A serious accusation about Russia…

[no one in particular]

Russia has been friend to the United States for what, like 10 minutes? If the following report is true it could have dire consequences for future relations.

This (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13057-2003Mar23.html) article make the following statement among others:

one Russian company is helping the Iraqi military deploy electronic jamming equipment against U.S. planes and bombs, and two others have sold antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles in violation of U.N. sanctions. The sources said Moscow has ignored entreaties from senior Bush administration officials concerned about the threat to U.S. forces.

More of the same is reported here (http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2431511) and here (http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/newswire/2003/03/23/rtr915533.html).

[Skeptic]

It should be noted that there is a difference between a "Russian company" and Russia, the nation. One company does not a national policy make.

But, I do believe that much of the opposition of Russia, France, and Germany to the war has a lot to do with these nations not wanting it exposed how many weapons they sold Saddam and how much oil they bought from him.

[DrBenway]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/24/1048354488685.html
Cruise missiles found in hidden bunker
British troops outside Basra have discovered cruise missiles and warheads hidden inside fortified bunkers as part of a massive arsenal abandoned by Saddam Hussein's disintegrating southern army.

Cases of rockets, giant anti-shipping mines and other ammunition are piled from floor to ceiling in dozens of bunkers at what is marked on maps as the Az Zubaya Heliport.

The most disturbing find was two Russian-made Al-Harith anti-shipping cruise missiles, each 6m long and 1m in diameter, and nine warheads, hidden in two enormous reinforced concrete bunkers.
...
The scale and possible implications of the weapons find took British forces by surprise and raised fresh questions about the extent of the Iraqi war machine and the ability of weapons inspectors to cope with the task of scouring such a vast country for prohibited ordinance.
...
The missiles, with Al-Harith 2002 stencilled in red paint on the side, and covered with cyrillic writing, were housed in 20-m-long concrete bunkers, 8m high, buried under earth and protected by sliding steel double doors 30cm thick.

Painted grey, the missiles have two wings, each about 60cm in span and three tail fins of a similar size. There was no indication of the nature of the warheads fitted and experts have been called in to examine the find.
...
"The complex is massive and we were surprised to find a lot of the kit intact, easily enough for a whole brigade," he said.

[Aoidoi]

Oh great. And I've been telling myself "this war will stay confined to Iraq. It's not going to spread. Of course not! Turkey isn't going to get into firefights with the Kurds! Iran isn't going to get pissed about that missile!" Now I get to add Russia to my list of potential new fronts.

I should really stop following this so much, it's just worrying me more and more as time goes on.

Mind you, I assume that any Russian government officials aware of this were probably bought off by the company selling the weapons, but it's still something to worry about.

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by DrBenway
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/24/1048354488685.html
Cruise missiles found in hidden bunker
British troops outside Basra have discovered cruise missiles and warheads hidden inside fortified bunkers as part of a massive arsenal abandoned by Saddam Hussein's disintegrating southern army.

Cases of rockets, giant anti-shipping mines and other ammunition are piled from floor to ceiling in dozens of bunkers at what is marked on maps as the Az Zubaya Heliport.

The most disturbing find was two Russian-made Al-Harith anti-shipping cruise missiles, each 6m long and 1m in diameter, and nine warheads, hidden in two enormous reinforced concrete bunkers.
...
The scale and possible implications of the weapons find took British forces by surprise and raised fresh questions about the extent of the Iraqi war machine and the ability of weapons inspectors to cope with the task of scouring such a vast country for prohibited ordinance.
...
The missiles, with Al-Harith 2002 stencilled in red paint on the side, and covered with cyrillic writing, were housed in 20-m-long concrete bunkers, 8m high, buried under earth and protected by sliding steel double doors 30cm thick.

Painted grey, the missiles have two wings, each about 60cm in span and three tail fins of a similar size. There was no indication of the nature of the warheads fitted and experts have been called in to examine the find.
...
"The complex is massive and we were surprised to find a lot of the kit intact, easily enough for a whole brigade," he said. Interesting. I haven't seen this reported elsewhere.

