Aren't you afraid to die?

[1inChrist]

Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

[Z]

This is one of your most ridiculous posts yet.

1inC, let me first start by explaining that I am not an Atheist, but a Wiccan.

That being said -

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

An Atheist doesn't believe in a Lake of Fire, Satan, or any of the rest of this tripe; and you can't be scared in what you don't believe in. Might as well wonder why folks aren't scared of the troll under the bridge, or the monster under the bed.

For my own part, Wicca teaches that Deity loves all Her creations, and that there is no such thing as 'eternal torment'. Sin is dealt with through karma and resurrection; in other words, you are continually given chances to straighten out the karmic balance.

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

It wouldn't be 'lonely' at all - You would not be feeling anything, nor thinking anything, nor experiencing anything. You simply would not be. Period. Why fear that? You live, you die, and that's it. You won't have a memory of life to compare your current state with; you won't be able to think, "Gee, being non-existent sucks." You just won't be at all. That's hardly something to fear - rather, it's a great motivator to enjoy life to the fullest, and make your mark on the world as best you may - for when you are gone, all that remains is what the world remembers of you.

Apparently, YOU are scared to die - so scared that you must embrace a faith proven time and again to be based on lies and mis-interpretations on the off-chance there might be an afterlife. But, to each their own faith. Why do YOU care if anyone here is afraid to die? What does it matter to YOU if no one here accepts your version of the events of Yeshua ben-Yosef's life?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

Your two conclusions are contradictory - is that intentional?? I am quite happy in the belief that my death is the end, that there will be nothing more afterwards, it is a great motivator to make the most of the time prior to my demise.

[MalvernHills]

Umm... no.

Thread ends here. I declare myself the winner. :)

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
This is one of your most ridiculous posts yet.

1inC, let me first start by explaining that I am not an Atheist, but a Wiccan.

This is worse. You are messing with the forces of Satan and are in DANGER. Please stop.

An Atheist doesn't believe in a Lake of Fire, Satan, or any of the rest of this tripe; and you can't be scared in what you don't believe in.

Some atheists know the Lake of Fire exists but knowingly reject His Sacrifice to the eternal Flame.

Might as well wonder why folks aren't scared of the troll under the bridge, or the monster under the bed.

Would you people STOP calling me a troll. I'm getting sick of it.

For my own part, Wicca teaches that Deity loves all Her creations, and that there is no such thing as 'eternal torment'. Sin is dealt with through karma and resurrection; in other words, you are continually given chances to straighten out the karmic balance.

But you are worshipping a false god. His Word clearly states that no other gods shall come before Him.

It wouldn't be 'lonely' at all - You would not be feeling anything, nor thinking anything, nor experiencing anything. You simply would not be. Period. Why fear that? You live, you die, and that's it. You won't have a memory of life to compare your current state with; you won't be able to think, "Gee, being non-existent sucks." You just won't be at all. That's hardly something to fear - rather, it's a great motivator to enjoy life to the fullest, and make your mark on the world as best you may - for when you are gone, all that remains is what the world remembers of you.

But there are MILLIONS of Hellish NDE's. This is proof that there is life after death. Also there are more Hellish NDE's than Heavenly. Why do you not hear of the Hellish one's? Because New Agers have an agenda and don't want you to know the Truth that Hell exists.

Apparently, YOU are scared to die

No I am not. I know I am going to Heaven when I die.

so scared that you must embrace a faith proven time and again to be based on lies and mis-interpretations on the off-chance there might be an afterlife. But, to each their own faith. Why do YOU care if anyone here is afraid to die? What does it matter to YOU if no one here accepts your version of the events of Yeshua ben-Yosef's life? [/B]

What lies? There are no lies. God does not lie.

[The Don]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!
Nope, because it doesn't exist
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?
I don't want to die but just because I rather enjoy living. Once I'm dead I won't be lonely because there won't be a "me" to be lonely.

[1inChrist]

Nope, because it doesn't exist

Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.
Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.
Explain the atheist doctor who was terrified when his patients would be revived screaming ''I'm in HELL!!!!''

I don't want to die but just because I rather enjoy living. Once I'm dead I won't be lonely because there won't be a "me" to be lonely.

That's what you think. The Lord sheds a tear for the horror you will face when you die.

[The Don]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.
Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.
Explain the atheist doctor who was terrified when his patients would be revived screaming ''I'm in HELL!!!!''
Provide non-anecdotal evidence for OBE or NDE (as opposed to people in extremis merely having dreams/hallucinations/whatever)

How far below ground is Hell ? Are you aware of all the cavers and miners who have descended far lower than sewers and have not heard screams. You have of course read about Project Mohole and the search for the Mohorovicic discontinuity ?

Provide evidence for this alleged doctor and this case. If I were to say I was in China would you believe me ? (clue - perhaps I could be fibbing or mistaken)
Originally posted by 1inChrist
That's what you think. The Lord sheds a tear for the horror you will face when you die.
Prove it

[Z]

Oh, this post is RICH! :D

Originally posted by 1inChrist
This is worse. You are messing with the forces of Satan and are in DANGER. Please stop.

