Epistemology, atheism and The Holy Ghost.

[1inChrist]

To the atheist the root of knowledge is logic and reason. The atheist starts with I think therefore I am and builds upon it. Using the scientific method or mindset to determine reality from fantasy.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost
#2: The Holy Bible

And the Christian builds upon that.

In this post, I am going to show why the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible are better for forming an epistemology than logic and reason.

First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person. You have scientists that disagree on what makes sense. Also, logic and reason is flawed.

Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.

Now, can you trust The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible? Yes! You see, The Holy Ghost comes before even I think therefore I am. The Holy Ghost proves itself using means beyond our human understanding. You just know it. You can push your computer monitor over 100 times but still cannot know for 100% fact that it will fall over every single time. Sure, the laws of gravity say it will but you can't trust that even 100%. Why? Because there are many reports of people, animals and objects flying through thin air. So we know the law of gravity is not really a law, just a theory that comes from the flawed philosophy of logic and reason.

Now that you have The Holy Ghost guiding you, it's time to open up The Holy Bible to learn of our Creator, God. Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest.

In conclusion I think that The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible form an epistemology better than logic and reason.

Simply because the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible proves itself but logic and reason do not.

[roger]

Thanks for the laugh! :)

[Anathema]

Hmmmm.....fresh droppings....he must be around here somewhere.

Hopefully, he'll go back and address the growing list of unanswered questions in his previous threads, before attempting to enlighten us anew in a fresh pile....

[Capsid]

Wow, what a logical and reasoned argument.

[alfaniner]

So, God is a cheeseburger.

[roger]

Oh that's just great :mad: I'm allergic to God.

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest.


Except that if the holy ghost does the rest, then you aren't exercising free will. Oops, there's the old conflict between "God has a plan for your life" and "God grants you free will." I would like to say that it is an obvious conflict, but the obviousness is obviously lost on some.

Wow, it's really going to be a long week if I'm already so bored on a Monday that I've got nothing better to do than respond to this troll bait.

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
To the atheist the root of knowledge is logic and reason. The atheist starts with I think therefore I am and builds upon it. Using the scientific method or mindset to determine reality from fantasy.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost
#2: The Holy Bible

Your argument is dreadfully flawed, for how can you relate to these other-concepts without first relating to yourself ("I")?
Secondly, how can you comprehend these other-concepts at all without engaging your ability to reason/understand?

You mock reason yet fail to understand that even a
Sun-worshipping simpleton from the rainforest must use his [limited] powers of reason to comprehend the thing he is worshipping in relation to a comprehension of the self.


In this post, I am going to show why the The Holy Ghost

What is the "holy ghost"? How can you expect people to believe in an entity when they don't even know what it is?

First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person.

That's true, but it is not a proof that there is no absolute reason.

I admire your faith, but do not understand the basis of it.

[TruthSeeker]

Speak of the devil...


I was just asking where you were.

I declare Dragonrock the winner of this debate.

Oh, and, I'll have a house special, to go

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
To the atheist the root of knowledge is logic and reason. The atheist starts with I think therefore I am and builds upon it. Using the scientific method or mindset to determine reality from fantasy.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost
#2: The Holy Bible

And the Christian builds upon that.

In this post, I am going to show why the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible are better for forming an epistemology than logic and reason.

First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person. You have scientists that disagree on what makes sense. Also, logic and reason is flawed.

Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.

Yes, that is what logic would have me believe provided we also assume

A1. Jim knows what the special is,
A2. Jim knows that he is allergic to the special,
A3. Jim wishes to avoid an allergic reaction.

Since you made none of these assumptions, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.




Now, can you trust The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible? Yes! You see, The Holy Ghost comes before even I think therefore I am. The Holy Ghost proves itself using means beyond our human understanding. You just know it. You can push your computer monitor over 100 times but still cannot know for 100% fact that it will fall over every single time. Sure, the laws of gravity say it will but you can't trust that even 100%. Why? Because there are many reports of people, animals and objects flying through thin air. So we know the law of gravity is not really a law, just a theory that comes from the flawed philosophy of logic and reason.

Now that you have The Holy Ghost guiding you, it's time to open up The Holy Bible to learn of our Creator, God. Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest.

In conclusion I think that The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible form an epistemology better than logic and reason.

Simply because the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible proves itself but logic and reason do not.

Throughout the history of Christianity, people have prayed to Jehovah to end the plague du jour or to relieve them of yet another famine. None of those prayers worked -- until man began using logic, reason, and science to discover the cause of disease and how to increase crop yields. Science and reason work.

Nothing fails like prayer.

[1inChrist]

Except that if the holy ghost does the rest, then you aren't exercising free will.

WRONG! You CHOOSE to let The Holy Ghost guide you. You know, CHOOSE meaning you are exercising your free will.

Oops, there's the old conflict between "God has a plan for your life" and "God grants you free will." I would like to say that it is an obvious conflict, but the obviousness is obviously lost on some.

There is no conflict unless you are an atheist apologists who wants there to be a conflict with every aspect of Christianity.

Wow, it's really going to be a long week if I'm already so bored on a Monday that I've got nothing better to do than respond to this troll bait. [/B]

You can stop with the troll nonsense at anytime. I am here to debate God and philosophy.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by lifegazer Your argument is dreadfully flawed, for how can you relate to these other-concepts without first relating to yourself ("I")?

''I'' and God's will are the same.

Secondly, how can you comprehend these other-concepts at all without engaging your ability to reason/understand?

I do not use logic or reason. I use God. God tells me how to think, I don't tell myself how to think.

You mock reason yet fail to understand that even a
Sun-worshipping simpleton from the rainforest must use his [limited] powers of reason to comprehend the thing he is worshipping in relation to a comprehension of the self.

You are making an assumption. You assume that another human must use logic and reason like you do. You are assuming all human brains work the same. Care to back up this claim?

What is the "holy ghost"? How can you expect people to believe in an entity when they don't even know what it is?

The Holy Ghost is the messenger of God.

That's true, but it is not a proof that there is no absolute reason.

Yes it does. It proves in human understanding there is no absolute logic or reason.

I admire your faith, but do not understand the basis of it.

The basis is The Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost proves God's existence beyond means understood by scientific understanding.

[uruk]

Good lord, son! Do you have any idea what your talking about?

The bible is proven to be flawed and contradictory. For god's sake just read it! Don't just rely on what your pastor is telling you.

Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.
:

The syllogisim is flawed because the premises are too general or flawed in themselves. Logic is just a tool. If you use it incorrectly you'll get errors. Garbage-in, garbage-out applies.

You can push your computer monitor over 100 times but still cannot know for 100% fact that it will fall over every single time. Sure, the laws of gravity say it will but you can't trust that even 100%
You missunderstand the uncertainty principal. It applies mostly to the subatomic realm. If I push my monitor off my desk 100 times I will know with certainty that it will fall 100 times. I do not even have to be observing or present to know that it will fall. The law of gravity is a certainty. As a matter of fact, ALL the mechanical and electronic devices you use rely on the certainty of the laws of physics. Your computer, car, microwave oven, and even the P.A. system that your church uses are all designed and built with the certainy of knowlege of the physical laws.
Why? Because there are many reports of people, animals and objects flying through thin air. Please back this up with proof. Show me a scientific report of this phenomena, not just a web link to a religious or parapsycology site.So we know the law of gravity is not really a law, just a theory that comes from the flawed philosophy of logic and reason.
It is a theory that comes from observation and experimentation, not just a bunch of overpaid, longhaired college professors sitting around sipping tea.

