Al-Zarqawi terrorist training camp discovered in Fallujah?

[demon]

U.S. May Have Found Fallujah Militant Base
Thursday November 18, 2004
By TINI TRAN
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - U.S. troops sweeping through Fallujah on Thursday said they believe they have found the main headquarters of the insurgent group headed by Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

In video shot by an embedded CNN cameraman, soldiers walked through an imposing building with concrete columns and with a large sign in Arabic on the wall reading "Al Qaida Organization" and "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."

Inside the building, U.S. soldiers found documents, old computers, notebooks, photographs and copies of the Quran.

Al-Zarqawi last month renamed his group al-Qaida in Iraq, and his followers have been blamed for a number of deadly bombings and beheadings of foreign hostages, including three Americans and a Briton. The United States has offered a $25 million reward for his capture or killing - the same amount as for Osama bin Laden.

In neighboring Jordan, authorities detained al-Zarqawi's nephew near the border with Iraq, a distant relative and a clergyman close to the family said Thursday.

The clergyman and the relative, both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity, said security officials had informed the family that Mohammed al-Harahsheh was detained last month. The relative said al-Harahsheh was being questioned on suspicion of attempting to infiltrate into Iraq to join his militant uncle.

Calls to Al-Zarqawi's family home in Zarqa, an industrial city northeast of the Jordanian capital, Amman, went unanswered.

Also, the senior U.S. Marine commander in Iraq said the U.S.-led offensive launched last week in Fallujah has "broken the back of the insurgency" by seizing their main base of operations.

"We feel right now that we have, as I mentioned, broken the back of the insurgency. We've taken away this safe haven," Lt. Gen. John Sattler told reporters at the Pentagon in a video teleconference from Fallujah.

Sattler's conclusion was far more optimistic than an assessment made shortly before the offensive by Marine intelligence officers, who said the insurgency would rebound if U.S. troop levels in the area were significantly reduced after the offensive.

Sattler cautioned, however, that insurgents remained a threat. A group attacked U.S. Marines and Iraqi government forces from a house inside Fallujah on Thursday, killing one Marine and one Iraqi soldier, Sattler said. One Marine and one Iraqi soldier also were wounded.

Sattler said the total U.S. death toll so far in the Fallujah offensive, which began Nov. 7, stands at 51, with about 425 wounded in action.

U.S. and Iraqi forces arrested 104 suspected guerrillas in an insurgent neighborhood in central Baghdad, including nine who are believed to have fled Fallujah, Interior Ministry spokesman Sabah Khadim said. Most were Iraqis, although Syrians and non-Iraqi Arabs were among the group, he said.
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" Several command and control centers operated by insurgents have been discovered in Falluja, a top Marine officer said today, but he denied reports that one of them was the headquarters of the Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi..." --Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, commander of the First Marine Expeditionary Force, said at a briefing outside Falluja , reported in the New York Times
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"Al Qaida Organization" - priceless!!

Falluja was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Zarqawi got away.
Tora Bora was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Bin Laden got away.
This is getting to be a habit, just like the crap propaganda.

Cue passports to come fluttering down from the sky soon.

Remarkably forgetful, those Islamist terrorists. If they look after their keys the way they look after their Holy Books, they must pay a fortune in locksmiths' fees.

"Now where did you leave that Koran? Dammit, Ali, you`ve a head like a sieve...That Ali...[sigh]...his mind's always on the next suicide hijack mission. Hey Ali, do your flies up!"

Terrifying.

[shecky]

"...soldiers walked through an imposing building with concrete columns and with a large sign in Arabic on the wall reading "Al Qaida Organization"

That does sound pretty funny. :D

The business cards must have read:
"Terroism is our speciality!
Reasonable rates
Fully licensed and bonded"

[The Fool]

The large "secret Hideout parking at rear" sign out the front probably gave them away...

[Jim Bowen]

and the coach park full of tourists on a tour of the 'secret hideout' probably didn't help either.

Anyway, what sort of secret hideout is it that doesn't have its own monorail? At the very least there should be mention of a pool of piranahas or some other sign of badness. Personally, If I was in charge of looking for a secret hideout, I'd immediately start looking to see if any extinct volcanoes have appeared in the country.

Jim Bowen

[The Fool]

what about sharks with lazer beams on thier heads? Any found?

[Atlas]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. War can be funny, huh.

Don't you hate the fact that more civilians weren't killed? They escaped the city too. If we wouldn't have dropped all those leaflets and let them leave we could have nuked the city and got them all.

Boy that would have been funny, wouldn't it?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by The Fool
what about sharks with lazer beams on thier heads? Any found?

