US/Brit Air Force able to wipe out Iraq ground forces?

[Tmy]

I heard reports that Iraqi tanks are moving across the country and looking to meet Allied ground forces. Shoudlnt we be able to bomb them into spare parts before they cound get into fireing range.? I know the 'copters cant fly in the sand storms but what about the bombers? The allies seem to be in full control of the airspace.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Tmy
I heard reports that Iraqi tanks are moving across the country and looking to meet Allied ground forces. Shoudlnt we be able to bomb them into spare parts before they cound get into fireing range.? I know the 'copters cant fly in the sand storms but what about the bombers? The allies seem to be in full control of the airspace.

If they are in the open then they will soon be toast. The storms are grounding alot of flights, but I heard the Naval aviators are not detered and are still flying a full slate of combat sorties. One of them was on Fox a few mins ago and called his job "putting warheads on foreheads". :D

[arcticpenguin]

Bombers would need some way to target the vehicles. I don't know how the sandstorm would affect various targetting technologies.

For GPS you need to get an accurate location somehow - visual ID, radar, something.

Laser targetting probably wouldn't work too well.

You could use dumb bombs, but you'd still need to know where to drop them.

I have an idea; maybe we could just deploy special forces troops to change the highway signs, and lead the Iraqis in the wrong direction.

[hgc]

This brings up something that concerns me about our news coverage, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

We get wall-to-wall coverage, but some things seem to drop off the radar that might be very interesting to know about.

For instance, a few days ago, there was the Apache helicopter downed where the two pilots were captured.

1) There were also reports of a 2nd Apache down where the pilots were rescued. But then, nothing after that, that I heard, about losing 2 Apaches -- just 1.

2) And this is relevant to this thread ... These were part of a fleet of Apaches attacking Iraqi armor, and they ran into significant ground fire (RPG's and small weopons) that seemed to thwart their attack. I say "seemed" because I don't know actually. The news accounts are very unclear about whether the Apaches were able to successfully attack and destroy tanks. I would think that this would be very big (and bad) news if these $22 million aircraft, which are supposed to be part of the big equalizer against superior Iraqi numbers, aren't actually able to do it.

Anyone have good info about this stuff?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
I heard reports that Iraqi tanks are moving across the country and looking to meet Allied ground forces. Shoudlnt we be able to bomb them into spare parts before they cound get into fireing range.? I know the 'copters cant fly in the sand storms but what about the bombers? The allies seem to be in full control of the airspace.

1,000 enemy tanks are closing on the 3/7th Cavalry. This is going to be the mother of all goddamned battles. The sandstorm has limited visibility on the ground to 75 meters.

Movies will be made about this battle due at any moment. Stay tuned because this battle is going to be one that rips Iraqi soldier's eyebrows off. :D

Jedi knows. ;)

JK

[FFed]

This may be another highway of death or whatever they called it in 1991 when they massacred them while they are retreating. When you have air superiority and the enemy is out in the open, then the enemy should have no chance. Maybe start with some B-52 carpet bombing.

[Number Six]

I don't understand. Getting a big fighting force out into the open where the coalition can bomb the heck out of them would seem to be exactly what the coalition wants. Why is Iraq doing this? Even with the sandstorm I'd guess coalition warplanes could kill them easily so long as they're not really close to our own troops. What am I missing?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by rikzilla


If they are in the open then they will soon be toast. The storms are grounding alot of flights, but I heard the Naval aviators are not detered and are still flying a full slate of combat sorties. One of them was on Fox a few mins ago and called his job "putting warheads on foreheads". :D



Did you see the video of the vehicle being killed under the bridge, with the bridge virtually untouched?

Cool!!:D

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by hgc
This brings up something that concerns me about our news coverage, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

We get wall-to-wall coverage, but some things seem to drop off the radar that might be very interesting to know about.

For instance, a few days ago, there was the Apache helicopter downed where the two pilots were captured.

1) There were also reports of a 2nd Apache down where the pilots were rescued. But then, nothing after that, that I heard, about losing 2 Apaches -- just 1.

2) And this is relevant to this thread ... These were part of a fleet of Apaches attacking Iraqi armor, and they ran into significant ground fire (RPG's and small weopons) that seemed to thwart their attack. I say "seemed" because I don't know actually. The news accounts are very unclear about whether the Apaches were able to successfully attack and destroy tanks. I would think that this would be very big (and bad) news if these $22 million aircraft, which are supposed to be part of the big equalizer against superior Iraqi numbers, aren't actually able to do it.

Anyone have good info about this stuff?
Yeah, and what happened to those @$%^@$@#$% mystery ships?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin

Yeah, and what happened to those @$%^@$@#$% mystery ships?

If it had been something, the media could rub someone's nose in, you can bet your sweet petunia they would have..


