Atheists cannot be moral.

[1inChrist]

The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

Really? So my personal ethics of not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery are incorrect, and I'm immoral for following these self-decided ethics? Fascinating.

[Ipecac]

Most atheists seem to have morality superior to god.

I'm generalizing here, of course, but we don't believe in infinite punishment for finite crimes. We don't support slavery. We don't support the subjugation of women. We don't support patricide and sacrificing living beings to appease some deity. We wouldn't fly planes into buildings because a supposed deity tells us to.

I'll match my morality against yours any day.




I win! Argument by superior morality!

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Really? So my personal ethics of not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery are incorrect, and I'm immoral for following these self-decided ethics? Fascinating.

I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.

[jimlintott]

Didn't some religous figure say something about the immorality of judging others?

Is it possible that this attitude could lead to bigotry towards people who are not Christian? I find bigotry immoral but what do I know.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.

But you did say that. You said if I followed my own ideas of morality while being an atheist, my morals are inherently immoral. I'm not living a life in according to his word, therefore I'm immoral.

Perhaps you need to redefine "moral" to mean something about one's actions and ethics, and not about their religious beliefs? Or will you descend into a poorly-punctuated maelstrom of random heresies cobbled together by untutored zealots who know little of logic and reasoning?

[crimresearch]

What is moral about being a member of a church where the pastor preaches the True Word of God, and refusing to share with others what this church is, or how they can come to it to hear the Word delivered correctly, and be saved?

And if you think God is commanding you to keep the True Word a secret, or you think that God wants you to *not* tell people how they can find Him through your church, how do you know THAT isn't a trick from Satan?

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.

Which part of TragicMonkey's "not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery" are Satan's lies?

[TragicMonkey]

To clarify, 1inC, you have put yourself into an untenable position. Either you must admit that it's possible to be good without following god, or you must rule that a moral action is immoral depending on who does it.

First case: If telling the truth is moral, and an atheist tells the truth, he is being moral. Therefore, belief god is irrelevant to morality and your hypothesis is disproven.

Second case: If a Christian tells the truth it is a moral act, but while an atheist tells the truth it is an immoral act. Morality, therefore, rests not in the action but in the religious beliefs of the person performing the action.

I know Aquinas could defend either position, but seriously doubt you're up to the task.

(edited for redundancy)

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey

Second case: If a Christian tells the truth it is a moral act, but while an atheist tells the truth it is an immoral act. Morality, therefore, rests not in the action but in the religious beliefs of the person performing the action.



Well, he thinks Ghandi and the Dalai Lama couldn't/can't be moral, because they didn't/don't believe in God.

[1inChrist]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
To clarify, 1inC, you have put yourself into an untenable position. Either you must admit that it's possible to be good without following god, or you must rule that a moral action is immoral depending on who does it.

First case: If telling the truth is moral, and an atheist tells the truth, he is being moral. Therefore, belief god is irrelevant to morality and your hypothesis is disproven.

Second case: If a Christian tells the truth it is a moral act, but while an atheist tells the truth it is an immoral act. Morality, therefore, rests not in the action but in the religious beliefs of the person performing the action.

I know Aquinas could defend either position, but seriously doubt you're up to the task.

(edited for redundancy)

If you don't steal because your own natural morality tells you not to, you are not right you are wrong. The point is not about your actions, it's about do you follow God? If you do not follow God you are bad even if your actions agree with God's idea of good.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Well, he thinks Ghandi and the Dalai Lama couldn't/can't be moral, because they didn't/don't believe in God.

Wow. I could have sworn both of them were religious figures of some note.

[The Don]

Well it would seem that 1inChrist is correct.

End of discussion.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you don't steal because your own natural morality tells you not to, you are not right you are wrong. The point is not about your actions, it's about do you follow God? If you do not follow God you are bad even if your actions agree with God's idea of good.

