Justifying the eternal Hellfire.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
GM, if you and I ever meet I'm gonna buy you a beer for that post. Well said and a hearty "Here! Here!" I agree Dragonrock.

If you can arrange a meeting I'll be there. If you can spring for another beer, (even the cheap kind), I'll buy tacos.

Nice post GM. I hope you are sizing this up right. I didn't know any of 1inC's history before this thread.

I think hell based Christianity is a tough sell in a rich society. It's more easily done on the loving blessing side of the equation. The harshness of the desert god works well on any group already suffering perceived punishment. I think that may be a bit counter intuitive but I've come to believe it. For instance, if you exist in the shadow of a threatening bully or dictator, a vengeful god is your friend. He's going to make that SOB pay.

In a rich society, you make actually feel guilty you have so much when others don't. Being thankful to the god of all blessings assuages any guilt.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
GM, if you and I ever meet I'm gonna buy you a beer for that post. Well said and a hearty "Here! Here!"

Make that two!

I hope 1nC realizes this is the Atheist version of " I'll pray for you .."

I hope he reads Job a few times with an open mind and realizes it's not about a devoted servant, it's about a cruel master..


Would he treat his daughter the way God treated Job just to see if she really loves him?

[The GM]

Originally posted by Atlas
I agree Dragonrock.

If you can arrange a meeting I'll be there. If you can spring for another beer, (even the cheap kind), I'll buy tacos.

Nice post GM. I hope you are sizing this up right. I didn't know any of 1inC's history before this thread.


Tacos are good, but alas, w/ DR in Dallas, me in Des Moines, and you holding the weight of the world on your shoulders, it could be a tough meet.

The post was just a thought that occured to me after following 1inC's posts for awhile. I freely admit I could be full of $#!+ on his specifics, but guaranteed, this is what some Xians go through. It ain't pretty, and it ain't funny. Support and a kind ear is what they need, ya know?

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by The GM
The post was just a thought that occured to me after following 1inC's posts for awhile. I freely admit I could be full of $#!+ on his specifics, but guaranteed, this is what some Xians go through. It ain't pretty, and it ain't funny. Support and a kind ear is what they need, ya know?

However you meant it and where ever you got your info from, I just nominated you for a language award.

Read about the language award here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45447) in case you haven't heard of it.

[The GM]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
However you meant it and where ever you got your info from, I just nominated you for a language award.

Read about the language award here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45447) in case you haven't heard of it.

Aw, shucks.
He talked about his daughters during his first week here. I just observed and offered commentary based on what he sounds like.

[jimmygun]

I've got news for you 1inchrist...You aren't going to heaven either. You, meaning the individual that makes you you. Maybe your soul gets to go but you will be put aside for a ringer.

Would heaven be glorious and luxurious and everlastingly beautiful if you were aware that ones you loved were burning in a sea of fire? Perhaps god will erase any memory of loved ones so you can't think about them. Perhaps god would merely turn you into a sadistic hater such as himself and that would allow you to survive in the face of others torture. Either way, the you that is here now will not be going there later.

Kinda like going out to all the practices, working and sweating to make the team only to find out that all they want is your jersey so they can put a ringer in your place.

[uruk]

Simple. Yes God knew some of His creations would reject Him and spend eternity in Hell but He also knew that some of His creations would choose to bathe in the Glory of Him. Should He not create us because some of us choose to reject Him? If He decided not to create humans because some would choose evil, that means evil would beat God! If God decides not to do something because of evil that means God has been defeated by evil and that cannot happen. He HAD to create us or evil would of defeated God.
This makes no sense. God created everything right? That means he created evil also. Why would god be afraid of something he created beating him? You have to ask yourself (or your pastor), Why did god create evil? Why is he afraid or concerned about something beating him if nothing can beat him?
Also why doesn't he just create us without the capability to reject him?

God gave us free will. To answer your second question see my first post on why God created us knowing about the Fall of Man.
So god gave us free will. This bring up two issues. First, if god is all knowing then he knows from the time he created us what our actions will be. This means that he knows already that (I for example) will chose to deny his existance and thus burn forever.
Thus he created me knowing full well that I would choose to deny him. Why did he create me then? Surely not because he's worried about getting beaten by evil. He's all powerfull. He created evil He cannot be beaten by evil or anything he created.

Then there's the issue of free will. How free is it if we get destroyed or punished for not choosing correctly? That's like saying "you've got two choices, either take the bridge to get to the other side of the canyon or jump off the cliff and die on the jagged rocks below". How free is that choice? A truly free choice would one without bad consequences. "Either take bridge 'A' or bridge 'B', doesn't matter they both go to the other side." In this choice, there is no coersion.