They have much bigger fish to fry now...;)

[hgc]

Diogenes:

If it had been something, the media could rub someone's nose in, you can bet your sweet petunia they would have..
Igorance is bliss.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Number Six
I don't understand. Getting a big fighting force out into the open where the coalition can bomb the heck out of them would seem to be exactly what the coalition wants. Why is Iraq doing this? Even with the sandstorm I'd guess coalition warplanes could kill them easily so long as they're not really close to our own troops. What am I missing?

Its a ruse IMO. Basra is ivested by 7th Armoured. The Iraqis break out a significant amount of armour in the hope of drawing off most of 7th Armoured's tanks and then they use the rest of their armour to smash the remaining British forces investing the city.

One thing is pissing me off is that all the news coverage is so local and speculative that you really cant form an informed opinion.

Better if there was a news blackout.

[Doubt]

A couple of quick notes on optics for weapons.

Western tanks have thermal sights as well as plan old visual ones. Reports say they can see quite well with them even in a sandstorm. I don't have any first hand knowledge of how well they do work. If the Republican guard wants to come out in the open and fight, they probably are going to get reduced to red colored oatmeal in a hurry. Sandstorm or no sandstorm.

The tanks probably have their hatches closed right now, which limits overall visibility and probably explains why light forces with RPGs have made up close enough to fire on the tanks. To bad the RPG technology is about 50 years old and not very likely to kill a tank. The Bradley fighting vehicles are vulnerable to those old rockets. About the best the Iraqi's can expect is to take out some tread on the tanks. It will delay an advance, but it probably will cost the Iraqi side a lot of troops.

As for the Airforce and Navy aircraft, they do have a piece of technology that will work well in a sandstorm. FLIR, (forward looking infra red,) targeting systems for dumb bombs have been around for quite some time. However, I do not think the services purchased many of them. To use a FLIR pack, a plane will have to fly at low altitude and visually lock on to the target using an infra red camera. The computer that is part of the system will control the bomb release. FLIR packs were designed for night and fog conditions where the plane will not be easy to spot at low altitude.

During the Gulf War I, A-10 pilots made use of infra red cameras in Maverick missiles as a sort of poor man's FLIR pack. They would use the camera to aim dumb bombs and not fire the missile. After the war the A-10's were to be fitted with permanent IR sights. I do not know if the air force followed through on this.

There may also be another (non-optical) option, but I am speculating here. If the Air force has a JSTARS aircraft around, it may be able to pinpoint large numbers of individual vehicles with its very powerful side looking radar. Compare the relative distance and direction from the Radar to an onboard GPS system and you may be able to pass along the coordinates needed for the use of GPS guided bombs. I am sure the flyboys have thought of this, but I do not know if they have tried it. It would work best on stationary targets.

Edited to make the Golf the Gulf....doh!

[Jon_in_london]

Also I think the reason we arent hearing about apache/tornado/harrier/f-18 strikes against enemy armour is due to the fact that there is no press 'embedded' with the Iraqi divisions.

IMO, we a seeing a very distorted picture of what actually happens.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by hgc

Igorance is bliss.

Just had a flash of an illustration I saw, where this big herd of dinosaurs, some with a mouthful of whatever it was they were eating, looking up into the sky at this large firey object, hurtling down toward them...:eek:

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Doubt
A couple of quick notes on optics for weapons.

Snipp..

Edited to make the Golf the Gulf....doh!

Great info..

Something else to think about....


We know they are headed toward our position.. Heh, Heh....:D

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


1,000 enemy tanks are closing on the 3/7th Cavalry. This is going to be the mother of all goddamned battles. The sandstorm has limited visibility on the ground to 75 meters.

Movies will be made about this battle due at any moment.

JK

Yeah, and it will probably feature Bruce Willis as main hero. Quick JK, get the Kleenex Box ready!
:D

Schtonk

Zee

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Number Six
I don't understand. Getting a big fighting force out into the open where the coalition can bomb the heck out of them would seem to be exactly what the coalition wants. Why is Iraq doing this? Even with the sandstorm I'd guess coalition warplanes could kill them easily so long as they're not really close to our own troops. What am I missing?

I think the question is " What are they missing ? "

What made German officers and troops continue to follow Hitlers orders, in what were obviously hopeless situations?

If anything, it suggests that Saddam is alive, and determined to go out in a blaze of glory...

[Baggle]

Will this be when we are going to release the MOAB? Seems like the perfect time for this weapon to be used.

-Baggle

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Baggle
Will this be when we are going to release the MOAB? Seems like the perfect time for this weapon to be used.

-Baggle

You mean Mother Of All Bushs like in Barbara Bush? Now that's a bit harsh, don't you think?

:D

Zee