You have chosen option two: morality has nothing to do with actions. Therefore, a Christian who follows god can commit acts such as murder and rape while remaining moral, because he believes in god.

Please try reading Aquinas. Your religion made more sense before it abandoned reason.

[crimresearch]

I suspect that 1inChrist believes that people who worship 'Mon Dieu' are going to hell also.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by crimresearch
I suspect that 1inChrist believes that people who worship 'Mon Dieu' are going to hell also.

Well, most of them are Catholic, so it's a sure bet.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Shhhh. Keep it down, 1inC, I'm mutilating puppies.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.



AMEN

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.


And Satan's biggest trick was the Bible. Just have a look at all those mindless drones who he got to follow him as God.

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Shhhh. Keep it down, 1inC, I'm mutilating puppies.

Well, okay. As long as you aren't mutilating kitties.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

Please reference the online dictionary, Collins, Oxford, etc that you are using to get that definition of moral. I have found the following 6 definitions but so far I can no mention or need for "god" in any of them. Please show me where it says "to be moral you must follow the god's word"

Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)
Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

[Nyarlathotep]

I love the logic here.

Anything a beleiver does is moral because he beleives in God.

Nothing an atheist does is moral because they don't beleive in God.

1inChrist believes in God, Therefore anything 1inChrist does is moral.

This must be very convenient for him.

[uruk]

So if god does evil it is good. And if satan does good it is evil.
So then it is good when priests fondle and rape little children because they believe in god. Then I can commit any crime I want and not worry about going to hell just so long as I believe in christ. Cool, Why be immoral and athiest and burn when I can be immoral christian and go to heaven. Where do i sign up. Oh wait 1inC will be there. Forget it. I'd rather be moral and athiest.

OOh here's another thought. If I follow christ and get granted anything I want in heaven, can have 1inchrist cast into hell? God can do anything right?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by uruk
So if god does evil it is good. And if satan does good it is evil.
So then it is good when priests fondle and rape little children because they believe in god. Then I can commit any crime I want and not worry about going to hell just so long as I believe in christ. Cool, Why be immoral and athiest and burn when I can be immoral christian and go to heaven. Where do i sign up. Oh wait 1inC will be there. Forget it. I'd rather be moral and athiest.

OOh here's another thought. If I follow christ and get granted anything I want in heaven, can have 1inchrist cast into hell? God can do anything right?

You can commit any crime and not worry about going to hell if you accept JC and repent.

However, if god tells you to commit that crime, then you have not done anything wrong in the first place and so there is nothing to repent.

Subtle difference, but you have a "get out of hell free card" either way.

[Darat]

According to 1inChrist "God will forgive anything..." therefore there is no need to act moral we can just do whatever we want and God will say “It’s OK I forgive you�.




PS. I do wished he'd done a bit more research first, this is too easy, shooting fish in a barrel would be hard in comparison.

[uruk]

However, if god tells you to commit that crime, then you have not done anything wrong in the first place and so there is nothing to repent.
Here's another question for 1inC:
What do you call someone who makes rules than breaks them at his own whim?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by uruk
Here's another question for 1inC:
What do you call someone who makes rules than breaks them at his own whim?
Oh, that's easy. God.

[Darat]

Originally posted by uruk
Here's another question for 1inC:
What do you call someone who makes rules than breaks them at his own whim?

Oh I know that one, go on let me answer it...












GOD!

I'm right aren't I?


(Edited to add: Damn beaten to it.)

[Stitch]

Originally posted by uruk
Here's another question for 1inC:
What do you call someone who makes rules than breaks them at his own whim?

Correct me if I am wrong - but the rules only apply to the flock not to him as well don't they?? If he was bound by rules he would not be all powerful.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Stitch
Correct me if I am wrong - but the rules only apply to the flock not to him as well don't they?? If he was bound by rules he would not be all powerful.

For the love of Jesus, if you believe in him, and the love of fluffy bunnies if you do not, please nobody start discussing the paradoxical nature of omnipotence again. That's even worse than the infinity discussions going on in eleventy-one different threads right now.

