Atheists and Christmas

[Temporal Renegade]

Since a good deal of people here are, indeed, atheist (or, at the very least, have questions concerning the existance of God) I was just wondering:

How do you handle secular holidays? Christmas, Easter, etc. Do you just tell everyone not to bother adding you to their Christmas card list, or do you just grin & bear it? How do your friends & family feel, if they don't really share your views about religion & God?

I myself don't bring it up. I've told the family years ago, I don't mind visiting everyone, but I don't really go for the trappings (carolling, saying Grace--if you don't do it the rest of the year, why bother with it then?).

Plus, we had a 'discussion' one year; I wanted to know why it's OK to 'show Grace and Goodness to your fellows' at the Holidays, but ignore them the rest of the time? I know you can't afford it or find the time all year 'round, but why not do something nice for someone who would appreciate it, maybe once every few months or so, when you can do it? (Yes, I was playing Devil's Advocate. And, at X-Mas, too! )

...I'm not allowed to talk about such things anymore...:D

[the_ignored]

No better way to answer that question than to note that the xians co-opted the Solstice from pagans, and then to go right ahead and steal the Holiday Season (http://www.agnostica.com) back from them

Agnostica proclaimed:
"An agnostic?" I asked him, "So what's up with that?"
"Belief in ourselves!" he said, "Pure logic and fact!
"But what about us who have no religion?
"Who celebrate science? Don't we get a smidgen?"
"Yes! We'll celebrate science, not some `god' in the sky!
"And declare that Jesus was just a nice guy."

[Piscivore]

My immediate family do the Giftmas thing: Santa, presents, tree, etc. We don't go to church. My extended family tolerate me, they know and accept my position, and I in turn tolerate their theist beliefs. We each respect the other, and this goes for my non-xtian, non atheist relations as well. I am comfortable enough in my lack of faith to accept the prayers and blessings of strangers in the spirit in which it is offered.

For me to get all uptight about the Xtian symbology rampant at this time of year would be to make myself as foolish as the fundie freaks that protest H'ween.

[KelvinG]

I abandoned Xmas as a religious holiday years ago when I became an atheist, but continued to celebrate it as a seasonal holiday.
However, this year I've told my family I'm intentionally toning down the whole Xmas thing just because I think it can become such a consuming event. Think about how many people stress themselves out at Xmas because they have so many things planned, and place so much expectations on the holiday.
I'm refusing to do that this year. I'm not even going to think about Xmas until the 24th.

As for the whole religious question, I think it is entirely appropriate to assimilate Xmas for your own purposes. It should be what you want it to be, whether your christian, atheist or other.
Actually, Xmas has become quite secular in general, so it's quite easy for a non-religiou person to enjoy it.

[Checkmite]

I love Christmas. Or, at least, I used to. When somebody mentions Christmas, I think about the holiday the way I remember it when I was young - back in the 80's and early 90's.

Christmas was great, and it wasn't all about the presents either (although that was definitely a big part). It was the entire atmosphere. The music has always stuck with me - not some boy band singing the hundredth cut of "Winter Wonderland", but good classic stuff, with Burl Ives or Bing Crosby singing out an old tune, or a nice choral version of Carol of the Bells. They came on the radio, of course, but we had some - a few old vinyl 33s. Even the religious songs were just fine - why is it that back then, we could sing "O Holy Night" without pondering whether we were going to spend eternity in heaven or hell? Then there were the decorations - people decorated their houses with all manner of lights, trees, plastic reindeer, and taped those dumb cardboard cutouts to the window. We used to go around a week before Christmas and look at how beautiful some of those houses were, all lit up and sparkling.

The movies were cool too, back then. Not just the kids movies (because hey, kids movies were kids movies), but the more grown-up ones, like Miracle on 34th street, or It's a Wonderful Life before they became cliche's. Remember the messages of those old movies, that spoke of the "spirit of Christmas"? It was about people, not gods. It was about here and now, not some past or future event. Giving and getting gifts, for and from people you knew and loved or cared about. Writing and sending out cards for the ones who couldn't be there, not because you thought you had to, but because it was just something you did.

That whole Santa Claus thing is great, too - it's a wonderful mythos. And the suggestion that it's a horrible thing to do to kids is nonsense; Christmas was never "less fun" for me after I learned the truth, I wasn't "traumatized". In fact, the year after I "learned the devastating truth", I joined a group of kids from school who went caroling that Christmas, and it was great. Sometimes I swear I grew up in the Golden Age of Christmas.