There is no Satan. Only those who follow Judaic/Christian teachings can believe in Satan. Of course, since your beliefs insist that I am under Satan's influence, nothing I tell you can convince you otherwise. But for me, belief in Satan is no more true than belief in Loki. I can just as easily claim that you are being Tricked by the Norse God of Tricksters, but that makes it no more true.

It's moot to discuss it, of course.

Some atheists know the Lake of Fire exists but knowingly reject His Sacrifice to the eternal Flame.

Actually, atheists don't believe in the entire stchick, so you'd be wrong on this statement.

And those people who DO believe in the Lake of Fire don't KNOW it - knowledge and belief are two different things, my friend.

Would you people STOP calling me a troll. I'm getting sick of it.

Can you read? I was discussing other mythological boogey-men. Was I also calling you a monster? No. I was discussing the trolls that live under bridges and collect goats as they cross, etc.

But, if the shoe fits... :D

But you are worshipping a false god. His Word clearly states that no other gods shall come before Him.

Actually, several early texts indicated that Judaic culture believed in several deities. The modern God you worship is a combination of features from the gods of Il/El and the southern god YHWH. YHWH supplanted the El/Il of the Old Testament at some point, but carried many features of that God.

When He requires that no other gods shall come before Him, He is in fact claiming first-right: that is, he does not deny the existence of other Gods, but he has claimed the Judaic people as his own, and that they are to pay first respects to him. In fact, this did not deny them the right to respect other gods at all; they merely had to pay the first, biggest, and best tribute to Him, and smaller, secondary tributes to other Gods.

And, just for the record, I worship Deity. Deity is the One that is All. Deity is beyond petty names and labels. Deity presents itself to each believer as best suits the circumstances.

But there are MILLIONS of Hellish NDE's. This is proof that there is life after death. Also there are more Hellish NDE's than Heavenly. Why do you not hear of the Hellish one's? Because New Agers have an agenda and don't want you to know the Truth that Hell exists.

You have some proof, I presume? The general record shows that most NDE's are not hellish at all, except in circumstances of mental instability and suicide attempts. I wish Interesting Ian were here - he's the resident expert on NDE/OBE (but not much else sometimes :D ). BTW - how do New Agers - who exert almost NO political power anywhere on Earth - suppress stories of NDE's? The world is largely still the property of the Judeo-Christian-Islam Triad - if anyone is 'suppressing' these NDE's of yours, it's them.

No I am not. I know I am going to Heaven when I die.

Good for you! You're welcome to it.

What lies? There are no lies. God does not lie.

God does not lie (possibly), but Man does; and the Bible is written by Man.

[Darat]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

How is someone a " knowingly " or " unknowingly " atheist? What is the difference?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.
Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.
Explain the atheist doctor who was terrified when his patients would be revived screaming ''I'm in HELL!!!!''


please provide non-anecdotal evidence that:
a) They exist at all beyond a delusion
b) That hell / heaven / god and satan exists
c) That a and b are connected

Then we start to refute what you say - at the moment we have a statement that "Pink invisible unicorns exist" and nothing more.

[AWPrime]

Then we start to refute what you say - at the moment we have a statement that "Pink invisible unicorns exist" and nothing more.

I make soup of them.:D



Seriously, as an atheist I have no problem with oblivion after death. Especialy I leave a nice legacy.

[Dragonrock]

I see that in this thread 1-inch-Christ is showing his mastery of the "am not/are too" style of debate.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by AWPrime
I make soup of them.:D


Cool - what colour do invisible pink unicorns turn when you put them in a liquidiser?

[HarryKeogh]

mineworkers are hearing screams from Hell?

Do you realize if the Earth were an apple our deepest mine (or any digging) would yet to have broken the skin.

And were hearing the screams from Hell? I doubt voices can carry that far especially since we all know Satan is much closer to the core of Earth.

duh!

(my 1st and last response to one of this guy's posts because frankly I think he's just having a fun time jerking our chain)

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some atheists know the Lake of Fire exists but knowingly reject His Sacrifice to the eternal Flame.


I realize there's no point in telling you anything, since you've already decided what you think atheists believe, but here it is anyway:

Atheism is not a choice. Nobody sits down and says "I want to be an atheist!" Atheism is what you get when you simply can't believe in the religions. Belief itself, for thinking people, is not a choice. They don't look at the sky and say "I believe it's blue!" They look at the sky and their brains determine that it is blue. It's not an opinion question, and the belief is not controlled or chosen by the thinker. They are convinced because their minds weigh the evidence for them. With more complicated issues that can't be decided solely on the basis of the senses, the thinker thinks. But after he has all his thoughts, his mind still presents him with a conclusion. He believes the conclusion is correct to the degree that his mind accepts the evidence and thoughts. It's still not a choice.

There are no atheists who believe in Hell and Satan and Lakes of Fire. If they believed in those things, they wouldn't be atheists. They'd be Christians, believing in the Christian religion. Maybe deliberately not following the commandments, but still believing in it. You have to believe in God and Jesus in order to reject them. Such people would be anti-theists, not atheists.

[Ladewig]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!



An infinite punishment for a finite sin. As a humanist, I believe that "let the punishment fit the crime" is a rational approach to justice.

After reading your other posts (e.g. Garden of Eden) one can only conclude that the God you describe seems irrational to the point of being psychotic.
.........................