[Stitch]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
For the love of Jesus, if you believe in him, and the love of fluffy bunnies if you do not, please nobody start discussing the paradoxical nature of omnipotence again. That's even worse than the infinity discussions going on in eleventy-one different threads right now.

Who is the Jesus geezer then?? :D

I'm bored and thought I'd save 1inC some time!!

[Darat]

Originally posted by Stitch
Who is the Jesus geezer then?? :D

I'm bored and thought I'd save 1inC some time!!

He's one of the Members here, Jesus (http://forums.randi.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=6297) .

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Darat
He's one of the Members here, Jesus (http://forums.randi.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=6297) .

Is there a FluffyBunnies?

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

"If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally, that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814.

[Darat]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Is there a FluffyBunnies?

Unfortunatley not, but we do have Foodbunny, a Schizobunny and a Patchbunny, I'm sure they won't mind if you start worshiping them. ;)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Darat
Unfortunatley not, but we do have Foodbunny, a Schizobunny and a Patchbunny, I'm sure they won't mind if you start worshiping them. ;)

Though I would reccomend caution in how one chooses to worship Schizobunny. She's my stepdaughter and I am a rather protective Elder God.:D

[RebeccaBradley]

Distinct overtones of antinomianism in 1inC's responses on this thread. That was the radical Anabaptist bunch who held that, once you were in a state of grace, everything you did was by definition moral, hence you could do anything you wanted. And some of them did. Lotta trouble with that bunch in the 17th century.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Darat
Unfortunatley not, but we do have Foodbunny, a Schizobunny and a Patchbunny, I'm sure they won't mind if you start worshiping them. ;)

I'll pass. I'm a firm follower of the Monkey God of Free Love and Money.

[Skeptical Greg]

Atheists cannot be moral.


If we cannot be moral, then God must have made it so. How can a just God punish us for something he did?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Atheists cannot be moral.


If we cannot be moral, then God must have made it so. How can a just God punish us for something he did?
Hey. it's not God's fault we don't believe in him. All he did was create us.



Oh.



Carry on. :D

[Darat]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Though I would reccomend caution in how one chooses to worship Schizobunny. She's my stepdaughter and I am a rather protective Elder God.:D

<gulp> Obviously I meant in a non-harassing and consensual manner! ;)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by RebeccaBradley
Distinct overtones of antinomianism in 1inC's responses on this thread. That was the radical Anabaptist bunch who held that, once you were in a state of grace, everything you did was by definition moral, hence you could do anything you wanted. And some of them did. Lotta trouble with that bunch in the 17th century.

So much trouble, in facts that Catholics and more mainstream Protestants took a brief time out from killing each other to go kill them.

As a bit of trivia, the Amish religion descended from the aftermath of that incident, the surviving membrs having pledged to take up pacifism.

[Jellby]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.

Don't we have the ability to reject Satan as well as God?

We don't believe in God, so God cannot lead our actions. But we don't believe in Satan either... and he/it/whatever still messes with our actions? Is Satan more powerful than God?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Can God create a rock so big Satan can't smoke it?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
So much trouble, in facts that Catholics and more mainstream Protestants took a brief time out from killing each other to go kill them.

It was "ecumenical outreach, to establish a dialogue and work together to find common solutions in the holistic paradigm".

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Darat
<gulp> Obviously I meant in a non-harassing and consensual manner! ;)

[Protective Dad Mode]
You Better:mad:
[/Protective Dad Mode]

;)

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

Yes, and with this rationalization, you can justify any cruelity or abuse towards those who don't believe as you do. How nice. If that is the morals you get from your god, then you are a sad, pitiful individual.

Oh, and once again: If we don't believe in one of your gods, why would we believe in any of your other make-believe gods? Hmmm?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
It was "ecumenical outreach, to establish a dialogue and work together to find common solutions in the holistic paradigm".

