr.htm) and click on "Materia Medica" you'll get it.Weight
A sense of solidity.
01P 01 17.00 NS

I moved my neck in a circle, it felt thick and as if my head was the same size - like a turtle.
01P 01 17.00 NS

Speech feels slow and deliberate, and very exact in a quiet and weighty way.
02P 01 20.40 NS

Mood heavy and drained.
02P 34 22.00 NS

Feeling OK till supper. After supper a tremendous feeling of exhaustion and heaviness. Legs feel like they're buckling under me. I can hardly walk. Head feels slow and heavy. Food in my digestive tract feels like a stone. Can hardly think, eyes falling. Can't feel anything - too exhausted to even drag myself along.
02P 34 XX.XX NS

I've put on weight as I've been eating crap.
04P 99 XX.XX NS

As we continued to sit silently, my hands and legs felt very heavy. There was a feeling of heaviness, but it was not oppressive or like the feeling of heaviness you get before going to sleep. I was holding my hands with my fingers locked together. The heaviness was such that I felt like I could not pull them apart without great effort (it reminded me of a feeling I had once before when I was hypnotized - the process going into the hypnotism where I was unable to separate my hands - here I could if I wanted to).
05P 01 17.00 NS

Heavy feeling in my body, similar to the one I experienced at beginning of proving. There was no feeling of pressure or tension. Noticed it most in my legs.
05P 01 24.00 NS

Don't feel so good today, feel heavier in my body and not ready for the day.
07P 07 09.00 NSIt just goes on and on like that. I wonder why they were so stuck on weight? Most of the "sympathetic magic" dredged up by these things is of similars, like swooping and turning for the falcon. Oh, is it possible they actually thought positronium was heavy?

Dearie me.

Rolfe.

[Skep]

Disclaimer from "Dr." (she has a "doctorate" in homeopathy) leela's website
Homeopathy2Health represents the efforts of David A. Johnson PA, CCH, RSHom (NA) andÂ_ Leela D’Souza-Francisco BHMS, HMD to spread the benefits of homeopathy world-wide. Â_Homeopathic remedies do not produce dangerous side-effects, but during the process of healing it is possible for the physical body to produce temporary nuisance symptoms which are beyond the control of the practitioners. Â_It is always the patient's responsibility to contact their regular health care professionals for emergencies.

Basically, it is your fault if you die while being treated by these "professionals." What gumption.

[Rolfe]

PS: Sorry Hans - but you've outlived your arguements with us. You'll need to like it or lump it.Leela chased me away in much the same words. I kept asking her what would happen if someone entering an Addisonian crisis consulted a homoeopath. However, she repeatedly asserted that all the patients she sees have already been fully worked up by real doctors and are on any medication they need. And refused to be drawn on what would happen if such a patient consulted one of the "see a homoeopath first" brigade. (Well, for what happened when that question finally got an answer, see my sig and its link.)

So if Leela is saying that homoeopathy is a substitute for real medicine, she's lying in her teeth.

Rolfe.

[Sarah-I]

Dr Leela is a real doctor first of all and yes, homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine. This is where the correct choice of potency comes in.

[Rolfe]

Get your facts right Sarah. Leela is not a medical doctor, she only has a homoeopathic dipoma.

And you know about the million dollars. Proving that people who took homoeopathic remedies could statistically significantly reduce the necessary dose of their normal medication (which is what Leela claims) would be another perfectly acceptable way of winning the money.

Funny nobody appears to want it.

Sarah, call yourself what you like, your style never changes. Just come in and make a completely fanciful, totally unsupported statement, and expect to be believed.

Not a chance. Let's have your evidence.

Not holding my breath.

Rolfe.

[asthmatic camel]

Rolfe, once again I am indebted to you; I spent a few moments wondering if Sarah's post was intended to be ironical.

It's a pity she's serious, it would have been amusing otherwise.
;)

[Skep]

"To give Rolfe his due, I think this is a good example to everyone of what can happen if we fail to get a proper diagnosis and begin treating on symptoms alone--a big mistake, as shown here."
- "Snoopy" on H'pathy Forums, apparently abjuring the very fundamentals of homoeopathy after she'd just allowed a young mother with Addison's disease to die. (Hypothetically, this time - next time, who knows?)

