Desk or field skeptic?

[Garvarn]

Are you a desk or a field skeptic, i.e. are your skeptic activities limited to reading books, participating in online forums, etc., or do you actually go to seances, private sittings, psychic demonstrations and such?

If you're a desk skeptic, why have you chosen not to get field experience and if you're a field skeptic, do you have a strategy or do you just take it as it comes along?

Best regards,
Chateaubriand

[Nex]

I'm a newbie skepchick. Being fully aware of how badly I was taken in in the past, and knowing well the mindset it takes, I'm learning to be a better skeptic so I can help other people from being scammed and defrauded. I've got a long ways to go.

However, I plan on being a field skeptic as well as online. The town I live in is riddled with woo, especially in the sCAM arena, and as I'm training to be a health professional, I feel it's my duty to work against sCAMs like h'pathy, etc.

I don't have any plans, though. It's still a little early for me so I'm just taking it as I go. For example, my final project for my computer science class is powerpoint presentation, and mine is on h'pathy.

Hmeh. I'm learning. :D

[Yaotl]

I'm a desk skeptic because I'm lazy.

[Savagemutt]

I'm a desk skeptic when sober, but I'm perfectly happy to tell people they're full of s!!t about stupid things when drinking.

[CFLarsen]

Both, and very much so.

Strangely enough, most believers don't appreciate it when I am doing field skepticism. Harsh words are ripping through the dimensions, auras are splintered and "Good Times" are nowhere to be found...

They don't appreciate it when I am doing desk skepticism either. Man, those emails I get...

There's no pleasing some people! :D

[Diamond]

Armchair.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Armchair. I'd love to go on a ghost hunt, so I'll have to try harder to find one around here.

I do look up at the sky a lot, but I've never seen an interesting UFO. That's kind of lawnchair skepticism, I guess.

~~ Paul

[Mercutio]

Classroom, mostly.

[Anders W. Bonde]

A bit of both - my wife believes in a lot of woo, particularly religious, "spiritual" and sCAM stuff, (actually the whole woo repertoire - belief is a way of thinking, not a 'what' one thinks phenomenon) so I've got my work cut out, as I don't want our conflict of magical versus rational thinking to interfere with our marriage.

guess it's through her interests that I became interested in real woo, particularly sCAM, and as a consequence, skepticism. I see my biggest task as countrering her pushing of sCAM to family and relatives. As might be expected, I usually get taken to task for how I say things, rather than what I say - the typical woo deflection maneuvre. I actually engage in all my web forum discussions somewhat covertly, but at long last my wife is beginning to open up to listening to arguments in the vax debate, so I think there is still hope and that my fight is worthwhile. But, boy, is it a difficult position I'm in...

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'll say, Anders. Good luck!

~~ Paul

[Kilted_Canuck]

I'm still learning and absorbing skepticism online and in reality...going incognito to believer stuff and just learning, but not confronting (just yet, unless its something that I know enough about to make an impression, otherwise i keep my mouth shut until i can do some research), but I'm not afraid to challenge stuff when I'm in social conversation.

[Jeff Corey]

Both. Field stuff includes investigating claims for NYASk, including the Weeping Icon in Astoria Queens with a follow up with Joe Nickell. Once I helped Ted Debiak test a $million claim made to JREF.
I watched John Edward's live act and counted hits and misses.
Sometimes I pose as the 65 year old hippy and go to Sew Age fairs or stores.
But mostly I do what Merc does. And I use printouts from here and other sites to try to instill critical thinking in my students.

[Garvarn]

We seem to be a mixed lot then - as we should be, perhaps.

Anyway, I'm turning more to the field and hopefully with a strategy that will generate results in the future. I record everything, using a very small MP3-player and a hidden microphone. I'm hoping to get together some kind of network to get recordings from different towns of the same touring seance psychics, for comparison. Do they use the same phrases everywhere? In the future, I hope to be able to send pressreleases to the local press before seances, explaining with transcripts what this coming psychic was up to the last time he was here.