Exactly. So from this we can conclude that the way to acheive peace in the middle east is to find a group that both the Jews and the Muslims hate so much that they would rather kill THOSE people than each other.

Many of the worlds problems can be solved by looking to history.;)

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
I'm sure you have some morals that agree with God's idea of morality but Satan will mix Truth with lies.

Could you please provide scriptoral references to Satan lying? I mean actually lying, not just, god, Jesus or one of the prophet claiming that that Satan lied. Please. Any. Because even according to the book that you worship, Satan really never did anything bad, but is sure attributed to have done a lot of bad things without evidence.

Also, Satan doesn't exist just like the other gods of your religion.

[The Cats Venm]

Nothing unites people like a common enemy.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by The Cats Venm
Nothing unites people like a common enemy.

Lol. I see that whenever 1inC starts a thread.

[uruk]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by uruk
Here's another question for 1inC:
What do you call someone who makes rules than breaks them at his own whim?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Correct me if I am wrong - but the rules only apply to the flock not to him as well don't they?? If he was bound by rules he would not be all powerful.
That's right! He would be a micro-manager.


Could you please provide scriptoral references to Satan lying? I mean actually lying, not just, god, Jesus or one of the prophet claiming that that Satan lied. Please. Any. Because even according to the book that you worship, Satan really never did anything bad, but is sure attributed to have done a lot of bad things without evidence.
This goes back to post I made in some long abandoned thread. That everything satan does is good and that evil is good. Evereything god does is good. So when god allows satan to do his stuff it is good because god allowed him to do it. So when satan is missleading you, it is good.

[Anathema]

Can God create a sockpuppet so dense that even he can't break through to it?

[fishbob]

TragicMonkey's personal ethics: not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery.

My personal ethics: don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal.

Damn, 4 to 3, I lose.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by fishbob
TragicMonkey's personal ethics: not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery.

My personal ethics: don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal.

Damn, 4 to 3, I lose.

Ha, ha. I'll be able to jeer at you from heaven...which doesn't exist. Rats. Why exactly do I bother with ethical behavior, again? I'm going to have to rethink.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by fishbob
TragicMonkey's personal ethics: not stealing, not lying, not murdering, and not committing adultery.

My personal ethics: don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal.

Damn, 4 to 3, I lose.
No, your morals are clearly better, because they are stated in fewer words, which makes them simpler. Occam's Razor deems you victorious.

Argument from bad shaving

[Darat]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Ha, ha. I'll be able to jeer at you from heaven...which doesn't exist. Rats. Why exactly do I bother with ethical behavior, again? I'm going to have to rethink.

Because you've sold your soul to the devil and you do his bidding. By acting moral, even though you are a terrible and evil person, you cause confusion for Christians who know only Christians can be moral. Fortunately 1inChrist has the power to see through the devil's plans and realise that even though you act in a moral way you really are terrible and evil.


(Edited a luck to a fortune.)

[TruthSeeker]

fishbob is allowed to murder people according to his code of ethics.


I declare fishbob the winner of this debate...argument by self-preservation

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Darat
Fortunately 1inChrist has the power to see through the devil's plans and realise that even though you act in a moral way you really are terrible and evil.


I refuse to believe anybody can discern the depths of my evil until at least the second* date. That's when I drop my satanic fake-morality facade.







*Well, first date if the date is really attractive.

[roger]

I would like a show of hands from the people who are willing to take advice about morals from the poster who has said that

1) slavery is okay
2) flying a plane into a building full of innocent people is okay.


Anybody?




Hello?





*crickets*

[Darat]

Originally posted by roger
I would like a show of hands from the people who are willing to take advice about morals from the poster who has said that



I think she sounds like a very nice, well adjusted young lady who just wants to help people, I think you’ve just misunderstood her points.