Oh, and to answer your question - on the whole, no. I will admit that there are certain ways to die that I am afraid of, but the concept of death does not frighten me.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

No I am not. I know I am going to Heaven when I die.
Then you don't believe you are going to die. You think you are going to another place (Heaven) and continue living. The thought of actual death terrifies you so much that you invest a lot of time and energy in maintaining a complex story that lets you deny that you will die.

Christians like you are total whining cowards about real death.

[AWPrime]

Originally posted by Stitch
Cool - what colour do invisible pink unicorns turn when you put them in a liquidiser?


Bright pink, because the cloaking skin/fur is shredded/gone.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

That would be atheists in the christian culture or others who have heard about Christianity.

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Of course they are not. They don't believe in it. Only Christians believe in HeII. There may be some Christians who lead a sinful life who are fearing HeII.

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Would that be atheists who never heard of Christianity? No, because then they cannot reject it. Rejection is a deliberate act, so "unknowingly reject" is without meaning in theis context.

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

That there is nothing after death is what all atheists assume. How will it be lonely? It will be the same as not being born. Were you lonely before you were born?

You are obviously unable to even imagine what others believe.

Hans

[Stitch]

Originally posted by AWPrime
Bright pink, because the cloaking skin/fur is shredded/gone.

Rats - there goes another theory, I was hoping they would be orange, it would have been far more interesting. :)

[Flo]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?


and how would you know anything without feeling anything ? :rolleyes:


(this guy is either stupid to an amazing magnitude, a troll, or on a mission to caricature the stupidest of the stupidest fundamentalists ... but he's definitely overdoing it ! )

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Flo
and how would you know anything without feeling anything ? :rolleyes:


(this guy is either stupid to an amazing magnitude, a troll, or on a mission to caricature the stupidest of the stupidest fundamentalists ... but he's definitely overdoing it ! )

Well, it is tricky trying to imagine what it feels like to not exist. Remember how it felt before you were conceived? Simply awful. I'm still trying to forget.

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

Oh, look. The big, fat lying liar is back. What has been keeping you? Were you at a convention to improve your skills on how to lie for Jesus?

[wollery]

This may come across as a bit of a weird statement, but it just occured to me that 1inC seems to me to be failing the Turing test! His responses are almost all parrot-like, but the real giveaway was when zaayrdragon mentioned the "troll under the bridge" 1inC responds by saying, "Would you people STOP calling me a troll. I'm getting sick of it."

Now if that isn't an automated response to a keyword then I'm a small furry animal from Alpha Centauri!! ;)

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around--

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

If I'm not alive, then I'm not feeling anything, loneliness or otherwise.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

Troll feeding time again...
:rolleyes:

NoneinChrist is on record, right here in this very forum, as saying that the way to achieve salvation is merely to repent before God, NOT to accept Jesus as one's savior.

When questioned on this point, and confronted with the exact words from John 3:16, he again rejected Christ, and disagreed with the literal words of the Bible...he was quite clear that he did not believe that Christ was the Savior, and instead started spouting nonsense about Jesus and God being the same person.

Then he ran away from another thread when it was clear that he didn't even know the story of the Garden...he insisted that Adam Eve came before anyone else...including Lilith...
:rolleyes:

All of a sudden, here he is again, pointing fingers at others, and accusing them of rejecting Christ, even though he has done the same.

Does anyone here really need anymore evidence that this is a poorly done imitation of a fundy Xtian, and therefor a troll not worth the time it takes to argue with as though he were serious?

If so, knock yoursleves out, you will be feeding the troll knowingly.

[richardm]

If anyone should be terrified of death, it should be the likes of 1inChrist.

They believe in all the hellfire malarky, and also in a vengeful God. If they put one foot wrong, it's straight off to the flaming brimstone.

I'd be scared witless.

Luckily, I don't believe in any of it, so all I have to be concerned about is the mode of my dying. After that, it's nothing to worry about.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by crimresearch
Troll feeding time again...


If so, knock yoursleves out, you will be feeding the troll knowingly.

Yeah, I know. Do Not Feed The Troll. But gee, 1inC's threads end up being so much fun.

[Ipecac]

Not scared in the least that I will end up in hell. The place doesn't exist.

I am not particularly happy about my pending non-existence. Something in my brain makes it a little hard for me to conceive of no longer existing. (Whenever I think of it, I always imagine suffocating.) However, I know that's what's going to happen and it happens to everyone, so I can deal with it.

Better to deal with reality than to make crap up just to feel better.

[The GM]

1inC,
As a non Christian troll, aren't you afraid of judgement? After all, you've single handedly mauled the Christian faith, you offer false hope to a man with a tumor and another with cancer, you knowingly portray an entire culture in a false light for your own devious aims.

You should be ashamed.

I will offer this to the Christians who frequent this forum, it doesn't seem that anyone is buying this guy's act anymore. I don't honestly think that anyone here sees ya'll in the light that this no talent ass clown is trying to portray.

Grow up, 1inC. You're acting more retarded than a bronze medal winner at the Special Olympics.

[Oleron]

1inC cracks me up - we should collect his posts into a book and make a fortune! (the bible?)

He has maintained his persona of wild-eyed, fundy hick for a good while now. Surely the mask will slip soon.

My guess is that he's really a 16 year old shop assistant, with a Buffy fixation.

