PETA beyond crazy

[DangerousBeliefs]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish -- contrary to stereotype -- are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/16/fish.empathy.ap/index.html

If fish are so smart... why do they all get caught so easily?

[Earthborn]

If fish are so smart... why do they all get caught so easily?Dolphins get caught fairly easily, but there is little doubt that they are quite smart. I also bet it is easy for a human diver to get caught in a net.

The article you linked to puts your question in an interesting light:Chris Glass of the Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences in Massachusetts led another recent study, showing how North Sea haddock developed abilities to avoid trawlers' nets.Something else that caught my attention:Friedrich questioned why there is popular support for sparing marine mammals -- dolphins and porpoises -- yet minimal concern for species like tuna, "whose suffering would warrant felony animal cruelty charges if they were mammals.""Okay, flipper... You are under arrest for the brutal serial murder of tuna fish."

Oh, well. Let's not think too much of the people who supported causing a foot-and-mouth epidemic in the US to show their love for animals...

[Elind]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
NEW YORK (AP) -- Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish -- contrary to stereotype -- are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/16/fish.empathy.ap/index.html

If fish are so smart... why do they all get caught so easily?

They're not so smart, but they have smarts. I have a large saltwater aquarium with fish that I have raised for over 8 years. When I come near the tank they beg for food; when I have guests they head for the rocks; and they have a real pecking order amongst each other.

But; so do chickens and I eat chickens and fish among other things.

[Eos of the Eons]

Marine mammals aren't "fish", and I don't see any canned dolphins on the store shelves. Tuna and salmon and pike and etc. etc. are fish.

These people don't want anyone eating meat, period. Too bad for them that most of us recognize that a diet with meat is cheaper than trying to get all nutrition by plant matter. I don't want to foot a vegetarian bill for feeding my family. If I was rich, sure, but I like meat and fish.

So what's next? Shrimp?

[Elind]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Marine mammals aren't "fish", and I don't see any canned dolphins on the store shelves. Tuna and salmon and pike and etc. etc. are fish.

These people don't want anyone eating meat, period. Too bad for them that most of us recognize that a diet with meat is cheaper than trying to get all nutrition by plant matter. I don't want to foot a vegetarian bill for feeding my family. If I was rich, sure, but I like meat and fish.

So what's next? Shrimp?

Dolphins aren't fish. Neither are humans, which were also mentioned. I think you read the post too fast.

:D

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Elind
Dolphins aren't fish. Neither are humans, which were also mentioned. I think you read the post too fast.

:D :p I wasn't referring to your post. Or any others' really. I quote if I actually refer to a specific other persons' quote though.
I bet some of those PETA folks do consider dolphins to be fish. If not, then they shouldn't whine since it is fish on the store shelves, and not mammals. Er, not dolphins. I eat mammals all the time too. And yeah, they are on the store shelves.

Do PETA folks lump fish in with dolphins?

Oh, and what about them fish eating sharks and bears and etc.

Is PETA only going to condemn humans for eating them?

Um, food chain. Fact of life. Meat yummy.

Basically my point. PETA folks are being nutty again. Going back to read other posts now...all of them. I do often post without reading much of other posts.

I'm probably re-stating the person's post that did mention the dolphins and humans.

[Eos of the Eons]

Aren't most marine mammals having a population problem? Other mammals that we DO eat on a regular basis aren't going extinct any time soon.

I think PETA forgets this when remarking about how we make a stink about marine mammals being killed.

[Xeriar]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Aren't most marine mammals having a population problem? Other mammals that we DO eat on a regular basis aren't going extinct any time soon.

I think PETA forgets this when remarking about how we make a stink about marine mammals being killed.

Tigers, elephants, and whales spring to mind. Not that we kill them that regularly any longer, but a lot of poaching still goes on, for various reasons.

[Eos of the Eons]

Tigers, elephants, and whales spring to mind. Right, and you won't find those animals in your local meat market either :D

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons

Oh, and what about them fish eating sharks and bears and etc.


