Saddam Sends SOS To Moscow

[Jedi Knight]

Saddam Hussein, having difficulty digesting his dinner because of the 10 inch piece of US made steel lodged in his stomach from the 6,000 pound laser guided bomb that dropped in on his secret bunker 30 seconds after the war started, needs the help of a Moscow surgeon. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31684)

Either that or he is asking for nuclear weapon's help because US troops are 50 miles from Baghdad and it is GAME OVER BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!

JK

[fidiot]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!

Which god are you talking about? And America as in both South America and North America?

I have to admit though, the "Saddam having difficulty digesting his dinner" bit was funny. :D

[Hypocolius]

according to the British daily The Sun.

Erm, the Sun is not really a newspaper, it doesn't even qualify as a tabloid. How can I say this? It is complete and utter sh*te. I wouldn't trust it, or any of its hacks to sit the right way on a toilet, let alone investigate a story. I wouldn't even wipe my a#se on it to be honest, 'cos you'd end up with ink on your bum, and the paper's a bit coarse too.

Apart from that of course, it's OK.

[Goshawk]

Erm, actually...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2880561.stm
Monday, 24 March, 2003, 15:51 GMT

...Even an hour or two before his latest appearance, there was a report that British electronic eavesdroppers at GCHQ in Cheltenham had picked up a phone message to Moscow asking for a surgeon to attend to a stomach wound Saddam Hussein had. I notice the carefully neutral "there was a report", and I can't find it anywhere else on GoogleNews, but I don't think the Beeb is in the habit of getting their news items off the Sun's front page without doing at least a little bit of checking.

[Jedi Knight]

I think I figured out the real reason why Saddam had his intelligence people contact Moscow and ask for a "surgeon". I can explain if anyone is interested.

JK

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I think I figured out the real reason why Saddam had his intelligence people contact Moscow and ask for a "surgeon". I can explain if anyone is interested.

JK

We're not.

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I think I figured out the real reason why Saddam had his intelligence people contact Moscow and ask for a "surgeon". I can explain if anyone is interested.

Ok, I'll play. Is "surgeon" intelligence lingo for "hit man"?

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I think I figured out the real reason why Saddam had his intelligence people contact Moscow and ask for a "surgeon". I can explain if anyone is interested.

JK A sudden urge for a boob job?

[aerocontrols]

It was mistranscribed.

He actually wants some sturgeon. The problem with his belly is that he's got the munchies.

[Jedi Knight]

Iraq contacted the Russians and told them: "We need a surgeon because some injuries are out of our control."

That is a code message to request permission from Moscow to use weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is telling the Russians that they are losing complete control of the war and are seeking permission to use the big stuff. They used Saddam in the message or the intent of the message so that the Russians would think it came from the highest echelon of their government as a request.

This is speculation, of course, but it fits in several ways. The first is that Iraq was never short of doctors to treat Saddam. The best surgeons in Iraq have always tended to him. If he was that injured, the Russians wouldn't fly in a doctor anyway because of the war and the isolated airspace. Also, the US has not hit any hospital facilities in Baghdad. There is no need to request "medical" assistance.

No, that message was a message requesting something else. It was a code-blue. I think it is time to recheck the gas-masks.

JK

[Reager]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Iraq contacted the Russians and told them: "We need a surgeon because some injuries are out of our control."

That is a code message to request permission from Moscow to use weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is telling the Russians that they are losing complete control of the war and are seeking permission to use the big stuff. They used Saddam in the message or the intent of the message so that the Russians would think it came from the highest echelon of their government as a request.

This is speculation, of course, but it fits in several ways. The first is that Iraq was never short of doctors to treat Saddam. The best surgeons in Iraq have always tended to him. If he was that injured, the Russians wouldn't fly in a doctor anyway because of the war and the isolated airspace. Also, the US has not hit any hospital facilities in Baghdad. There is no need to request "medical" assistance.

No, that message was a message requesting something else. It was a code-blue. I think it is time to recheck the gas-masks.

JK

Ummm, why exactly would Iraq be asking Moscow for permission to use weapons of mass destruction?

Mike

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by mfeldman


Ummm, why exactly would Iraq be asking Moscow for permission to use weapons of mass destruction?

Mike

The Iraq Army has been equipped and trained by the Russians for decades. Iraqi military ideology was built around Soviet warfighting. It is only logical for them to turn to their most astute international supporter for guidance.

JK

[Reager]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The Iraq Army has been equipped and trained by the Russians for decades. Iraqi military ideology was built around Soviet warfighting.

Assuming this is true (which I'm not sure it is)...

It is only logical for them to turn to their most astute international supporter for guidance.