I'm also visiting local tarot ladies and such. They don't charge that much so I'm also able to send my friends in different weeks to check if they get the same reading as I do. We record everything and then compare the sittings.

This of course, is an effort. But I find it much more rewarding than arguing endlessly on the internet. You are always met with the "you-must-experience-it-yourself" attitude online or at the pub. Well, I'm experiencing it now and it's all there; the stock-spiel, the cold reading and even some blunt attempts at hot reading. And no one has been telling the much-heard-about details, no one is telling stuff they impossibly could have known beforehand. But after the seances, you still hear people saying "That was sooouuu amazing! How did he know?" How did he know that a 25 year-old woman likes shoes? How did he know that a 16 year-old girl thinks she don't have enough clothes? What is the spiritual significance in telling a 35 year-old man he has to get in touch with his sensitive side? Field skepticism lets you witness a mental rip-off first hand.

Be there, record and let people know...

[Ashles]

I used to be a field sceptic but I got busted back down to desk duty by my Captain.
I may not have played by the rules but I got results dammit and if those pen pushers up at city hall hadn't got their way I'd still be taking names and busting heads.

[Ashles]

Chateubriand I commend your efforts. It takes some effort and time to do all that, but it is so useful in countering at least some of these claims.

Might there be a website where we can be updated of your progress?

And have you had any experiences so far?

[jj]

I'm a senior officer in the audio-skeptic ranks.

That means I'm out in the field, and have been for at least 15 years.

Yes, I'm also a book skeptic.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Chateaubriand
Be there, record and let people know...

This will, I hope, crystallize into an article for SR?

[deBergerac]

So far I have not done any investigative work but I do let people know my standpoint when the topic comes up for discussion. For example if I go into some New Age store I will discuss what is there. After a lecture on e.g. Reiki I will ask questions.
So I am not only sitting behind my desk, and if I am sitting behind my desk I might very well be writing on something of a sceptical nature.

[Anders]

Desk skeptic, I'm sorry to say. Why? I'm too shy to ask strangers questions. On this board however, shyness is not an issue.

[Beady]

Mainly a desk skeptic, although I do enjoy engaging in guerrilla activities (ie private conversations). I recently shut down a coworker who insisted in the validity of remote viewing by quickly printing off a copy of the Challenge application and handing it to him right on the spot (the conversation was taking place over our cubicle walls). He hasn't mentioned the subject since then.

Another coworker was trying to interest people in firewalking. This time I didn't take the skeptical approach, but found Shame to be a pretty potent weapon. She was presenting it as a method to expand consciousness, so I told the group about my son who, less than a year ago, spent 2 1/2 hours trapped in a ditch in Iraq; before that, he helped build a hospital in Bosnia for children who had been blown up by landmines. I then suggested, somewhat heatedly, that if the group wanted to expand their consciousness perhaps they should find something a little less self-involved, such as volunteer work in a burn ward or a cancer hospice.

I seem to be getting a reputation at work.

[geni]

Mostly desk but I did get in a "debate" with the uni muslim socirety over everlution.

[H'ethetheth]

Desk, lazy.

[steenkh]

Definitely a desk skeptic. I am best at hindsight, so if I tried a field job, I would be muttering to myself "when he said that, I should have said ...", and so on.

[thatguywhojuggles]

Eventually I plan on being a theatrical skeptic. I want to produce and create shows that promote a skeptical view.

[Nex]

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
Eventually I plan on being a theatrical skeptic. I want to produce and create shows that promote a skeptical view.
What a good idea!

If you ever perform in the western North Carolina/eastern Tennessee region, drop me a line so's I can bring my friends. :D

[Azrael 5]

Desk skeptic,but veering ever closer to field.Bit worried a medium will thump me one eventually though..cant imagine they'll like their shows being interrupted with shouts of "whats his middle name?" "Tell me Grandad's birthday then if he's present" etc.But like to email clairvoyants and link this site.Stephen Holbrook is the most regular medium "performing" in my area,and Im just itching to expose him.;)

[Batman Jr.]

