Why do dogs misbehave????

[Ralph]

I've had a dog in the house for over 20 years............all golden retreivers.

They're all quite intelligent and see to respond well to training.

Rarely do they do things they've been trained not to do.....

Housebreaking accidents are rare for example--and only seem to occur when the dog was sick........

Most of the books I've read on dog behavior/training state something to the effect that when a dog does something "wrong"---it's only because he doesn't understand what the appropriate action is for a given situation.

So why is it that my present Golden...who happens to like sitting on the couch....and is NOT allowed to do so......continues to do it when he can get away with it.

If I catch him----he IMMEDIATELY jumps off the couch---so I know he knows he's not supposed to do it.

My first Golden did the same thing. When I drove up to the house I could see him thru the window sitting on the couch.

By the time I'd opened the door and actually entered the room----he's sitting down on the floor playing the "good doggy" bit....


.......................................This seems to ga against what the animal behaviorists are saying.................

[Aoidoi]

Well, there's the things you want to do.

And the things you have to do.

Seems clear to me. :D

[Crossbow]

Animals very quickly figure out what they can get away with.

What you may want to try is a bit of aversion therapy such as putting some mouse traps on the couch and cover them with newspaper. Then, when Sir Doggy Dog gets on the couch, the traps will go off with the paper preventing him from getting caught in them, but they will make a sudden, loud noise that he will not enjoy, and they will work when you are not around to watch him.

Good luck!

[Ranb]

When my parent's would come home, they were always happily greeted by the dog when they walked in the door. When the dog did not greet them, they knew something was wrong. The "something wrong" was usually the garbage on the floor. When the dog appeared out of a corner of the house with her tail between her legs, head close to the ground in submission, she was the picture of guilt. She knew getting into the garbage can was wrong. But she did it at times anyway.

Ranb

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Crossbow
Animals very quickly figure out what they can get away with.

What you may want to try is a bit of aversion therapy such as putting some mouse traps on the couch and cover them with newspaper. Then, when Sir Doggy Dog gets on the couch, the traps will go off with the paper preventing him from getting caught in them, but they will make a sudden, loud noise that he will not enjoy, and they will work when you are not around to watch him.

Good luck!
AHAHAHA.......That would definetly scare the hell out of him.............

To tell you the truth though............It's one of those small things I'm willing to overlook since overall---he's such a great dog.

I've accepted the fact that I live in a world full of dog fur. If there's a little more on the couch........I can live with it.

Life would be boring if you didn't do something "wrong" once in awhile..... I suspect it's the same way for dogs.............

[Flaherty]

Just testing the limits.

[Pragmatist]

I think humans anthropomorphise animals too much. What evidence is there that the dog "knows that it's wrong to be on the couch"? All we can say for certain is that the dog knows that if his owner finds him on the couch he'll get thrown off. Therefore the dog's response can be simply a conditioned response to a familiar situation (i.e. owner comes in and if dog is on couch, dog gets thrown off). The judgement that he knows he's "doing wrong" is probably an overestimation of the situation.

[NarrMaster]

Pragmatist said:
think humans anthropomorphise animals too much. What evidence is there that the dog "knows that it's wrong to be on the couch"? All we can say for certain is that the dog knows that if his owner finds him on the couch he'll get thrown off. Therefore the dog's response can be simply a conditioned response to a familiar situation (i.e. owner comes in and if dog is on couch, dog gets thrown off). The judgement that he knows he's "doing wrong" is probably an overestimation of the situation.


You have obviously never seen the look of guilt and shame on a dog's face before.

[Zep]

Oh, Sir Doggy has learned a lesson very well: He cannot sit on the couch WHILE YOU ARE AROUND. You go away, it's all good, couchwise. Knowing that, it's up to you to train him that couch=bad ALL THE TIME (eg. the mousetrap thing).

[Ladewig]

The couch is comfy, smells like you, and is reserved for the "alphas." Why would the dog not want to get some couch time when you are not around?


More importantly, why do you expect dogs to master a concept that many human adults never get the hang of?

[Suezoled]

You've got it wrong. The dog owns the couch. He just lets you use it when you're around.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Zep
Oh, Sir Doggy has learned a lesson very well: He cannot sit on the couch WHILE YOU ARE AROUND. You go away, it's all good, couchwise. Knowing that, it's up to you to train him that couch=bad ALL THE TIME (eg. the mousetrap thing).

