Iraqis Pledge Loyalty To The United States [Archive]

My Final Spider

21st March 2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
To the chants from Iraqi citizens freed by US forces who shouted "No Saddam!! We Love Bush!!!", Iraqi citizens are pledging (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81784,00.html) their loyalty to the heroic capitalist struggle the instant that they are freed of their former terrorist leaders.

This is a great day for capitalism.

JK

As I recall, soviet people greeted Hitler's army during World War II as liberators from Stalin. That didn't turn out very well.

Not, of course, that the US is like Nazi germany in any way - I'm just sayin'.

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by My Final Spider

As I recall, soviet people greeted Hitler's army during World War II as liberators from Stalin. That didn't turn out very well.

Not, of course, that the US is like Nazi germany in any way - I'm just sayin'.

The Russians did greet Hitler's troops but were dismayed when his Landesgrupen detachments began to kill all of them.

Is that what the US is doing?

No.

So your point--or were you twisting history a bit?

JK

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 10:32 AM

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Capitalism?

Or colonialism?

What country besides the Phillippines has the United States ever colonized? :eek:

JK

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by My Final Spider

As I recall, soviet people greeted Hitler's army during World War II as liberators from Stalin. That didn't turn out very well.

Not, of course, that the US is like Nazi germany in any way - I'm just sayin'.

Kinda depends on which side of the front line they happen to find themselves, eh?

And as to comparisons to Nazi Germany, there are more every day. I especially like the abridgement of civil rights... are internment camps for Iraqis around the corner?

My Final Spider

21st March 2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

The Russians did greet Hitler's troops but were dismayed when his Landesgrupen detachments began to kill all of them.

Is that what the US is doing?

No.

So your point--or were you twisting history a bit?

JK

My point is that just because the Iraqis are happy (or pretending to be happy) now dosn't mean it's going to be smooth sailing and that we shouldn't expect all the Iraqi citizens to line up to be the first to hug an American.

Furthermore, I'm aware that the US isn't doing what Nazi Germany did, since I wrote

Not, of course, that the US is like Nazi germany in any way

Please actually read all of my post before hitting that reply button.

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Kinda depends on which side of the front line they happen to find themselves, eh?

And as to comparisons to Nazi Germany, there are more every day. I especially like the abridgement of civil rights... are internment camps for Iraqis around the corner?

Interesting fiction but I don't see any substance in what you are saying. If the US was a colonial power, we would have our people colonizing 3/4 of the world by now. Instead, countries that have gone to war against us had their countries given back to them once we won.

That is not colonialization. That is implementing freedom and freeing people.

That said, did your opinions form from interaction with some leftist college?

JK

Skeptic

21st March 2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Capitalism?

Or colonialism?

Doesn't really matter, does it? If I were Iraqi, I would be praying every day that the US WOULD colonize Iraq. Being ruled by the USA, experience in Germany, Japan, and the Philipines show, means peace and prosperity. Far better than being ruled by the local dictator, in most cases. Unfortunately for the average Iraqi, it is unlikely the US actually plans to colonize Iraq and more than it planned to annex Germany after WWII. But at least the US gets rid of one of the most disgusting dictators of the century.

The "protestors of american imperialism" are REALLY pushing it when, like now, they are claiming that the obviously-staged mass demonstrations against Iraq in Baghdad a few weeks ago expressed the "real feeling" of the Iraqi people... while the spontaneous support and euphoria by the Iraqis after being occupied by the marines and liberated from Saddam are somehow due to "fear" or "propaganda".

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

What country besides the Phillippines has the United States ever colonized? :eek:

JK

Wanna bet that the US will be importing copious amounts of Iraqi oil within 2 years? Will Iraq be our next colony? I bet we spend a few more bucks to fix up Iraq than we did Afghanistan. I wonder why?

At any rate, the colonial thing was a reply to the comment about this being a "great day for capitalism". Obviously, neither capitalism nor democracy have anything to do with what is going on in Iraq.

Might makes right. And so it's a great day for the fearsome might of the United States, for our armed forces, and for having more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. I know I'm proud to be an American.

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by My Final Spider

My point is that just because the Iraqis are happy (or pretending to be happy) now dosn't mean it's going to be smooth sailing and that we shouldn't expect all the Iraqi citizens to line up to be the first to hug an American.

Furthermore, I'm aware that the US isn't doing what Nazi Germany did, since I wrote

Please actually read all of my post before hitting that reply button.

That was leftist spin. You used the historical fact that the Russians were mowed down by Hitler's troops after they cheered them.

You deliberately said that to put US forces and the Iraqi war in the same perspective. I did read what you said and understood what you meant.