I've always been kind of agoraphobic, so I've really remained a desk skeptic. But I definitely want to make an effort to be more active in the future.

[JMA]

Originally posted by Chateaubriand
Are you a desk or a field skeptic, i.e. are your skeptic activities limited to reading books, participating in online forums, etc., or do you actually go to seances, private sittings, psychic demonstrations and such?

I'm a bit dissapointed by de fact that most of the people here are desk skeptic (except Chateaubrian, Corey and Larsen)... I'm feeling that there is maybe a problem with skepticism when I read that.

For me, if you are a skeptic you should go on the field as much as possible. And "lazy" is really not a good excuse for me... I really don't laugh when I read that you don't go on the field because you're lazy. Why? Because proponents are not lazy and they go A LOT on the field. So we should do the same if we want to have really good counter-arguments...

Myself I'm a field skeptic and I go as much as possible outside. And after that I write case study for skeptic french magazine... I have done a few crop circles last years... This is a picture I took from a crop circle I investigated in june 2003 (Jeuk, Belgium)...

http://www.sfmag.net/IMG/jpg/cropcircle.jpg

[Garvarn]

Originally posted by JMA
I'm a bit dissapointed by de fact that most of the people here are desk skeptic (except Chateaubrian, Corey and Larsen)... I'm feeling that there is maybe a problem with skepticism when I read that.


Hi JMA,

Although I understand your position it was not my intention to cause a controversy between desk and field skeptics. I salute both kinds because I do feel that it is necessary to have both -- field skeptics that do confront, or, as in my case, record activities that are fraudelent, and a broad base of desk skeptics that form a group of interest.

My questions were more aimed at what motivates each chategory.

Best regards,
Chateaubriand

[Diamond]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

Sometimes I pose as the 65 year old hippy and go to Sew Age fairs or stores.


It's an incredible disguise you have!

[Ashles]

I'm a bit dissapointed by de fact that most of the people here are desk skeptic (except Chateaubrian, Corey and Larsen)... I'm feeling that there is maybe a problem with skepticism when I read that.
I feel this is a little unfair as this isn't a crusade for many people here, but a mental attitude.

Myself, I will always debate the subject of the paranormal if it is brought up in my everyday life and have sent several e-mails and letters about paranormal beliefs to newspapers and websites.

But my free time is fairly precious and I enjoy spending it in other ways.

I commend you if you do field work and always enjoy reading the results of such work, but I must say that whether you are disappointed in the attitude of other sceptics or not is fairly irrelevent as they have every right to choose how to spend their time.

I don't see this as any kind of war between believers and non-believers. It takes lot for someone to change sides on these issues and they are usually personal reasons that cause these changes, rarely because a new report or study came out.

Chateubriand is right, both types of sceptic are necessary. If everyone who had paranormal or spiritual beliefs got proactive our doorbells would ring off the door from would-be Jehovas Witnesses or UFOlogists.

The problem isn't with scepticism it is with human nature. No matter what your beliefs, some people wish to spread the word, others are happy just to believe in it.

An attitude of disappointment towards those who don't spread their belief is no more appropriate than a missionary looking down on a Christian who merely visits church once a week.

We're all on the same side here and we should respect everyone else's opinions and motivations.

[Joe_Black]

I conducted my own ESP experiments. thats how i got into this psi stuff.

[Correa Neto]

Both, but more deskeptic.

Sometimes I make a couple of undercover activities (to avoid being beaten and to have a better view of how things work, minimizing interference).

Field work is fun. The hardest part is to avoid bursts of laughter.

[JPK]

Desk skeptic. I have little desire to be a "debunker". I do feel that field experience, sitting with mediums, and such will be helpfull for me to understand why there are those that choose the paranormal explanation instead of a mundane one. I doubt that I can change the mind of a believer.
JPK

[thatguywhojuggles]

Originally posted by Nex
What a good idea!