The Holy Ghost proves itself using means beyond our human understanding. You just know it.
I see. That's your proof. "You just know it" Hmmmm... how do you just "know it"? Are you sure just invoking god's name alone will prevent satan from clouding your judgement? If you read the bible you will know that god tests his people (just to see how strong they are in their faith). How can you know if god is not testing you by allowing satan to continue to talk to you after you invoked his name? Remember god can do anything he wants.

Please, use the brain god gave you. He gave it to you for a purpose.

[Jellby]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person. You have scientists that disagree on what makes sense. Also, logic and reason is flawed.

[...]

Now, can you trust The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible? Yes!

Which Holy Bible?

The Catholic one?
The Protestant one?
The Orthodox one?
The Greek "original" (was it?)?
The Latin translation? The Vulgata?
The English translation? Which one?
The French translation?

Which part of the Bible?

I repeat myself: God created atheists to be atheists, or at least they chose to be atheists, why are you trying to change what God created?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Flaherty Yes, that is what logic would have me believe provided we also assume

A1. Jim knows what the special is,
A2. Jim knows that he is allergic to the special,
A3. Jim wishes to avoid an allergic reaction.

Since you made none of these assumptions, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

What I'm saying is you cannot take on the whole world using blind logic. If you do, you will eat many cheeseburgers in your life.

Throughout the history of Christianity, people have prayed to Jehovah to end the plague du jour or to relieve them of yet another famine. None of those prayers worked

Says who? The plagues stopped, eh?

until man began using logic, reason, and science to discover the cause of disease and how to increase crop yields. Science and reason work.

Lol, science. Right, isn't that the philosophy that says my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great grandmother was an ape?

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Nothing fails like prayer.

God does not answer all prayers.

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
WRONG! You CHOOSE to let The Holy Ghost guide you. You know, CHOOSE meaning you are exercising your free will.



There is no conflict unless you are an atheist apologists who wants there to be a conflict with every aspect of Christianity.



You can stop with the troll nonsense at anytime. I am here to debate God and philosophy.

Well, this is a bit of a conundrum. If God already has a plan for my life, then no matter what I do, my life is going to act itself out the way God wants. But wait! I have free will! I can change my mind about something and my life will go down a different path. I can even pray about my decisions and ask for God’s help. But wait! If God is omniscient and has a plan for my life, then he knew I was going to do that, so I didn’t really exercise free will at all! Or did God change his mind about his plan for my life because I prayed? But that would mean God didn’t have a plan in the first place, which means he can’t be omniscient because he didn’t know what I was going to do. But wait! Maybe that was part of the plan all along! And so on and so on, ad nauseam.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Jellby
Which Holy Bible?

The Catholic one?
The Protestant one?
The Orthodox one?
The Greek "original" (was it?)?
The Latin translation? The Vulgata?
The English translation? Which one?
The French translation?

Which part of the Bible?

I repeat myself: God created atheists to be atheists, or at least they chose to be atheists, why are you trying to change what God created?

The King James Verison.

[TruthSeeker]

1inChrist,

Can you think of a few ways you have used and profitted from the fruits of logic, reason and science just today?

If you can't, I'll list a few but you go first.

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Lol, science. Right, isn't that the philosophy that says my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great grandmother was an ape?



Hate to tell you this but you are an ape.

As a side note you are doind a better job of damaging chritianty than 100 athists working 24/7 for a year could do. kindly stop and say go and read the bible.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by agnostic_god
Well, this is a bit of a conundrum. If God already has a plan for my life, then no matter what I do, my life is going to act itself out the way God wants.

You do not understand God's plan correctly. God has a plan to create humans and give them free will.

But wait! I have free will! I can change my mind about something and my life will go down a different path.

Yes all humans have this. It's a gift from God.

I can even pray about my decisions and ask for God’s help. But wait! If God is omniscient and has a plan for my life, then he knew I was going to do that

Nope. God's plan is simply ''Let the humans do as they wish.'' Don't forget though, they are ETERNAL consequences.

so I didn’t really exercise free will at all!

Yes you do. If you choose to go down a different path you are using your free will, which is a part of God's plan.

Or did God change his mind about his plan for my life because I prayed?

God never changes His mind.

But that would mean God didn’t have a plan in the first place, which means he can’t be omniscient because he didn’t know what I was going to do. But wait! Maybe that was part of the plan all along! And so on and so on, ad nauseam.

Wow you really need to learn of the Lord and His plan of Salvation for all mankind.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
1inChrist,

Can you think of a few ways you have used and profitted from the fruits of logic, reason and science just today?

If you can't, I'll list a few but you go first.

No I cannot. Go ahead and attempt to name them. I'll knock down the charges 1 by 1.

[uruk]

What I'm saying is you cannot take on the whole world using blind logic. If you do, you will eat many cheeseburgers in your life.
Well, at least I won't starve.

1inC, let me ask you this question. Is god all knowing?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by geni
Hate to tell you this but you are an ape.

Funny, your precious science classifies me as a HUMAN BEING.

As a side note you are doind a better job of damaging chritianty than 100 athists working 24/7 for a year could do. kindly stop and say go and read the bible.

Um, no.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by uruk
Well, at least I won't starve.

1inC, let me ask you this question. Is god all knowing?

Yes, God knows all.

[Dogwood]

I dunno. I mean, I like a good spoof as much as anybody, and I can see that sometimes a certain degree of harshness is warranted. But I think you're going too far 1inChrist.

Most Christians aren't nearly as stupid and ignorant as you're trying to portray them. Ease up a bit and try to see things from a Christians point of view.

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by 1inChrist


You can stop with the troll nonsense at anytime. I am here to debate God and philosophy.

You don't fool me. I know that you are the ghost of T. H. Huxley, inhabiting the ether that we call the Internet in order to promote analytical thinking by demonstrating the lack thereof.

[1inChrist]

I dunno. I mean, I like a good spoof as much as anybody, and I can see that sometimes a certain degree of harshness is warranted. But I think you're going too far 1inChrist.

Too far? Huh?

Most Christians aren't nearly as stupid and ignorant as you're trying to portray them. Ease up a bit and try to see things from a Christians point of view.

Hmmmm.........wouldn't you rationalist apologists call this an ad hominem attack? Please, if you cannot address my arguments directly don't stoop to name calling. It just shows you cannot debate with me.

[Dogwood]

agnostic_god?

Not too sure of yourself, eh?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by agnostic_god
You don't fool me. I know that you are the ghost of T. H. Huxley, inhabiting the ether that we call the Internet in order to promote analytical thinking by demonstrating the lack thereof.

I am not a sock puppet so stop with the crap.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
No I cannot. Go ahead and attempt to name them. I'll knock down the charges 1 by 1.

OK, I'll answer for myself and you let me know if you can relate:

(I'll stick to science, mostly I think)

This morning, a clock-radio alarm woke me (science involved: time, electricity, radio)

I turned on the light (electricity, light bulb, switch)

I used the little girl's room (plumbing, sanitation, toilet paper)

I brushed my teeth (electricity, dental sciences, toothpaste, plumbing)

I made coffee (agriculture, fair trade, roasting technologies, electric grinder, paper filter, plumbing, coffee machine, electricity)

I turned on my computer (I won't even bother)

Do you see what I mean?

Your claim that you don't use science is a wee bit naive. But I still love ya, man.
:D

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Funny, you precious science classifies by as a HUMAN BEING.

humans are of the order primates which pretty much means monkeys (ok not quite it inlcudes a few odds and ends such as lemas and apes)



Um, no.

Hey whats wrong with reading the bible?

how about tutis chap 1 verse 14

or mathew chap 7 verse 1

Than think what you are doing when you condem unberlivers to hell

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by Dogwood
agnostic_god?