Well, that's because animals eating other animals is "natural", but of course, humans eating animals isn't. Humans should not touch, assist, use, detain, give medical attention to, or breathe on any animal at all. In fact, humans shouldn't even look at animals, unless it's from a distance. A very large distance.

[Doghouse Reilly]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Marine mammals aren't "fish", and I don't see any canned dolphins on the store shelves. Tuna and salmon and pike and etc. etc. are fish.

These people don't want anyone eating meat, period. Too bad for them that most of us recognize that a diet with meat is cheaper than trying to get all nutrition by plant matter. I don't want to foot a vegetarian bill for feeding my family. If I was rich, sure, but I like meat and fish.

So what's next? Shrimp?

I'm surprised to hear you mention that you believe a vegetarian diet is more expensive than a diet containing meat. I've been a vegetarian for a decade now (as an aside, I, unlike PETA, really don't care whether you or anyone else chooses to eat meat), and I've found it to be far far cheaper than eating meat. Meat just can't compare pricewise to fruits and grains and tubers....ever priced a huge bag of brown rice, or a giant sack of potatoes?
That's why it's the richest nations that consume the most meat. The poorer countries base their diets around roots or grains.
In any case, enjoy your food choices no matter what they may be :)

[Loon]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly
I'm surprised to hear you mention that you believe a vegetarian diet is more expensive than a diet containing meat. I've been a vegetarian for a decade now (as an aside, I, unlike PETA, really don't care whether you or anyone else chooses to eat meat), and I've found it to be far far cheaper than eating meat. Meat just can't compare pricewise to fruits and grains and tubers....ever priced a huge bag of brown rice, or a giant sack of potatoes?
That's why it's the richest nations that consume the most meat. The poorer countries base their diets around roots or grains.
In any case, enjoy your food choices no matter what they may be :)

The only real issue w/ vegetarianism is paying a bit more attention to what you eat. And if you're an ovo-lacto vegetarian, you don't have to worry about that so much either.

However, things like tuna are cheap for protein density. Fruits and grains and tubers (that word clearly was NOT generated by the marketing department) don't have the protein density that tuna has. (Of course, eggs are the best)

[Xeriar]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Right, and you won't find those animals in your local meat market either :D

We nearly drove them to extinction before the ban, and several species are still endangered.

The Tazmanian dog was intentionally hunted to extinction as well.

Outside of policies like the latter, some species can handle our voracious apetite, others can't. It's a function of how easily the population gets replaced.

As another counterpoint, I heard somewhere that Hudson Bay is nearly stripped clean of fish, because Canada subsidizes fishing there. I need to look that up...

[Piscivore]

I'm glad PETA members are abstaining from fish. I hope they convince lots of other people to do so also.







More for me. :D

[Ove]

Marine mammals aren't "fish", and I don't see any canned dolphins on the store shelves.
That is because you don't know where to look. I read that the big boats catching Tuna and Mackerel for the can-fish industry, catches a lot of dolphins too and i really don't think they just heave them overboard (Some cans are in fact labelled "Do not contain Dolphin").I'm surprised to hear you mention that you believe a vegetarian diet is more expensive than a diet containing meat. I've been a vegetarian for a decade now (as an aside, I, unlike PETA, really don't care whether you or anyone else chooses to eat meat), and I've found it to be far far cheaper than eating meat. Meat just can't compare pricewise to fruits and grains and tubers....ever priced a huge bag of brown rice, or a giant sack of potatoes?
True, my mothers generation knew a lot of tricks to get a small amount of meat to go a long way. The best trick was to make a good gravy so that people would eat lot of potatoes, they often did that by boiling the meatballs-sausage-whatever before frying and then using the boiling water as base for the gravy. My mother DID make a h*lluva good gravy. ;)
In any case, enjoy your food choices no matter what they may be
I do and i hope you do too, nothing like a good juicy steak, served with sauce Bernaise, salad and a baked potato with garlic butter.:arrow: To this feast i would drink a good dark Ale or Stout, something like a Killkenny but preferably from my local Microbrewery.:D

[Coeloptera]

Actually, I take issue with this statement from PETA

"The project was inspired by several recent scientific studies -- widely reported in Britain but little-noticed in the United States -- detailing facets of fish intelligence.