The second issue is; if god does not know what our choice will be then he is not all knowing. All god knows is that some will choose him , others will not. He does not know what the individual choices will be. He will also be not be all powerful, or at least choose not to use his power to alter our choices. But even so, god is still allowing some of his creations to suffer for eternity because he is forcing a choice on us. It's our choice, but he is only providing us with just two selections, one of which will cause to suffer for eternity.

That's the way it is and if you don't like it TOUGH! You don't write the rules, God does. So that's the answer? If god does things that we consider evil and bad it's ok for him because he's god. "Do what I say, not what I do." "It's my creation! I'll do whatever I want with it!" When we act this way, we call it being hypocritical and childish. Why is god holding us to a higher standard of behaiviour than he holds himself to? He can kill, destroy, torture whatever, whomever, whenever he wants but when we do it it's called a sin? Why does he want us to behave better than he does?


God does not kill or torture anyone except if they have it coming due to consequences of their actions.

So lets see, If I am good and caring, commit no crimes, give to charity, do no harm to others, sacrifice for others, take no drugs or alcohol, or tobacoo, help others in my community, but I do not go to church; god will torture me forever. I guess I had it coming to me. I missed just one of those ten commandments; but it was a doozie! Clearly, my actions were deserving of eternal damnation!
Now if a person does drugs, abuse women and children, lies, cheats, steals, murders and comitts abortions, worships satan, practices witchcraft, defiles churches, preaches against god, deny his existance but at the last moment truly and sincerely repents and accepts god; he gets to go past the pearly gates into heaven. Truely this man was good and godly and deserving of the eternal fruits and glory of god's grace. Don't you see something wrong with this picture?

Gotta go for lunch. I'll be back to finnish

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by uruk
So lets see, If I am good and caring, commit no crimes, give to charity, do no harm to others, sacrifice for others, take no drugs or alcohol, or tobacoo, help others in my community, but I do not go to church; god will torture me forever. I guess I had it coming to me. I missed just one of those ten commandments; but it was a doozie! Clearly, my actions were deserving of eternal damnation!
Now if a person does drugs, abuse women and children, lies, cheats, steals, murders and comitts abortions, worships satan, practices witchcraft, defiles churches, preaches against god, deny his existance but at the last moment truly and sincerely repents and accepts god; he gets to go past the pearly gates into heaven. Truely this man was good and godly and deserving of the eternal fruits and glory of god's grace. Don't you see something wrong with this picture?

I already asked this question, then Upchurch called me a doodie head for it.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
I already asked this question, then Upchurch called me a doodie head for it. Did I? Sorry. Hopefully, I was only joking.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
I already asked this question, then Upchurch called me a doodie head for it. When Upchurch allegedly offered this observation did he mean it to be complimentary as in "you are showing improvement"? :p Or did you jump to another conclusion. :D

Go easy on Upchurch. It sounds like he's getting old and forgetful.

[/DonRickles]

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by uruk
Gotta go for lunch. I'll be back to finnish

Are you going to have a danish?

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Did I? Sorry. Hopefully, I was only joking.

No, you didn't. My "Hitler" post made this same point, you just took me to task for mentioning Hitler.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Piscivore
Are you going to have a danish? I thought of that before you did, and decided not to post.. I decided it wasn't that funny, but I'm not about to let you have the credit if it is..

[uruk]

I already asked this question, then Upchurch called me a doodie head for it.
Well, I asked the question to illustrate the idea that 1inChrist's god seems more concerned about getting worshipped than the content and intentions of our and actions. We won't get punished for our actions just so long as we repent and say we're sorry. Too bad this doesn't work in our legal system.
Seemed like a legitement question to me.


Are you going to have a danish?
I don't know, the baptised christian child I ate for lunch could have been Dutch or Norwagian or Scandinavian. I didn't ask.:p

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by uruk
Well, I asked the question to illustrate the idea that 1inChrist's god seems more concerned about getting worshipped than the content and intentions of our and actions. We won't get punished for our actions just so long as we repent and say we're sorry. Too bad this doesn't work in our legal system.
Seemed like a legitement question to me.

Me too, only I said that according to his logic (illogic?), Anne Frank and Hitler both deserved the same punishment. That didn't seem particularly "good" to me, in fact, I thought it was down right selfish and evil.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Anders
Saved from what? I don't follow his or any others command! In fact I try to blasphemy as often as I can, and I still haven’t experienced any wrath from Yaweh or Ganesha (I kinda like Ganesha, he has a cute trunk).