JK

Why is that logical? Why would the Russians give military guidance to Saddam Hussein in a war against the United States? What would they gain? And besides, you didn't say "guidance" you said "permission." Is Saddam Hussein taking orders from Vladimir Putin?

Mike

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by mfeldman


Assuming this is true (which I'm not sure it is)...



Why is that logical? Why would the Russians give military guidance to Saddam Hussein in a war against the United States? What would they gain? And besides, you didn't say "guidance" you said "permission." Is Saddam Hussein taking orders from Vladimir Putin?

Mike

The Russians built the Iraqi Army. Right before the US military crushed the Iraqi military in Persian Gulf War I, the Russians boasted publicly about how the Iraqi army would destroy the coalition forces.

The Russians have always been connected to Iraq. They protested this war from the start. I think the Iraqis slipped up sending that communique and they did so out of a hastened deterioration of their control over the country and the pending threat on their capital.

Think about it. They know they have one chance to hit us. Imagine the pics on Al Jazeera of a successful chemical attack on our troops outside Baghdad. They will have one shot to do it and it was a timely decision. That is why they sent that communique forward so quickly. They would want the Russians to give them permission or notify them so they could brace themselves.

If it turns out not to be true, it would make a good book. ;)

JK

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
The Russians built the Iraqi Army. Right before the US military crushed the Iraqi military in Persian Gulf War I, the Russians boasted publicly about how the Iraqi army would destroy the coalition forces.I don't recall that... do you have a cite? If Russia was so pro-Iraq why didn't they veto the UN actions in the first war?

The Russians have always been connected to Iraq.Even when we were supplying them in their war against Iran?
They protested this war from the start.So did the French and Hollywood, though I think the French were marginally more vocal.

Think about it. They know they have one chance to hit us. Um, it would seem like they have numerous chances... it's not like our army is hard to locate ("hmm... what's that gigantic dust cloud over there traveling at 40 mph?") Attacks behind the lines also seem reasonable to expect.

Imagine the pics on Al Jazeera of a successful chemical attack on our troops outside Baghdad. Er, yeah. It'd totally turn world opinion against Iraq and validate everything Bush has been saying. Seems like a bad move.
They will have one shot to do it and it was a timely decision. That is why they sent that communique forward so quickly. They would want the Russians to give them permission or notify them so they could brace themselves.What do the Russians care? Even if they do support Saddam I sincerely doubt they're calling the plays on use of chemical weapons, I see neither motivation on their part nor willingness on Saddam's part for this arrangement. Saddam used chemical weapons repeatedly in the war against Iran as well as against the Kurds, I've never heard anyone suggest the Russians we consulted for that, in fact I've heard the Iraqis had a learning curve that probably would not have been necessary with Russian experts on the scene.

If it turns out not to be true, it would make a good book. ;)Not without some other motivations not currently in evidence.

[Reager]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The Russians built the Iraqi Army. Right before the US military crushed the Iraqi military in Persian Gulf War I, the Russians boasted publicly about how the Iraqi army would destroy the coalition forces.

The Russians have always been connected to Iraq. They protested this war from the start. I think the Iraqis slipped up sending that communique and they did so out of a hastened deterioration of their control over the country and the pending threat on their capital.

Think about it. They know they have one chance to hit us. Imagine the pics on Al Jazeera of a successful chemical attack on our troops outside Baghdad. They will have one shot to do it and it was a timely decision. That is why they sent that communique forward so quickly. They would want the Russians to give them permission or notify them so they could brace themselves.

If it turns out not to be true, it would make a good book. ;)

JK


What would the Russians be "bracing themselves" for? Press reports? Again, why would the Iraqis seek permission from the Russians? Is Baghdad taking orders from Moscow? You're making absolutely no sense.

Mike

[DrBenway]

The notion that the call for a surgeon is a coded statement seems plausible. As you stated, flying in a surgeon from Russia seems rather impractical at the moment.

I hope you're wrong about the chemical weapons meaning, however.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by mfeldman



What would the Russians be "bracing themselves" for? Press reports? Again, why would the Iraqis seek permission from the Russians? Is Baghdad taking orders from Moscow? You're making absolutely no sense.

Mike

I explained it very clearly.

JK

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by mfeldman


Assuming this is true (which I'm not sure it is)...


That part, at least, is true according to everything I've ever read. All their equipment (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=388544#post388544) (the vast majority, anyway) is Soviet/Russian, their tactics/fortifications/doctrine etc... (as I recall from the Gulf War) were Soviet, though they appear to have learned better now...

I do not endorse or dispute the rest of JK's speculations.

[edit: I believe their best bunkers are German-built. Not that this would affect their other arms purchase or fighting doctrine.]