Rolfe,
I must thank you for the link. The thread was amusing and a little scary, and, of course, locked down.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Skep
The thread was amusing and a little scary, and, of course, locked down. But, unlike many, not actually deleted. (If they did delete it, I'd have to go to all the trouble of uploading saved copies and changing the link, what a bore.)

Oh, I forgot to mention - if you've read that thread, you might like to know that Naturalhealth is Sarah (and Corallinus and Homeoskeptic too).

Rolfe.

[Skep]

Originally posted by Rolfe
But, unlike many, not actually deleted. (If they did delete it, I'd have to go to all the trouble of uploading saved copies and changing the link, what a bore.)

Oh, I forgot to mention - if you've read that thread, you might like to know that Naturalhealth is Sarah (and Corallinus and Homeoskeptic too).

Rolfe.

Is Sarah the same as Sarah-l, too? Seeing as Sarah-l couldn't be bothered to check leela's website to find that leela is not a medical doctor, nor does she have a doctorate in a legitimate field. (Not that I would give medical doctors a pass, either, but at least they are entitled to use the honorific "Dr." without being wholly misleading.) If doctoral students in homoeopathy did real research for their doctoral theses, the students would eventually disprove their own field. That this has not happened suggests to me that the academic rigors of homeopathy are neither academic nor rigorous.


Like bible touters, homeopaths pick and choose what parts of real Hahnemannian homeopathy to defend and which to gloss over seemingly at random. It is the uncritical, dogmatic devotion which is most troubling to me.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Dr Leela is a real doctor first of all and yes, homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine. This is where the correct choice of potency comes in.

you remind me of the song Idiot Wind (http://bobdylan.com/songs/idiot.html).

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Dr Leela is a real doctor first of all and yes, homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine. I have done a lot of work in this area and can confirm Sarah’s analysis.

Homeopathic medicine on it’s own produces results no better than a placebo.

However when you combine the homeopathic medicine with conventional medicine the results are very impressive. They are so impressive that they match exactly the results you get when conventional medicine is used on its own.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Skep
Is Sarah the same as Sarah-l, too?Sorry, just shorthanding. I meant Sarah-l.

Rolfe.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Dr Leela is a real doctor first of all
Unless she has been awarded a doctorate by an accredited institution, she has no more right to call herself Doctor than any other con artist. You have no idea how much this annoys those of us who have bothered to get a real education and real qualifications, instead of taking a short course in how to swindle people.
and yes, homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine.
:dl:
I think that you will also find that standing on one leg and whistling The Star Spangled Banner also "works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine" --- in the sense that the patient will probably recover. This is because conventional medicine works extremely well all by itself, without the addition of a unipedal rendition of the American National Anthem. Or worthless magic water.

These people sicken me, getting fat off other people's misery and giving them nothing but lies for their money.

[Yaotl]

That's just horrible. Sometimes the internet scares the crap out of me.

[Ashles]

Bending spoons with your mind works excellently in conjunction with bending them with your hands.

Telekinetic ability works excellently in conjunction with threads or magnets.

Casting an evil spell on someone works excellently in conjunction with shooting them in the head.

Stupidity works excellently in conjunction with ignorance.

[Yaotl]

I'm relatively new to this, so I need to ask a question. What exactly is "proving" in this context?

[geni]

Originally posted by Yaotl
I'm relatively new to this, so I need to ask a question. What exactly is "proving" in this context?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_proving

[Yaotl]

Originally posted by geni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_proving

Yeesh, I was afraid it was that simple. Thanks.

There are some interesting provings on that website with the positronium one.

[Marquis de Carabas]

In this case, proof is a statement of what proof alcohol you would have to drink a gallon of to remotely entertain the possibility that the claim is true. I believe most homeopathic claims are 200 proof.

[joobie]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Dr Leela is a real doctor first of all

i am a 'real doctor' as well. the degree cost me $15.

[Ashles]

I'm interested in this quote:
A person sensitive to a homeopathic remedy (similimum or not) feels this its action at the instant it touches his tongue or any other sensitive part of his anatomy - for some even before it does.
So it can work without even coming into contact with you? These people are lucky. They'd never have to buy another bottle.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Ashles
I'm interested in this quote:

So it can work without even coming into contact with you? These people are lucky. They'd never have to buy another bottle.
I've only purchased one homeopathic remedy in my life. Once I ran out, I saved the bottle. Since the bottle was in contact with the remedy for so long, the plastic remembers how to cure my ills. So I just lick the bottle every couple of days to immunize myself to everything. I feel great!