Oxford University researcher Theresa Burt de Perera, for example, reported that the blind Mexican cave fish is able to interpret water pressure changes to construct a detailed mental map of its surroundings."

Well, that's all well and good, but that says next to nothing about what we might quantify as "self-awareness" or "problem-solving ability".

See, the common housefly can calculate its own velocity, the distance of obstacles, the direction of its flight, and the orientation of its body better than any jet pilot alive, even -with- his onboard systems feeding him information. But that doesn't make a fly "intelligent" in any meaningful sense.

Just because an animal can process a limited set of data very well doesn't make it "intelligent" in the way most people think of that term. You may as well say that a mass spectrometer is "intelligent" because it can determine composition via electromagnetic emissions.

Most arthropods, fish, and reptiles seem to be only as smart as they need to be to survive in their environment, due to their having highly limited social structures, if they have any. Only in animals with social structures of sufficient complexity like cetaceans, primates, dogs, parrots, and corvids, do we see high-level problem-solving skills. We do also see it in pigs, mind you, but there you go.

Ants, bees, and other colonial insects are something of a special case. Some researchers do prefer to think of the colony as a "super-organism" and the indivdual insects as units in that organism.

So while it's very nice that "They can learn from their environment and experience." , so can a lot of animals that no one would reasonably label as "intelligent".

- Coeloptera

"The ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence." - Robert J. Shiller

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly
I'm surprised to hear you mention that you believe a vegetarian diet is more expensive than a diet containing meat. I've been a vegetarian for a decade now (as an aside, I, unlike PETA, really don't care whether you or anyone else chooses to eat meat), and I've found it to be far far cheaper than eating meat. Meat just can't compare pricewise to fruits and grains and tubers....ever priced a huge bag of brown rice, or a giant sack of potatoes?
That's why it's the richest nations that consume the most meat. The poorer countries base their diets around roots or grains.
In any case, enjoy your food choices no matter what they may be :)

I agree. I don't see how the argument a meat diet is cheaper can possibly be supported. Raising animals requires a far greater input of labour and resources per 'meal' than any crop and, consequently, costs more. It is only in our richer economies where meat is not considered a luxury item.

We aren't vegetarian, but cut our meat intake down to two meals per week for health reasons. It's significantly cheaper too. Unfortunately, our tendency to eat fish, shellfish and crustaceans is not cheaper but is much nicer on the taste-buds!

[Anders]

Originally posted by Coeloptera
Actually, I take issue with this statement from PETA

[I]"The project was inspired by several recent scientific studies -- widely reported in Britain but little-noticed in the United States -- detailing facets of fish intelligence.
Personally, I couldn't care less about my food's previous intelligence. I'm quite sure that a cow is more intelligent than a tuna, but I sure as hell eat both of them.

This is a question about morale, and PETA followers somehow thinks (it just my theory) that there is just one morale to follow, and we all meat eaters are not moral. Truth is, there are a lot of moral standards out there. I have one set of moral, some Christians another set, some muslim yet another set, and so on.

[Coeloptera]

Originally posted by Anders
Personally, I couldn't care less about my food's previous intelligence. I'm quite sure that a cow is more intelligent than a tuna, but I sure as hell eat both of them.

This is a question about morale, and PETA followers somehow thinks (it just my theory) that there is just one morale to follow, and we all meat eaters are not moral. Truth is, there are a lot of moral standards out there. I have one set of moral, some Christians another set, some muslim yet another set, and so on.