Originally posted by roger

1) slavery is okay


She’d only support enslaving people who God was going to send to hell for eternity. Considering the torment they will then suffer for ever does it really matter if we enslave for their “earthly� life. After all it’s probably only an additional 40 or 50 years on top of their eternity of suffering.

Originally posted by roger

2) flying a plane into a building full of innocent people is okay.
...snip..


If God wanted them dead they can’t have been innocent or perhaps she would be doing them a favour and getting them to God quicker.

Looked in the right light I think 1inChrist’s views and opinions are brimming with a certain type of Christian love…. ;)

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by Darat
Looked in the right light I think 1inChrist’s views and opinions are brimming with a certain type of Christian love…. ;) Just a sec. Let me get a towel.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

So if God says "Don't kill people," it's good, but if Satan says "Don't kill people," it's somehow bad?

You really are an idiot. It's the same exact thing no matter who says it.

I win the debate! Argument by insult!

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by c4ts

I win the debate! Argument by insult!

I keep trying to win by ' Argument of not participating '..

What am I doing wrong?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Diogenes
I keep trying to win by ' Argument of not participating '..

What am I doing wrong?

Dude, you totally were winning by that...until you messed it up by posting.

Therefore, I win because I'm the first person to use the word "harpsichord" in his thread. Argument By Mentioning Harpsichords.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Dude, you totally were winning by that...until you messed it up by posting.

Therefore, I win because I'm the first person to use the word "harpsichord" in his thread. Argument By Mentioning Harpsichords.
*takes a paddle to TM*

I win. Argument by spanking monkey.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
*takes a paddle to TM*

I win. Argument by spanking monkey.

Argumentum ad Onanimus?

Eeewwww!!!

[Temporal Renegade]

Originally posted by Darat
Unfortunatley not, but we do have Foodbunny, a Schizobunny and a Patchbunny, I'm sure they won't mind if you start worshiping them. ;)


What, no Cutey Bunny? (obscure comic book reference, that!):D

[phildonnia]

I think we have a problem of definitions here.

1IC is apparenly using "moral" to mean "acting out of terror of the bearded man in the sky". Let us grant him this definition. His arguments then make more sense. It is obvious that by definition, someone who does not believe in the bearded man in the sky cannot be moral.

I propose a new word "morul" which means "acting upon principles of compassion and fairness". I think we can all agree that it's possible for atheists to be morul.

( I suddenly realized that these two terms may sound similar in pronunciation. To distinguish them, "moral" is pronounced with an extra syllable: "MORE-ohn-al")

[cbish]

1inC

*pant..pant**..............evil..

.........where did?.......*pant..pant**

dinosaurs....humans....rock strata......

.....evil??...*pant..pant*

(collapse!)

[c4ts]

Now look what you've done! Your shoddy reasoning killed this poor guy!

I win the debate! Argument by guilt!

[jimmygun]

Who is the most immoral person in history? Mao? Uncle Joe? Pol Pot? Let's say for the sake of argument that Dolf is the biggest most amoral dude around. He was responsible for the deaths of nearly 50 million people give or take a jew or homo or gypsy. Lets assume that this immorality actually resulted in the death of double that number, say 100 million people.

Still don't hold a candle to god who at one time murdered everyone on earth 'cept for what? Eight or nine?

And he claims he's going to do it again. Certainly cuts a fine moral example don't he?

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
*takes a paddle to TM*

I win. Argument by spanking monkey. All threads with 1"Christ seem to amount to nothing more than so much monkey-spanking. Come to think of it, monkey-spanking provides a more worthwhile....um...er.... outcome...

[Aussie Thinker]

Guys,

Much and all as we love to jump on ‘ol 1inC it is really quite pointless.

He is a borderline cretin who just blazes in and posts complete drivel then won’t respond to any of the answers.

I KNOW we are a bit starved for argument but arguing against a moron is a complete waste of time…

BTW I am just as guilty.. don’t doubt that I will also jump in every now and again and rail at some loon !

[cbish]

Aussie thinker wrote:

Guys,

Much and all as we love to jump on ‘ol 1inC it is really quite pointless.