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Ashles
So it can work without even coming into contact with you? These people are lucky. They'd never have to buy another bottle. Oh yes! Take a look at this lot (http://vetlab.co.uk/voodoo/milgrom1.pdf) (page 245, under "Action at a distance").Anecdotal reports exist of patients reporting improvement in their symptoms before they have received the potentised medicine.<SUP>24</SUP> When patients began to feel better, this has been claimed to coincide with the moment the practitioner had ‘understood’ the case and decided on the appropriate medicine (ie, the ‘moment’ of PPR entanglement). There are also reports (again, anecdotal) of homeopaths ‘prescribing’ by writing down the name of a medicine and placing over it a glass of water.<SUP>25</SUP> The patient drinking the water has been reported to lead to their symptoms improving.And if you believe this, I've got a nice bridge to sell you....

Rolfe.

[Skep]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
I've only purchased one homeopathic remedy in my life. Once I ran out, I saved the bottle. Since the bottle was in contact with the remedy for so long, the plastic remembers how to cure my ills. So I just lick the bottle every couple of days to immunize myself to everything. I feel great!

You are really wasting a lot of money buying that first bottle! I just go for a walk by my neighborhood homeopath. Since it isn't needed to actually come into contact with the remedy, I get an even more dilute, and thus more powerful, dose!

Hmmm, come to think of it, I'm not sure why I even need to leave my house. I can get an even more dilute dose right here at home!

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Skep
You are really wasting a lot of money buying that first bottle! I just go for a walk by my neighborhood homeopath. Since it isn't needed to actually come into contact with the remedy, I get an even more dilute, and thus more powerful, dose!

Hmmm, come to think of it, I'm not sure why I even need to leave my house. I can get an even more dilute dose right here at home!
Ah, apparently your local homeopath is not as legal-savvy as mine. I used to just walk in the shop and take in the goodness, until he had me arrested for stealing. I had to buy that bottle.

[Skep]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Oh yes! Take a look at this lot (http://vetlab.co.uk/voodoo/milgrom1.pdf) (page 245, under "Action at a distance").And if you believe this, I've got a nice bridge to sell you....

Rolfe.

Is it a homeopathic bridge? I hope it is, because I only have room for a homeopathic bridge. Maybe 10X…


Say, I have a question. Since "Dr." leela's website notes that homeopathic remedies have no side effects, why does one need a homeopathic doctor? It would seem that it would be simple to make a homeopathic Super Pill that contains all homeopathic remedies at once. It's not like they all wouldn't fit... Imagine how healthy that would make me! I'd be invincible, or at least unbearable, or something...

[Skep]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Ah, apparently your local homeopath is not as legal-savvy as mine. I used to just walk in the shop and take in the goodness, until he had me arrested for stealing. I had to buy that bottle.

I managed to convince a judge that the law of infinitesimals should apply to payments to homeopaths. $100 at 100C. That doctor should consider himself really rich now!

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Skep
Say, I have a question. Since "Dr." leela's website notes that homeopathic remedies have no side effects, why does one need a homeopathic doctor?To come down to earth for a minute, this only applies because of a redefinition of the English language. Homoeopathic remedies can do all sorts of unpleasant things to you! Just go look at the homoeopaths' bulletin boards for a sample of all the horrible things people have experienced after taking a remedy, and of course as everything that happens after taking a remedy is defined as being caused by the remedy, then obviously the remedy caused these effects.

But you simply relabel them as "aggravations", or call it a "healing crisis", or at the worst, the patient is "proving" the remedy. Not side-effects, dearie me no. Of course these are also unpleasant and unwanted consequences of taking the remedy, but they're not side-effects because the homoeopathic lexicon has defined "side effects" as something only allopathic medicine causes, never homoeopathic.

Humpty Dumpty land rules, OK.

Rolfe.

[Kiwi Kid]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Oh yes! Take a look at this lot (http://vetlab.co.uk/voodoo/milgrom1.pdf) (page 245, under "Action at a distance").And if you believe this, I've got a nice bridge to sell you....

Rolfe. Thank you, thank you! That is the most amazing piece of pseudoscience I have seen for some time. And the effort put in to formatting the "paper" is impressive. Faculty of Homeopathy? Patient-practitioner-remedy non-local entanglement? I laughed and laughed until I stopped.

Simon.