Christmas was also the first time I was made aware of the differences in world cultures. One year, way back in the single digits, one of the houses I saw was decorated with all blue lights (it reminded me of taxiway lights at an airport). I thought it looked exceedingly beautiful and the next day I asked the kid who lived there about it. Hannukah was explained to me then. I learned of these people who celebrated at the same time, who weren't Christian (I was technically a Christian, but our family didn't do church or anything like that). They didn't believe in the whole Jesus thing - but I didn't care. Hell, nobody cared. During Christmas, everything was all right.

But that's the way it used to be. In the 90's, people with squeezed budgets started complaining that Christmas was just a commercial gimmick, designed to suck more dollars out of them - they were right, then. They remembered the way Christmas used to be, but when they tried to find it again they noticed how expensive it had suddenly become in the here and now. So Christmas has steadily gone downhill as far as quality goes. Now, people string lights over the porch and call it quits...the only people who decorate "elaborately" now are the ones who turn their backyards into a miniature Las Vegas and give tours - for a buck. Those people make the papers.

In the late 90's and in the 21st century, the ultra-fundies have come around and noticed that Christmas really and truly has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. They've decided to change that at all cost. Nativity scenes have popped up in peoples' front yards and are becoming more populous every year. Some families spend less time at home (or a relative's home) in fellowship, and more time having "fellowship" at a church where they sit in complete silence and are read to like a class of first graders. People are taking over the radio and actually telling us that this whole "myth" of the Christmas spirit (being about people and loving people), is the devil's work. Christmas is becoming a way to proselytize to children, who are told that "It's Christ's birthday, Christmas trees are devil worship, and by the way if you don't believe in Jesus you're going to burn in hell forever". Christmas is one of those things that's being ruined by "revival".

But even so, my non-Christian status does not stop me from sending cards to those I can't be with, or buying an occasional present for aunts, uncles, and cousins. Our family still gathers - those of us that can, anyway - and we celebrate Christmas the real way. The most religious our evening ever gets is the before-dinner prayer, and I have no trouble lowering my head and letting it happen - I lose nothing. We're there, all together. And if that ever stops happening, then the only place left to go - the only thing that hasn't changed all that much - is that music. I still have that old, dusty vinyl. I'll probably keep it until the day I die.

[Ratman_tf]

A few days off. Sit around the house and watch DVD's and drink eggnog and eat good food. What's not to like? :D

I'm not an uptight rabid atheist. It's kinda like when I went to a buddy's wedding. I respected their rites just as I'd expect others to respect my beliefs.

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Temporal Renegade
...I'm not allowed to talk about such things anymore...:D
Rent Blasphemy from your video store ... you'll get a kick.

[Jellby]

Personally, I like Christmas and I don't like it.

I like the holidays, I like the family meetings and the banquets, I like getting presents and the Three Wise Men fantasy, I like our cute Portuguese nativity set.

I don't like the hypocrisy of being nice to others in Christmas and being a s*@k! the rest of the year, I don't like the shopping mall fever, I don't like the cheap Santa movies on TV, I don't like the Pope, I don't like the dark and rainy weather.

Fortunately, all my close family shares my atheism (apparently, at least), so at home we get the tradition without the religion :D

[Bruce]

What? Christmas is a religious holiday? When the hell did that happen? :D ;)

Seriously though, you'd have to be a real pompous idiot jerk to refuse days off and presents just because you don't believe in baby Jesus. Just drink your eggnog and mumble the words to "Oh Holy night" with the rest of us.

[Loon]

Note that this question applies to any non-Christian, not just atheists and agnostics.

In high school, when I was one of three Jews in a school of 2000 christians, 25 Hindus and maybe a token Muslim, I was so uptight about all of it that "Merry Christmas" used to stick in my throat. (In fact, when I was really little, I once told a mall santa that I was Jewish. He said not to worry because so was he.)

Nowadays, it's a holiday. There's food, which is usually good. I get cards from friends I don't hear from very often and have a reason to write to people I'm not often in touch with. Sometimes I get gifts. I have an excuse to play with chocolate in the kitchen. There are lots of sparkly lights and shiny objects to draw my attention.

I have no problem with people wishing me a merry christmas, nor wishing it to others. At the very worst, it's a seasonal greeting as innocuous as "Happy New Year." At best, it is a sincere wish for another person's happiness. I can't see a point in getting mad when someone wishes you well.