Not too sure of yourself, eh?

I'm god, but I don't know if I have a god or not. Omniscience only goes so far. (Ducks head as universe shakes from verbal paradox at the deity level.)

[Anathema]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I am not a sock puppet so stop with the crap. Please leave the scatological references to me. When you do it, Baby Jesus weeps....

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

Hmmmm.........wouldn't you rationalist apologists call this an ad hominem attack? Please, if you cannot address my arguments directly don't stoop to name calling. It just shows you cannot debate with me.

What? I'm not calling you stupid or ignorant. I'm criticizing your portrayal of a Christian apologist as being far too one dimensional. It really goes over the top. Most Christians I've known are intelligent, clever , well-read people. Your "1inChrist" character is a gross misrepresentation of the worst attributes of what are, for the most part, good kind people.

Just cut it out. It's tacky. Christians don't deserve your brand of unfair demonization.



edited for spelling...twice

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
No I cannot. Go ahead and attempt to name them. I'll knock down the charges 1 by 1.
I dont suppose you take for granted the naturalistic assumption that the words which appear in the bible the last time you opened it are the same words you'll see the next time.

And I dont suppose you realize the fantastic irony in taking for granted logic to show that logic is flawed (even your own).

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by geni
[B]humans are of the order primates which pretty much means monkeys (ok not quite it inlcudes a few odds and ends such as lemas and apes)

Well I don't believe in your science or rationalist fundamentalism.

Hey whats wrong with reading the bible?

how about tutis chap 1 verse 14

or mathew chap 7 verse 1

Than think what you are doing when you condem unberlivers to hell

Listen. I have read the Word. Do not challenge me to a ''Bible knowledge'' contest because I would learn you a thing or two.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Yahweh
I dont suppose you take for granted the naturalistic assumption that the words which appear in the bible the last time you opened it are the same words you'll see the next time.

It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
OK, I'll answer for myself and you let me know if you can relate:

(I'll stick to science, mostly I think)

This morning, a clock-radio alarm woke me (science involved: time, electricity, radio)

I turned on the light (electricity, light bulb, switch)

I used the little girl's room (plumbing, sanitation, toilet paper)

I brushed my teeth (electricity, dental sciences, toothpaste, plumbing)

I made coffee (agriculture, fair trade, roasting technologies, electric grinder, paper filter, plumbing, coffee machine, electricity)

I turned on my computer (I won't even bother)

Do you see what I mean?

Your claim that you don't use science is a wee bit naive. But I still love ya, man.
:D

Yes I use all those things. But I'm speaking of logic when used in philosophy.

[kuroyume0161]

Originally posted by Anathema
Hmmmm.....fresh droppings....he must be around here somewhere.

Hopefully, he'll go back and address the growing list of unanswered questions in his previous threads, before attempting to enlighten us anew in a fresh pile....

You, my friend, owe me a new keyboard and monitor. :D

See, it's easy to argue logically and reasonably against logic and reason. It always makes perfect (non) sense.

Robert

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!

See? That's just the kind of thing I'm talking about. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!


Except by the committee who wrote it? As in those lovely human people in Nicea?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Except by the committee who wrote it? As in those lovely human people in Nicea?

Only The King James Version can be trusted.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes I use all those things. But I'm speaking of logic when used in philosophy.


You also included science and even mocked it, if I recall correctly, my love. Don't do that again. You are as indebted to science (and the reason and logic behind it) as any of us.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Dogwood
See? That's just the kind of thing I'm talking about. You should be ashamed of yourself.

What!?! I am not tampering with His Word! If you want to know about TRUE Christianity, not the PC liberal modern garbage passed off as Christianity today, take a look at this website (www.jesus-is-lord.com)

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
You also included science and even mocked it, if I recall correctly, my love. Don't do that again. You are as indebted to science (and the reason and logic behind it) as any of us.

Science when used in philosophy is FLAWED and dangerous. I have proven this.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Only The King James Version can be trusted.

Which was written by men, not god.

[uruk]

Yes, God knows all.
Then we do not have free will. If god knows all then god already knows what our choices will be. That means when god made us he already knew wether we would choose him or not.
We only think we have free will because we do not know orselves what our final choice will be. But god already knows, because he knows all.

If god does not know what or choice will be, then god is not all knowing.

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Except by the committee who wrote it? As in those lovely human people in Nicea?

I don't know if I'd call that tampering with the word of God. Wasn't that more along the lines of deciding which words of God were worth keeping and which words of God were trash?

No, that can't be right. Certainly humans would never engage in such a behavior as, "I don't like what God's word says here, so I'm going to ignore it."

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Which was written by men, not god.

Men inspired by God.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!
So, you do take for granted the naturalistic assumption that words in your bible today are the same ones as the words you saw yesterday, and all the times before. Very good. (Or at least thats how I read it, I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth.)

Are you familiar with the many many mutually exclusive interpretations of the bible, (mis)translations, or its many redactions? Or that it used to be written in Hebrew and Greek? Have you heard of the non-canonical texts? Do you know how the bible was canonized (on a few occasions actually)?

Long story short: The Christianity you are familiar today is quite an alien concept than the Christianity Jesus - if he really existed - had in mind. Christianity has evolved over the past few thousand years, and the very existence of non-universal interpretations of Christianity are evidence that the Lords word can be tampered, distorted, and fabricted.

A heart-breaking realization to some individuals, usually to those who have never attempted a moment's time of outside reading.

[kuroyume0161]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
You also included science and even mocked it, if I recall correctly, my love. Don't do that again. You are as indebted to science (and the reason and logic behind it) as any of us.

You noticed that that was changed rather expediently also, huh?

I'd like his viewpoint on the unmitigated FACT that the Earth orbits the Sun - something which the Word doesn't profess. The RCC spent 500 years denying Copernicus, Bruno, Kepler, and Galileo because of doctrine based on an Aristotlian view of the 'heavens'.

Science doesn't contradict the Word - the Word contradicts reality.

We need to change this world. Humanity, oh humanity, your time is nigh. If we do not dissipate these ridiculous superstitions and literalisms, we are doomed to be as extinct as the other 90% of Earth's species. Rip those blinders from your eyes and see what exists for what can be shown not for what can be filtered into your perceptions shaded by dogma and ignorance...

Robert

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Science when used in philosophy is FLAWED and dangerous. I have proven this.

Well, now I'm sad because I missed that. Was this during the debate I won or the one Lisa won or yet another one?

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by uruk
Then we do not have free will. If god knows all then god already knows what our choices will be. That means when god made us he already knew wether we would choose him or not.
We only think we have free will because we do not know orselves what our final choice will be. But god already knows, because he knows all.

WRONG! Yes, He knows what will we do with our free will but He does not CHOOSE what we will do with it.

[quote]If god does not know what or choice will be, then god is not all knowing.

Nope. Clearly wrong as I have shown.

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
What!?! I am not tampering with His Word! If you want to know about TRUE Christianity, not the PC liberal modern garbage passed off as Christianity today, take a look at this website (www.jesus-is-lord.com)

Look, if you want to continue making fun of Christians, that's your business I guess. I certainly can't stop you. But don't expect anyone here to be impressed with your level of maturity. Free-thinkers have enough trouble as it is without militant atheists like yourself poisoning the well of civil discussion and making fun of Christians.

Get a clue.

[kuroyume0161]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Only The King James Version can be trusted.


... Should I even begin? ...

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Yahweh So, you do take for granted the naturalistic assumption that words in your bible today are the same ones as the words you saw yesterday, and all the times before. Very good. (Or at least thats how I read it, I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth.)[/b]

It is NOT an assumption! I KNOW it won't because His Word cannot change.

