Why support certain teams and athletes ?

[El Greco]

I didn't post this in Sport because it has more to do with Skepticism.

Besides Love and Politics, Sports is the third subject where otherwise skeptical minds seem to shut off. I've noticed it again in the Olympics where everyone was supporting the Greek athletes. Why does it go without saying that we have to always support athletes from our country ? What exactly is it that they give back to their country ? People use to say that they improve the image of the country, but I have great difficulty accepting this. Cuba has a lot of great athletes but their successes have failed to improve my idea of this country. On the other hand, my appreciation for Luxemburg hasn't been diminished by the absence of any world class athletes from this country.

People will go as far as to cheer for athletes who only recently got the Greek nationality and they can't even speak a single Greek word. Sometimes we also know that they chose to become Greek only because they couldn't be in the Olympic team of their original country. What do we have in common with them that makes us want to cheer them ?

In football the things are even worse. Why support a specific team nowadays, when it is more than evident that everybody is playing just for money ? Why would a British fan support Chelsea last year, when it didn't have any British players among the main squad ? How is it possible for a football lover to always support the same team, no matter how terribly it may play during a season ? What does he get in return for his support ?

Many people like the idea that they belong somewhere (insecurity ?) and it can also be fun. But there is a long way between this and the extreme displays of adherence and bigotry that we often experience.

[joobie]

it's all emotional.

when i was a kid, the phillies were a great baseball team. lots of first place finishes (late 70s, pedants), culminatinig in their 1980 world series title.

it was a huge part of my childhood and because of that i've never given up hope that they'll win again.

(they haven't, scorekeepers. stop rubbing salt in my wounds.)

[EdipisReks]

when i was a kid, and my family still lived in florida, my parents told me i would go to the University of Florida. naturally, because of this, i decided to like their arch rival Florida State. i've rooted for FSU in football ever since.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by El Greco
Why would a British fan support Chelsea last year, when it didn't have any British players among the main squad ?
Terry? Lampard? Bridge? Cole?

But, aside from that, supporting a club isn't to do with nationality, it's just to do with the club.

I support Carlisle United, and have done since the 1970s, because my parents used to take me to matches. It doesn't matter what nationality the individual players are; when a player is wearing a Carlisle shirt they're a Carlisle player (we've currently got a Brazilian lad called Vieira on loan - he scored a hat trick for us last Saturday).

[DangerousBeliefs]

And you consider being a skeptic in sports important?

What supernatural or extraordinary claims are made in sports?

99% of us know we're cheering for the losing team... but it's OUR team.

Now, if my team claimed to have angels helping it (oh my ED was that a horrible series of movies!)... then I would be the first one to cry foul.

[Joe_Black]

It helps too know that they have supporters. Moral.

[pupdog]

Listening to the fans can be as much fun as listening to a couple of football players arguing over which team is going to give how much more than 100 percent. I like how the sofa spuds tell how "WE really kicked ass!" or "WE played very well today."

I disliked the Dodgers. After all, my mother (a Giants fan) told us the Dodgers picked their noses.

Yes, it is kinda like religion.

[Jon_in_london]

More to the point- why is nationalism OK but rascism not?

I mean if I said "I support him/her because he/she is English/British" that would be nothing less than expected.

But if I said "I support him/her because he/she is the same race as me"- I would be labelled a rascist. Not so?

Why?

[Mojo]

Strangely, most of the Cypriots in my part of town suddenly turned out to be Greek this summer...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3865711.stm

[Batman Jr.]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
More to the point- why is nationalism OK but rascism not?

I mean if I said "I support him/her because he/she is English/British" that would be nothing less than expected.

But if I said "I support him/her because he/she is the same race as me"- I would be labelled a rascist. Not so?

Why?
I've always thought nationalism to be a dangerous thing. It shuts your brain off just as quickly as religion does and it's the reason why people like George W. Bush can manipulate their compatriots with such facility. Many others find themselves disgusted with it, though in discussing it in such a mode of thought, it is usually referred to under its more derisive monikers, jingoism and chauvinism.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Here we support our CFL Saskatchewan Roughriders (GO RIDERS) blindly. In a province of less than a million people, we have packed stadiums nearly every home game and have one of the most devoted fan-bases in all of Canada. The Riders have come close to winning the Grey Cup twice in the last 15 years (won once), and since have barely made the playoffs most years. We love our Riders...because we do. They're not the greatest team, but they're the only team we have and we know how to appreciate them.