[Temporal Renegade]

Originally posted by SezMe
Rent Blasphemy from your video store ... you'll get a kick.

Thanks! I think I will.:)

[UserGoogol]

My parents weren't religious but they celebrated Christmas anyway, so I always figured Christmas was pretty secular but had that whole "Midnight Mass" thing on the side which my cousins would go to.

There are, of course, certain atheists who will chose to rename Christmas "Winter Solstice," but these people are stupid. The holiday isn't religious. Religion is involved, but that's true of most traditions which are as old as Christmas.

That said, there are certain Christmas specials which will stir up my inner militant atheist. Notably, anything which makes the analogy between Jesus and Santa way too obvious.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I like Christmas too, in a big old secular, present-giving-and-getting, time-off-from-work, kids-get-a-break-from-school, relatives-come-and-visit, still-love-carols sort of way.

Toss in a bit of solstice, Hanukkah, Kwanza, and the New Year and it's quite a nice time of year.

~~ Paul

[American]

Just know that you are truly superior when it doesn't bother you. If others act cooler than you, then they've already won.

[Eleatic Stranger]

I usually make a big fuss about religion intruding into my life, and so on, but really I think to do that with Christmas would be going against the true spirit of Atheistsgetpresents Day.

[sorgoth]

Christmas? I just grin and bear it, go to church with the family (And hour of my life isn't going to kill me), do the present thing... all the while, though, I'm really looking forward to boxing day.

Yes, boxing day, the best day of the year. It's the calm after the Xmas storm. It's a day where you can just lay around in the lights, no rush to wrap last-minute presents, no worrying, no stress... Just peace.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Temporal Renegade
Since a good deal of people here are, indeed, atheist (or, at the very least, have questions concerning the existance of God) I was just wondering:

How do you handle secular holidays? Christmas, Easter, etc. Do you just tell everyone not to bother adding you to their Christmas card list, or do you just grin & bear it? How do your friends & family feel, if they don't really share your views about religion & God?

I myself don't bring it up. I've told the family years ago, I don't mind visiting everyone, but I don't really go for the trappings (carolling, saying Grace--if you don't do it the rest of the year, why bother with it then?).

Plus, we had a 'discussion' one year; I wanted to know why it's OK to 'show Grace and Goodness to your fellows' at the Holidays, but ignore them the rest of the time? I know you can't afford it or find the time all year 'round, but why not do something nice for someone who would appreciate it, maybe once every few months or so, when you can do it? (Yes, I was playing Devil's Advocate. And, at X-Mas, too! )

...I'm not allowed to talk about such things anymore...:D

I don't think Christmas or Easter or any other of those holidays are secular. For the most part those holidays are not really religious events. Christmas is a time to give presents and get together. Easter is a time to make Easter baskets for your kids.

[AK-Dave]

What gets me is whenever you hear an Xtian whining about putting the X back in X-Mas (or something like that), when it was a pagan holiday to begin with. I am trying to come up with a quote for a sig line or t-shirt or just to respond to their whining with. So far, all I could come up with is:I don’t care about the people who are taking Christ out of your Christmas. What I want to know is why you Christians put Christmas into a pagan solstice celebration in the first place.It just doesn't sound right yet, but I'm working on it

[Jorghnassen]

I see nothing wrong with eating turkey right after midnight mass. Though I am against those "way before midnight" Christmas masses. That's like, heresy or something. OK, so I stopped believing before reaching the age of 17, but there's just something about enjoying holidays and/or traditions, being home again...

[Ladyhawk]

I nailed this whole Christmas thing last year. Sure, there's the whole religious aspect of it that's maddening enough. But, I've also gotten fed up with the gift giving crap as well.

So, last year, my husband and I went to Vegas. We politely told our family that we would not be buying anyone Christmas presents that year and suggested they take the money they would have spent buying us something and spend it on themselves...or, if they were so inclined, to give the money to one of a couple of our favorite charities. Not only weren't they offended, but I think they were somewhat jealous. We went to Vegas where Christmas barely exists! (Try it some time!)

As for years past, I've never taken any serious offense at attending church with friends or family. I look at it as a field trip; an opportunity to observe ancient rituals and the reactions of the cult followers. I feel like Indiana Jones. It can be pretty amusing if you take the right perspective.