Are you familiar with the many many mutually exclusive interpretations of the bible, (mis)translations, or its many redactions? Or that it used to be written in Hebrew and Greek? Have you heard of the non-canonical texts? Do you know how the bible was canonized (on a few occasions actually)?

Again, only the original King James version can be trusted. Period.

Long story short: The Christianity you are familiar today is quite an alien concept than the Christianity Jesus - if he really existed - had in mind. Christianity has evolved over the past few thousand years, and the very existence of non-universal interpretations of Christianity are evidence that the Lords word can be tampered, distorted, and fabricted.

Not true. These are lies from liberal wannabe Christians who think Jesus is a hippie. Jesus Himself was a man of war.

A heart-breaking realization to some individuals, usually to those who have never attempted a moment's time of outside reading.

Your lies will not work on me as I am guarded by the armor of the Lord.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Well, now I'm sad because I missed that. Was this during the debate I won or the one Lisa won or yet another one?

It was the debate with the voices in his head. You didn't miss anything.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by kuroyume0161
... Should I even begin? ...

Go ahead. Many rationalist apologists before you have tried but failed miserably.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes I use all those things. But I'm speaking of logic when used in philosophy.
Here's a logical statement:

All pentagons have 5 sides.

Prove me wrong.


Better yet, locate your favorite mathematical theorem and disprove it. You'll win a Nobel prize. (I'll guarantee you that mathematics is an important aspect in science and philosophy.)

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!

Jesus cries when you lie for him.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
It was the debate with the voices in his head. You didn't miss anything.

oh. ok then. thanks

[Capsid]

Listen. I have read the Word. Do not challenge me to a ''Bible knowledge'' contest because I would learn you a thing or two
Priceless (my underline)

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Dogwood
Look, if you want to continue making fun of Christians, that's your business I guess.

How am I making fun of Christians? That would be making fun of myself. No, I think it's YOU PEOPLE who are making fun of Christians. Your master James Randi ridicules Christians all the time.

I certainly can't stop you. But don't expect anyone here to be impressed with your level of maturity. Free-thinkers have enough trouble as it is without militant atheists like yourself poisoning the well of civil discussion and making fun of Christians.

Did you just call me an atheist? :D Oh dear I cannot stop laughing at your ignorance. Me an atheist? I THINK ATHEISTS ARE SINNERS WHO HAVE REJECTED THE TRUTH THEY KNOW IS REAL.

Get a clue.

Get a Savior.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Flaherty
Jesus cries when you lie for him.

I do not lie. And Jesus sheds a tear everytime you speak against Him. He knows every step you take is one closer to the Gates of Hell.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I
Again, only the original King James version can be trusted. Period.


So the translation that was made to conform to the wants and politcal needs of a 17th century Scottish King is the only version that can be trusted? Really? Why? Why not earlier versions? Why not more recent translations from earlier versions? In short do you have any reasons beyond 'The King James version is the one I grew up with'?

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Again, only the original King James version can be trusted. Period.


Really? myself a prefer the greek it was translated from.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
[B]So the translation that was made to conform to the wants and politcal needs of a 17th century Scottish King is the only version that can be trusted?

PROVE THIS CLAIM!

Really? Why? Why not earlier versions? Why not more recent translations from earlier versions? In short do you have any reasons beyond 'The King James version is the one I grew up with'?

Because all other versions are corrupt.

[TruthSeeker]

Ny, have you heard? You've been cured. Congrats.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Ny, have you heard? You've been cured. Congrats.

Are you making a mockery out of the Lord and His choice to heal one of your own fellow unbelievers? Not very moral of you.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Are you making a mockery out of the Lord and His choice to heal one of your own fellow unbelievers? Not very moral of you.

Did you heal Ny and Cats Venm?

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Are you making a mockery out of the Lord and His choice to heal one of your own fellow unbelievers? Not very moral of you.

No, I'm just letting him know. He may not have read the other thread.

Are you cross with me? Don't be. I love you, afterall.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Did you heal Ny and Cats Venm?

Yes. Through the power of the Lord, I have healed your friends.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Yes. Through the power of the Lord, I have healed your friends.

Could we have some independent validation of this?

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Well I don't believe in your science or rationalist fundamentalism.

So? What I say is still true



Listen. I have read the Word. Do not challenge me to a ''Bible knowledge'' contest because I would learn you a thing or two. [/B]

Avoidence noted.

[Art Vandelay]

Pop quiz: the phrase "I think therefore I am" was originated by a person of what religious beliefs?

I suppose next he'll be trying to tell us that existentialism and heliocentrism are atheist inventions.

He also doesn't seem to understand the difference between certainty and knowledge.

But most of all, there's the silliness of attempting to use logic to disprove the validity of logic.

And Dogwood, you are wrong. I mean, he may very well be a troll, but there are real Christians that are just as divorced from reality.

BTW, I noticed the linked website has the same knight as is in the smilies here. Where did it come from?

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Did you just call me an atheist? Oh dear I cannot stop laughing at your ignorance. Me an atheist? I DESEST ATHEISTS.


Nobody's buying this little routine of yours anymore. You can spell "atheist" correctly but not "detest"? Be serious. Do you know how long Christians have had to put up with this kind of stereotypical garbage? being portrayed as unaware of their own religious works? of having little knowledge of science and history? of having no common sense or logical skills? This little act of yours of an ignorant religious zealot is nothing more than bigotry.

[uruk]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Only The King James Version can be trusted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You mean I can't also trust the original greek and latin scrolls from which the King James version was translated from?
And what about the problems with translation? Find what the spanish translation for the word gray and you will see the problem.

WRONG! Yes, He knows what will we do with our free will but He does not CHOOSE what we will do with it.

Yes he does choose our path. By allowing us to continue to exist after he has made us; knowing full well what our path will be. He has the power to change that path, but he does not use that power. This is no different from making us with our path fully chosen for us by god.
we can only have free will if god himslf does not know what our ultimate choice will be.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Could we have some independent validation of this?

Well, see, this is why I was letting Ny know. I thought for sure he'd have mentioned it in his earlier post. Could it be that he is healed and doesn't know it? Could it be that he is not healed?

hmmmmmm

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
It is NOT an assumption! I KNOW it won't because His Word cannot change.
What do you do when a Hindu "KNOWS" that his religion is correct and yours is incorrect? What do you do when you "know" that heavy objects fall faster than lighter objects? Or when you "KNOW" that diseases could never strike one of your kids? Possibly concede that you have no concept of anything that can rightfully be called "knowledge", and what you "KNOW" is simply incorrect, as is frequently the case with our intuition.

(Of course, you can validate your knowledge through logic, epistemology, and science if you life...)

Again, only the original King James version can be trusted. Period.
So, prior to 1611, no bible could be trusted? And you said his word hadnt changed. Which is it?

Long story short: The Christianity you are familiar today is quite an alien concept than the Christianity Jesus - if he really existed - had in mind. Christianity has evolved over the past few thousand years, and the very existence of non-universal interpretations of Christianity are evidence that the Lords word can be tampered, distorted, and fabricted.
Not true. These are lies from liberal wannabe Christians who think Jesus is a hippie. Jesus Himself was a man of war.
I dont see how what you wrote has anything to do with what I said.

If you dont have anything to say, I would appreciate it if you used the phrase "banana banana banana" so that folks wont have to ponder on whether you have a point.

Your lies will not work on me as I am guarded by the armor of the Lord.
Unless I have iron chariots, of course ;)

[Dymanic]

Canon of the Bible (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/larry_taylor/canon.html)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
PROVE THIS CLAIM!