Mind you if he's the real thing, I'd love to go to his church on Sundays! Although they can't all be like him, can they?

:D

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Yeah, I know. Do Not Feed The Troll. But gee, 1inC's threads end up being so much fun.

It might actually be worthwhile to engage a real believer in a discussion over the difference between the Christian concept of an afterlife, and the atheist concept of the Big Sleep.

But NoneinChrist is playing the knee jerk game where he comes here and says 'Godooogabooogayaddahyaddah...'
And then he sits back and watches the wound up skeptics run through the predictable responses.
He is playing JREF like it was a video game.

I've run across Christian fundamentalists of every stripe in my life, and heard all of their rhetoric, and this guy is no Christian of any kind.

[The GM]

Originally posted by Oleron
Although they can't all be like him, can they?

:D

I grew up in the fundie church. None of them are like him. He's a characiture.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Ipecac
I am not particularly happy about my pending non-existence.

I feel the same way, but then I realize that death is the ultimate way to shaft Sallie Mae and the Visa Corporation. My epitaph shall be "Just try and get my money now, I dare ya! Mwah hah hah!"

There's always a bright side, if you owe enough money.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by crimresearch
It might actually be worthwhile to engage a real believer in a discussion over the difference between the Christian concept of an afterlife, and the atheist concept of the Big Sleep.


I've run across Christian fundamentalists of every stripe in my life, and heard all of their rhetoric, and this guy is no Christian of any kind.

I did have this discussion recently. My grandmother died in August and I had a nice talk with my mom's former minister. She came to do the service, even though she's retired now. The problem was, eventually I come up against the brick wall called "faith". She has faith in an afterlife, even without any evidence one exists. And that's fine.

I think there is a possibilty 1inC really is a fundamentalist Christian. But up against the rationalitity of this board, he is getting wilder and wilder with his claims. He's essentially throwing a religious temper tantrum.

[richardm]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
What lies? There are no lies. God does not lie.

Hohoho! Where have you been?

e.g.
2 Thessalonians, Chapter 2, verses 11-12

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


There's a fair few others. But since you said "God does not lie", one will suffice.

[Skeptical Greg]

So saaaaaaaaaaaaad...:v:

We have nothing worthwhile to discuss...

Sorry, I can't think of anything either.. Times have been slow before.. It will pass...


P.S.

1inC, why don't you go dip your line at RR ?

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:
Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

Well, sure I'm scared to die. So are christians. Draw a gun on an atheist or a christian, and you will find them equally standing in a puddle of their own urine.

It does not necessarily follow that I should believe some fairy-story that tells I will not die. But if you must follow your delusions, then I refer you to Ecclesiastes 9:5:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

As for being lonely after death, I think you need to work on a better understanding the idea of personal non-existence, even if you do not accept its reality. I don't expect to be lonely, anesthetic, or any other sensation. I expect not to be anything at all.

[Jas]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Some atheists know the Lake of Fire exists but knowingly reject His Sacrifice to the eternal Flame.


This is one of my favourites, out of all the Xtian 'facts' that I hear.

Apparently, I KNOW that there's a lake of fire, and I KNOW that there is this almighty creator being who could squish me like a bug (or smite me, as this seems to be the preferred method), yet, knowing this, I CHOOSE to say, "eff you!"

Clearly, one of the marks of an atheist is having no survival instinct whatsoever.

[TruthSeeker]

I have a great deal of work to do today, so in the interest of efficient time management, I declare myself the winner of this debate.

Argument by dayplanner

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

No, and no. It's just like the boogey-man.

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?
Actually, you contradicted yourself, as being lonely isn't "not feeling anything"

And I'd prefer there not being anything. When my life ends, I want it to end, not go to crazy afterlife #493.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Aren't you afraid that Freddy Krueger will come and kill you in your sleep? Shouldn't you be subsisting on coffee and No-Doz so that you don't fall asleep and end up in his boiler room?

No, you say? Freddy Krueger isn't real? Now you know why I have no fear of hell.

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

While a pleasant afterlife might be nice, wishing something to be true does not make it true. And I refuse to spend my life chasing a fairy tale.

[c4ts]

I don't think I'd care if I were dead. However, I rather enjoy my life, so I don't feel like there's any rush to die.

[Anathema]

Originally posted by c4ts
I don't think I'd care if I were dead. However, I rather enjoy my life, so I don't feel like there's any rush to die. You have no chance to survive make your time.

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I have a great deal of work to do today, so in the interest of efficient time management, I declare myself the winner of this debate.

Argument by dayplanner

I declare TruthSeeker the winner of this debate.

Argument by Preemption.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!


"They say there is no rest for the wicked ones
Dear God what have we done
There is no rest for the wicked ones
Dear God what is this evil that we've done"
- No Rest; New Model Army

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?


No, I am not afraid of sleeping - and not dreaming - either.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
No, I am not afraid of sleeping - and not dreaming - either.


Belief in God is like needing a night light. You're not afraid of the dark, but 1inC is.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by Diogenes
P.S.

1inC, why don't you go dip your line at RR ?


So, that even a couple of fundies can tell him that he's a bit ... out there? Good idea!

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by alfaniner
I declare TruthSeeker the winner of this debate.

Argument by Preemption.


Thank you.


1inC is a slave to his own fears. It's very sad.