He is a borderline cretin who just blazes in and posts complete drivel then won’t respond to any of the answers.

I KNOW we are a bit starved for argument but arguing against a moron is a complete waste of time…

BTW I am just as guilty,

Yes, you are correct. We all know that.


anyway, I still want him to answer my question :p

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

This one isn't even worth my time.

:s2:

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.



God could have created all humans so that they both have free will AND always obey God.

Why, if he could have done this (your assertion) did he not do it?

[Anders]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.
First of all, moral standars are set in different contexts. My moral is somewhat different from yours. Yours is different from fantic muslim's moral, which is different from raper's moral, which is different from fantic lefties moral, which is different from neonazi moral, which is different from.....well, you get the point.

But you are also wrong in a couple of respects: Non christian moral is not satans moral, the bible is not the voice of god, it's the voice of hundreds of fairly bad writers.

[RamblingOnwards]

Since I seem to be in a dictionary mood today:

Words that describe motivation

Pious: Having or exhibiting religious reverence; earnestly compliant in the observance of religion; devout.
Scruples: motivation deriving logically from ethical or moral principles that govern a person's thoughts and actions

Words that describe behaviour

Moral: Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior
Ethics: A set of principles of right conduct.

[good old dictionary.com]

Clearly both atheists and religious people can act in ways that are moral or immoral. Clearly only religious people can act piously. Perhaps 1inChrist is saying that he believes Atheists cannot have consitent principles and are therefore unscrupulous? Not that I agree with him, obviously, I'm just trying to figure out what he actually means.

[MRC_Hans]

Now, I can't be bothered to check, but this might be a new record for 1inchChrist for painting himself into a corner and bailing out of a thread.

What a jerk :nope:. If I were God, I'd strike him with lightning real quick, before he could do more damage to my reputation :rolleyes:.

In fact, the existence of people like him is one some the best evidence against God.

Hans

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
Guys,

Much and all as we love to jump on ‘ol 1inC it is really quite pointless.

He is a borderline cretin who just blazes in and posts complete drivel then won’t respond to any of the answers.

I KNOW we are a bit starved for argument but arguing against a moron is a complete waste of time…

BTW I am just as guilty.. don’t doubt that I will also jump in every now and again and rail at some loon !

OK, Aussie Thinker wins this debate...

Argument by Capitulation.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Now, I can't be bothered to check, but this might be a new record for 1inchChrist for painting himself into a corner and bailing out of a thread.

What a jerk :nope:. If I were God, I'd strike him with lightning real quick, before he could do more damage to my reputation :rolleyes:.

In fact, the existence of people like him is one some the best evidence against God.

Hans

Thus supporting my conspiracy theory that 1inC is actually an atheist trying to convince people that religion is stupid. So far he's done a great job.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
Guys,

Much and all as we love to jump on ‘ol 1inC it is really quite pointless.

He is a borderline cretin who just blazes in and posts complete drivel then won’t respond to any of the answers.


Borderline cretin? What do you mean? I would say he's a full blown cretin, nothing borderline about him at all.

BTW, I win this debate

Argument by stealth.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
BTW, I win this debate

[/B] Debate? Which debate??

Hans

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Debate? Which debate??

Hans

The debate about which kind of cretin 1inChrist is.

[Kitty Chan]

maybe he is a 15 yr old guy, would explain how sarcasm does not work on him or name calling

What would you guys think of guys like you when you were young?? ;)


Arguement from a different perspective :D

[Anathema]

1"Christ has claimed to have two college-age daughters, so we have a fair idea of the generation his caricature is intended to appear to be coming from.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
maybe he is a 15 yr old guy, would explain how sarcasm does not work on him or name calling

What would you guys think of guys like you when you were young?? ;)


Arguement from a different perspective :D

Oh, admittedly the 37 year old me would not like the 15 year old me at all. But that was because I was a jerk, not an idiot.