I'd like to hook up with that multi-armed blue Shiva chick that "cleaned the pipes" of Chris Elliot in Cabin Boy, turning him into a man.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Anders
when he yells at his daughters (of one is the crow princess) you can sometimes hear him......

Ugh, I'll bet they're ugly!

[uruk]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by uruk
Gotta go for lunch. I'll be back to finnish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Are you going to have a danish?

Duhhhhhhhh! hyuk, hyuk, hyuk
Took a while to drill through my skull, but I just got the joke.
God! I'm slow.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Whyatica
And they both [God and Vader] tend to punish the wrong people :D

Actually, they both use well-known, and very effective tools of manipulation. When you want to stop some people from doing something, you punish not just those who do it, but the random population as well for allowing them to do it.

Modern civilization has a superior morality over God since we have decided that is wrong morally to do.

And we don't allow slaves either.

And we don't execute homosexuals.

And we don't execute witches, either, regardless of the reality or unreality of any supermatural aspects.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
I already asked this question, then Upchurch called me a doodie head for it. When Upchurch allegedly offered this observation did he mean it to be complimentary as in "you are showing improvement"? :p Or did you jump to another conclusion. :D

Go easy on Upchurch. It sounds like he's getting old and forgetful.

[/DonRickles]

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by Atlas
When Upchurch allegedly offered this observation did he mean it to be complimentary as in "you are showing improvement"? :p Or did you jump to another conclusion. :D

Go easy on Upchurch. It sounds like he's getting old and forgetful.

[/DonRickles]

Did you feel this was so important that you ignored my other responces on this subject and posted your question again?

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
Did you feel this was so important that you ignored my other responces on this subject and posted your question again? No, I was being a smarta$$. I wrote it just as upchurch responded and posted it. I walked away from my computer and when I came back there was a message the I had lost my connection to the server. Stupidly, I hit the submit buttom long after any potential humor had drained from the subject and not realizing that the first posting was accepted.

Please accept my apolgies. I did get a chuckle out of the use of doodie head and I let it get the better of me. But I felt like one myself after I realized how much time elapsed and seen your other responses.

[Dragonrock]

Sorry if I came across as a bit harsh, I thought that you thought that I was avoiding your question.

I think...

[uruk]

And now, to finnish (and no I'm not going to anyplace in Northern Europe. chowderheads:p )

Huh!?
I didn't think you would get that one. If god created everything and everything god creates is good; then satan and evil are good because god created them also. (he created the angel that rebeled from him that became satan)
If evil and satan are not of god, then there is something else other than god creating stuff or god is powerless to stop satan and the creation of evil. Or god allows (for some reason) to let satan and evil flourish. And if everything god does is good then letting evil and satan flourish is also good.
Doesn't make sense does it? Well, that is the consequence of your religious leaders are teaching you. That's why they say thinking and using reason is evil. If you think about it long enough youu begin see what a bunch of contradictory nonsense it is.

God knows your eternal fate. Will you go to Heaven? Will you be consumed by the flames of the Hellfire? That choice is up to you.
Well then you believe that god already knows what our individual choice is going to be. which means that when god created me he already knew wether I am going to choose him or burn. In essence the choice has already been made for me; I just don't know yet what it will ultimately be yet. Free will? Where is it?

[Fizzer]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
God created us because He wanted us to praise and love Him. Sadly, the original parents turned away from Him which damned all us to the Hellfire.

Funny, when I read the Bible I learn that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.") and that the soul dies (Ezekial 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.")
Also see Ecclesiates 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. "
How could one be tortured eternally if they are conscious of nothing?

Also interesting to note at Jeremiah 7:31, God condemns those who have burned their children with fire. "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. "
Not only did he not instruct them to do it, but the idea never even came up. But yet that's the same punishment that he will use against non-believers as you claim? Even worse than that, eternal fire at that! Please...

2 Thessalonians shows the punishment is eternal destruction, not eternal torture: "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power "

And Revelations 20:13-14 speaks of those being taken out of hell, and then hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire. Maybe hell isn't what you think it is. " And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. "


He doesn't threaten anyone. He lays out the facts: Follow my commands or go to Hell.

The reward is life. The "punishment" is simply death, no more, no less. Simple as that.