You know, I wonder what PETA's take on eating arthropods is. Anyone know? I'd love to hear them try and squirm their way out of that one. No one, and I mean no one is going to believe that lobsters and shrimp are "intelligent". Many animals simply do not react to pain and damage the way we do. Ants can be clipped in half and will still continue to perform duties and, when in battle, severed ant heads will try to bite intruders to their colony.

Heck, some species of ants act as living bombs, rupturing their abdomen and spraying caustic glue all over intruders when necessary. I can't imagine they're running on more than instinct and some data processing there.

- Coeloptera

"The wise are instructed by reason; ordinary minds by experience; the stupid, by necessity; and brutes by instinct." - Cicero

[rebecca]

I'll be another to assert that being a vegetarian is not more expensive than eating meat. Point A: $2 of tofu can last me a month. Point B: C'mon, the vegetarian burrito is always at least $1 cheaper than the beef burrito. :D

[The Don]

Originally posted by rebecca
I'll be another to assert that being a vegetarian is not more expensive than eating meat. Point A: $2 of tofu can last me a month
As a confirmed carnivore I can assure you that a $2 can of tofu would last indefinitely round these parts

[Loon]

a $2 what of tofu? I know tofu is cheap, but $2 worth lasting a month? Call me skeptical (yeah, I know. haha.)

But beans on the other hand... Wow. 10 lbs for like $3. You can eat for ages.

[Prester John]

Originally posted by The Don
As a confirmed carnivore I can assure you that a $2 can of tofu would last indefinitely round these parts

LOL :) same here!

[rebecca]

Originally posted by Loon
a $2 what of tofu? I know tofu is cheap, but $2 worth lasting a month? Call me skeptical (yeah, I know. haha.)

But beans on the other hand... Wow. 10 lbs for like $3. You can eat for ages.

Hold on, let me check the fridge . . . OK, 14oz of Nasoya Extra Firm Tofu, $1.99.

Of course, I'm not eating it for three large meals a day, but yeah, it'll last me a while. Hrm, actually I think it's lasted me a while already. Anybody know how long before I should chuck this?


edited to add: normally I charge a fee for setting up jokes this easy, but the next person to answer the above question can have that one for free. The next will cost you double, though.

[Loon]

Originally posted by rebecca
Hold on, let me check the fridge . . . OK, 14oz of Nasoya Extra Firm Tofu, $1.99.

Of course, I'm not eating it for three large meals a day, but yeah, it'll last me a while. Hrm, actually I think it's lasted me a while already. Anybody know how long before I should chuck this?


edited to add: normally I charge a fee for setting up jokes this easy, but the next person to answer the above question can have that one for free. The next will cost you double, though.

14 oz? You must not eat much. That would last me just long enough to grab a frying pan and some veggies.

I think tofu is good for at most a week, and that you need to change the water frequently. However, I'm not sure of the consequences of eating old tofu.

I hope I have interrupted the timing of an anti-tofu joke.

[bignickel]

I've been a vegetarian for 4 years, but everytime I read PETA's latest goofiness, I have a sudden craving to eat meat, just to spite them.

(I'd get sick to my stomach if I tried that, of course)

[Psi Baba]

Originally posted by bignickel
I've been a vegetarian for 4 years, but everytime I read PETA's latest goofiness, I have a sudden craving to eat meat, just to spite them.

(I'd get sick to my stomach if I tried that, of course)
You could just buy the meat and give it to a friend. (Next time you feel like spiting PETA, PM me for my address.) :D
I'm not vegetarian, but I can support Rebecca's example with another: I love Hormel's canned chili (hey, call it a weakness), but I HATE kidney beans. Luckily for me Hormel makes a No Beans version. But, it costs more. No beans means more meat. Well, perhaps I should put "meat" in quotes when I say that. I suspect that in a product like this there's a good amount of soy filler in that "meat," but at least it ain't kidney beans!