[Kitty Chan]

So hes a young jerk or a grumpy old man :D

Im just trying to be fair if he is young . . .

grumpy old men can take care of themselves


But having said that as you are all aware the young have more energy and can wear you out :)

[CSSMariner]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
The reason atheists can't be moral is because atheists do not live a life according to His Word. Every since the Original Parents disobeyed God, human beings have become naturally evil. If you use your own natural morals and not God's idea of morals which can be found in His Word, you are using Satan's morals. Even though they seem right to you, they are wrong.

.1ic, you are, to quote my dearly departed dad, as full of s**t as a thanksgiving turkey. I am, from all indications, far more moral than priests or preachers, and probably more so than you.

Just like all true believers, you are blinded by your own prejudices and do not have the slightest idea of that of which you so boldly speak without the slightest bit of understanding about anything. Don't go away mad, just go away
:mad:

[1inChrist]

You want to know a little about me?

Well I was raised by my Father, Uncle and Grandfather. My Mother whom I did not meet until I was 26 worked as a missionary all of her life. She would travel around the world preaching the Truth of Christ to those who had never heard the Word of our Glorious God. I became saved around age 5 or 6 when I could fully understand the Lord and His plan of Salvation. I understood I was a sinner and I needed Jesus to guide my life. Every since I was a small child I have lived for Him.

My Father, Uncle and Grandfather taught me of the dangers of the sin infested world we live in and how to guard against it. See unlike you people, I have not been brainwashed with the materialist agenda. You people seem to worship scientists and believe everything they say. You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work. However I can see through Satan's lies. I see a whole world of science and rationalism dominance but be warned it is not ''science'' or ''rational'' is it materialist fundamentlism that is a trick by Satan to have you turn away from Salvation.

You see I have had the armor of the Lord protecting me all my life. Not once have I lived with your sin plagued mindset of materialism. I have always seen things clearly. I have never been blind as the Lord's Glorious spotlight has always shined upon me.

[monkboon]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You want to know a little about me?
Thanks for sharing.

Want to know a little about me? I was once like you, as certain of my faith as a lottery player is certain that "somebody's got to win, may as well be me!" At 13, I was convinced that my calling in life was to be a Lutheran minister. So, like a good pastor-to-be, I read the Bible, cover to cover. It took a while - I was only 13 mind you - but never had I read such a horrid, inconsistent piece of fiction in my life. That pretty much did it for me. I decided that the one being in the whole universe that should have been able to get his story straight had failed so miserably, that clearly this was not the work of an omniscient god. Without the inerrency of the Bible to prop it up, and with a halfway decent education (despite a growing creationist movement in this country doing its best to lower standards) I eventually outgrew my need for the crutch.

It's not too late, you can free yourself as well. Just read the Bible with a critical eye for once. Pick a version, any version.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You want to know a little about me?

*snipped, incredibly sad story of a mentally abused child :( * In other words, totally brainwashed. You have my sympathy. I have a bit of advice for you: Stay away from the internet. It is not very likely, but somebody just might open your eyes and show you that you have wasted half your life. Better run into yout little safe hiding place and stay there, it's a nasty world out here.

Hans :nope:

[Operaider]

It's not too late, you can free yourself as well
monkboon,

You are very optimistic. I honestly don't think there is any way to help 1 in Christ. His brain has not only been washed, it's been scrubbed clean of any common sense. You may be able to convince some people with logic and reasoning. But 1 in Christ has been conditioned to believe nearly anything, as long as it supports his religious viewpoint. Just read his last post:
You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work Witches?
Really?
Scientists are WITCHES!?!?!
He seems to have read 1 too many of the Grimm's fairy tales.
Next he'll be warning us to avoid wolves dressed like your grandma, life size ginger bread houses in the middle of the woods, and a trickster named Rumplestiltskin

[RamblingOnwards]

You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work.

Do you believe this?