Fizzer

[Atlas]

Originally posted by uruk
... If god created everything and everything god creates is good; then satan and evil are good because god created them also. (he created the angel that rebeled from him that became satan) ... And if everything god does is good then letting evil and satan flourish is also good.
Doesn't make sense does it? ... It sure didn't when I wrote up the idea in a theme back in the late 60s. I was arguing that though we cannot understand it - evil is good and part of God's great plan. Furthermore, Satan was God's good angel of evil. And evil, somehow, in contrast with the good, prods human beings into a closer relationship with God - and Satan's pitchfork is just the prod we obviously need.

I thought I was using good logic and it was a fun theme for me to write - I really hated writing themes.

My teacher would not accept it. She gave me no grade and told me if I wanted a grade I'd have to write a new theme by the next day.

She was a tool of the establishment. But I was not the radical I should have been. I wrote a new one like a good little woos.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Fizzer
... Also see Ecclesiates 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. "
How could one be tortured eternally if they are conscious of nothing?...

2 Thessalonians shows the punishment is eternal destruction, not eternal torture: "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power " ...

The reward is life. The "punishment" is simply death, no more, no less. Simple as that. Good post Fizzer, Welcome to the Forum.(edit: Now that I look again I see you've been around for awhile... but quietly so.) This is what I was getting at in an earlier post. You said it better and with scriptural references.

It seems that the posters on this board are being condemned to everlasting torture mostly because of tradition and Dante.

Now it becomes difficult for Christians to question that interpretation because they and their parents have been taught it, by their ministers, all their lives. To question it means that they must question all their cherished beliefs for their underlying truth.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

I am right now telling you about the Lord and His plan of Salvation. You cannot claim on judgement day that you were never warned.


I think you are satan trying to lead me astray.

Originally posted by 1inChrist

God=Good.


You are using satan's tool of logic, you are satan.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

He doesn't threaten anyone. He lays out the facts: Follow my commands or go to Hell.

Errr - that's a threat,

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=threat)

Threat:
An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment.

[Stitch]

quote:A. There is no such omnipotent being for me to fight.

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes there is.


< pantomimeMode >
Oh no there isn't
< /pantomimeMode >

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Your alternative. (http://www.av1611.org/hell.html)

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
What you're about to read is hard to believe. . .

[Stitch]

1inChrist
[B
God can not do evil
[/B]
So he isn't omnipitent then?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist



:So, is this part wrong?:

"...and God repented of the evil that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." -Jonah 3:10

He just said He would but never did it.

Wow so not only is he no longer omnipitant he is now also a liar?? This just gets better and better. Are you sure your god really wants you to try and represent him and pass on his message?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
God may be threatening but it is justified.

Anybody spot a U turn there???

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
He is not God because the only God is the God who's Word is found in the Holy Bible.

You do realise of course, that the bible was written by satan to tempt you in to blind acceptance. Thus not making the most of the free will god gave you. So when you come before god you will be cast in to hell for not making use of god's gift. Satan wants your soul and is doing a good job of winning it if you ask me.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Simple. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you.

Hello, god....anybody there?? < sound of crickets > Oh well guess not.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you accept Him as your Savior and follow His commands you will be Saved. That's Faith.

Woa there!! I am given free will, but I must not exhibit my free will, I must instead follow the commands of god?? So this is all one big test that we pass or fail?? Let's just hope it isn't Satan that set the test or you are really screwed:

Matthew 7:15-23,

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by spejic
Mr. 1inChrist, this is an unique and amazing opportunity to do something that has never been done before - convert atheists on this forum to Christianity. And it can be done because you have an actual connection to God. As God testifies through signs and wonders (Heb 2:4), it should be no problem for you to ask God for answers to questions that he would know easily, but that you could not know. You know, something like the location of Bin Laden, or tomorrow's lottery numbers, or how to get managed Direct3D indexed primitives working in a game I am working on. God knows exactly what it would take to get us to convert, and he can do it without effort.

Correct me if I am wrong but the "get out" for that one is "thou shalt not test the Lord"

[uruk]

Amen.

I had prepared a somewhat lengthy reply to this, but alas it got wiped in transit.
Here’s the short version....snip...

I just wanted to second what GM said here. My mother (who is a devout roman catholic) often says that a person who is really weak in his faith usually is the most vocal about his faith.

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by uruk
I just wanted to second what GM said here. My mother (who is a devout roman catholic) often says that a person who is really weak in his faith usually is the most vocal about his faith.

It's kinda like the closet homosexual who is disgusted with himself beating up the out spoken gay guy.

[c4ts]

If there is a devil, he's got all the religious nuts eating out of the palm of his hand.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by c4ts
If there is a devil, he's got all the religious nuts eating out of the palm of his hand.