Bingo!

Sir Doggy Dog needs to learn that the authority of the human is in force when the human is physically present and when the human is not physically present.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by NarrMaster
You have obviously never seen the look of guilt and shame on a dog's face before. I would give much of my worldly wealth to know how much of this is anthropomorphism.

I think it has to be at least some, because I don't believe animals conceive of "right" and "wrong" in the way we do. But I do suspect that they conceive of "behaviour which will piss-off my owner/alpha/staff" (depending on whether said animal is dog or cat!) and is therefore pegged as "undesirable" even though other pressures such as comfort or carpe diem may induce the behaviour to be exhibited.

Then of course I've seen some very compelling instances of animals apparently deliberately pissing-off said owner/alpha/staff apparently in retaliation for some perceived slight or wrong. Which is an interesting one.

Rolfe.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Pragmatist
I think humans anthropomorphise animals too much. What evidence is there that the dog "knows that it's wrong to be on the couch"? All we can say for certain is that the dog knows that if his owner finds him on the couch he'll get thrown off. Therefore the dog's response can be simply a conditioned response to a familiar situation (i.e. owner comes in and if dog is on couch, dog gets thrown off). The judgement that he knows he's "doing wrong" is probably an overestimation of the situation.
The dog is probably not that concerned about being thrown off the couch per se. The owner/boss is displeased so the dog puts on a display of submissive behaviour, which the owner reads as "guilt."

[Ralph]

I think most retrievers operate under the principal of "It is better to beg for forgiveness than permission".

[MetalSeagull]

The payoff is better than the deterant if you're not around. Essentially, there's no deterant.


Originally posted by Rolfe


Then of course I've seen some very compelling instances of animals apparently deliberately pissing-off said owner/alpha/staff apparently in retaliation for some perceived slight or wrong. Which is an interesting one.

Rolfe.


Yes!
I swear I think my oldest cat did this to me one time. We had recently brought in a new animal. He wasn't happy, but seemed no more put out than he had with the other additions.

I was making the bed and he was playing in the sheets as usual, when he squatted. I had just enough time to think, "Huh, he looks just like he's going to pee."
Yep.

We react with alarm, scramble to get the sheets off before it soaks through. There is much consternation as he had NEVER done anything like that before. Could he have a kidney infection? The urine looked normal, but maybe.

So we change the bedding from the mattress cover on, and are just finishing up. And he does it AGAIN! He didn't get a third chance at it, as we finally kicked him out.


A later vet check showed no kidney problems. This behavior has never recurred.

[WildCat]

I'm addicted to the program on the National Geographic Channel "The Dog Whisperer". On the show, he visits people w/ problem dogs and cures them of the behavior in a remarkably short amount of time. No claims to the supernatural or BS like "The Pet Psychic", he just has a great feel for dog behavior and psychology. I highly recommend it for all dog owners, and even those who don't own a dog, like me.

[John Bentley]

Originally posted by MetalSeagull
Yes!
I swear I think my oldest cat did this to me one time. We had recently brought in a new animal. He wasn't happy, but seemed no more put out than he had with the other additions.

I was making the bed and he was playing in the sheets as usual, when he squatted. I had just enough time to think, "Huh, he looks just like he's going to pee."
Yep.

We react with alarm, scramble to get the sheets off before it soaks through. There is much consternation as he had NEVER done anything like that before. Could he have a kidney infection? The urine looked normal, but maybe.

So we change the bedding from the mattress cover on, and are just finishing up. And he does it AGAIN! He didn't get a third chance at it, as we finally kicked him out.


A later vet check showed no kidney problems. This behavior has never recurred.

This is typical cat marking behavior. He marks all property that he considers "his" with his urine in order to establish dominance. Typical behavior after new additions. In the wild, cats will mark just about every tree on the boundary of their domain, with urine and claw marks. Domesticated cats are a little less rigorous, and will usually mark one item they use a lot in each room. Hence - the couch usually reeks, and the bed is a favorite target. Sorry, but it has nothing to do with you at all. The only reason he did it again was because you removed his first mark. The behavior usually passes when the new addition is accepted into the household. This time varies widely with cats. Some never accept the new one, and mark constantly from then on.