Why the hatred of Powell?

[a_unique_person]

It is pretty clear that the extreme right hates Powell, judging from comments made here.

I was just wondering, why? He has been totally loyal, done his job, consented to being the fall guy when he made the UN WMD speeches.

His only faults appear to be that he doesn't agree with the Iraq invasion, but he went along with it once it was policy.

[Nyarlathotep]

Because not only does dissent=treason, but insufficient zeal when going witht he program=treason. Thus Powell is a traitor.

Duh.

[Grammatron]

Who hates Powell?

[demon]

AUP:
"he has been totally loyal, done his job, consented to being the fall guy when he made the UN WMD speeches."

Puzzles me too...not like he was really a dove or anything.

The media in the UK (BBC Online's profile for example is a joke), are already clammering to call him "the all-American hero" and that he had a "stellar military career". No mention of course, of his less than honourable role in covering up the My Lai massacre.
("Colin Powell: don't ask about My Lai, don't tell about iran-contra", Russ Kick, http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id803/pg1/)

Is this not considered relevant or did they simply run out of time?

Nor did they mention his role in the Iran-contra affair or his unabashed support for the contras.

Somehow, people overlook his role in persuading Bush Sr. to invade Panama to capture Manuel Noriega, in contravention of international law, and with the likely loss of thousands of citizens.

And let's not forget his being questioned about the total number of Iraqi deaths in the first Gulf War:

"It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in".
(Patrick E. Tyler, "After the War," New York Times, March 23, 1991, p.1.)

And he's the good guy, the restraining influence, the sensible one?
What the hell are the bad guys like then?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Who hates Powell?

On this board the only person I have seen express a hatred of Powell is Patrick, but I have heard a more than a few people express sentiments similar to Patricks in real life. ANd the reason in every case has boiled down to Powell not agreeing 100% with Bush's policies.

[Luke T.]

I like Powell very much. In fact, I was hoping he would be Bush's Vice President this term.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Who hates Powell?

He's referring to a troll, obviously.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Luke T.
I like Powell very much. In fact, I was hoping he would be Bush's Vice President this term.

He still might be, if Cheney's ticker can't hold up.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Luke T.
I like Powell very much. In fact, I was hoping he would be Bush's Vice President this term.

Ditto that. I'd have preferred Condie in the VP seat but Powell would do nicely. He's a bit wimpy for my taste but he's better than a jab in the eye with a red-hot poker.

Patrick is the only one I've heard so far that dis's him but I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Much like the first(?) thread he started on this site (BM/WF or some sort).

First impressions are sometimes the best.

[Luke T.]

It seems the extreme Left hates Powell.

http://www.mathaba.net/news/news1/zc10528panafegal.htm

Africans must beware of United States Secretary of State Colin Powell. He is a Modern Black Slaver. As such, he is far more dangerous to Africa and the Africans worldwide than those who sold their fellow Africans directly into slavery in the earlier centuries.

Powell is a man without valuses, without morals or common decency. He first came to prominence during the US unjust war againt Vietnam. Sent to investigate the Mai Lai Massacre when Vietnamese civilians were bombed with
napalm bombs, his report covered up the massacre. Thus assured of his loyalty to US imperialist interests, he was rapidly promoted through the ranks and made Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/033244

In the Philippines, hundreds of people demonstrated outside the US Embassy, with signs saying, "U.S. imperialist, number 1 terrorist" and "Colin Powell, traitor to his race, murderer of mankind." At least a dozen people were injured in scuffles with the police.


http://iticwebarchives.ssrc.org/International%20Answer/www.internationalanswer.org/news/update/020503powell.html (International A.N.S.W.E.R. archives)

Colin Powell's presentation to the United Nations was an example of Alice in Wonderland-type propaganda.

http://www.therationalradical.com/outrages/colin-powell.htm

Colin Powell has the skin of an African-American, but in 21st century America, that is not where his loyalty lies. Rather, he plays the role of the white man's global overseer.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/12/183155/559

Uncle Tom Powell Stumps for Massah Bush

http://www.blackcommentator.com/14_belafonte.html

HARRY BELAFONTE, ACTIVIST: There's an old saying in the days of slavery. There are those slaves who lived on the plantation, and there were those slaves who lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master. Colin Powell was permitted to come into the house of the master.

[Patrick]

Patrick is the only one I've heard so far that dis's him but I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Much like the first(?) thread he started on this site (BM/WF or some sort).

No doubt about it ... somebody should start a newspaper where you live. The criticism of powell has been extremely widespread on the right and left. I'll leave it as a homework assignment for you to look some of it up. Here's a famous example from a liberal, Harry Belafonte:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-01-21-belafonte_x.htm

Is Belafonte's much like the "BM/WF or some sort"? :D

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Patrick
Patrick is the only one I've heard so far that dis's him but I'm pretty sure he's just trolling. Much like the first(?) thread he started on this site (BM/WF or some sort).