I had to read that sentence a couple of times. I thought at first that it ran "if there is a devil, he's eating the nuts of the religious out of the palm of his hand".

I like my version better. :arrow:

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
I had to read that sentence a couple of times. I thought at first that it ran "if there is a devil, he's eating the nuts of the religious out of the palm of his hand".

I like my version better. :arrow:

What's funny is I just spent the last 15 minutes reading through www.kissthisguy.com.

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Dragonrock

It's kinda like the closet homosexual who is disgusted with himself beating up the out spoken gay guy.
Or the cop whose ultimate motivation for seeking a career in law enforcement was vicarious subjugation of his own criminal tendencies. Or the psychiatrist who hoped to understand his own pathologies.

[Anathema]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes the Lake of fire is a terrible place of horror, torture and pain but He gives us a chance to escape.

...and since this worldview falls apart without a "Lake of Fire" in which to punish the unwashed, Satan, rather than being an enemy of God, must be an employee. I mean, how could God possibly carry out his eternal plan without Satan's help? If Satan helps God, that must make Satan somewhat good.....or God somewhat evil.

You're right, it is:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Simple.

...painfully so....

[cbish]

I have a question for 1inChrist.

Where did evil come from?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by cbish
I have a question for 1inChrist.

Where did evil come from?

( Little Johnny in back of class.. Raising hand frantically... Uhh, Uhh, may I answer? Pleeeeeeeeeeease ? )


I predict it has something to do with ' free will '...

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Dymanic
Or the cop whose ultimate motivation for seeking a career in law enforcement was vicarious subjugation of his own criminal tendencies. Or the psychiatrist who hoped to understand his own pathologies.

Speaking of which, why couldn't I have been the 20 year old boy seduced by his hot psychiatrist?

Or the single guy who's well built female boss demanded "service".

Ehh, gettin' a lil' off topic, sorry.

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I will be back to answer EVERY post.

God bless,
1inChrist

OK, here's one I've been wondering about...

How long does a blessing last?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by alfaniner
OK, here's one I've been wondering about...

How long does a blessing last?
5 seconds less than required to do anything remotely useful.

[singlemalt]

Originally posted by cbish
I have a question for 1inChrist.

Where did evil come from?

live backwards. re: speaking in tongues and other fundaMENTAL garbage.



Why is something so rare called common sense?

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
EVERY post?

OK, if God leaves Birmingham, Alabama at 6:15pm on a bus travelling 62mph heading NNE, and Satan leaves Little Rock, Arkansas os a skateboard, travelling 10mph heading S, who has the cooler watch? Justify your answer.
The one with argyle socks, you doofus.

ROFLMAO

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Upchurch
and thus we have reached the upper bound of the thead, via Godwin's Law (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html). Pity, I was hoping for an explination for God's approval of slavery (thus, making slavery "good").
Seems like we ran into Formosa's Law (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/Formosas-Law.html) on the first page.

[Beerina]

> [...and that some of] His creations would choose to bathe in the Glory of Him.


Seriously, is this better than a BJ from Angelina Jolie? Would I have more butterflies in my stomach, eternally, than, say, a gay 50 year old man s***ing c**k for the very first time?

No, seriously. Is it better than that?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by uruk
I just wanted to second what GM said here. My mother (who is a devout roman catholic) often says that a person who is really weak in his faith usually is the most vocal about his faith.

That's more of an accusation than an observation. I think I understand what she means, that some can hide weakness by imitating strength, but that doesn't mean it applies to everybody who is vocal about their faith. They might simply be mentally asleep, snoring loudly.

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Fact: God=Good. If God does it, it's good whether we humans agree or not. God can not do evil.

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."


Judges 9:23
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech"

1 Kings 14:10-11
"Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone. Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the LORD hath spoken it."


It seems God is capable of doing plenty of evil on his own. With a God like this, who needs Satan?

[alfaniner]

Just wanted to try this...
<table width=400 style="filter:glow(color=red, strength=10)">HellFire</table>

...Cool!!

[Mojo]

Originally posted by 1inChrist on 28th September

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dymanic
So you do earn salvation, by having faith? That doesn't seem consistent with these passages:

And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed -Acts 13:48

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified -Romans 8:29-30

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. - Ephesians 1:4-5


Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. -2 Timothy 1:9

Where did you get the idea that it was a choice? The bible says whether one is saved is predestined. Obviously, I simply wasn't chosen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know the answer to this question.........let me get back to you.

The suspense is killing me...