[Anathema]

1inchChrist is not sincere in any way. It's a put-on. It's contrived, button-pushing performance art...nothing more.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

What I have never been quite able to understand is why you theists have trouble with the concept of not believing in your god? If I don't believe in one of your gods (i.e. Jesus, Jehova, whatever), then why would I believe in any of your other gods (i.e. Satan, Stan, Lucifer, whatever)?

Are you afraid of Vampires? Are you afraid they are going to sneak into your room and painfully drain you of blood?

Are you afraid of werewolves? Are you afraid they are going to catch you and tear you limb from limb?

Are you afraid of Thor? Are you afraid that because you didn't live a manly life of looting, wenching and killing that you will not be able to enjoy the pleasures of Valhalla?

Are you afraid of zombie masters? Are you afraid of being resurrected to walk this earth forever as a shambling, decaying creature, neither alive nor dead?

In answer to your question, in case you haven't devined it for yourself, no, I am not afraid of any imaginary place or any imaginary beings and quite frankly, I rarely think about it, except on those occasions that theists desire to harrangue about it because they fear an imaginary punishment by an imaginary being.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by The GM
1inC,
As a non Christian troll, aren't you afraid of judgement? After all, you've single handedly mauled the Christian faith, you offer false hope to a man with a tumor and another with cancer, you knowingly portray an entire culture in a false light for your own devious aims.

Have no fear, the man with the tumor has no false hopes. He is relying strongly on his doctors and their advise, as well as his wife and her knowledge and ability to get information on his condition. ;)

Originally posted by The GM
You should be ashamed.

I will offer this to the Christians who frequent this forum, it doesn't seem that anyone is buying this guy's act anymore. I don't honestly think that anyone here sees ya'll in the light that this no talent ass clown is trying to portray.

Grow up, 1inC. You're acting more retarded than a bronze medal winner at the Special Olympics.

Please don't insult the developmentally disabled because you don't like this fool. The developmentally disabled have enough to deal with in this world without more people throwing insults at them because of something they have no control over and would change in a heartbeat if they could.

[uruk]

And were hearing the screams from Hell? I doubt voices can carry that far especially since we all know Satan is much closer to the core of Earth.

I noticed in that recording of the screams of hell from the link 1inC posted, that hell had an awsome P.A. system. There was a voice amplified over the din. I wonder what it was saying? maybe: "And back to back musical marathons of Barry Manilow and the Mahattan Transfer!".....yep......that would be hell for me.......

[uruk]

Come to think of it, hell for me would be to be stuck in heaven for an eternity with 1inC.

[The GM]

Originally posted by Chanileslie
Have no fear, the man with the tumor has no false hopes. He is relying strongly on his doctors and their advise, as well as his wife and her knowledge and ability to get information on his condition. ;)



Please don't insult the developmentally disabled because you don't like this fool. The developmentally disabled have enough to deal with in this world without more people throwing insults at them because of something they have no control over and would change in a heartbeat if they could.

Good on point number one.

Agreed on point number two. *sigh*
I let this guy get under my skin. I had no right to get nasty. My apologies to anyone I offended.

[AWPrime]

Wild theory:

1inC = Randi

Motive -> spicing up the forum
Evidence -> no one could be that ######.

[roger]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I have a great deal of work to do today, so in the interest of efficient time management, I declare myself the winner of this debate.

No, wait, I like Roger, so he is the winner Argument by misquote.

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by AWPrime
Wild theory:

1inC = Randi

Motive -> spicing up the forum
Evidence -> no one could be that ######.

Somehow, Randi doesn't strike me as being that particular brand of joker. I certainly wouldn't put it past David Mikkelson of "Snopes" however.

And if you think no one could be that X (for any X), then you haven't browsed the 'net for as long as I have.

[Starrman]

Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

Tell me, 1IC - what did it feel like for you in the year 1217? How about 150 years ago? Were you lonely then?

I imagine being dead feels about the same. All the more reason for me to stay alive as long as possible.

[agnostic_god]

Originally posted by AWPrime
Wild theory:

1inC = Randi

Motive -> spicing up the forum
Evidence -> no one could be that ######.

The same thought crossed my mind.

[alfaniner]

Maybe they're just gathering data for the JREF Forum Awards at TAM III.

You know -- "And the award for poster with the most serious replies to an obvious sock puppet goes to..."

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by roger
Argument by misquote.

While I do like you, Roger, I am going to go out on a limb here and nominate 1inC as winner. He actually has us coming up with conspiracy theories involving Ranid posing as a Christian fundamentalist. Well done, my love.

[Anathema]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Maybe they're just gathering data for the JREF Forum Awards at TAM III.

You know -- "And the award for poster with the most serious replies to an obvious sock puppet goes to..."

...and a9 gets the award for "Most Efficient Threadkilling Post"

:D

[evildave]

Afraid to die? Being born is the #1 cause of dying, all in all.

What happens after I die? Probably more of what happened before I was born.

All this whiney Christian supremacist 'hellfire' talk is just so much superstitious bull. You may as well tell me Santa won't be bringing me any presents for not being retarded enough to fall for such fairy tales. Or maybe santa will creep into my house with a knife?