I figure , if say, some Native American Indian tribe asked me to be a guest of honor at one of their Sun Dances in Arizona, I wouldn't object on the basis of my atheism. I'd be honored to be invited and would partake in the ritual as a matter of broadening my cultural experience.

Christmas, like Easter, is just another opportunity to see ignorance run amok...

[TragicMonkey]

I'm an atheist, and I love Christmas. All the tree-and-Santa stuff, of course, as well as Advent calendars and angels and mangers. The more over-the-top, the better. I find the Christmas myth very picturesque, and well-adapted to interesting decoration.

I also try to be inclusive: every year I insert more figures into the little Nativity scene. Last year I had all the usual suspects, plus some Hindu god finger puppers (Varuna, Kali, Shiva, and Brahma); action figures of Pope Innocent III, Edgar Allan Poe, Shakespeare, and a librarian; a Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtle; and, of course, that eternal holiday triad of Santa Claus, Frosty the Snowman, and Boba Fett. The manger may be crowded, but it's a much more interesting party than just two people, a baby, and some cows and sheep. This year I shall add an elephant playing a cello, Kermit the Frog, and a Buddha. And if I can find them in the attic, some of the better plastic dinosaurs. Hey, it was a manger full of animals; I don't recall they ever said what kind of animals they were.

I'm trying to find the scariest possible angel for the tree top, preferably one with wide, staring eyes. I shall probably have to make one myself, because I'd like one with black wings and both hands bloody to the elbows like a Maenad. Or maybe a jolly little Grim Reaper would be cute instead.

Mythology is fun, if you don't take it seriously.


eta: I forgot the Christmas cookies. We always make some in the shape of crescent moons and Hands of Fatima, because Christmas is about eating baked goods, and celebrating Muhammed. Right?

[alfaniner]

Even back in (1964? 1966?), Charlie Brown was lamenting the commercialization of Christmas. Of course we all learned the "true meaning" with Linus' little speech.

A show like that could never be made today -- each character would have to have a different religion designated for them, probably giving equal time to all.

Still, it's the sweetest show, and one I never miss every year.

[bjornart]

In Norwegian Christmas is "Jul" i.e. Yule so no one can whine about Christmas. No christ or mass in Yule, so there.

Tree and angels? They're pretty, nothing more.

Big chunk of pork. Not particularly christian.
Dried cod treated with lye. Not particularly christian.
Gifts. Not particularly christian.

Santa Claus. Again language comes to our rescue. The Norwegian "Julenisse" is one of the old fey folk. Bigger than the barn living "fjøsnisse" yes, and less prone to wreck your farm if you don't feed him and help you if you do. But in the end he's a non-christian gift bringer dressed up in a coca-cola suit.

Religious services? Haven't been to one apart from some at school.

One purple candle for each sunday in Advent? Sure, but the countdown to christmas dinner should have multiple forms.

Light star in the window through december. Looks pretty.

[Upchurch]

Just last night my wife and I threw our new baby godson's first tree-trimming party. I was hoping to share some pics today, but my wife took the camera with her. :(

The kid's parents (much like his godparents) consist of an atheist and deeply spiritual but non-religious (at least in an organized sense) person. We decorated the tree, baked cookies and watched a Kevin Smith video. It was pretty much all about family, tradition, and eating fattening foods and nothing to do with Christianity. (Although some of the peganistic origins were discussed.)


Christmas, it isn't just for Christians anymore (again).

[Jorghnassen]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Even back in (1964? 1966?), Charlie Brown was lamenting the commercialization of Christmas. Of course we all learned the "true meaning" with Linus' little speech.

A show like that could never be made today -- each character would have to have a different religion designated for them, probably giving equal time to all.

Still, it's the sweetest show, and one I never miss every year.

I believe it was 1965. Anyway, I never miss it either, but I'm seriously considering buying the DVD, because the ever more present ads on TV have considerably reduced the length of the show each year.

[jimmygun]

What's not to like about Christmas? The lights, the trim, the food, the presents (given and received), the good will (I don't refuse good will no matter what the intention or duration).

My family has always been at war with each other. The sides change and the reasons change but almost always there are petty little breakpeaces going on. Time out is called during funerals and at Christmas. While funerals are a somber outing for the most part, Christmas allows our disfunctional family to function on neutral, happier grounds for a few days. Over the years feuds that would have ended relationships for good have been minimized and there has always been a door of opportunity to make amends.