They can't afford those! It's more like small dogs with potato bombs strapped to their backs.

"Al Qaeda" is really Monotheism and Jihad anyway.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Atlas
I'm glad you're enjoying it. War can be funny, huh.

Don't you hate the fact that more civilians weren't killed? They escaped the city too. If we wouldn't have dropped all those leaflets and let them leave we could have nuked the city and got them all.

Boy that would have been funny, wouldn't it?

The humour is about the sign, nobody is laughing about dead civilians so you can pack up your sanctimonious indignation and go find somebody who cares.....

ok, you can go now.

[peptoabysmal]

Falluja was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Zarqawi got away.
Tora Bora was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Bin Laden got away.

Duh, these guys leave before the shooting starts. They are not as dumb as the people they seduce to do their dirty work.

[demon]

pepto:
"Duh, these guys leave before the shooting starts. They are not as dumb as the people they seduce to do their dirty work."

And by the same token they are not as dumb as the people who send other dumb people to go sit there pounding their "hideouts" with daisy cutters etc after they have fled.
It`s "the art of war" you see, "exit pursued by a kodiak" and all that.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by The Fool
The humour is about the sign, nobody is laughing about dead civilians so you can pack up your sanctimonious indignation and go find somebody who cares.....

ok, you can go now. Ok the sign is funny but that's not what the OP was about. I was upset by the same thing pepto just pointed out. Originally posted by demon
Falluja was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Zarqawi got away.
Tora Bora was surrounded by thousands of troops - but Bin Laden got away.
This is getting to be a habit, just like the crap propaganda.

[demon]

Awww, what are you upset about Atlas? Tell demon!

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by demon
pepto:
"Duh, these guys leave before the shooting starts. They are not as dumb as the people they seduce to do their dirty work."

And by the same token they are not as dumb as the people who send other dumb people to go sit there pounding their "hideouts" with daisy cutters etc after they have fled.
It`s "the art of war" you see, "exit pursued by a kodiak" and all that.

What would you have them do? Debate? Pass another resolution? Send out the "international police"? Nothing?

[demon]

What would I have them do?
I`d have them actually concentrate on catching them instead of starting a war that had nothing to do with them and in the process breeding thousands more terrorists.
I thought that was meant to be the priority.
Last I heard Osama wasn`t in Iraq and al-Zarqawi was dead unless you have evidence to the contrary.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by demon
What would I have them do?
I`d have them actually concentrate on catching them instead of starting a war that had nothing to do with them and in the process breeding thousands more terrorists.
I thought that was meant to be the priority.
Last I heard Osama wasn`t in Iraq and al-Zarqawi was dead unless you have evidence to the contrary.

So we should have gone to war with Pakistan instead and be hunting down Bin-Laden ourselves, instead of the Pakistanis? We didn't breed any terrorists, we moved the garbage can and all the cockroaches ran out.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by demon
Awww, what are you upset about Atlas? Tell demon! It's your stupid posts!

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
So we should have gone to war with Pakistan instead and be hunting down Bin-Laden ourselves, instead of the Pakistanis? We didn't breed any terrorists, we moved the garbage can and all the cockroaches ran out.

I'll make you a deal, you tell me where he is and I'll go shoot the muther fokker myself.

[demon]

pepto:
"we moved the garbage can..."

You mean you started an illegal war based on a pack of lies and killed tens of thousands of civilians in the process and as a result made the world a more dangerous place by giving the terrorist leaders the best recruiting advert they could ever want.
What a bunch of dangerous idiots. Way to go!

Any news on that statue of George Bush that the Iraqis are meant to erect in Baghdad square in gratitude for their mass slaughter? Thought not.

[evildave]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
What would you have them do? Debate? Pass another resolution? Send out the "international police"? Nothing?

If they had done that for just a few months about Iraq, the evidence about NO WMD would've come in, and then our fearless leader would have lost his excuse to destabilize the whole region and throw the doors open to invite Al Qaeda into Iraq. (As opposed to hunting them down and eliminating them as a threat, as they were supposed to be over there to do.)

Over 1,000 U.S. soldiers would still be alive.
Over 1,000 contractors would still be alive.
Thousands of Iraqis would still be alive.
Cities, power and water distribution would still be intact.
Oil would be flowing out relatively uninterrupted, rather than having the pipelines blown out every week or so.
Gas prices would be well below $2 a gallon in the U.S.
Abu Ghraib would not have happened.
Our government wouldn't have come across as a bunch of lying agressors, reminiscent of Hitler and his calls for 'peace'.