MattJ

[Reager]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I explained it very clearly.

JK

You explained nothing. You made a number of unsupported statements concerning Russia's former military and political support for Iraq, none of which prove (or even explain why) Iraq is currently taking orders from Moscow. I've heard a lot about you JK, but never had the pleasure(?) of engaging you in a thread. If this is the best you can do, count me as underwhelmed....

Mike

[DrBenway]

The two lead stories on Reuters now:
1. the US is pissed at Russia and believes Russians in Baghdad are helping Iraq with electronic jamming equipment
2. the US believes Iraq will use chemical weapons in Baghdad

TV: Iraq May Use Chemical Weapons on US in Baghdad
Mon March 24, 2003 07:47 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials say the Iraqi leadership has drawn "a red line" around the map of Baghdad and once American troops cross it Iraqi Republican Guards have been authorized to use chemical weapons, U.S. television networks reported on Monday.
The reports, by CNN, NBC and CBS's National Security correspondent David Martin, did not name the U.S. officials or give any further details.

NBC said its information was coming from intelligence officials who based it on intercepts of Iraqi communications.

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0IMLTG244YPZACRBAE0CF FA?type=topNews&storyID=2440520

[Reager]

Originally posted by DrBenway
The two lead stories on Reuters now:
1. the US is pissed at Russia and believes Russians in Baghdad are helping Iraq with electronic jamming equipment
2. the US believes Iraq will use chemical weapons in Baghdad

TV: Iraq May Use Chemical Weapons on US in Baghdad
Mon March 24, 2003 07:47 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials say the Iraqi leadership has drawn "a red line" around the map of Baghdad and once American troops cross it Iraqi Republican Guards have been authorized to use chemical weapons, U.S. television networks reported on Monday.
The reports, by CNN, NBC and CBS's National Security correspondent David Martin, did not name the U.S. officials or give any further details.

NBC said its information was coming from intelligence officials who based it on intercepts of Iraqi communications.

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0IMLTG244YPZACRBAE0CF FA?type=topNews&storyID=2440520

I couldn't find the first article you mentioned. But regardless, this does not mean that Baghdad is taking orders from Moscow (if that's what you're getting at, it's hard to tell).

Mike

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by mfeldman
I couldn't find the first article you mentioned. But regardless, this does not mean that Baghdad is taking orders from Moscow (if that's what you're getting at, it's hard to tell).

"Communicating" seems reasonable. "Taking orders" doesn't.

See if this works:
Chemical weapons: http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0IMLTG244YPZACRBAE0CF FA?type=topNews&storyID=2440520

Russian jamming equipment:
http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2440111

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by mfeldman


You explained nothing. You made a number of unsupported statements concerning Russia's former military and political support for Iraq, none of which prove (or even explain why) Iraq is currently taking orders from Moscow. I've heard a lot about you JK, but never had the pleasure(?) of engaging you in a thread. If this is the best you can do, count me as underwhelmed....

Mike

No, it goes beyond the idea of a regime in Iraq taking orders from Moscow. That is linear thinking.

Iraq has always turned to the Russians for advice, especially military advice. If they were preparing to use weapons of mass destruction they would consult with one of the super powers. Since one of the only two super powers left in the world is attacking them, that makes their relationship with their comrades in Moscow even more obvious.

Saddam may have just cast a lure into the water to test Russian reaction to the US invasion the previous few days. Iraq has several points they will be keying in on as they debate using WMD, even though that debate is a debate that has them under great urgency and stress:

1) Russia, China, France and Germany were against the Invasion.

2) Saddam believes that he has the full support of all Muslim states of worth as the demonstrations in Muslim states in the past few days proves.

3) Saddam has only weapons of mass destruction with which to defend Baghdad and produce a level of casualties in the US force that could be beneficial for future engagements with the United States, even if Baghdad falls.

The coalition forces surrounding Baghdad now will make it easier for Iraq's forces to target them. They will not be WMD susceptible by Iraqi military forces once they enter Baghdad, unless Saddam is insane and unleashes them against his own people.

Saddam's best hope is to stall the advance and then use WMD. His contact with the Russians was to let them know, IMO.

That pretty much mirrors what I said above if you think about it. It is again, very clear.

BTW, I like your avatar.

JK

[Reager]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


[snip]

That pretty much mirrors what I said above if you think about it. It is again, very clear.

JK

Riiiigght. To quote my favorite adventuring archaeologist, "What a vivid imagination!"

Mike

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by DrBenway


"Communicating" seems reasonable. "Taking orders" doesn't.