No doubt about it ... somebody should start a newspaper where you live. The criticism of powell has been extremely widespread on the right and left. I'll leave it as a homework assignment for you to look some of it up. Here's a famous example from a liberal, Harry Belafonte:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-01-21-belafonte_x.htm

Is Belafonte's much like the "BM/WF or some sort"? :D

I regard Belafonte's opinion much like I regard yours.

[BPSCG]

Hate him? Absolutely not. I certainly have some problems with how the State Department was run during his tenure, but that's a gripe I have with State no matter who's running it.

I had my doubts about how he would do as a diplomat, since, after all, his training is as a soldier. But I thought he did very well. It was clear he was loyal to the administration even when he didn't completely agree, and I thought he was very effective in presenting the case for the war to free Iraq to the U.N., even if he wasn't able to persuade a few countries that also would have had doubts about O.J Simpson's guilt. And it was clear when you heard him speak that he had a command of the niceties of diplomatic language.

I hear rumors that Condi will succeed him. Second presidential terms are often difficult because the "first team" is usually gone by then. But if Rice becomes Secretary of State, I think that will be one cabinet spot that is at least as good as during Bush's first term. Quite possibly better.

Now who do you get to replace Rice as National Security Advisor without dumbing down the office by about 112 IQ points?

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
He still might be, if Cheney's ticker can't hold up.

That was exactly the scenario I envisioned and posted here last year. However, it would be smarter politics for Cheney to resign after the election before choosing a new VP.

I keep thinking about a book I read in the early 70s or late 60 called The Man in which a black VP becomes President. I forget how the plot went as far as the President dying or whatever, but it results in the black VP becoming President. I don't remember much about it, or the author, just the overall plot.

[clk]

Powell is too moderate. I seriously doubt he would replace Cheney. They would replace Cheney with someone more in line with Bush's radical policies. I will be surprised if Cheney leaves early in the 2nd term...if he leaves, then who's going to run the country?

[Luke T.]

Whoa. I just found it.

http://www.bookbooters.com/b02501.asp

Irving Wallace. How about that. (It just so happens I have Wallace's People's Almanac written in 1974 as my bathroom reader. :D)

And it was a movie with James Earl Jones. I did not know that.

The time is 1964. The place is the Cabinet Room of the White House. An unexpected accident and the law of succession have just made Douglass Dilman the first black President of the United States. This is the theme of what was surely one of the most provocative novels of the 1960s. It takes the reader into the storm center of the presidency, where Dilman, until now an almost unknown senator, must bear the weight of three burdens: his office, his race, and his private life. From beginning to end, The Man is a novel of swift and tremendous drama, as President Dilman attempts to uphold his oath in the face of international crises, domestic dissension, violence, scandal, and ferocious hostility. Push comes to shove in a breathtaking climax, played out in the full glare of publicity, when the Senate of the United States meets for the first time in one hundred years to impeach the President.

[SlippyToad]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
Ditto that. I'd have preferred Condie in the VP seat but Powell would do nicely. She doesn't lie confidently enough to replace Cheney. Have you actually watched her testimony to the 9-11 commission? Compare that to Cheney baldly asserting that he'd never never said "it's pretty well confirmed" that there was an Iraq/Al Queda link. Or for that matter, conjuring up mushroom clouds in the wake of a Kerry win. When Condi lies, she dissembles, she stutters, she fumbles around, and finally hems and haws her way into it just to get it on the record. With Cheney there's none of that. Black is white, up is down, and Eastasia becomes Eurasia, with firm equivocation.

Of course we can all see why Powell is right out . . .

[Regnad Kcin]

Re: LukeT's post about The Man:...Push comes to shove in a breathtaking climax, played out in the full glare of publicity, when the Senate of the United States meets for the first time in one hundred years to impeach the President.Impeachment? Well, it's said that Bill C. was the "first black president."

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Regnad Kcin
Re: LukeT's post about The Man:Impeachment? Well, it's said that Bill C. was the "first black president." It was an okay book, and a terrible movie. Trivia answer for Luke: Dilman becomes president after the VP dies suddenly of a heart attack and he (Dilman) is president pro tem of the senate (forget why - that's normally given to the oldest senator around, if I'm not mistaken). Then the president and speaker of the house die while they're on a trip in Germany, when an old castle collapses on them.

A lot of the characters are pretty cartoonish, in particular the redneck southern congressman trying to get him impeached on trumped-up charges and the secretary of state..

Jeeze - didn't realize I'd remembered so much about it...

[TillEulenspiegel]

Colin Powell deserves nothing but respect for the long years of service to his country.
Many say that he was either weakling or a scoundrel for putting forth Bush's policies.
He was neither. The man was doing a job and his job was to put the best face on the presidents policies even if he disagreed with them. He did that job honorably and with grace.

You want an apologist for Sec. of State and a hawk as Sec. of Defense. It is by some weird juxtaposition of the stars that the man who spent his life as a warrior and some ideologue like Rummy had their roles reversed, but the man did an admirable job. I am unhappy that people like him opt out of politics because of the cost of their positions. Those are the people we need, not the self-serving politicians.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by demon
AUP:
"he has been totally loyal, done his job, consented to being the fall guy when he made the UN WMD speeches."

Puzzles me too...not like he was really a dove or anything.