What leftist cultural terror does, as the so-called "peace marches" in San Fran, for example, demonstrate, is that people try to make the US seem like a fascist state system comparable to the Nazis. It doesn't matter if you included a minor sentence after saying that: "I didn't mean to compare the US to the Nazi Socialists", but that is what you did mean. You used it as a cover as communists use the Communist Manifesto as enlightenment but shun Soviet Communism as a failure.

It is laughable.

I think the time has come to be very clear with what people mean when they describe US action in Iraq. No one that has any level of intellect believes that the US is going to indefinitely occupy Iraq. That is laughable commie spin based on unrealities.

Marx is lame. Read some Lincoln, Jefferson and Bush.

Would the US send teams of press personnel with the front-line forces if they were going to "gun down" innocent Iraqis? I think it is time for people to get a clue. :eek:

JK

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Wanna bet that the US will be importing copious amounts of Iraqi oil within 2 years? Will Iraq be our next colony? I bet we spend a few more bucks to fix up Iraq than we did Afghanistan. I wonder why?

At any rate, the colonial thing was a reply to the comment about this being a "great day for capitalism". Obviously, neither capitalism nor democracy have anything to do with what is going on in Iraq.

Might makes right. And so it's a great day for the fearsome might of the United States, for our armed forces, and for having more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. I know I'm proud to be an American.

I am not psychic so I can't predict the future but I do state right now that the United States will not occupy Iraq. Iraq will belong to the Iraqi people as soon as the Marxist terrorists running it are wiped out. I say that with extreme confidence because I have no confusions about what my country stands for.

If I am wrong, show me proof rather than mirroring adolescent comments heard from sophomoric Marxist useful idiot students at campuses like Berkeley.

JK

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Skeptic

Doesn't really matter, does it? If I were Iraqi, I would be praying every day that the US WOULD colonize Iraq. Being ruled by the USA, experience in Germany, Japan, and the Philipines show, means peace and prosperity. Far better than being ruled by the local dictator, in most cases. Unfortunately for the average Iraqi, it is unlikely the US actually plans to colonize Iraq and more than it planned to annex Germany after WWII. But at least the US gets rid of one of the most disgusting dictators of the century.

The "protestors of american imperialism" are REALLY pushing it when, like now, they are claiming that the obviously-staged mass demonstrations against Iraq in Baghdad a few weeks ago expressed the "real feeling" of the Iraqi people... while the spontaneous support and euphoria by the Iraqis after being occupied by the marines and liberated from Saddam are somehow due to "fear" or "propaganda".

First, you are making my point for me. Mexicans might like us to adopt them, too. This isn't about the United States going around and seeing whom we can "liberate".

Second, I do not claim that Iraqis love Saddam. Or even like him. Even a little bit. But the sovereignty of nations MUST be respected at all times if we are to live in a civilized world.

It is a slippery slope. We are crossing a line, a very serious line. How will we be able to prevent ourselves from exercising our vast power to mold the entire world into a shape of our choosing?

rikzilla

21st March 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Wanna bet that the US will be importing copious amounts of Iraqi oil within 2 years? Will Iraq be our next colony? I bet we spend a few more bucks to fix up Iraq than we did Afghanistan. I wonder why?

At any rate, the colonial thing was a reply to the comment about this being a "great day for capitalism". Obviously, neither capitalism nor democracy have anything to do with what is going on in Iraq.

Might makes right. And so it's a great day for the fearsome might of the United States, for our armed forces, and for having more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. I know I'm proud to be an American.

The destruction of a terrorist state is a moral act.
The toppling of a tyrant is a moral act.
The freeing of the oppressed Iraqi people is a moral act.
The use of precision weapons to insure the least possible collateral damage is a moral act.

"Might makes right" is merely another slogan uttered by people who like chanting more than they like thinking.

We were righteous long before we employed our might.

I'm quite proud and happy to be an American today.

-zilla

My Final Spider

21st March 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

That was leftist spin. You used the historical fact that the Russians were mowed down by Hitler's troops after they cheered them.

You deliberately said that to put US forces and the Iraqi war in the same perspective. I did read what you said and understood what you meant.

I'm pointing to an event in the past - The Russians welcomed the Germans with open arms, and then turned on them.

I also pointed out that it's not a perfect example, as the Germans did some pretty bad stuff to the Russians. Diffrent situation.

I'm not sure what makes this "Leftiest cultural terror" as seen below.

What leftist cultural terror does, as the so-called "peace marches" in San Fran, for example, demonstrate, is that people try to make the US seem like a fascist state system comparable to the Nazis. It doesn't matter if you included a minor sentence after saying that: "I didn't mean to compare the US to the Nazi Socialists", but that is what you did mean. You used it as a cover as communists use the Communist Manifesto as enlightenment but shun Soviet Communism as a failure.