BTW, was there any particular reason you left out this bit:Some of the boxes are clearly marked with the names of British manufacturers. and later, this bit:On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran."

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
BTW, was there any particular reason you left out this bit: and later, this bit:

Initially, I cut and paste the entire section. But it seemed too long, so I limited my quote to stuff about the missile 6 meters long. Figured folks could read the details about the other stuff via the link.

I don't know what to make of the English words "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran." What might "AS" stand for?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic
It should be noted that there is a difference between a "Russian company" and Russia, the nation. One company does not a national policy make.

But, I do believe that much of the opposition of Russia, France, and Germany to the war has a lot to do with these nations not wanting it exposed how many weapons they sold Saddam and how much oil they bought from him.

you might find this interesting.



Israeli Arms Exports to China of Growing Concern to U.S.
Wade Boese
The United States has reportedly increased pressure on Israel about its arms sales to China, and Israel has given assurances that it will not export any item that could harm U.S. security, according to U.S. and Israeli officials in January.

U.S. concerns about Israeli arms sales to China have existed for more than a decade and came to a head in July 2000 when the United States persuaded Israel to cancel the sale of the Phalcon, an advanced, airborne early-warning system, to China. Afterward, U.S.-Israeli differences over arms sales to China publicly receded but resurfaced in early January when the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz reported that the United States had recently asked Israel to end all arms sales to China.

U.S. and Israeli officials have not publicly confirmed whether the United States made such a request, but State Department spokesman Richard Boucher suggested that the Israeli-Chinese arms trade is a continuing problem. He said January 2 that it is an “ongoing subject of discussion” between the United States and Israel. He further stated that the subject “comes up regularly” and there is a “need for any suppliers of weaponry to be considerate and concerned about the strategic situation in a region that’s of great sensitivity and importance to us.” The United States is a strong supporter of Taiwan, which Beijing is seeking to reunify with the Chinese mainland.

China, according to the Associated Press, issued a written statement January 3 declaring, “No country has the right to interfere in the developing military trade cooperation between China and Israel.”

When asked whether Israel had halted all arms sales to China, a spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Ministry replied January 8, “Defense relations between Israel and China require from time to time consideration of specific issues. This revision [sic] is conducted vis-à-vis China and on concrete issues also vis-à-vis the U.S., bearing in mind American sensitivity.”



http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_03/israelexports_mar03.asp

[Pyrrho]

Guess who gets to clean up all these armaments and WMD and so and and so forth? The companies that built them and sold them in the first place. Winners of USAID contracts have been selected but not announced publicly...let's just say these companies make money at both ends.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


you might find this interesting.



http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_03/israelexports_mar03.asp

You seem to be insinuating something, AUP. Care to explicitly state what your point is instread of dropping vague hints?

Yes, I know, I know: actually SAYING what you think about israel/the jews instead of posting URLs will rob you of the "I never actually said..." defense against accusations of antisemitism, so I don't suppose you will be explicit.

Ah well.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by Skeptic
actually SAYING what you think about israel/the jews instead of posting URLs will rob you of the "I never actually said..." defense against accusations of antisemitism, so I don't suppose you will be explicit.

I'll never understand the mentality of people who equate criticism of Israel's government with anti-semitism :(

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne


I'll never understand the mentality of people who equate criticism of Israel's government with anti-semitism :(

because it means they can avoid the issue at hand, Israel supplying weapons to states that it should not be.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Skeptic
It should be noted that there is a difference between a "Russian company" and Russia, the nation. One company does not a national policy make.

But, I do believe that much of the opposition of Russia, France, and Germany to the war has a lot to do with these nations not wanting it exposed how many weapons they sold Saddam and how much oil they bought from him.

Here it goes again...
Since you throw Germany in one pot with France and Russia, care to exaplain what weapons sold by Germany you refer to? Especially those we might be afraid of getting uncovered during this Invasion?

Zee