[anonimouse]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
NEW YORK (AP) -- Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish -- contrary to stereotype -- are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/16/fish.empathy.ap/index.html

If fish are so smart... why do they all get caught so easily?

Furthermore, you would think that centuries of collective knowledge would've taught a fish that if they saw a worm attached to a shiny metal object that they should avoid said worm. Then again, I can "Jedi Mind Trick" my teenage nieces and nephews on a regular basis, so maybe that's apropos of nothing.

[Loon]

Originally posted by bignickel
I've been a vegetarian for 4 years, but everytime I read PETA's latest goofiness, I have a sudden craving to eat meat, just to spite them.

(I'd get sick to my stomach if I tried that, of course)

You could go and purchase something that uses animal products or meat byproducts. Lots of snacks and stuff use lard or beef extract or whatever. I don't think these would make you sick.

And happily, nobody else has blasphemed tofu.

[Eos of the Eons]

Sure, the price of a sack of rice is cheaper than a roast...by weight. However, try feeding a family of five adequate nutrition on a vegetarian diet. The food prep alone has me running scared. Of course, an education on vegetarian diet would be interesting if anyone wants to let us know how they do it every day. It would be great if one could explain how one could feed a large family a vegetarian diet cheaply and quickly.

Oh, and convince me how to get kids to eat it. My son won't even touch stirfry. My daughter will eat meat before anything else on her plate. She's a good lil' carnivore :D

[rebecca]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Sure, the price of a sack of rice is cheaper than a roast...by weight. However, try feeding a family of five adequate nutrition on a vegetarian diet. The food prep alone has me running scared. Of course, an education on vegetarian diet would be interesting if anyone wants to let us know how they do it every day. It would be great if one could explain how one could feed a large family a vegetarian diet cheaply and quickly.

Oh, and convince me how to get kids to eat it. My son won't even touch stirfry. My daughter will eat meat before anything else on her plate. She's a good lil' carnivore :D


Well, there are tons of great cookbooks out there on vegetarian cooking, and lots with an emphasis on big, nutritious meals for families. So short of listing recipes here, I'm not sure what you want. I don't have any personal experience with feeding more than myself (well, except for at dinner parties and such, at which I've always had a lot of fun making big veggie meals for everyone, and rarely found it difficult, and I'm a terrible cook).

And I could maybe convince you that you can get kids, in general, to eat vegetarian fare, but I have no idea if one could get YOUR kids to eat it. I mean, it just depends on how they're raised. But most kids eat vegetarian food all the time. Peanut butter and jelly, salads, pasta, pizza, burritos . . . all that stuff can be made (and in the case of PB&J, probably should be made) without meat.

See, the thing is that it's not hard, and it's not expensive, but if you weren't raised vegetarian you have to learn about it, and you have to have a few go's at cooking like that before you get good at it. Same thing if a lifelong vegetarian started cooking meat for their family. It's difficult, when's the meat done, how do you season it, it tastes like garbage, etc.

If you don't want to work at it, then don't bother, just keep feeding your family what you've always fed them. So long as they're healthy and happy, who cares?

[HarryKeogh]

I tried to eat vegetarian after seeing this special on HBO where they showed cats being cooked alive in the far east somewhere.

Then I found all I was eating was cereal, pizza and fries. Not very healthy. And tofu, if I added enough stuff to eat I could almost make it palatable but just too much trouble.

So now I like my steak medium rare and buy my cat plenty of toys to alleviate my guilt.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Earthborn
I also bet it is easy for a human diver to get caught in a net.

no. no. not touching that one with a ten foot pole...

[rebecca]

By the by, upon re-reading my post, some of it may have sounded harsher than I meant. I really do think that if you find it too difficult to feed yourself and/or your family without including meat, than just include meat. No reason you should be miserable. Here, add a bunch of these to my previous post:

:) :D :) :) :o (what's that mean?) :) :) :)

[richardm]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Right, and you won't find those animals in your local meat market either :D

You might be surprised by what you can find. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3371801.stm) Bushmeat is actually quite a worrying problem. Some estimates place the amount being smuggled into the UK as high as 10 tonnes a day.