I don't hold much hope that we will become the Cleavers but it is always a possibility if peace is given a chance.

[AWPrime]

Santa, the (PoliticalCorrect) Sinterklaas knockoff.

[Cosmo]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
I also try to be inclusive: every year I insert more figures into the little Nativity scene. Last year I had all the usual suspects, plus some Hindu god finger puppers (Varuna, Kali, Shiva, and Brahma); action figures of Pope Innocent III, Edgar Allan Poe, Shakespeare, and a librarian; a Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtle; and, of course, that eternal holiday triad of Santa Claus, Frosty the Snowman, and Boba Fett. The manger may be crowded, but it's a much more interesting party than just two people, a baby, and some cows and sheep. This year I shall add an elephant playing a cello, Kermit the Frog, and a Buddha. And if I can find them in the attic, some of the better plastic dinosaurs. Hey, it was a manger full of animals; I don't recall they ever said what kind of animals they were.

I'm trying to find the scariest possible angel for the tree top, preferably one with wide, staring eyes. I shall probably have to make one myself, because I'd like one with black wings and both hands bloody to the elbows like a Maenad. Or maybe a jolly little Grim Reaper would be cute instead.

:dl:

[tdn]

How about this? "Mithra is the REAL reason for the season."

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
But that's the way it used to be. In the 90's, people with squeezed budgets started complaining that Christmas was just a commercial gimmick, designed to suck more dollars out of them - they were right, then. They remembered the way Christmas used to be, but when they tried to find it again they noticed how expensive it had suddenly become in the here and now. So Christmas has steadily gone downhill as far as quality goes. Now, people string lights over the porch and call it quits...the only people who decorate "elaborately" now are the ones who turn their backyards into a miniature Las Vegas and give tours - for a buck. Those people make the papers.


As someone that has a good 20 years on you, let me say:

I suggest that it is not Christmas that has changed, but you. You've grown up, and gotten more skeptical. And unfortunately, more cynical.

I know plenty of people who celebrate in an over-the-top way with the decorations and lights and parties and gifts, and they usually do it out of love, not out of making a buck. Some are religious, some aren't.

Yes, retailers are just out to make a buck on the holidays, but they're out to do that all year long. If they can pull in a little more over the holidays, why shouldn't they? Modern American Christmas has always been a cash cow, even back in the magical days when Santa walked on your roof -- and at least 80 before that.

And Fundies haven't co-opted Christmas anymore than they're trying to co-opt the rest of our lives. Don't blame that on Christmas, blame that on Fundies.

The only thing wrong with the way Christmas has become since you were a child is that you know longer view it through the eyes of a child. And it has a few more batteries and BLEEP BLEEP sounds than it had when I was a kid. But really, the holiday has not changed one whit in the past 100 years. Not commercially, not cynically, and not theistically.

But if you long for the days when Christmas was glorious and joyful, all you have to do is change your perspective on it. You can view it through child-like eyes again if you really want to. Put away your cynicism. Hang on to your skepticism if you'd like. But be a child in the holiday again. You might be amazed at how much fun you can still have.

BTW, if you never want to see a grown man cry, then don't hang out with me when I watch Scrooge or IaWL or Little Drummer Boy. I always bawl like a baby. Maybe I shouldn't spike the eggnog so much, eh?

[Brown]

As a kid, going to church on Christmas Eve was always viewed as the "taking the bad with the good." Before church, we'd feast, which was good. And after church, we'd open presents, which was great. But between the good things was church, and attendance was mandatory.

There was one good thing about Christmas Eve services, and that was that they let you play with fire. Everybody, even little kids, got to hold a lit candle, and the parents couldn't object!

In my later years, I started to listen to the "Christmas Messages" offered from the pulpit, and I detected a pattern: most of the messages were not very helpful. They had little practical use, and they tended to be sappy, trite messages. I used to think it was funny that my uncle slept through the sermons. I understood later how smart he was.

As a teenager, I found ways to amuse myself, such as singing hymns the way Elmer Fudd would sing them. I was able to make one of my siblings break up laughing by singing "The shephewds feawed and twembled, when wo! above the eawth...."

When I came of majority, I would go to church because my entire family was going, or to see one of my relatives in some sort of play or musical production during the service. Lately, however, I have taken the position that I do not ever want to go to any more Christmas Eve services. I have seen enough of them in my lifetime and I have found them to be of no practical value.