Watch out! There are unsubstantiated supernatural "consequences" for not believing in the same idiotic garbage I do! You better live in fear all your life and give men power over yourself for wearing a dress and standing behind a pulpit and shouting at you!

What a crock.

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by Anathema
...and a9 gets the award for "Most Efficient Threadkilling Post"

:D

I've had a lot of (unintentional) practice, it seems. :)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Anathema
You have no chance to survive make your time.

You are on the way to destruction!

[Seismosaurus]

I'm certainly afraid to die - there'll be no more me after that, which is a pretty horrific thought! Of course I won't care then, because there won't be a me to care, but there's a me now, and the idea is pretty horrible to me.

But so what? No matter how scary death might be, there's no alternative so I just have to lump it.

[cbish]

1 in Christ

Evil...........where did it come from?


Evil..........origin???

If God can do no evil, where did evil come from?

[monkboon]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!


No more than I am afraid that Santa will bring me lumps of coal this year.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by cbish
1 in Christ

Evil...........where did it come from?
Evil..........origin???

If God can do no evil, where did evil come from?

He can't hear you...

NoneinChrist, much like Elvis, has left the forum...again.

[cajela]

Damn, this whole thing happened while I was asleep or working.
I wanted to win. Can I go on the winners roster?

Not afraid of death, though dying seems potentially quite nasty.

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Atheist who knowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared of the fact that you will be banished to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan and his angels? Tormented day and night forever and ever. There shall be NO rest for the wicked!

Atheists who hate god aren't really atheists now, are they? ;)

Atheists who unknowingly reject Christ:

Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything?

How would you know after you were gone? You'd be GONE, and therefore wouldn't feel 'not alive'.

What are my views on mortality?

From my experience of the universe, everything ends. There just wouldn't be enough room in the universe if everyone went on in one form or another. So I accept it as a natural end to things, and as a practical limitation on the availability of existence.

Now you may ask, what does it all mean? I don't have the answer to that. We all make our own meaning. My meaning is living as good and noble and interesting a life as I am able. Now maybe, just maybe there's something more to this existence than just living and dying. But if there is, I seriously doubt (and all respect to the religious persons on this board) that it has anything to do with any religions that man has invented. IMHO.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by cajela
Damn, this whole thing happened while I was asleep or working.
I wanted to win. Can I go on the winners roster?

Not afraid of death, though dying seems potentially quite nasty.


The roster no longer exists.

As the former keeper of the list, I declare you the winner

Argument by letting go of the list is hard.

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
But there are MILLIONS of Hellish NDE's. This is proof that there is life after death. Also there are more Hellish NDE's than Heavenly.

Any evidence for that? Got any sources? WWN or the Enquirer don't count.

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.
.

I'm almost sorry that I gave you that idea. Now you're parroting it like a... well a parrot. :D

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh

(my 1st and last response to one of this guy's posts because frankly I think he's just having a fun time jerking our chain)

Probably, but he's at least entertaining at it.

[monkboon]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.


Never had one. All other claims are anecdotal, untestable and of no value to my world view.

However, research suggests that the human brain has the capacity to respond to stress in ways that can be mistaken for any number of phenomena, including OBEs, NDEs, alien abductions, recovered memories, etc.

Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.

The really interesting thing about sewers (or any smooth-walled, irregularly shaped environment), is that sounds can come from just about anywhere, yet they will seem to have come from just about everywhere. Some may consider the sewers to be Hell, but that's hardly a sound basis for a system of belief.

Explain the atheist doctor who was terrified when his patients would be revived screaming ''I'm in HELL!!!!''

Let's assume for a moment that this didn't come from Weekly World News. "I'm in hell" as a statement can mean any number of things, most notable being "I'm in great pain." Being terrified at hearing this is presumably a natural reaction to someone dedicated to preventing or relieving pain and suffering. The fact that said doctor was an atheist is irrelevant.

------------------------------------------

Of course, by writing all of this, I'm not saying that I inany way believe that these events have actually happened, merely that there's more than one explanation than 1inChrists. I prefer one that doesn't require invoking mysticism.

Nope, still not afraid.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by wollery
This may come across as a bit of a weird statement, but it just occured to me that 1inC seems to me to be failing the Turing test! His responses are almost all parrot-like, but the real giveaway was when zaayrdragon mentioned the "troll under the bridge" 1inC responds by saying, "Would you people STOP calling me a troll. I'm getting sick of it."

Now if that isn't an automated response to a keyword then I'm a small furry animal from Alpha Centauri!! ;)

thank you for your insight! i was afraid 1 inch christ was a transhuman AI (a demented and terribly flawed transhuman, but it would explain the consistency). too bad, really. the singularity would have been fun. :o

[cajela]

Thanks, truthseeker. If I turn out to be god, you will go to heaven for being kind to newbies :)

Yay! I won! Go me!

(I still believe that nonparticipation is the way to win with 1"troll, but geeze it's fun to read all these threads.)

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by Chanileslie
Are you afraid of Thor? Are you afraid that because you didn't live a manly life of looting, wenching and killing that you will not be able to enjoy the pleasures of Valhalla?
[/B]
Damn! that is scary! I better get busy....where did I put my mail shirt & drinking horn...;)

[Jas]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf
Any evidence for that? Got any sources? WWN or the Enquirer don't count.

Damn. There go most of my sources.