[HarryKeogh]

Rebecca, when you find out what :o means could you please tell me the appropriate time to use :h1:


or :vk:

[Coeloptera]

Originally posted by richardm
You might be surprised by what you can find. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3371801.stm) Bushmeat is actually quite a worrying problem. Some estimates place the amount being smuggled into the UK as high as 10 tonnes a day.

You know, I read that article and frankly, the sentence is a pathetic joke.

There's an awful lot of back-patting by environmental health and the judicial system for a miserable three month sentence for 23 counts of "the worst offence of contravening the act to have come before the court".

Yes, they most certainly sent "an important message to those that commercially trade in bushmeat in Haringey". That message being the fact that you'll get a slap on the wrist and jail time you can laugh off for a crime that obviously makes some money or no one would bother doing it.

The congragulatory tone of that article just astounds me.

- Coeloptera

"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good." - Confucius

[Checkmite]

If god didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat. :)

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with vegetarian fare on occasion; I have gone entire three-meal days without eating meat. Back in the "good old days", humans were forced to eat meat out of necessity - basically a lack of options. Even when man discovered agriculture, he could only blend fruits and veggies with a meat-heavy diet, as they simply couldn't produce enough from the ground to live on it exclusively.

I think it is a testament to how far human culture is advanced, that we have such a selection of food that we can choose to eat vegetables exclusively. Variety is the spice of life.

[Eos of the Eons]

Pizza, pasta, burritos with no meat??? You're killing me here :D

I always make my pastas with meat sauce. I can't stand plain bean burritos, and pizza without meat is okay, but I still prefer ham or something.

I guess I'm just not the least bit interested, even though I'm allergic to milk and cheese. I could go no animal products at all then, but I really really don't wanna :)

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Even if they do suffer woopdidoo! Life has to eat other life unless you're an autotroph.
Sometimes comedians make good observations.
"My feeling is this--we ran from the animals for 3 million years. It's our time now. Animals have two vital functions in today's society--to be delicious, and to fit well. Now there was a woman a couple years ago who was gored while videotaping the running of the bulls in Pamplona. 'I'm here to help!' And I felt bad. But it proves my point about cows, ladies and gentlemen. When it comes to cows, it's them or us, right? If the cow could eat you, it would. And it wouldn't really care how comfortable your truck ride over was, either. 'Hi! How was your trip? Moo!' *chomp* That's it, it'd bite your ass right off. 'But I'd never be cruel to an animal, wa wa wa...' Of course you would. If you were trapped in the arctic freezing to death, you'd kill a baby harp seal with a plastic picnic spoon. Just for the chance to crawl inside it and luxuriate in the warmth of real fur."-Greg Proops

[rebecca]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Pizza, pasta, burritos with no meat??? You're killing me here :D

I always make my pastas with meat sauce. I can't stand plain bean burritos, and pizza without meat is okay, but I still prefer ham or something.

I guess I'm just not the least bit interested, even though I'm allergic to milk and cheese. I could go no animal products at all then, but I really really don't wanna :)

Ah, that's okay, I know how you feel. I can't eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without a little ground beef mixed in. Mmm, PBJ&GB, that's the stuff.

:p

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly:
Meat just can't compare pricewise to fruits and grains and tubers....ever priced a huge bag of brown rice, or a giant sack of potatoes?