Prove what claim? That King James I (the 'King James' referred to when one calls it the King James bible) was a 17th Scottish King? Get an encyclopedia, fer cryin' out loud.

Or do you refer to the fact that it was to fit James I wants and political needs. Being at work I can only refer you to history books, but the story basically goes that James I, upon attaining the throne of England in the 17th century set about creating a council to make church reforms to combat the growing influence of Puritans (the same puritans, BTW, whose most extreme branches would settle in the New World and become known as pilgrims, so in a sense the King James version is anti-American;) ) and Catholics. Among those reforms was the creation of a single 'official' English translation of the Bible for use in the Church of England, which became what we know as the 'King James version. It was a political move, plain and simple.

BTW, by your logic, anyone who reads a bible in any language other than English, is reading a corrupt version. So I guess giving Bibles in Russian to all those Soviets back int he cold war was a wasted effort eh?



Originally posted by 1inChrist
Because all other versions are corrupt.

PROVE THIS CLAIM!

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Could we have some independent validation of this?

Can't say for certain until December, but there are certain problems that should be gone if I were healed and as of today, they are still there.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Well, see, this is why I was letting Ny know. I thought for sure he'd have mentioned it in his earlier post. Could it be that he is healed and doesn't know it? Could it be that he is not healed?

hmmmmmm

I don't think I am.

My problem, you see, is a pituitary gland tumor (non-cancerous, in case anyone worries). I get a yearly MRI to check on it and the next one will be in December. But the physical sympoms it causes are still there, so I doubt it is gone.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I don't think I am.

My problem, you see, is a pituitary gland tumor (non-cancerous, in case anyone worries). I get a yearly MRI to check on it and the next one will be in December. But the physical sympoms it causes are still there, so I doubt it is gone.


Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.

1inChrist, for those of us that are inpatient...could you heal my chest cold? It's really bad. It hurts to breath, cough etc. Thanks.

[Lisa Simpson]

Heal my migraines. I've had them for 25 years and I'm sick of them.

[The GM]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I don't think I am.

My problem, you see, is a pituitary gland tumor (non-cancerous, in case anyone worries). I get a yearly MRI to check on it and the next one will be in December. But the physical sympoms it causes are still there, so I doubt it is gone.

Acromegaly?(sp)
I know someone who had one of these and had it removed (the tumor, not the pituitary.) Worked wonders for their health.
Perhaps that is the miracle you should seek? ;)
Seriously, I hope you get along w/ it ok, I know from watching that condition that it can be no fun.

[The GM]

Originally posted by Dogwood
Look, if you want to continue making fun of Christians, that's your business I guess. I certainly can't stop you. But don't expect anyone here to be impressed with your level of maturity. Free-thinkers have enough trouble as it is without militant atheists like yourself poisoning the well of civil discussion and making fun of Christians.

Get a clue.

Thanks for mentioning this, Dogwood. I said the same last week after the obvious cliches came out. Even fundies aren't this poorly behaved.

[uruk]

And what about the problems with translation? Find what the spanish translation for the word gray and you will see the problem.
Terribly sorry for my atrocious spelling. But that word should be GRAVY not GRAY.

you should find that there is no spanish word for gravy. the closest translation is slasa (at least according to my grandmother, who is from Mexico, and Bable Fish)
Salsa really has a different meaning than gravy. Gravy and salsa are made with different ingredients and are not the same. Add to that that Salsa is different from one side of the border to the other.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by The GM
Acromegaly?(sp)
I know someone who had one of these and had it removed (the tumor, not the pituitary.) Worked wonders for their health.
Perhaps that is the miracle you should seek? ;)
Seriously, I hope you get along w/ it ok, I know from watching that condition that it can be no fun.

No, not acromegaly (though the doctors say that I could have had that, if my tumor had developed just a bit differently). It just produces a few odd hormones that it shouldn't and it has some effects that I don't really want to go into. But they are more annoying than life threatening. Even the annoying symptoms are (mostly) repsonsive to medication. The absolute worst case scenario with what I have is that it grows and begins pressing on my optic nerve and blinds me. But since I have it checked every year, I'll know long before that happens, and have it surgically removed if it ever comes to that point. No need to worry about me and my tumor.

I've had it looked at by a surgeon and we concluded that surgery posed more of a risk to my health than the tumor does, at this point, so we are leaving it be for now.

I am not seriously looking for a miracle. It only came up because 1inChrist wanted to demonstrate his healing powers and I knew that I had a condition that wasn't going to clear up on its own. Makes for a better test than, say, a bout of the flu.

[roger]

I would appreciate it if 1inChrist would heal my grandmother. Her name is Germaine.

[lifegazer]

I hate to castigate one who believes in 'God' since I want all people to believe in God; but when somebody-else castigates our only ability/attribute to even comprehend that entity - the ability to reason - I know, without any doubt whatsoever, that I'm justified in destroying the credibility of that 'one'.

You- 1inChrist - define/reason everything that you think you know. Even language is an expression of reasoned communication (a bit like mathematics). Yet you walk in here and use linguistic-terms which are referential to other terms and yet denounce the validity of reason in our pursuit of truth.
... Christianity is in a sorrier state than atheism, obviously.

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by lifegazer
I hate to castigate one who believes in 'God' since I want all people to believe in God;

Since I don't care if this thread gets derailed I wanted to ask you lifegazer; Since, as I understand it, your God is not a Judeo-Christian version, why does it matter to you if others believe in it or not?

[Lord Emsworth]

Oh my what a sad show again ...

Let's just get something productive out of this thread:


Originally posted by Art Vandelay
BTW, I noticed the linked website has the same knight as is in the smilies here. Where did it come from?


This one? :k:

It's the warrior from the game Diablo I.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.


P1: Jim will not eat the house special if he is allegic to it.
P2: He is allergic to it.

C: Jim will not eat the house special.

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I do not lie.

Another lie. Don't you get tired of being a lying liar?

God used to be my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
''I'' and God's will are the same.
Delusions of grandeur?

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by lifegazer
...castigate ...castigates... (from another thread) castigation...

Any guesses what was on LG's "Word-a-Day" calendar today?

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Dogwood
"I hate to castigate one who believes in 'God' since I want all people to believe in God;"

Since I don't care if this thread gets derailed I wanted to ask you lifegazer; Since, as I understand it, your God is not a Judeo-Christian version, why does it matter to you if others believe in it or not?
Those who castigate the existence of 'God' at the expense of
reasons supplied by the opening-poster are only castigating the existence of that God as viewed by that poster.
There are many posters here who think that the refutation of
a specific religious ideal/notion = the refutation of God's actual existence. My response would be that you only refute the ideas of that specific man pertaining to that actual God as he/she perceives it.

... 1inChrist is a complete plonker - his reasoning is absurd. Yet that only means that he himself is absurd... it doesn't mean that God' itself does not exist,
One must differentiate between 1inChrist's abilities to portray the truth and that truth itself.

[Dogwood]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Those who castigate the existence of 'God' at the expense of
reasons supplied by the opening-poster are only castigating the existence of that God as viewed by that poster.
There are many posters here who think that the refutation of
a specific religious ideal/notion = the refutation of God's actual existence. My response would be that you only refute the ideas of that specific man pertaining to that actual God as he/she perceives it.

... 1inChrist is a complete plonker - his reasoning is absurd. Yet that only means that he himself is absurd... it doesn't mean that God' itself does not exist,
One must differentiate between 1inChrist's abilities to portray the truth and that truth itself.

Okay. But why does it matter to you if people believe in a god or not? Why is it important to you that others should believe, either in your ACA definition or any other?

