The men who stare at goats.

[Rolfe]

I just watched the third part of this series, and the journalist's thesis in the end was that if the military authorities of a nation are crazy they tend to infect the population as a whole and make all sorts of craziness much more widespread. He was pretty much blaming the high incidence of woo in Merika on the military.

I hadn't realised the Heaven's Gate suicides could in a sense be traced back to military woo.

Any opinions on this?

Rolfe.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

The military is responsible for spreading wooism? I did not know that. I'm not sure I buy it, either.

~~ Paul

[JohnF_73]

The author Jon Ronsom was online for a chat after the show. He said that it was a contrast between the Clinton administration (where nuttiness was sidelined) and the Bush administration, where nuttiness comes to the fore.

[KelvinG]

I was expecting something very different when I read the title of this thread!

[Vitnir]

Sounds like an oversimplistic explanation to a difficult question.

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
The military is responsible for spreading wooism? I did not know that. I'm not sure I buy it, either.

I think there's some credence - how often have you heard, "The military wouldn't be wasting money on X if there wasn't something to it!"? Not convinced it's the whole story though. I'd tend to lay some blame on the educational system, too...

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Rolfe
I just watched the third part of this series, and the journalist's thesis in the end was that if the military authorities of a nation are crazy they tend to infect the population as a whole and make all sorts of craziness much more widespread. He was pretty much blaming the high incidence of woo in Merika on the military.

I hadn't realised the Heaven's Gate suicides could in a sense be traced back to military woo.

Any opinions on this?
All weird beliefs are caused by the CIA beaming them into people's heads to stop them from finding out what's really going on.

You mean you didn't know?

[Soapy Sam]

Dr.A. I believe that idea was beamed into your head by the commie Dero Dwarves who live inside the tunnels under the White House.

Of course, I have no idea where I got that idea.

[Dr Adequate]

Evidently the Small Greys have gotten to you too, or you'd know that it's actually a fascist conspiracy. De'Ville's Imaginary Friend (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870693493#post1870693493) told him so, so it must be true.

[Vim Razz]

Originally posted by Rolfe
He was pretty much blaming the high incidence of woo in Merika on the military.

I hadn't realised the Heaven's Gate suicides could in a sense be traced back to military woo.

Any opinions on this? I'd place heavier blame on our political and ecconomic structure which goes out of it's way to promote unquestioning acceptance of authority myself. People are conditioned to believe what they're told, no mater how farcical. The military itself is only a tool of institutional policy.

ps: Iraq has WMD's.

pps: IRAQ HAS WMD'S!!

ppps:IRAQ HAS WMD'S!!!! AND THEY"RE TERRORISTS!!! WE MUST ACT NOW!! NOW!!!!!

(And BTW -- Haliburton, etc. must maintain private rights and control to Iraq oil reserves FOR THE SAKE OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE, you understand.)

(ACCEPT IT!!) :D

[shemp]

bump

[Gurdur]

Actually, you should read Ronson's book (of the same name); it will give you more detail than the TV programme, and it is an excellent book, very well-worth reading, as is also his other book Them.

[fuelair]

Actually, you should read Ronson's book (of the same name); it will give you more detail than the TV programme, and it is an excellent book, very well-worth reading, as is also his other book Them.

Is that second book about giant ants trying to take over New Mexico?:D

[RSLancastr]

Darn, I thought Rolfe was back. :(

[Gurdur]

I don't agree Rolfe is right in his summation of the TV prog or of the book. Personally, I'ld simply recommend reading the book to see what Jon Ronson says himself.

[Yahzi]

Darn, I thought Rolfe was back. :(
Me too.

:( :( :(

[Gravy]

I don't agree Rolfe is right in his summation of the TV prog or of the book. Personally, I'ld simply recommend reading the book to see what Jon Ronson says himself.Ronson is a member here under his own name, thought he's only posted a few times. Perhaps he'll get a PM if you want to invite him to a discussion.

[jimtron]

Actually, you should read Ronson's book (of the same name); it will give you more detail than the TV programme, and it is an excellent book, very well-worth reading, as is also his other book Them.

I agree; both books are excellent, and very funny. I'm surprised the "Goats" book hasn't been discussed more here--it covers and ties together a lot of woo from the last 30 or 40 years.

[luchog]

The author Jon Ronsom was online for a chat after the show. He said that it was a contrast between the Clinton administration (where nuttiness was sidelined) and the Bush administration, where nuttiness comes to the fore.

Nuttiness was sidelined during Clinton? Possibly official government nuttiness was, though i'm not acceding that without a lot more evidence; but there was a veritable explosion in New-Agey woo during the '90s. The biggest growth of sCAM was in the mid-late '90s, with numerous insurance companies beginning to cover it, in many places because of government mandated requirements for them to do so. My own state passed a law in 1996 requiring that medical insurance providers offer equal coverage to "alternative" health care (chiropractors, acupuncturists, naturopaths, and so on). The law was challenged, but only changed so that it applied only to state-regulated programs, and exempted private ones. Medicare, the government-run medical insurance program, began offering sCAM coverage in the early '90s iirc; and the federal Office of Alternative Medicine was established in '92.

The Clintons themselves were strong advocates of sCAM, and as president, established the White House Commission on Complementary and Alternative Medicine by executive order.

There are also some vague links between the Clintons, Hillary in paricular, and prominent Washington Scientologists, and as president, Bill's nationa security advisor Sandy Berger was openly sympathetic toward the Co$.

The Clinton era maybe didn't have as much openly relgious stuff as the Bush administration; but it was rife with a whole lot of other nonsense.

[Anders W. Bonde]

Where is Rolfe??? She hasn't posted since June - IIRC her mother was ill, but what of the sorely missed Rolfe, The Master Homeopathetics Slayer?

[Gurdur]

Ronson is a member here under his own name, thought he's only posted a few times. Perhaps he'll get a PM if you want to invite him to a discussion.
A great many thanks for the information, Gravy!

[Blue Bubble]

Badly Shaved Monkey is a personal friend of Rolfe's. Maybe he'd like to update us as much as he feels is allowed ?

Agreed though, Rolfe is much missed.