I've always thought national pride is a good thing as long as its more in the spirit of good fun rather than violence as some people take it. Here in Canada we have alot of pride for our country...probably more than Americans. We always seem to be living in their shadow so we love to have our own natinalistic identity and cheering for our athletes is just a part of that. :)


(GO RIDERS!!!)

[crimresearch]

Apparently blind faith in a group identity offers some people comfort...whether team, political party, nationality, or some other externality.

Us vs. Them, the green monkey... 'We're number One'...
'You must be one of those xxxxx supporters', etc.

[plindboe]

It's part of human nature to divide into groupings. A group is stronger than an individual, and this is why this trait has been continuously enhanced during the evolution that led to modern man. Of course social animals show this tendancy too, but with a bigger brain in humans, there have been added thousands more ways to divide in groupings. In our modern world most of these are entirely illogical, but I don't think any of us can really escape this way of thinking entirely since it's our nature.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Mojo

I support Carlisle United, and have done since the 1970s, because my parents used to take me to matches.

I don't doubt that people have a reason for supporting a team. But I see people who have renounced religion, yet they'll never think about changing their team.

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
And you consider being a skeptic in sports important?

What supernatural or extraordinary claims are made in sports?

99% of us know we're cheering for the losing team... but it's OUR team.

What makes it YOURS ? Why not choose another team each season and say it's yours ? What do you get in return for your support ? As a football fan myself, I enjoy good football. Why should I care which team plays it ?

As long as it is just fun, I guess it's not important, even though it still makes me wonder why. But I've seen some serious implications. Notwithstanding infamous incidents in the fields, I've seen the fate of politicians depending entirely on their attitude towards the local team. These days, a popular football team of Athens is facing serious financial trouble; the court has denied for the second time to write off its debts and now the perspective of bankruptcy is more than probable. I'm amazed by the number of people who demand the state to do something about it, not realizing (or perhaps in spite of realizing) that in such a case those debts are simply going to be payed by the taxpayers. I mean, why give a flying f*ck about whether a company is going to bankrupt or not ?

Originally posted by plindboe

It's part of human nature to divide into groupings.

Of course, but why exactly should one cling to the same group for all his life ? I have a friend who has a very nice attitude about it: When we watch any game, he will make me choose one of the teams and then he is going to support the other one, just for the fun of it.

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

More to the point- why is nationalism OK but rascism not?

Yep... that's indeed a more poignant version of the same question...

[geni]

Following a team makes it more fun. It means you care about the result.

[plindboe]

Originally posted by El Greco
Of course, but why exactly should one cling to the same group for all his life ?

There is no actual reason. It's simply hardwired into your brain to choose and support a group no matter how stupid and illogical it really is. Human nature, no more no less.

[plindboe]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
More to the point- why is nationalism OK but rascism not?

I mean if I said "I support him/her because he/she is English/British" that would be nothing less than expected.

But if I said "I support him/her because he/she is the same race as me"- I would be labelled a rascist. Not so?

Why?

Just wanted to add that this was a great point. :D I guess history(especially nazism and racial hatred in the US) is the prime cause of how we see racism today. But perhaps nationalism and racism shouldn't be viewed that differently.

[The Don]

Its another one of those irregular nouns...

- I am patriotic
- You are jingoistic
- He is racist

[Shane Costello]

Patriots love their country, while nationalist creeds always seem to be entwined with antipathy to other nations. In my experience self-criticism and patriotism are not mutually exclusive, while the same is rarely true of nationalism. Irish patriots would deplore IRA bombings in Britain, while Irish nationalists would bend over backwards in apologetics for the bombings and their perpetrators.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

More to the point- why is nationalism OK but rascism not?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Nationalism)
noun: the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other
noun: the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals
noun: the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination
noun: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first definition contains the same element as definitions of racism...the idea that another group or its members are inferior...

Conflating the other definitions of nationalism with racism would appear to be fallacious, since they lack the critical element of subordination.

So who exactly is saying that the first sort of nationalism is OK, but racism isn't?

[Grendel]

Supporting a given sports team is simple vicarious living, and extending a link into the web of society. Benefits are found with social inclusion, shared joy, shared disappointment, plus you get to externalize being against the other guys without actually causing them harm. European soccer excluded. And North American pee wee ice hockey. And basketball. OK, time to rethink.