My family still gets together at Christmas, and we still have a good time. We still feast and open presents and look at lighting displays and the like.

[roger]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk

I figure , if say, some Native American Indian tribe asked me to be a guest of honor at one of their Sun Dances in Arizona, I wouldn't object on the basis of my atheism. I'd be honored to be invited and would partake in the ritual as a matter of broadening my cultural experience. I agree with this, however, some people just want to force xmas on you, which is an entirely different thing. I don't feel anything special about the holiday, myself, but I'll inevitably hear "oh, your not celebrating...how sad" type comments. There's a certain social pressure to like xmas, at least in my circle. That I don't like at all. It's as iff the Indian didn't just invite me to the sun dance, which would be nice, but got upset when I say I'm not interested in studying and performing the dances myself, which wouldn't be so nice.

But it's not much of an anti-xmas or anti-religion thing with me - I'm also not going to celebrate Thanksgiving. I don't have family around here, and I have better things to do (and I mean that in a positive, not perjorative sense) then prepare a big heavy meal that I won't enjoy much anyway (I don't like roasted turkey). People will also tell me how "sad" that is. Oh well - I'll be having fun doing what I want to do with a free day off from work.

[bignickel]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
Notably, anything which makes the analogy between Jesus and Santa way too obvious.

That scene in the Xmas movie where Santa gets nailed to the cross gets me every time...

[Beady]

Originally posted by Loon
(In fact, when I was really little, I once told a mall santa that I was Jewish. He said not to worry because so was he.)


Err... So was Jesus.

[American]

Originally posted by Upchurch
We decorated the tree, baked cookies and watched a Kevin Smith video.

Yeah, I love to gather the family around our fireplace and watch Vulgar (http://www.vulgarthemovie.com/about.html) while we decorate the Christmas tree.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Brown
As a kid, going to church on Christmas Eve was always viewed as the "taking the bad with the good." Before church, we'd feast, which was good. And after church, we'd open presents, which was great. But between the good things was church, and attendance was mandatory.

There was one good thing about Christmas Eve services, and that was that they let you play with fire. Everybody, even little kids, got to hold a lit candle, and the parents couldn't object!



Ahhhh, catholics are fun.

We got our candles confiscated after one of kids started a fire in the church basement. Not with the candles, mind you, but with some sticks and matches.

After that, I think the fire insurance premiums went through the roof and to keep them down they had to get rid a lot of the careless fire.

[Nyarlathotep]

This question seems to come up on these boards every year about this time. Here is my stock answer: Christmas has exactly whatever meaning you decide to imbue it with, no more, no less. The same is true for every other holiday.

Chani and I are both atheists. We celebrate and quite enjoy Christmas. We choose to celebrate and emphasize the family aspect of the holiday. It is an excuse to spend time with our family, enjoy the gifts that we buy for each other and have a good meal together. Nothing about those things requires any belief in God.

Sure we could do any of those things any day of the year, but we are also part of our society and our society has set aside December 25 for those things and its as good a day as any to us. So that's when we do it.

[Brown]

Originally posted by pgwenthold
Ahhhh, catholics are fun.Actually, we were Lutherans, sort of a "Catholic Lite," without all of the saints and the popes, but with a lot of the same liturgy.

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm Buddhist, so I go "Om" for the holidays.

[Rose]

Religious holidays don't bother me overmuch; I have my own "obsessions" with SF, so why shouldn't I let friends and co workers get excited about their fictional hero? In fact, for Christmas, i am the one who does the decorating at the station each year, as well as the cooking. On a good year I have a great time, and on my "Bah Humbug" years the enjoyment the others take from the holidays makes the incessent music and tv specials tolerable. When all else fails, I get some amusement from their ignorance on the real origins of their Holidays.

[Loon]

Originally posted by Beady
Err... So was Jesus.

Right, but I'm a bit young to have sat on Jesus' lap.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
That said, there are certain Christmas specials which will stir up my inner militant atheist. Notably, anything which makes the analogy between Jesus and Santa way too obvious.
You mean, how neither exists?

[Beady]

Originally posted by Loon
Right, but I'm a bit young to have sat on Jesus' lap.

Evidence?

[Beady]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
That said, there are certain Christmas specials which will stir up my inner militant atheist. Notably, anything which makes the analogy between Jesus and Santa way too obvious.

?????

What analogy? Or did you mean to use another word?

