What is beauty?

[c4ts]

So what is beauty? And I don't mean, "what do you think is beautiful?" or "what is the definition of beauty?"

[Dymanic]

I don't think your question is meaningful given those constraints.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Dymanic
I don't think your question is meaningful given those constraints.

How so?

[Ceinwyn]

It's in the eye of the beholder.

I thought Shakespeare cleared this up 500 years ago.

[Lord Kenneth]

Either what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye, or what they find (in terms of members of the same species) attractive.

[ScottDYelich]

can we ever define anything exactly... I think another thread stated...

words are arbitrary... their meanings are fluid.

but in the end, the meaning of beauty is wholly determined by the entity or entities using the term.

to say what beauty is, I would have to use other words... and those words would be up to the same question regarding their definition.

I would say beauty is "effortlessness (harmony)"... but you didn't ask me, so I won't answer.

Scott

[Roadtoad]

A nice starting point is a 36DD...

[Beleth]

Originally posted by c4ts
So what is beauty? And I don't mean, "what do you think is beautiful?" or "what is the definition of beauty?" How are the questions "What is beauty?" and "What is the definition of beauty?" different? What do you mean by the former that you don't mean by the latter?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Beleth
How are the questions "What is beauty?" and "What is the definition of beauty?" different? What do you mean by the former that you don't mean by the latter?

To define beauty means heading straight for the dictionary to some people. I just wanted to avoid that situation, because then it's just semantics. Clear definition isn't the same as meaning. To clearly define beauty is really just to say something precise about it that is true when applied to its meaning.

[Shroud of Akron]

the answer is 42.

[Beleth]

Originally posted by c4ts
To clearly define beauty is really just to say something precise about it that is true when applied to its meaning. That's what I was hoping you would say! Here, then, are my thoughts on and my definition of beauty:

Beauty can change with the times. Big Reubenesque women were considered beautiful when Reubens painted them; now smaller, more athletic women are considered more beautiful.

Beauty can be man-made (artwork) or be natural and be destroyed by man's modifications (the side of a snow-covered mountain with ski tracks all over it).

The best definition I can come up with for beauty is "that which is difficult to achieve." Large women were considered beautiful in Reubens' time because there weren't that many of them; these days, having a well-toned, athletic body is more difficult to achieve, so bodies like that are considered beautiful.

A pristine snow-covered mountain is more beautiful than one with ski tracks all over it because it's easier to put ski tracks on a mountainside than it is to take them off.

Pictures from the Hubble telescobe are beautiful because they were difficult to obtain. While moonlight is considered beautiful, the Moon itself isn't considered very beautiful because it's not difficult to observe.

That's my definition. I welcome the chance to refine it.

[Dymanic]

This is so much like the question, "What is Quality?" posed in the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence.

I haven't read that book in a really long time, but I remember that it really messed with my head. Seems like the only answer I ever came up with is: "Ain't no such thing". (Which is not a nice place to be.) I'm afraid your question may lead to the same place.

What I meant by my earlier comment is that beauty can have no objective meaning, yet you specified that subjective meanings for it were not allowed.

Beauty is making somebody else happy and feel good about themselves when you really feel like a pile of dung yourself but you still make them feel they are the most wonderful person alive.

Beauty is seeing the person for who they are and not what the packaging shows.

Beauty is seeing there is some good in some bad people and encouraging them to bring it out.

Beauty is making somebody smile or laugh.

There see you are all beautiful to me :D

[Akots]

Originally posted by c4ts
So what is beauty? And I don't mean, "what do you think is beautiful?" or "what is the definition of beauty?"

Highly overrated.

Obviously in the eye of the beholder. I get people shaking their heads when I explain what I consider beautiful. In a physical sense, beauty rarely stands alone. A pretty face with a cigarette in it is no longer pretty.

The most beautiful of women that I have met seem less so when they open their mouths and their brains or lack there of show through. Those who give me an instant chub would be deemed far from beautiful in the generic sense.

I know people that are shallow. They refuse to see the qualities that are packaged inside and only look at the wrappings. Hence the meaning of the word 'shallow'.

[Skeptical Greg]

If you are a hot, young wart hog chick, this is beautiful...


http://www.sfzoo.org/generated/animals/48/wart_hog1.jpg

;)

[J3K]

I think of beauty as something more of personal preference(relating to looks of the opposite/same sex.) For me, it is a combination of looks and the kind of person someone is overall. When I am just going after looks, i go with things like pretty, hott, gourgous(spelling?) or something like that. If I say someone is beautiful, it has A LOT more meaning behind it because it's based off of the person as a whole, rather than just physical appearance. My girlfriend does this same thing, only difference is she uses the word sexy instead of beautiful.

Beauty is truth, truth beauty. Life itself is at fault for failing to be either beautiful or true.

[SpaceLord]

Originally posted by sundog
Beauty is truth, truth beauty. Life itself is at fault for failing to be either beautiful or true.

The complete quote is:

Beauty is truth, truth beauty. That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Ode on a Grecian Urn by Keats

[neutrino_cannon]

How does this work:

Beauty is what appeals to the organs of sight, or more acuratley, that big fatty mass behind them.