Indeed, however when it comes to providing your essential amino acids, however huge the bag of rice, and regardless of how gigantic the sack of potatoes is, both will let you down.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Shane Costello
Indeed, however when it comes to providing your essential amino acids, however huge the bag of rice, and regardless of how gigantic the sack of potatoes is, both will let you down.
Yeah, but as a big time meat eater I say that vegetarians can eat a healthy diet. It may take a bit more work, but that's the price they pay to follow their conscience.
That said, the only times in my life I've had a bad thought about vegetarians in my head it involved some PETA moron dressed as a cow holding a sign that equated meat eating with murder, genocide, etc.
They do more harm than good.
I've never had a veggie say anything to me about what I eat, ever, and I have no interest in what they eat. That's the real world, which PETA members seem not to live in.

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Brian
Yeah, but as a big time meat eater I say that vegetarians can eat a healthy diet. It may take a bit more work, but that's the price they pay to follow their conscience.
That said, the only times in my life I've had a bad thought about vegetarians in my head it involved some PETA moron dressed as a cow holding a sign that equated meat eating with murder, genocide, etc.
They do more harm than good.
I've never had a veggie say anything to me about what I eat, ever, and I have no interest in what they eat. That's the real world, which PETA members seem not to live in.

Agreed. I have actually known one who would go off on a militant rant on the subject of other people's diet choices. Though I think he was generally a tosser on most things. I kind of parted company with him after he physically threatened a girl we knew for taking a saturday job in a local butchers. No, honestly, I wasn't looking forward to free burgers with the slap and tickle. Not at all.

There is plenty of rationality in whether or not one chooses to eat meat, I'm not sure there is a need to characterise all vegetarians as fundamentalist bunny-cuddlers.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Benguin
Though I think he was generally a tosser on most things. I kind of parted company with him after he physically threatened a girl we knew for taking a saturday job in a local butchers.

There is plenty of rationality in whether or not one chooses to eat meat, I'm not sure there is a need to characterise all vegetarians as fundamentalist bunny-cuddlers.

If he was threatening people it's not a problem with what's in his stomach so much as what's in his head.

I cuddle my bunnies quite often.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Brian:
Yeah, but as a big time meat eater I say that vegetarians can eat a healthy diet. It may take a bit more work, but that's the price they pay to follow their conscience.

Indeed, but the point I was trying to make was that rice and spuds aren't a good source of essential aa's, not that the same is true of vegetarianism in general.

I've never had a veggie say anything to me about what I eat, ever, and I have no interest in what they eat. That's the real world, which PETA members seem not to live in.

One of my best friends is a veggie. He's so laid back about his dietary choices that he's currently writing a PhD on how to minimise bacterial infection of beef. This involved him spending long hours in our research abattoir, swabbing cattle carcasses and hides.

[Rob Lister]

I just wanted to pipe in (rather late) to say that PETA is not beyond crazy. They are very, very smart.

They got their silly message on every news station in america.

They have a PR department that rocks.

(p.s. They headquarter in my town, vabch, va.

[garys_2k]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
I just wanted to pipe in (rather late) to say that PETA is not beyond crazy. They are very, very smart.

They got their silly message on every news station in america.

They have a PR department that rocks.

(p.s. They headquarter in my town, vabch, va.
Aren't they the ones that splash blood (maybe fake blood) on women wearing furs? It'd be a lot more fun if they'd pull that stunt on bikers wearing leather -- I wonder why they never do that. I bet that would get on the news, too.

[Nex]

Originally posted by garys_2k
Aren't they the ones that splash blood (maybe fake blood) on women wearing furs? It'd be a lot more fun if they'd pull that stunt on bikers wearing leather -- I wonder why they never do that. I bet that would get on the news, too.
I'd pay a PeTA member $50 to try splashing blood on my stepfather's leather-clad biker group. Then I'd kick back with a beer and some hot wings and watch the fun ensue.

Well, maybe not. I'd probably have to be a witness in court... :p

On-topic: I was vegetarian for about a year before I had to have major liver surgery. I went from slightly anemic to really anemic, and I decided to listen to my hospital-appointed nutritionist and start eating dead cows again. I know you can get all the iron you need from veggies, but my levels didn't increase until after I started on meat again. *shrugs* To each their own.