[1inChrist]

Well I have obviously won this debate. All of you rationalist apologists have failed to address my original point. You take the topic of epistemology and turn it into more attacks on the Word. Can't you atheists for one minute stop attacking the Bible and start addressing my arguments?

[Lisa Simpson]

You didn't win the debate. Dragonrock did.

[Dogwood]

There was a debate?

[Lisa Simpson]

Yes. If you want to win a debate, Truthseeker is the keeper of the winner list.

[c4ts]

We have to start posting scores in our sigs.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Yes. If you want to win a debate, Truthseeker is the keeper of the winner list.

Just to confirm that Dragonrock did indeed win this debate

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by lifegazer

... 1inChrist is a complete plonker - his reasoning is absurd. Yet that only means that he himself is absurd... it doesn't mean that God' itself does not exist,
One must differentiate between 1inChrist's abilities to portray the truth and that truth itself.

Irony... overload...

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by alfaniner
So, God is a cheeseburger.

I won this debate. I had the most logical conclusion (posted above).

[c4ts]

It's not about logic, it's about who can post "I won the debate" before anybody else. 1inC made that clear in the Million Dollar Challenge Forum.

[Lisa Simpson]

I thought it was by list...

[TruthSeeker]

Ok...so, the future winners will be:

Dragonrock
Nyarlathotep

Lisa Simpson
Ny
Alphaniner
Marquis and Puss



Shall we dispense with the waiting list?

[c4ts]

Well, you're not going to win a lot of debates by thinking...

[TruthSeeker]

c4, would you like me to add you to the list?

BTW, I won the rationalism debate. It was a tough one

[Lisa Simpson]

So is this now argument by rapidity? Whoever declares himself/herself the winner first gets the bragging rights?

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
So is this now argument by rapidity? Whoever declares himself/herself the winner first gets the bragging rights?

well then I win all future debates to infinity

[Lisa Simpson]

BTW, I won "The Reality of Eternal Hellfire"debate.

Oh, neener neener neener, TruthSeeker.

I won--Argument by childish namecalling.

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
So is this now argument by rapidity? Whoever declares himself/herself the winner first gets the bragging rights?

Argumentum Ad Primatus?

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
BTW, I won "The Reality of Eternal Hellfire"debate.

Oh, neener neener neener, TruthSeeker.

I won--Argument by childish namecalling.

Yeah, well...I am rubber. You are glue....I win by fabulous comeback!

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm telling Mr. Randi on you.

I win--argument by tattletale.

[TruthSeeker]

Don't matter. He loves me more than you.

I win - argument by favorites

[Lisa Simpson]

NO HE DOESN'T NO HE DOESN'T NO HE DOESN'T

I win--argument by temper tantrum

[TruthSeeker]

Did someone say something?

I don't think so.

I guess that means I win - argument by fingers in ears

[uruk]

Well I have obviously won this debate. All of you rationalist apologists have failed to address my original point. You take the topic of epistemology and turn it into more attacks on the Word. Can't you atheists for one minute stop attacking the Bible and start addressing my arguments?
Now I know 1inChrist is a lark. No real person can be this stupid.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Did someone say something?

I don't think so.

I guess that means I win - argument by fingers in ears

If you don't stop that, you will be stuck like that forever.

I win--argument by parental platitude.

[TruthSeeker]

Fine, then.

Be the winner.

Win all the debates for all I care.

Everyone knows winners are just stinkypants anyway

So, even though you may have won, really I am the winner here - argument by sour grapes

[1inChrist]

I won this debate because my original post presented an argument for God that has yet to be refuted.

It's simple, basing an epistemology on The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible is better than basing one on FLAWED logic and reason.

Yet to be debunked......

[Lisa Simpson]

Who likes ice cream?


I win--argument by changing the subject*



*thanks to my youngest son for this idea

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate because my original post presented an argument for God that has yet to be refuted.

It's simple, basing an epistemology on The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible is better than basing one on FLAWED logic and reason.

Yet to be debunked......

So your argument is that if Jim were Christian he wouldn't order a cheeseburger?

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Who likes ice cream?


I win--argument by changing the subject*



*thanks to my youngest son for this idea


No external sources allowed! You are disqualified.

I win -- argument by making up rules as we go along

[Lisa Simpson]

Well darn it, I can't argue with that one. :D

I win-argument by giving up.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate because my original post presented an argument for God that has yet to be refuted.

It's simple, basing an epistemology on The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible is better than basing one on FLAWED logic and reason.

Yet to be debunked......

Seems to me you didn't really respond to most of what people were saying.

Yahweh had a fabulous argument showing that you use a rationalist assumption and Ny and others asked you to consider the changes to the bible over time. YWe haven't even begun to think about what the Holy Ghost is. Does it exist? How does one base an epistemology on it? You never did explain the whole science thing to me. And we didn't even begin to consider the meaning of your failed healing.

No, my love, you did not win.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Well darn it, I can't argue with that one. :D

I win-argument by giving up.


Fine. You win.

You explain it to Dragonrock.

:D

[Lisa Simpson]

I don't see why 1inC would even want to win a debate. Winning a debate requires using logic and reason which are tools of Satan.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Well I have obviously won this debate. All of you rationalist apologists have failed to address my original point. You take the topic of epistemology and turn it into more attacks on the Word. Can't you atheists for one minute stop attacking the Bible and start addressing my arguments?


I already posted this:

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.


P1: Jim will not eat the house special if he is allegic to it.
P2: He is allergic to it.

C: Jim will not eat the house special.

[Z]

1inC cannot be debated nor his arguments refuted by logic and reason.

Therefore, there is only one way to debate 1inC:

The "Holy" Ghost is Satan, 1inC. The "Holy" Bible is a book of lies. I know, because God told me so. Further, if you want to know the truth, the truth has been summed up in an article by a staff newspaper writer in the Washington Post on the fourth page, first column, dated 13 August 1975. God told me this as well. But since I don't have a copy of that handy, I can't tell you what the truth is.

Further, God says you are a complete testicle, and you can expect a nice roasting in the afterlife next to Joan Crawford. Just FYI.

(Oh, and She said to tell L.G. that he's such a Pot, calling the poor Kettle black like that... )

There. Debunked, thoroughly and without resorting to logic and reason. Care to continue the debate, lastinchrist?

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
So is this now argument by rapidity? Whoever declares himself/herself the winner first gets the bragging rights?
I've already won the next debate. There, take that.

.
.
.

oh, and the one after that, too. Nanny, nanny billy goat.

ETA: Oops, too late. I win by tardiness.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I won this debate because my original post presented an argument for God that has yet to be refuted.

It's simple, basing an epistemology on The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible is better than basing one on FLAWED logic and reason.

Yet to be debunked......

You mean the Bible is based on regular logic and reason? You mean the same things which you said were created by Satan in an earlier thread?

I win the debate! Argument by colored words!

[Lord Emsworth]

Good
Evil

[Kitty Chan]

Someone back in this confusion or maybe another thread Im not sure anymore mentioned 1inChrist that you are directed by your pastor or whoever. Im thinking 1 its a good idea, you should type up your arguements and let the pastor or someone else look at them.

In what you say I think I know where your going sometimes but it gets lost. And you started with a prophecy *which may just be a word of knowledge as I understand things not a prophecy) and now you are speaking about healing.

Will you take your arguements to your pastor first before bringing them here, I think he may be able to help you sort them out a bit before posting so the frustration level can be lowered.