[Hellcat]

Beauty is a smile, holding your newborn baby in your arms and receiving their first pasta picture, that is beauty.

[Julia]

This is almost like a trick question. It doesn't have an incorrect
answer, and has multiple meanings to multiple people. For me,
it is a lot like class. You just know it when you see, hear, or feel
it, but it is difficult to define without the use of individual examples.

[stamenflicker]

This is almost like a trick question. It doesn't have an incorrect answer and has multiple meanings to multiple people. For me,
it is a lot like class. You just know it when you see, hear, or feel
it, but it is difficult to define without the use of individual examples.

I accept this defition, but surely we could argue that beauty thus does not exist. It certainly cannot exist to the pure materialist. It seems a bit to relative a concept. So, if we agree it doesn't exist, would we agree that it is rendered meaningless?

Flick

[Julia]

For several years I had a goat named Narley. She was an elderly, half blind, artheritic old goat. She was really quite bonded
with me. When I looked at her, I thought she was beautiful. I
loved the old creature.
Now, my sister is wealthy. Material things are important to her.
She called me once after having just bought a new Porshe. She
said she couldn't get over how beautiful it was.
I guess that is an example of what I meant in my earlier post.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Hellcat
Beauty is a smile, holding your newborn baby in your arms and receiving their first pasta picture, that is beauty.
Originally posted by neutrino_cannon
Beauty is what appeals to the organs of sight, or more acuratley, that big fatty mass behind them.

That's not beauty, that's different examples of beauty. Why are they beautiful? What makes them appealing? If people can't agree whether or not certain things are beautiful, does that mean beauty is the opinion, or is it something ascribed to the opinion?

Originally posted by SpaceLord


The complete quote is:

Beauty is truth, truth beauty. That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Ode on a Grecian Urn by Keats

Err, we know. Man, you are so unhip it's a wonder your bum doesn't fall off. :D

I'm quoting Adams, not Keats. As in Douglas. :cool:

Beauty is subjective to each individual therefore cannot be defined accurately as somebody will always argue against your definition.

[AmateurScientist]

Actually, there is a recent school of thought arising from serious academic research with human subjects which may support the notion that some beauty is in fact innate, and thus not so subjective after all. For instance, there have been studies done at universities during which subjects from various cultures, of various ages, and of various backgrounds tended to pick the same faces--not necessarily of their own race or ethnicity--as ones depicting beauty. The researchers concluded that symmetry in the vertical plane--from left to right--was the single most important factor in determining whether a face is attractive or not, and the degree to which it is attractive. The most beautiful faces tend to be the most symmetrical. Also, the most generic features--those tending towards a norm in size and distance from other features--were universally found to be the most beautiful.

This suggests perhaps that gentle patterns, without abrupt changes, are innately beautiful to humans. It would not be contrary to what we already know about the human brain--that it tends to seek or recognize patterns in any given stimulus, even one which is truly random or chaotic.

Knowing this information, facial images generated completely from scratch, without basing them on any actual human faces, can be created which are reliably found to be beautiful by their intended audiences. We can see an example of this in the computer generated face of Aki in the animated movie feature "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within," or many other animated features, for instance.

Perhaps beauty isn't so subjective after all, at least when it comes to faces.

AS

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
Actually, there is a recent school of thought arising from serious academic research with human subjects which may support the notion that some beauty is in fact innate, and thus not so subjective after all. For instance, there have been studies done at universities during which subjects from various cultures, of various ages, and of various backgrounds tended to pick the same faces--not necessarily of their own race or ethnicity--as ones depicting beauty. The researchers concluded that symmetry in the vertical plane--from left to right--was the single most important factor in determining whether a face is attractive or not, and the degree to which it is attractive. The most beautiful faces tend to be the most symmetrical. Also, the most generic features--those tending towards a norm in size and distance from other features--were universally found to be the most beautiful.

This suggests perhaps that gentle patterns, without abrupt changes, are innately beautiful to humans. It would not be contrary to what we already know about the human brain--that it tends to seek or recognize patterns in any given stimulus, even one which is truly random or chaotic.

Knowing this information, facial images generated completely from scratch, without basing them on any actual human faces, can be created which are reliably found to be beautiful by their intended audiences. We can see an example of this in the computer generated face of Aki in the animated movie feature "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within," or many other animated features, for instance.

Perhaps beauty isn't so subjective after all, at least when it comes to faces.

AS

I can agree on the symmetry aspect and also add that people do have a tendency to veer towards what they feel is beauty which also hold some aspect of their own features or personal taste.

But again that is subjective to that individual surely?

Did everyone of the test group agree to the same thing?

Do you have a link to this particular study?

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Biker Babe


Do you have a link to this particular study?

Here's one which mentions some studies briefly which reached different conclusions, but it has some decent discussion about faces and beauty and the possible links to mathematics, symmetry and proportion.

Making Sense of Beauty (http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/beauty.html)

It's not really the one I saw on a television documentary, but it's a start if you are interested.

AS

[c4ts]

What about the golden fifth?