If you ever perform in the western North Carolina/eastern Tennessee region, drop me a line so's I can bring my friends. :D

I have friends and family in Asheville, is that anywhere close to you? I'm sure I'll make it there eventually.

[Nex]

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
I have friends and family in Asheville, is that anywhere close to you? I'm sure I'll make it there eventually.
I live smack in the middle of Asheville. Small world! :eek:

[jj]

Originally posted by JMA
I'm a bit dissapointed by de fact that most of the people here are desk skeptic (except Chateaubrian, Corey and Larsen)... I'm feeling that there is maybe a problem with skepticism when I read that.

Is there a reason you're leaving me out? Hmph. Yes, I work in a field that most others don't, but they don't work there much, either.

[jj]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
Field work is fun. The hardest part is to avoid bursts of laughter.
trVth

Oh, what you said!

"You see, sir, this wire eases the flow of electrons between the crystal grains by using special cold-drawn techniques when the wire is made. Of course, since the signal only flows one direction, you have to pay attention to the lilttle arrows on the plugs."


jj - Urrgh! (trying hard not to roll on the floor laughing) Um, really. Can you show us the difference?

[malbui]

Desk mainly, largely because of lack of time and an overwhelming awareness of how little I really know. I'm pretty widely read (just finished rereading a whole batch of Feynman's lectures, FWIW), but when I get outside my real areas of detailed knowledge (linguistics and AI) I'm not happy arguing the toss.

Having said that, as I get older and grumpier dinner-party conversations become far more interesting. A number of people now know better than to bring up astrology, numerology or homeopathy when I'm in the room.

[JMA]

Originally posted by Chateaubriand
I salute both kinds because I do feel that it is necessary to have both -- field skeptics that do confront, or, as in my case, record activities that are fraudelent, and a broad base of desk skeptics that form a group of interest.

Yes, I do agree with you on that.

But the JREF is probably one of the best skeptic forum on the internet, if not the best :) My dissapointement comes from that also. If the sceptics writting on the JREF forum don't go in the field, who's gonna do it? :(

My questions were more aimed at what motivates each chategory.

- For me, it's really important to see things by myself, to meet the witness and so on. You can have a biased view of the debate if you just read stuff and especially if you read only skeptic stuff... ;)

- Proponent do a lot a field work, so skeptic should do the same. I'm a skeptic, so I feel it's necessary for me to go on the field in order to be able to argue with proponents at the same level.

- Because there is not that much skeptics in Belgium, so if I don't go they'll be only proponent who will investigate that cases...

- because it's fun :p

I hope I don't forget anything :D

[Phrost]

I guess I could be called a "Field" skeptic by virtue of the fact that I've been waging war on woo-woo in the martial arts for 2+ years now over at Bullshido.

Come to think of it, I need to get around to writing a letter to P&T about getting on a martial arts episode of Bullsh*t.

[Edited because the forum's nazi-bot censors the BS word.]

[crimresearch]

In order to write a qualitative research paper on New Age healing modalities from a skeptical viewpoint, I've taken Reiki training up to the Master level, and attended Falun Gong seminars.

[BPScooter]

My attitude about field work in the areas nearest to "paranormal woo-woo" in my professional life are fairly Desk. If I lent my name, reputation, or interest to a topic or research methodology even by my merest acknowledgement, I flatter myself to say that my students might spend time they would otherwise occupy by learning the basic shared truths of the discpline in indulging themselves and gearing up for argument. The argument, in this case, has been won and so they are wasting their time. I'm a conscienctious teacher. I don't want to waste their time. Their parents and the society that gives them college scholarships doesn't want to waste time, either.

I don't teach philosophy, directly. I don't really have a grandiose idea about myself or my own insight. But I think I do have an obligation to steer the youngsters, and I try to do so when I can.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by crimresearch
In order to write a qualitative research paper on New Age healing modalities from a skeptical viewpoint, I've taken Reiki training up to the Master level, and attended Falun Gong seminars.

Where can we read this paper?