BTW, "Batboy: The Musical" is currently playing in London. Apparently it's actually surprisingly good.

[joyrex]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
I'm certainly afraid to die - there'll be no more me after that, which is a pretty horrific thought! Of course I won't care then, because there won't be a me to care, but there's a me now, and the idea is pretty horrible to me.

But so what? No matter how scary death might be, there's no alternative so I just have to lump it. What do you think, could an endeavour to diminish one's ego (if that is even possible) result in getting rid of that fear?

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
Damn! that is scary! I better get busy....where did I put my mail shirt & drinking horn...;)

Yeah! Get to it! You have a quota to fill of raping, looting, pillaging and killing! I expect it done before supper! :D

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by joyrex
What do you think, could an endeavour to diminish one's ego (if that is even possible) result in getting rid of that fear?

I doubt it. Anyway, I wouldn't want my ego diminished. It's small enough as it is.

[Piscivore]

I have just decided that in the interests of everyone's self-esteem, everybody wins and gets a shiny ribbon.

Argument from politically correct school board.

[Marquis de Carabas]

[censored] you all. I win.

Argument from Rule 8.

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by joyrex
What do you think, could an endeavour to diminish one's ego (if that is even possible) result in getting rid of that fear?

I have always thought that this might work. You may notice that most religions have some sort of ego-reducing component to their doctrine and practice.

Do any atheists here think they might derive benefit from fasting, giving alms, etc.?

[Paul]

I'm late and I haven't participated and a wombat ate my homework. Can I still have a shiny ribbon?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Paul
I'm late and I haven't participated and a wombat ate my homework. Can I still have a shiny ribbon?

No, but you can win your choice of consolation prizes

1) Boot to the head

2) Having a rabid wolverine dropped into your trousers.

Both also come with a copy of our home game. Thanks for playing.


;)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by phildonnia
I have always thought that this might work. You may notice that most religions have some sort of ego-reducing component to their doctrine and practice.

Do any atheists here think they might derive benefit from fasting, giving alms, etc.?

I could stand to lose a few pounds, okay many more than a few. Fasting might accomplish that. Beyond that, nothing I can think of. Giving alms to me would be no differnet than giving to charity, which I do because I beleive in the charities cause, it has nothing to do with reducing my ego.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Giving alms to me would be no differnet than giving to charity, which I do because I beleive in the charities cause, it has nothing to do with reducing my ego.

But by giving to charity, you are being empathetic to the needs and sufferings of others. By doing so, you are acknowledging that you are not more important than they...which seems to be a reduction in ego if you're self-absorbed as most individuals are.

[Paul]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
No, but you can win your choice of consolation prizes

1) Boot to the head

2) Having a rabid wolverine dropped into your trousers.

Both also come with a copy of our home game. Thanks for playing.


;)


Yay! wolverines are cool, I win. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Paul
Yay! wolverines are cool, I win. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Argument by booby prize

(can I use booby in this context?)

[Paul]

huh...huh...you said booby...huh...huh

[Yaotl]

So do you think he gave up yet?

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by Jas
Damn. There go most of my sources.

BTW, "Batboy: The Musical" is currently playing in London. Apparently it's actually surprisingly good.

I knew Batboy would come up sometime. :D

SHRIEK!

[Cosmo]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf
I knew Batboy would come up sometime. :D

My college's drama department is actually performing it this week. I'm going to see it tomorrow. :)

[Jas]

Originally posted by Cosmo
My college's drama department is actually performing it this week. I'm going to see it tomorrow. :)

Really? Cool!

The tagline for it was "A love story with bite!"

[Cosmo]

Originally posted by Jas
Really? Cool!

The tagline for it was "A love story with bite!"

Yeah, I've actually seen it once before, and that sounds about right. :)

I suppose the "bite" refers to the incest. :D

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Chanileslie
Yeah! Get to it! You have a quota to fill of raping, looting, pillaging and killing! I expect it done before supper! :D

Wasn't that the Mighty Fwaawrr?

If you've heard thunder, you know Thor exists. Simple as that. There can be no other explanation.:) :)

Thor lived on baked beans, don't you know?

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by The Mighty Thor
Wasn't that the Mighty Fwaawrr?

If you've heard thunder, you know Thor exists. Simple as that. There can be no other explanation.:) :)

Thor lived on baked beans, don't you know?



well, now I feel like a freak for liking that "after a storm" smell...

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by richardm
If anyone should be terrified of death, it should be the likes of 1inChrist.

They believe in all the hellfire malarky, and also in a vengeful God. If they put one foot wrong, it's straight off to the flaming brimstone.



OTOH, I always figured that considering all the great work I've done for Satan over my life (apparently), that even if I do got to hell, he'll give me a pretty cushy position.

If you read the bible, it's clear that Satan is a pretty rational guy. He can be reasoned with (unlike God, of course, who puts the hammer down).

Not that I believe in either, but even if I'm wrong, it doesn't bother me all that much.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by 1inChrist I wasn't sure which category I belonged in until I read the questions, but now I assume I'm in the second category.

First off, I remain confused about the semantics surrounding atheism. I've always called myself an agnostic, but I've seen definitions of atheist that define me pretty well. Anyway, to your questions: Aren't you scared to die if you believe there is nothing afterwards? Yes. Do you know how lonely it would be to not be alive or to not be feeling anything? I don't think it would be lonely; I don't think it would be anything. Thinking about it can give me a lonely feeling though.