:)

[Kitty Chan]

ya mentioned headaches

my friend suffered badly for years and her dentist said to take out her wisdom teeth and it worked, killed the headaches.

dont know maybe it would help :)

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Those who castigate the existence of 'God' at the expense of
reasons supplied by the opening-poster are only castigating the existence of that God as viewed by that poster.
There are many posters here who think that the refutation of
a specific religious ideal/notion = the refutation of God's actual existence. My response would be that you only refute the ideas of that specific man pertaining to that actual God as he/she perceives it.

... 1inChrist is a complete plonker - his reasoning is absurd. Yet that only means that he himself is absurd... it doesn't mean that God' itself does not exist,
One must differentiate between 1inChrist's abilities to portray the truth and that truth itself.

Words have no independent meaning: the meaning of a word is determined by what meaning society assigns it. The word "God" refers to what society's religious ideal/notion of God is. Defending the existence of God by redefining what the word means isn't very constructive. When someone asks me whether I believe in God, I say "no". Yes, "I don't believe in any religious ideal/notion of God that I have come across, and I don't believe that any religious ideal/notion which I would accept can be accurately referred to as 'God' " might be more accurate, and if someone asks for elaboration of my views, I might say something like that. But normally, any benefit in accuracy in the latter answer is outweighhed by the clarity and succinctness of the former answer. Obviously, if you water down the definition of "God" enough, I would have to say that I believe in God. For instance, if the definition of God were "an entity more powerful than humans", then the sun would be God, and I certainly do believe in the sun. But that's just equivocation.

[AWPrime]

I have never seen such lack of reason and logic in my life as seen with 1inchrist.

It is unbelievable and it could only mean one thing => There is no GOD!!

[geni]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
To the atheist the root of knowledge is logic and reason. The atheist starts with I think therefore I am and builds upon it. Using the scientific method or mindset to determine reality from fantasy.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost

Spirit! it's the holy spirit

#2: The Holy Bible



You missed number 3. Since god created the world (for a givenvalue of created) knowlage of god must be obtianerble by studying the world. Of course you can get out of this one by claiming god did not creayte the world but don;'t think you are going to do that.

And the Christian builds upon that.


No they don't. A christian builds on the love the lord go has for them or did you miss that bit?
(note this may differ from demonination to denomination)


In this post, I am going to show why the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible are better for forming an epistemology than logic and reason.


Better assumes the two are mutaly exculsive


First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person. You have scientists that disagree on what makes sense. Also, logic and reason is flawed.


So does christiamn belife. You don't like catholic yet there are around a billion catholic. So it would appear views on the holy sprit and the bible differ somewhat


Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.


Strawman


Now, can you trust The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible? Yes! You see, The Holy Ghost comes before even I think therefore I am. The Holy Ghost proves itself using means beyond our human understanding. You just know it. You can push your computer monitor over 100 times but still cannot know for 100% fact that it will fall over every single time.

Didn't fall over one but no matter


Sure, the laws of gravity say it will but you can't trust that even 100%. Why? Because there are many reports of people, animals and objects flying through thin air. So we know the law of gravity is not really a law, just a theory that comes from the flawed philosophy of logic and reason.

The bible clearly states that at lest intialy jesus would have fallen had he jumped from the roof of the tempel. Ever time the bible vclaims something happens that breaks the laws of gravity there is always some claim or action from an outside being whehter it is in the form of angles or fireychariots

Now that you have The Holy Ghost guiding you, it's time to open up The Holy Bible to learn of our Creator, God. Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest.


Spirit! Can't you even get the name right?


In conclusion I think that The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible form an epistemology better than logic and reason.



One again you assume the two are mutaly exclusive


Simply because the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible proves itself but logic and reason do not. [/B]

You have failed to prove this in your post.

[alfaniner]

Hey, 1inC is totally right!!!

I won this debate -- argument by agreement.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
To the atheist the root of knowledge is logic and reason. The atheist starts with I think therefore I am and builds upon it. Using the scientific method or mindset to determine reality from fantasy.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost
#2: The Holy Bible

And the Christian builds upon that.

In this post, I am going to show why the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible are better for forming an epistemology than logic and reason.

First, how well can you trust logic and reason? I mean logic and reason differ from person to person. You have scientists that disagree on what makes sense. Also, logic and reason is flawed.

Take this for instance:

P. Jim walks into the cafe and says he wants the house special
P. The house special is a cheeseburger
C. Jim wants the cheeseburger.

But what if Jim is allergic to cheese? Than he ofcourse does not want the cheeseburger like logic and reason would have you believe.

Now, can you trust The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible? Yes! You see, The Holy Ghost comes before even I think therefore I am. The Holy Ghost proves itself using means beyond our human understanding. You just know it. You can push your computer monitor over 100 times but still cannot know for 100% fact that it will fall over every single time. Sure, the laws of gravity say it will but you can't trust that even 100%. Why? Because there are many reports of people, animals and objects flying through thin air. So we know the law of gravity is not really a law, just a theory that comes from the flawed philosophy of logic and reason.

Now that you have The Holy Ghost guiding you, it's time to open up The Holy Bible to learn of our Creator, God. Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest.

In conclusion I think that The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible form an epistemology better than logic and reason.

Simply because the The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible proves itself but logic and reason do not.

Just a general question - I guess you go to your church each day, and you seem to post a new topic on here most days. Would your post be the sermon from your minister. I just wonder as it comes across that way, as a sermon to the converted, no evidence, nothing to back up the claim, just circular logic based on "god tells me stuff, the bilble says that god exists and the bible is the word of god so it must all be true".

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I don't see why 1inC would even want to win a debate. Winning a debate requires using logic and reason which are tools of Satan.

1inC believes that opinion alone can win a debate. Opinion is superior to reason, in his opinion, therefore he must have won.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Funny, your precious science classifies me as a HUMAN BEING.

Human beings (homo sapiens sapiens) are African apes.
You, however, are a troll.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
You, however, are a troll.

Lighten up, 1inC. Trolls and humans share a common ancestor.

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Speak of the devil...


I was just asking where you were.

I declare Dragonrock the winner of this debate.

Oh, and, I'll have a house special, to go

Okay, this thread is officially closed, I won.

I'd like to thank the academy...

[roger]

No, I won thi s debate.

Argument by color.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by alfaniner
I won this debate. I had the most logical conclusion (posted above).

Nuh uh. Dragonrock won. I am next on the winners list so get in line and wait your turn buddy.;)

[alfaniner]

I won this debate.

How? If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

Argument By Argument.

[Nyarlathotep]

I won this debate.

Because if I don't win, Great Cthulhu will rise from sunken R'Lyeh and eat everyone.

Argument by Elder God

[Nyarlathotep]

I won this argument.

Because I have 5 ranks of diplomacy skill, a 15 charisma I rolled a 13 on my d20 and I have an Amulet of Debate Winning + 3, for a total of 24. Defeating 1inCHrist in debate only requires a 10.

Argument by D&D

[Dragonrock]

I won because my winning was seconded by someone other than me.


:hit:

[alfaniner]

OK, OK!! Everybody else won the debate!!

(Actually, I won -- Argument by Reverse Psychology)

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I won this argument.

Because I have 5 ranks of diplomacy skill, a 15 charisma I rolled a 13 on my d20 and I have an Amulet of Debate Winning + 3, for a total of 24. Defeating 1inCHrist in debate only requires a 10.

Argument by D&D

I hate 3rd edition rules. They totally neutered by 8th level magician by drastically reducing the duration of many of his favorite spells -- invisibility, charm person, fly, wizard eye, polymorph self.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Science when used in philosophy is FLAWED and dangerous. I have proven this.

Nope - you state it frequently, but "because god told me so" is not evidence.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Men inspired by God.