[Loon]

Originally posted by Beady
Evidence?

Well, Jesus was 2000 years ago, give or take, and even Methusalah missed the millenium mark....

[aargh57]

Personally, I love Christmass and I'm an atheist. I just wish I didn't have to go to all the different relatives to celebrate. I go to a total of 5 different Christmass gatherings every year to see all the relatives. That's not counting the small Christmass gift exchange that me and my wife have. What's interesting to me is that most of the atheists here seem to enjoy the holiday more than most theists. How many times have you heard theists complain of the commercialization of Christmass? Maybe if they lost their faith they'd like the holiday season better.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Jorghnassen
I see nothing wrong with eating turkey right after midnight mass. Though I am against those "way before midnight" Christmas masses. That's like, heresy or something. OK, so I stopped believing before reaching the age of 17, but there's just something about enjoying holidays and/or traditions, being home again...

Speaking of which, we're about to give thanks to a non-existant god for the bounty of this New World. It ain't stoppin' the turkey, and it won't stop the trees and gifts...

[UserGoogol]

Originally posted by Beady
?????

What analogy? Or did you mean to use another word?

Well maybe, but I was reffering to Christmas specials which glorify faith in Santa Claus. It's minor, but my inner militant atheist can be stirred by annoyingly unimportant issues.

[bluess]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I'm Buddhist, so I go "Om" for the holidays.

OUCH!

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm happy someone got it. :D

[Yaotl]

I never minded celebrating the day after I became an atheist because, deep down, I'm a greedy bastard. We're spending it with the in-laws this year and I'm now terrified about what a Pentacostal x-mas mass type thing will be like.

[Beady]

Originally posted by aargh57
Personally, I love Christmass and I'm an atheist. I just wish I didn't have to go to all the different relatives to celebrate. I go to a total of 5 different Christmass gatherings every year to see all the relatives.

Would you rather they all gathered at your place? Think about it.

Very carefully.

[Beady]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
Well maybe, but I was reffering to Christmas specials which glorify faith in Santa Claus.

Well, I'll tell ya... In a few more days I will deliberately, albeit temporarilly, totally suspend all disbelief in such things. Come Christmas Eve, that jolly, fat b*****d is going to think I'm the most believing a*****e south of the Canadian border. And y'know, I bet I have more fun over the next six weeks than you do.

:D

[Beady]

Originally posted by Loon
Well, Jesus was 2000 years ago, give or take, and even Methusalah missed the millenium mark....

Purely circumstantial, and has no bearing on the present case.

[Chanileslie]

I think you meant non-secular holidays, but anyway.

Christmas in the US was restarted in the mid-1800's as a family holiday, not a religious one, and it's true origins go back thousands of years prior to the rise of the christian religion. My family has never been religious and we have never treated this as a religious holiday, but a day for spending with family and friends, and spoiling kids rotten.

Easter is also another holiday that predates the christian belief system, and in fact still remains named after a pagan goddess Oestra although it has had many different names in different cultures. Easter was more a rite of spring than anything else, and we treat this also as a day for spending with family and friends and giving our children more candy than they should eat. Oh also, it is the only time of year that I will actually eat ham.

Holidays, no matter who claims them as their own, are just days and the meaning one puts into it is what matters.

[Jontg]

Given that Christmas, Easter, and St. Valentine's day are all just Xian bastardizations of pagan holidays--and so heavily commercialized that they're hardly even sacred anymore--I basically just sit back and enjoy the show. Watching the God-slaves run about, gaily performing rituals that they once executed pagans for taking part in, dedicating their unwitting blasphemy to the very child who made it so... sweet nobody, I love the holidays. :biggrin:

[aargh57]

Originally posted by Beady
Would you rather they all gathered at your place? Think about it.

Very carefully.

Very good point.

[aargh57]

Originally posted by Yaotl
I never minded celebrating the day after I became an atheist because, deep down, I'm a greedy bastard. We're spending it with the in-laws this year and I'm now terrified about what a Pentacostal x-mas mass type thing will be like.

Don't worry about it. I went to a Pentecostal service every other week for about 8 years growing up. You'll have a blast. If you're not used to doing a lot of hand clapping you might want to bring some moisturizer or something to cut down on the chafing though.

[Temporal Renegade]

In a way, I'm a little bummed out...so far my family hasn't called & asked me to stop by this year. Usually they've called by now. Hmmmm...something I said?