If so, do you use any electricity, plumping, velcro, preserved foods, medication, cars, plastic, etc?

And if so, how do you personally justify using the fruit of satanists?

A good tree is not able to yield evil fruits, nor a bad tree to yield good fruits. Every tree not yielding good fruit is cut down and is cast to fire. Matthew 7:18-19.

[Vim Razz]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You people seem to worship scientists and believe everything they say. You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work.:dl:
I dont know what to say...

[Zep]

Chain-yanker.

[monkboon]

Originally posted by Operaider
monkboon,

You are very optimistic.

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. I try to be. It ain't easy. But my optimism isn't entirely unfounded - my father came to his senses at the age of 60 something, and he's the one who had me convinced to go into the ministry in the first place.

[kuroyume0161]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You want to know a little about me?

You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work. However I can see through Satan's lies. I see a whole world of science and rationalism dominance but be warned it is not ''science'' or ''rational'' is it materialist fundamentlism that is a trick by Satan to have you turn away from Salvation.

You see I have had the armor of the Lord protecting me all my life. Not once have I lived with your sin plagued mindset of materialism. I have always seen things clearly. I have never been blind as the Lord's Glorious spotlight has always shined upon me.

You want to know a little about me? My story is very similar to monkboon's except I was considering Franciscan monk. I read the Bible from Gen-Rev and, as he, found it to be catastrophic to my illusory, delusional version of Christianity. I was not brainwashed by 'materialists' - my family are mostly very devout RC's.

Now to the juicy part! Wow! You'd better stop posting here - didn't you hear, computers are technology invented by science (of course, this includes your car, tv, radio, refridgerator, microwave, cell phone, telephone - if it runs on gas/diesel or electricity, it's Satanic Science!). That makes you a HERETIC! Burn him!!!

Robert

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by 1inChrist

Well I was raised by my Father, Uncle and Grandfather. My Mother whom I did not meet until I was 26 worked as a missionary all of her life. She would travel around the world preaching the Truth of Christ to those who had never heard the Word of our Glorious God.
You must still be pretty angry about that.

[CSSMariner]

[i]I have never been blind as the Lord's Glorious spotlight has always shined upon me. [/B]

Never was there a more appripriate time to que the rock&roll tune, "Blinded by the light!"

:p

[CSSMariner]

[i]I have never been blind as the Lord's Glorious spotlight has always shined upon me. [/B]

Never was there a more appripriate time to que the rock&roll tune, "Blinded by the light!" Truly a case of the blind leading the blind.

Just like a woman dipped in the holy-roller BS to leave her son until he was an adult.

:p

[The GM]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You want to know a little about me?

Well I was raised by my Father, Uncle and Grandfather. My Mother whom I did not meet until I was 26 worked as a missionary all of her life. She would travel around the world preaching the Truth of Christ to those who had never heard the Word of our Glorious God.

Balloney. It's *never* a married woman's place to go out and mission without her husband, particularly for 26 years. For those of us who know the faith, your story is pretty transparent.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by 1inChrist
You want to know a little about me?

Well I was raised by my Father, Uncle and Grandfather. My Mother whom I did not meet until I was 26 worked as a missionary all of her life.


Aren't kids who grow up without a mother more likely to be gay?



My Father, Uncle and Grandfather taught me of the dangers of the sin infested world we live in and how to guard against it. See unlike you people, I have not been brainwashed with the materialist agenda. You people seem to worship scientists and believe everything they say. You don't even question for one second that scientists could be witches using the power of Satan to make their ''technology'' work.

As a scientist, I just have to say, thank you Satan.

[Temporal Renegade]

Technology is the tool of Satan? What are you, Amish?

If you dislike it so much, why are you here? Isn't the computer and the Internet part of The Eve-Ill One's plans against All That Is Holy And Good?

[crimresearch]

Apparently God finds the Internet useful to let his chosen dozen in the secret Church of the Only Ones Truly Saved (COOTS), brag about it.