But no! HURRY UP AND ATTACK!

That's what you're calling for.

Don't TALK.
Don't PLAN.
Don't THINK.
ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

Human beings are expendable. Especially if they're foreigners. ESPECIALLY if they're not Christians. It's way easier to flatten cities and slaughter people wholesale than to THINK about a peaceful means of solving issues.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by evildave
... It's way easier to flatten cities and slaughter people wholesale than to THINK about a peaceful means of solving issues. Ok you're just probably blowing off steam but you can't believe this. The whole UN was deep in THINK for years and years - they came up with nothin. Except a way to kill innocents and enrich themselves in an Oil for food deal.

[Tony]

Originally posted by demon

You mean you started an illegal war based on a pack of lies and killed tens of thousands of civilians in the process and as a result made the world a more dangerous place by giving the terrorist leaders the best recruiting advert they could ever want.
What a bunch of dangerous idiots. Way to go!


If the war was illegal why isn't Kofi following UN precedent and calling for Saddam Hussien to be restored to power?

Why isn’t any member of the UN demanding redress for the so-called “illegal� war?

Why aren’t charges being considered against the US, Britain and the other countries that belonged to the coalition?

The "illegal" war mantra is just a propaganda devise with no real legal or judicial standing. But hey, it allows dorks like you a way to feel self-important.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Atlas
Don't you hate the fact that more civilians weren't killed?
More than how many, does anybody have any idea how many civilians were killed? This is an honest question, I don't remember having seen any numbers anywhere.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Tony
If the war was illegal why isn't Kofi following UN precedent and calling for Saddam Hussien to be restored to power? Inane question of the month.

Why isn’t any member of the UN demanding redress for the so-called “illegal� war? Er, there's this little construct that allows the US to veto resolutions -- you might want to read about it.

Why aren’t charges being considered against the US, Britain and the other countries that belonged to the coalition? See previous answer.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Kerberos
More than how many, does anybody have any idea how many civilians were killed? This is an honest question, I don't remember having seen any numbers anywhere. Thanks for the reminder - I'd been wanting to ask that myself. I keep seeing the number 100,000 thrown around, but with no attribution. Somehow seems wildly inflated to me - I'd like to know where it comes from.

[Tony]

Originally posted by varwoche
Inane question of the month.

Not really. You just can't deal with reality. Every time a regime has been ousted from power illegally, the UN restored the regime (or ousted leader) to power. It happened in Kuwait, Haiti and Sierra Leone. Why not Iraq? If what the US and coalition did was illegal, proper reparations should be made to Saddam Hussein and his regime. You can't have it both ways.

Er, there's this little construct that allows the US to veto resolutions -- you might want to read about it.

Just like seeing your words on screen huh? The fact that the US has a veto prevents no member nation(s) from demanding redress.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Thanks for the reminder - I'd been wanting to ask that myself. I keep seeing the number 100,000 thrown around, but with no attribution. Somehow seems wildly inflated to me - I'd like to know where it comes from.
Actually I was thinking of the number of dead in Faluja. The number of 100.000 comes from the Lancet. The methology consisted of asking families in different areas how many people had died in the 17 mont since the occupation, and how many had died in the 14 month before. They then compared the two set of numbers and concluded that apparently there had been 100.000 more deaths since the occupation mainly from violence. Now The Lancet is AFAIK a serious publication, but the statistical insecurity is very high (95% chance the number is accurate within +/-94.000 if I remember correctly) so the number is very uncertain and fx Human Rights Watch have said they thought the number was likely too high. I'll try to find some English links for this.

Edited to add: Here's an article on the study by the international herals tribune:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/29/news/toll.html

And here's one from Wahington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

I can't find anything in English about the +/-94.000 insecurity, but I read it in a Danish newspaper (politikken) a few days ago, it might have been +/-92.000 instead, but I'm pretty sure I remember correctly. Edited further to add: Matabiri's link has it. Extra death toll between 8.000 and 194.000 with 95% confidence.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by demon
And by the same token they are not as dumb as the people who send other dumb people to go sit there pounding their "hideouts" with daisy cutters etc after they have fled.
It`s "the art of war" you see, "exit pursued by a kodiak" and all that.

I was skeptical, but Rikzilla was right! You are foaming!! :D

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by Kerberos
Edited to add: Here's an article on the study by the international herals tribune:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/29/news/toll.html

Here's a discussion by an economist, with various links: http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/002858.html

Important to point out the numbers are supposed to be ADDITIONAL civilian deaths, on top of those who would have died had the invasion not occurred.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by evildave
If they had done that for just a few months about Iraq, the evidence about NO WMD would've come in, and then our fearless leader would have lost his excuse to destabilize the whole region and throw the doors open to invite Al Qaeda into Iraq. (As opposed to hunting them down and eliminating them as a threat, as they were supposed to be over there to do.)