What if satan inspired a few and they slipped some of the contradictions in to the bible, that kind of makes sense. Trouble is which one is god's word and which is satan's?? Oh the dilema!!

[Dragonrock]

I win because you are all a bunch of twits.

arguement by Ad hom.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Flaherty
I hate 3rd edition rules. They totally neutered by 8th level magician by drastically reducing the duration of many of his favorite spells -- invisibility, charm person, fly, wizard eye, polymorph self.

Really. I consider the new rules a vast improvement. I think because things like feats and flanking and some of the new things make combat a bit more of a tactical affair, and that appeals to the wargamer in me.

But for the 'Old School' D&D players:

I win because I am a 15th level paladin with a sword +1/+3 vs trolls, and 1inChrist is a troll.

Argument by 1st/2nd edition D&D :D

[Marquis de Carabas]

up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start

I win. Argument from Konami.

[alfaniner]

Now I won.

Argument by Palindrome.

[AWPrime]

I won this argument.


Because I have more Clan Battlemechs! And if anyone disagrees they will be stepped on.


Argument by Battletech

[Lord Emsworth]

I win. Argument from exactly 700 posts.

[BillHoyt]

I won!

argumentum ad fontus maximus

[Piscivore]

"Lo, I have won!" - Sakuni, The Mahabharata

Argument from Obscure Cultural Reference

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Really. I consider the new rules a vast improvement. I think because things like feats and flanking and some of the new things make combat a bit more of a tactical affair, and that appeals to the wargamer in me.

I can see that. I don't play any fighters, so I am not as familiar with their feats. The wizard feats are pretty trivial, like getting to memorize certain spells without access to a spellbook. Nice, but it hardly compensates for a fly spell or a polymorph spell that once lasted 160 game minutes but now endure for only 8.

The charm person spell has been reduced in effectiveness, also. That was a good move. It used to last weeks potentially. When playing an evil cleric once, I used that spell to lure lots of townsfolk to join me on an expedition in which I sold them all into slavery. Mwhahaha!

[Marquis de Carabas]

Puss: The Marquis clearly won.

Argument from imaginary friend.

[Piscivore]

My son & daughter say I won.

Argument from offspring.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Flaherty
I can see that. I don't play any fighters, so I am not as familiar with their feats. The wizard feats are pretty trivial, like getting to memorize certain spells without access to a spellbook. Nice, but it hardly compensates for a fly spell or a polymorph spell that once lasted 160 game minutes but now endure for only 8.

The charm person spell has been reduced in effectiveness, also. That was a good move. It used to last weeks potentially. When playing an evil cleric once, I used that spell to lure lots of townsfolk to join me on an expedition in which I sold them all into slavery. Mwhahaha!
In 2nd Edition, there was a spell from a supplement (I forget which one) called Virus Charm. I loved that spell. You charmed one person, and anyone they came into contact with had to save or fall under your spell as well. 9th level, of course, and exquisitely devastating.

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Puss: The Marquis clearly won.

Argument from imaginary friend.

Isn't that the same as 1inC saying "god" says he won?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Flaherty
I can see that. I don't play any fighters, so I am not as familiar with their feats. The wizard feats are pretty trivial, like getting to memorize certain spells without access to a spellbook. Nice, but it hardly compensates for a fly spell or a polymorph spell that once lasted 160 game minutes but now endure for only 8.

The charm person spell has been reduced in effectiveness, also. That was a good move. It used to last weeks potentially. When playing an evil cleric once, I used that spell to lure lots of townsfolk to join me on an expedition in which I sold them all into slavery. Mwhahaha!

Okay, I will admit that the wizard got the brown end of the stick in the revamp. Most of my group prefers the new sorcerer class, over the wizard since they would rather be able to cast a handful of spells lots of time rather than have a broad variety. BUt I think everybody else improved. And even wizards have access to cool prestige classes, so they aren't totally screwed.

BTW, Flaherty and I are joint winners of this debate.

Argument by thread derailment:D

[Dragonrock]

I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


I won


argument by troll.

[alfaniner]

Eye one.

Argument by Homonym.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Piscivore
Isn't that the same as 1inC saying "god" says he won?
Well, yeah. But Puss can beat God up, so I still win.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Well, yeah. But Puss can beat God up, so I still win.

Argument from "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend"

[Dragonrock]

:::clicking heels together:::

There's no way I didn't win, there's no way I didn't win, there's no way I didn't win...


argument from somewhere over the rainbow.

[SezMe]

This thread has to win some kind of award for wandering furtherest (is that a word) from the OP.

And the author of that OP seems to have wandered off. May the ACA bless him.

[c4ts]

Phg'nuli mwlfmgath, iai r'lnynrk debate ftagn!

I win! Argument by Necronomicon!

[Ossai]

New job and not as much time on the boards, sigh.

1inChrist
It's not an assumption. The Lord's Word can NOT be tampered with. EVER!
Obviously the Bible isn’t the Lord’s word, else there wouldn’t be
A Catholic one, a Protestant one, an Orthodox one, a Greek one, a Latin translation, the Vulgata, numerous English translations, French translation, etc. And everyone one just a bit different.

To the Christian the root of knowledge is two things:

#1: The Holy Ghost
#2: The Holy Bible

And the Christian builds upon that.

Let’s take these one at a time.

The holy ghost, hereafter referred to as spooky and the holy bible, hereafter referred to as the big book of fear and control (BBFC).

Working assumptions – based on your previous posts:
Spooky – according to you in various threads, is both god and the messenger of god.
BBFC – according to you, at least the KJV, are Spooky’s words.
Will – your will is Spooky’s will.

Now that you have The Holy Ghost guiding you, it's time to open up The Holy Bible to learn of our Creator, God. Now all you have to do is sit back, let the words be scanned by your eyes and The Holy Ghost will do the rest. can be restated as:

Now that I’m guiding you Just sit back and let me do the rest.

Ossai

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I was hoping this would be about Jimmy Buffett's song "Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost."

~~ Paul

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
I was hoping this would be about Jimmy Buffett's song "Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost."

~~ Paul

No, but he did have one about a cheeseburger, I mean God, in Paradise...

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by alfaniner
No, but he did have one about a cheeseburger, I mean God, in Paradise...

Ah, interesting freudian slip. Now we know why his son said "Blessed are the cheesemakers..."

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by alfaniner
No, but he did have one about a cheeseburger, I mean God, in Paradise...

That was a great song...and you know, there is a church of Jimmy Buffet. I think I've seen the light!

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
That was a great song...and you know, there is a church of Jimmy Buffet. I think I've seen the light! The newer (apostate) "Parrothead" church is purely the Devil's spawn. TrueBelieverstm in the gospel of beachbummery end the Canon at Last Mango in Paris (MCA), 1985. All works beyond 1985 are apocrypha.

In other words, if you don't Ellis Dee, you don't know Shiatsu from Shinola

;)

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by Ossai
Now that I’m guiding you Just sit back and let me do the rest.


1inC: "Lie back and think of Jesus" - I knew all his talk of "getting people in their ends" meant 1inC was a huge a$$ freak. :D

[daenku32]

Not sure if anyone addressed this important point yet, but exactly what did Bible say about falling monitors?

[The GM]

Originally posted by daenku32
Not sure if anyone addressed this important point yet, but exactly what did Bible say about falling monitors?

Move out of the way?

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by daenku32
Not sure if anyone addressed this important point yet, but exactly what did Bible say about falling monitors?

(Channeling Google here):

Did you mean "meteors" ?

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by daenku32
Not sure if anyone addressed this important point yet, but exactly what did Bible say about falling monitors?


They're a sign of the End Times. It's somewhere in Revelation