That's not what I meant. Please read the above until you understand it. I find it amazing that you can read me saying that the US isn't like Nazi germany and then turn around and accuse me of trying to demonstate that the US is like Nazi germany.

Like Rush Limbaugh says: "Words mean things".

It is laughable.

I think the time has come to be very clear with what people mean when they describe US action in Iraq. No one that has any level of intellect believes that the US is going to indefinitely occupy Iraq. That is laughable commie spin based on unrealities.

And when did I ever say that?

Oh, right. I didn't.

Marx is lame. Read some Lincoln, Jefferson and Bush.

Would the US send teams of press personnel with the front-line forces if they were going to "gun down" innocent Iraqis? I think it is time for people to get a clue. :eek:

JK

Well, I'll agree with the last sentance if nothing else. :D

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

I am not psychic so I can't predict the future but I do state right now that the United States will not occupy Iraq. Iraq will belong to the Iraqi people as soon as the Marxist terrorists running it are wiped out. I say that with extreme confidence because I have no confusions about what my country stands for.

JK

Marxist? Wow, you do have insight, don't you.

And about what our country stands for: it is obvious you know not the slightest what we stand for.

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by rikzilla

The destruction of a terrorist state is a moral act.
The toppling of a tyrant is a moral act.
The freeing of the oppressed Iraqi people is a moral act.
The use of precision weapons to insure the least possible collateral damage is a moral act.

"Might makes right" is merely another slogan uttered by people who like chanting more than they like thinking.

We were righteous long before we employed our might.

I'm quite proud and happy to be an American today.

-zilla

I agree. That "might makes right" slogan reminds me of the stupid commie slogan useful idiot Marxist students are using right now--"books not bombs".

That "books not bombs" slogan has got to be the most laughable Marxist student nonsense I have seen used since the 60's.

JK

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

I am not psychic so I can't predict the future but I do state right now that the United States will not occupy Iraq. Iraq will belong to the Iraqi people as soon as the Marxist terrorists running it are wiped out. I say that with extreme confidence because I have no confusions about what my country stands for.

If I am wrong, show me proof rather than mirroring adolescent comments heard from sophomoric Marxist useful idiot students at campuses like Berkeley.

JK

A few minutes ago, Tony Blair floated the idea that for a UN resolution to allow the US and Britain to administer Iraq after the war.

Proof enough?

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Marxist? Wow, you do have insight, don't you.

And about what our country stands for: it is obvious you know not the slightest what we stand for.

Well gosh, I would have to be a leftist to "understand", right?

Telling me I do not "understand" my country isn't going to stop the heroic capitalist liberation of Iraq. It might make you feel better about yourself by saying that--as if you have a wad of enlightenment in your back pocket ready to dispense.

Help me "understand"--but leave the Marxist sophomoric borish quotes out. If I wanted to hear that nonsense I would go to a leftist college and hang around there for a bit to listen to students who only have 1/2 an education.

JK

Jedi Knight

21st March 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

A few minutes ago, Tony Blair floated the idea that for a UN resolution to allow the US and Britain to administer Iraq after the war.

Proof enough?

We "administered" in Japan and Germany, Italy and other states. We "administered" in Panama, a war I fought in personally.

Did we "colonize" them?

Uh...no. I hope your teachers aren't telling you any different.

JK

Ladyhawk

21st March 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by DrChinese

Wanna bet that the US will be importing copious amounts of Iraqi oil within 2 years? Will Iraq be our next colony? I bet we spend a few more bucks to fix up Iraq than we did Afghanistan. I wonder why?

Probably...but I'll bet the Iraqi people won't have a problem with it. We've imported Iraqi oil before. So, what's your point? Maybe, for once, the people of Iraq will share in the profit instead of just Saddam.

At any rate, the colonial thing was a reply to the comment about this being a "great day for capitalism". Obviously, neither capitalism nor democracy have anything to do with what is going on in Iraq.

Not obvious to me. Do you honestly believe that every single Iraqi is motivated purely by fear when they surrender? Can you imagine living under the regime of a madman like Hussein and NOT wanting someone to liberate you? Do you believe that any people would prefer to live under a dictatorship of terror and murder?

Might makes right. And so it's a great day for the fearsome might of the United States, for our armed forces, and for having more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. I know I'm proud to be an American. [/B]

America isn't always right. Maybe this war did not have to be. But, if Saddam is removed from power, if the Iraqi people are liberated, if as a result, we have a better relationship with Iraq than we've ever enjoyed in the past, what harm is there in this? Like it or not, we are a superpower. There are no guarantees that we will not make mistakes. I know I truly am proud to be an American . There is no other country where I would rather live. And you?