See if this works:
Chemical weapons: http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=0IMLTG244YPZACRBAE0CF FA?type=topNews&storyID=2440520

Russian jamming equipment:
http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2440111

The Russians do not view Saddam as a Muslim problem. They view Saddam and Iraq as a rebel Muslim state, an unorthodox state loyal to Russia and geopolitically beneficial to Russia.

The Russians are very unnerved that the Iraqi regime is going away. To the Russians, Iraq is not a Chechnya. That is very important to understand.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by mfeldman


Riiiigght. To quote my favorite adventuring archaeologist, "What a vivid imagination!"

Mike

Genius, actually.

You know, Saddam could pull off a nasty show. If he were to saturate all those pits he has surrounding Baghdad with chem and then burn them, he could make Baghdad pretty much uninhabitable for quite awhile and kill millions of people. I am not certain how the rest of the Muslim populations around the world would handle that, but it would not be good for the United States.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Why didn't Saddam blow up the oil wells in the south? He torched just 9 of them out of hundreds.

That is because he had his troops working on other things.

JK

[DrBenway]

There's another development I find ominous:

After the POW video aired, Iraq was quick to state it was treating all prisoners in accord with the Geneva convention. Later, Iraq changed its position slightly. It said, it was treating prisoners in accord with Islamic Law, and with the Geneva convention, where the latter did not contradict Islamic law.

In my reading of the Muslim press, Iraq is winning some points for emphasizing Islamic Law and subordinating the importance of the Geneva convention.

I reckon Saddam will view this response as an indicator of support in the Muslim world for the use of chemical weapons. He just has to use the right religious buzz words to justify his actions.

Saddam got religion lately.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by DrBenway
There's another development I find ominous:

After the POW video aired, Iraq was quick to state it was treating all prisoners in accord with the Geneva convention. Later, Iraq changed its position slightly. It said, it was treating prisoners in accord with Islamic Law, and with the Geneva convention, where the latter did not contradict Islamic law.

In my reading of the Muslim press, Iraq is winning some points for emphasizing Islamic Law and subordinating the importance of the Geneva convention.

I reckon Saddam will view this response as an indicator of support in the Muslim world for the use of chemical weapons. He just has to use the right religious buzz words to justify his actions.

Saddam got religion lately.

Look at the positive reaction Saddam's regime got when they aired the US soldiers killed on Al Jazeera. Imagine thousands of our troops outside Baghdad being humiliated after being killed by WMD on Al Jazeera. Muslims around the world hostile to the US will go berzerk if that happens. We would probably have to start using nuclear weapons against those fanatics.

Speculation, of course. ;)

JK

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Speculation, of course. ;)
Don't get so excited, JK. Some might think you'd like to see our boys lying poisoned on the desert.

If a disaster like that happened, I'd never forgive this government for its handling of this problem.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by DrBenway

Don't get so excited, JK. Some might think you'd like to see our boys lying poisoned on the desert.

If a disaster like that happened, I'd never forgive this government for its handling of this problem.

I have a lot of experience on the battlefield. If the enemy gets desperate enough, they will either surrender or use every component of their arsenal to attack.

I always said that Al Jazeera was going to be a big problem for the US eventually. When Turner gloated that Al Jazeera would bring "freedom" and "diversity" and "multiculturalism" into the middle east, I laughed pretty hard back then.

Look, there is a chance that this is wrong and Saddam will be too stupid to do what I think he could do. I never said he was smart. Saddam is a megalomaniac and a linear thinker.

Now, his generals certainly are smart enough. We need to zap those guys pretty fast.

JK

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Iraq contacted the Russians and told them: "We need a surgeon because some injuries are out of our control."

That is a code message to request permission from Moscow to use weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is telling the Russians that they are losing complete control of the war and are seeking permission to use the big stuff. They used Saddam in the message or the intent of the message so that the Russians would think it came from the highest echelon of their government as a request.

This is speculation, of course, but it fits in several ways. The first is that Iraq was never short of doctors to treat Saddam. The best surgeons in Iraq have always tended to him. If he was that injured, the Russians wouldn't fly in a doctor anyway because of the war and the isolated airspace. Also, the US has not hit any hospital facilities in Baghdad. There is no need to request "medical" assistance.

No, that message was a message requesting something else. It was a code-blue. I think it is time to recheck the gas-masks.

JK

Is this what you "heard" in the smoking area at your high school?

LOL. What an idiot.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


Is this what you "heard" in the smoking area at your high school?

LOL. What an idiot.

What is with the attitude, Central? Your old lady sharpening someone's pencil?

JK

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


What is with the attitude, Central? Your old lady sharpening someone's pencil?

JK

Is your boyfriend sharpening someones pencil? Whatever that means.

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Is your boyfriend sharpening someones pencil? Whatever that means.

sharpening someone's pencil = playing 'hide the salami'