Over 1,000 U.S. soldiers would still be alive.
Over 1,000 contractors would still be alive.
Thousands of Iraqis would still be alive.
Cities, power and water distribution would still be intact.
Oil would be flowing out relatively uninterrupted, rather than having the pipelines blown out every week or so.
Gas prices would be well below $2 a gallon in the U.S.
Abu Ghraib would not have happened.
Our government wouldn't have come across as a bunch of lying agressors, reminiscent of Hitler and his calls for 'peace'.

But no! HURRY UP AND ATTACK!

That's what you're calling for.

Don't TALK.
Don't PLAN.
Don't THINK.
ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

Human beings are expendable. Especially if they're foreigners. ESPECIALLY if they're not Christians. It's way easier to flatten cities and slaughter people wholesale than to THINK about a peaceful means of solving issues.

WHAT!!??

NO mention of the beheadings and executions of hostages by insurgents and jihadists!!??

NO mention of the hundreds of suicide car bombings by insurgents and jihadists!!??

NO mention of the Oil-for-Food Scandal!!??


shocking!!... :eek:




I see you didn't forget Abu Ghraib, though...

[TillEulenspiegel]

Dave:
"Human beings are expendable. Especially if they're foreigners. ESPECIALLY if they're not Christians. It's way easier to flatten cities and slaughter people wholesale than to THINK about a peaceful means of solving issues. "

Oh I don't know Dave theres plenty of dead Africans that are Christian and animists in Sudan.
I think we apply our policies fairly.............for instance had they been white or had oil I'm sure we would have defended them . Remember the Right has their new found ethos of defending populace's against Tyrannical government ...oh ...sorry ...that's only if they have strategic importance to the US or they need post war justification.

Never mind.

[demon]

Here we go again.

Al Qaeda and Zarqawi "trying to communicate"
Sat 20 November, 2004
By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and the network's ally in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, are trying to communicate with each other even as they continue to elude U.S. forces, a senior U.S. general has said.

Air Force Lieutenant General Lance Smith also said U.S. Central Command may ask the Pentagon to raise U.S. troop levels in Iraq by roughly 3,000 to 5,000, mainly by delaying the scheduled departure of some soldiers, to improve security before January elections.

Smith, the No. 2 officer in the command responsible for military operations in the Middle East and Asia, also said it was premature to declare that the offensive in Falluja has broken the back of Iraq's insurgency, as the top U.S. Marine general in Iraq said on Thursday.

Smith told reporters at the Pentagon that "we know for a fact that there are attempted communications" between bin Laden, thought to be hiding along the Afghan-Pakistani border, and Zarqawi, believed to have escaped the U.S. offensive in his previous suspected base of operations in Falluja. Smith did not provide evidence for these attempted communications.

Speaking after meetings at CIA headquarters, Smith said it was doubtful whether these attempted communications -- likely couriers carrying computer disks -- had succeeded, considering "the huge distances involved in those lines of communication."

The Jordanian-born Zarqawi, blamed for some of the most notorious beheadings, kidnappings and bombings in Iraq, recently declared his allegiance to bin Laden and al Qaeda, which carried out the 2001 attacks on the United States.

Smith said it was unclear whether the attempted communications involved al Qaeda giving Zarqawi instructions, but added it was unlikely al Qaeda was in operational control of the Iraqi insurgency, which U.S. officials have said is controlled primarily by Iraqis.....

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=5NWHF3NSMP3RMC RBAEKSFEY?type=worldNews&storyID=624365&section=news
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"Smith did not provide evidence for these attempted communications."

Suprise, suprise.
I've watched as this crap was spun into news on TV. They can pull up this kind of nonsense out of thin air, just as money/credit is manufactured out of thin air also.

No, Americans and Brits do not lack information, there is masses of it. What is lacking is correct, accurate and relevant, truthful information.
E.g. for a couple of nights tv news spun some (censored) (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870531930#rule8) about the French invading the Ivory Coast, said to be same action as USA invading Iraq. Not only was the information incorrect and incomplete, but the "joke" was that US TV used French transgression and agression to exuse their own. It all made perfect common sense in a "playground bully" sort of sense. "He done it too !"

Scary really, to see how the mass media does this kind of misdirection and disinformation quite regularly and in such an overt and brazen way.
Remember WMD and 45 mins?