[CSSMariner]

1inC, about your line, "What lies? There are no lies. God does not lie."

That is just the standard line of true-believer BS, and it has a dual nature; it annoys me, yet I find it entertaining to listen to airheads make such claims.

God does not need to lie, he, she, or it IS A LIE, and Christianity, along with its parent Judaism, and its progeny Islam, together account for the single greatest disaster ever perpetrated on humanity. I say again, god is a lie, and dunderheads fall for it.

I hate to quote a former Pro Wrestler, but he was a Navy Seal so that balances the books, but Jesse Ventura said, "Religion is a crutch for inferior minds." What a statement! What a man!

Ventura for president!!!!
:D

[Anathema]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
....Jesse Ventura said, "Religion is a crutch for inferior minds." What a statement! What a man!

Ventura for president!!!!
:D To be precise, the quote refers to organized religion, and was made during the course of a conversation discussing televangelists. So, more accurately, he was only dismissing ultra-right, in-your-face, sock-it-to-the-sheeple evangelism: "[organized] religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

To which I add: Ventura for president!!!!

:)

[CSSMariner]

Originally posted by Anathema
To be precise, the quote refers to organized religion, and was made during the course of a conversation discussing televangelists. So, more accurately, he was only dismissing ultra-right, in-your-face, sock-it-to-the-sheeple evangelism: "[organized] religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

To which I add: Ventura for president!!!!

:)

Thanks for the correction, the old memory is slipping more and more. I do remember his reference being to "organized" religion.

Ventura for President!

Does that count as three votes?:D

[ChrisH]

To quote Epicurus:

Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If death is, I am not.
Why should I fear something that cannot exist if I do?

[plindboe]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.
Explain city workers working down in sewers hearing screams.
Explain the atheist doctor who was terrified when his patients would be revived screaming ''I'm in HELL!!!!''


How old are you? Only a child would believe such idiocy.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by plindboe
How old are you? Only a child would believe such idiocy.

And such a confused, frightened child, too. Sad, but disconcerting nonetheless.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Explain Hellish OBE's.
Explain Hellish NDE's.

The military got exactly the same results when subjecting soldiers to centerfuge testing. Soldiers who experienced NDE's and OBE's weren't even dead at the time, they were just unconscious. In otherwords, your explanation is dreams. People have nightmares all the time, and when there is a severe enough lack of oxygen in the brain, it automatically shuts down higher functions entering a sleeplike state inducing dreams. Hellish NDE's and OB's are in no way outside the scope of the human imagination. As Emily Dickenson once wrote, "the mind is wider than the sky."

[Max560]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


1) Boot to the head

;)

...And another one for Jenny and the wimp.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Max560
...And another one for Jenny and the wimp.

I was wondering if I was the only person who remembered that.

[Max560]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I was wondering if I was the only person who remembered that.

Classic stuff.

Have you seen Dan Redican in Puppets Who Kill? (http://www.puppetswhokill.com/#)

[varwoche]

Originally posted by varwoche
(snip) 1st, I gave you the courtesy of a sincere reply. Bump, in case you overlooked.

[Jontg]

Am I afraid to die?
I have been waiting for two years for someone to ask me this question.
According to 1inChrist's original post, there are two places for an Atheist to go after death--Hell, or oblivion. I do not believe in Hell--as a reasoning almost-adult, I cannot believe in Hell, or Satan, or even God. But I wish with all my heart that I could.
Burning in a lake of fire? Being driven for mile after mile by demons with barbed scourges? Drowning in a river of excrement again and again for all eternity? Big freaking deal.
Pain is nothing. After a century or three, you get used to pain. Or better yet, you go mad from agony and the pain doesn't really bother you that much. You know what scares me?
Nothing.
I am afraid of nothing. Of seeing nothing... of feeling nothing... of being nothing. That is my one, terrible fear--that one day, I shall cease to exist.
Think about it for a minute. No, I won't care when it happens--I won't be able to. I won't be able to move. I won't be able to think. I won't even have the luxury of going mad, because I won't have a mind to lose.
Ceasing to exist--that is the one thing in all of reality that terrifies me more than I can even begin to describe. And that is also exactly what will happen to me when I die.
I've always had a keener sense of my own mortality than most people my age--even as a God-slave, I never really accepted the idea of an afterlife. Right now I'm taking Driver's Ed, and it's been a shock to see how lightly my classmates take the subject. Most likely they've never taken the time to think about what it's like to die--if they did, I'm certain they wouldn't laugh quite so loudly at the videos of car crashes our teacher shows us... but I digress.
The point, 1inChrist, is that I am indeed afraid to die--but if I allow fear to rule my life, I am no different from a spineless God-slave like you.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by varwoche
1st, I gave you the courtesy of a sincere reply. Bump, in case you overlooked. 1st, what am I to do? You, a self-professed Christian, are presumably here to save me. I share with you my innermost thoughts in response to your questionaire, yet you ignore me. The despair this causes me is pulling me further towards the dark side. Why would you do this to me? I teeter on the precipice. I am barely able to resist the urge to go slaughter a goat and/or a rooster.