The media in the UK (BBC Online's profile for example is a joke), are already clammering to call him "the all-American hero" and that he had a "stellar military career". No mention of course, of his less than honourable role in covering up the My Lai massacre.
("Colin Powell: don't ask about My Lai, don't tell about iran-contra", Russ Kick, http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id803/pg1/)

Is this not considered relevant or did they simply run out of time?

Nor did they mention his role in the Iran-contra affair or his unabashed support for the contras.

Somehow, people overlook his role in persuading Bush Sr. to invade Panama to capture Manuel Noriega, in contravention of international law, and with the likely loss of thousands of citizens.

And let's not forget his being questioned about the total number of Iraqi deaths in the first Gulf War:

"It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in".
(Patrick E. Tyler, "After the War," New York Times, March 23, 1991, p.1.)

And he's the good guy, the restraining influence, the sensible one?
What the hell are the bad guys like then?

I wasn't commenting so much on what I thought of his policies, but that there was hatred for a guy who did his job, better than many others on his side of politics.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by BPSCG
I thought he was very effective in presenting the case for the war to free Iraq to the U.N., even if he wasn't able to persuade a few countries that also would have had doubts about O.J Simpson's guilt. Yeah, those dummies who actually had doubts about WMD. Imagine that.

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by Patrick
[B] The criticism of powell has been extremely widespread on the right and left. And yet, at around 70%, his approval rating dwarfs that of the President.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Patrick
The criticism of powell has been extremely widespread on the right and left. I'll leave it as a homework assignment for you to look some of it up.

That's not how it works here. I would like either you or AUP to supply links to these "extremely widespread" criticisms of Powell from the right. Aside from the nazis and klansmen, who hate all blacks on principle.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Luke T.
That's not how it works here. I would like either you or AUP to supply links to these "extremely widespread" criticisms of Powell from the right. Aside from the nazis and klansmen, who hate all blacks on principle.

I didn't say it was widespread, I was just surprised it was there and wondered why. Patrick is hardly representative of all JREF, but he would represent a train of thought that some Americans would follow.

[Patrick]

That's not how it works here. I would like either you or AUP to supply links to these "extremely widespread" criticisms of Powell from the right. Aside from the nazis and klansmen, who hate all blacks on principle.

Here's a flash for you on how I work - I'm not in this world to tutor you. Go to google and search on "criticism" and "powell". Gosh, it's easy.

[The Don]

Originally posted by Patrick
That's not how it works here. I would like either you or AUP to supply links to these "extremely widespread" criticisms of Powell from the right. Aside from the nazis and klansmen, who hate all blacks on principle.

Here's a flash for you on how I work - I'm not in this world to tutor you. Go to google and search on "criticism" and "powell". Gosh, it's easy.
Translation to English....

I just spout ill-founded generalisms with no basis in fact. If I were to try and seek out sources I would be forced to fact up to this. Instead, I'll get others to do my searches for me so that I can claim bias on their part when they post the results.

[Zep]

My expressions of support for Powell are well-known on this forum - I have posted them here often. He has his faults and blemishes, but his record and capabilities exceed anyone in the current cabinet, including Condi Rice. I think he'll be back.

[a_unique_person]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/21/1100972253536.html

One reason I hadn't thought of.



Colin Powell, the outgoing US Secretary of State, was given his marching orders after telling President George Bush that he wanted greater power to confront Israel over the stalled Middle East peace process.

Although Mr Powell's departure was announced on November 15, his letter of resignation was dated November 11, the day he had a meeting with Mr Bush.

According to White House officials, Mr Powell was not asked to stay on and gave no hints that he would do so. Briefing reporters later, he referred to "fulsome discussions" - diplomatic code for disagreements.

Friends of Mr Powell later briefed journalists that he had changed his mind because he saw the chance of progress on the peace process and wanted to see through the Iraqi elections.

"The clincher came over the Mid-East peace process," said a recently retired State Department official. "Powell thought he could use the credit he had banked as the President's 'good cop' in foreign policy to rein in Ariel Sharon (Israel's Prime Minister) and get the peace process going. He was wrong." Mr Powell will visit Israel and the Palestinian territories early this week to promote a smooth transition of power after the death of leader Yasser Arafat.

[Dorian Gray]

Here's a flash for you on how I work - I'm not in this world to tutor you. Go to google and search on "criticism" and "powell". Gosh, it's easy.

http://www.othersteve.com/images/cluelesswindow.gif

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Patrick
That's not how it works here. I would like either you or AUP to supply links to these "extremely widespread" criticisms of Powell from the right. Aside from the nazis and klansmen, who hate all blacks on principle.

Here's a flash for you on how I work - I'm not in this world to tutor you. Go to google and search on "criticism" and "powell". Gosh, it's easy.

Don't make claims without knowing you can back them up. And here's a flash for you. When you google "criticism" and "Powell", you get links to Harry Belafonte (a leftie!!!), which I already posted, plus criticisms by Powell about various subjects. Not one damn shred of evidence to support your claim, genius. So maybe you should take your own advice about googling before talking out your ass.