Bentspoon

21st March 2003, 11:40 AM

Anyone that can proffer colonialism as a motivating factor of the US just loses all credibility with me.

What does a country have to do decade after decade to prove that is not the motivation. I may not be the most politically savvy person here but I can unequivocally throw that satement in the trash where crap belongs.

If we were a colonialist power, why do we not have Japan. For god sakes we had every right in the world to colonize and we had more than an opportunity and we probably would have had the support of the international community at the time - WE HAD EVERY RIGHT

If it were France or Germany with the power, do you think Japan would be an independent country today. The hell with France or Germany - fill in the blank. What country, being in our position at the end of WWII, wouldn't have taken it.

Name one!!

That is just bunk and Dr Chinese is way down the ladder of credibility in my book. I am curious to see what kind of garbage is next.

Following is a Dr. Chinese' post to answer JK's question:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jedi Knight:

What country besides the Phillippines has the United States ever colonized?

JK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wanna bet that the US will be importing copious amounts of Iraqi oil within 2 years? Will Iraq be our next colony? I bet we spend a few more bucks to fix up Iraq than we did Afghanistan. I wonder why?

At any rate, the colonial thing was a reply to the comment about this being a "great day for capitalism". Obviously, neither capitalism nor democracy have anything to do with what is going on in Iraq.

Might makes right. And so it's a great day for the fearsome might of the United States, for our armed forces, and for having more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. I know I'm proud to be an American.

I think Dr. Chinese' non-answer above says it all.

Bentspoon

c0rbin

21st March 2003, 11:56 AM

I am sorry it is you, DrChinese as you seem to be taking a beating from hawks here on this thread, but are you Amish?

If you are, then the import of oil really doesn't have any bearing on your life.

The rest of us are, whether we like it or not, useres of energy. Today, that energy must be pumped from the ground.

We are getting better at it, but for now, all of the world's prosperity depends on energy.

While it would not be my choice to leave it in the hands of religious extremists, if oil was our purpose, much like the colonialism argument earlier in this thread, we would have it.

I will wait and see. This conflict is not over by a long-shot. I still think America is a great land brimming with tolerance and intelligence and opportunity.

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Bentspoon
Anyone that can proffer colonialism as a motivating factor of the US just loses all credibility with me.

If we were a colonialist power, why do we not have Japan. For god sakes we had every right in the world to colonize and we had more than an opportunity and we probably would have had the support of the international community at the time - WE HAD EVERY RIGHT

If it were France or Germany with the power, do you think Japan would be an independent country today. The hell with France or Germany - fill in the blank. What country, being in our position at the end of WWII, wouldn't have taken it.

Name one!!

That is just bunk and Dr Chinese is way down the ladder of credibility in my book. I am curious to see what kind of garbage is next.

Bentspoon

Garbage, part II:

As I said, my colonialism comment was a counter to the comment about it being a "great day for capitalism". Doesn't anyone here get that capitalism has NOTHING to do with what is going on in Iraq? So if it not about colonialism either, OK. I am personally not that big on the "Blood for Oil" deal, although I am rapidly learning that Bush is capable of just about anything.

But since you mention it, I might point out that it is YOUR position that runs counter to the true American spirit, the spirit that makes America great - and that Bush is now tearing down.

You say "WE HAD EVERY RIGHT" to colonize Japan after WWII. So your view is: "to the victor go the spoils". How sad is that?????

Apparently, your view is the strong shall inherit the earth. Well, get ready to be happy - because that is certainly the way we are headed.

DrChinese

21st March 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Ladyhawk

America isn't always right. Maybe this war did not have to be. But, if Saddam is removed from power, if the Iraqi people are liberated, if as a result, we have a better relationship with Iraq than we've ever enjoyed in the past, what harm is there in this? Like it or not, we are a superpower. There are no guarantees that we will not make mistakes. I know I truly am proud to be an American . There is no other country where I would rather live. And you?

Sorry, I cannot agree with your thinking. Did you ever hear the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right?" We cannot expect that we will wake up in a few months and everything will be OK after thumbing our nose at the rest of the world. (The US only makes up 5% of the world's population.)

If I break into a bank, steal a few million bucks, and then the insurance company reimburses the bank from their reserves; well, who is really harmed by this?

Yes, we are the lone world superpower. When we acted in Gulf War I to protect Kuwait, I don't think I have ever been more proud of our country. Then Bush Sr. made the decision NOT to remove Saddam, and you what what? I was even more proud that he didn't take him out... it would have been so EASY. But Bush Sr. knew the importance of doing the right thing. Right for the US, and right for the world. He respected international law.

P.S. I live in the best place already.