Spikes through cheeks

[rossminster]

I'm a TV producer researching "paranormal" topics, and wonder if anyone can shed light on the phenomenon of fakirs and others shoving metal spikes through their cheeks without, apparently, suffering any pain and only a little, if any, bleeding.

Can anyone do it? Is it a matter of just having the balls to do it? I imagine it would hurt terribly. I have seen some hilarious old film of a man called Pedro Hoy doing it, but it's hardly uncommon.

Any comments welcome.

[Ratman_tf]

They show stuff like that on Ripleys.
As a matter of fact, they had a bit on Fear Factor (not that I watch the show, I just happened to surf over at the right moment) where they pierced the participant's arms with about 10 or 15 big needles. Hardly any bleeding until they pulled them out, and even then there wasn't much blood.

Interesting and all that, but nothing paranormal about it.

[Dr Adequate]

Mostly done in India, if you're looking for links. Here's a picture of the publisher of the Indian Skeptic showing that he can do it too.

http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/bp.jpg

[Dragonrock]

One thing to ask is "Do you spray blood everywhere when the doctor gives you a shot?" Most people might bleed a little after the needle is removed, but the needle itself prevents bleeding while it is inserted.

[Jeff Corey]

And a doctor usually gives you a shot into a vein. The wall of the vein is punctured and when the needle is removed, there is leakage.
If you insert a sterile needle into the skin where there are no veins or arteries, little, if any bleeding will occur.
Don't try this trick at home.

[Dr Adequate]

More on those Indian Skeptics --- Premanand performs (http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/byljones.htm) :
The performer was everyone's idea of a bearded Indian guru. He ate glass, ran flaming torches along his bare arms, handled lighted camphor freely and put it into his mouth, hung a weight on a hook stitched through his skin, shoved a nasty-looking spike through his tongue without harm or any bleeding, caused pieces of paper to burst into flame by the power of thought, changed a single biscuit into a pile of dozens of them, produced enough holy ash out of thin air to be able to deliver some to a great many people ln the audience, showed spoons that bent and broke at a touch, and, of course, turned water into wine.

And that would have been enough for any self-respecting guru. But this was no guru. This was Premanand, whose mission was not only to demonstrate miracles, but to explain how they were all done. And this he did, to the further amazement and amusement of his audience.

...

Some of the other items require simple gimmicked apparatus. The spike doesn't really go through the tongue: there's a little U-bend in the middle that fits around the tongue. But it looks alarmingly realistic. Premanand left a few sets of the gimmicked spikes with Mike Hutchinson, for sale. If you fancy upsetting squeamish neighbours, give Mike a ring (081 5080 2989).
I hope this gives you a lead. You could try getting in touch with the Indian Skeptic (http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html) --- I'm sure they'd be glad to help. Or possibly if you PM'd Sujay, he's an Indian sceptic, and might be able to tell you more.

Edited to add: I don't know what your budget is, but if you could point a camera at this Premanand guy for an hour, I'd watch the show.

It's nice that a TV producer is bothering to talk to sceptics before making a program on the paranormal. You'd be surprised how many don't.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by rossminster
I'm a TV producer researching "paranormal" topics, and wonder if anyone can shed light on the phenomenon of fakirs and others shoving metal spikes through their cheeks without, apparently, suffering any pain and only a little, if any, bleeding.

Can anyone do it? Is it a matter of just having the balls to do it? I imagine it would hurt terribly. I have seen some hilarious old film of a man called Pedro Hoy doing it, but it's hardly uncommon.

Any comments welcome.

It looks painful, but it's not. The pain you feel can't exceed the nerve endings you damage, and something thin like that needle can't really hurt much. Unless you stick it somewhere sensitive like in your eyeball.

[chance]

Every year in Penang Malaysia, the Thipuson(sp) festival has local Indian devoties march in a parade, some have spikes through their cheeks, tongue, or hooks in their back pulling some load.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by chance
Every year in Penang Malaysia, the Thipuson(sp) festival has local Indian devoties march in a parade, some have spikes through their cheeks, tongue, or hooks in their back pulling some load.

Yep. We're talking about two different things here, folks.

There ARE conjuring tricks like the spike through tongue as shown above.

However, fetishists of many different religions ACTUALLY undergo piercings and body mutilations of all sorts. The NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC should provide information on various tribal customs of this sort.

Also note that the "spiritual" side of such practices is similar to the flagellation cults, where pain is endured or overcome in sympathy with a god or martyr.

I think it is in the Philippenes where at Easter, someone volunteers to ACTUALLY be nailed to the cross in imitation of Christ. The large nails are hammered through his hands (not the way the Romans did it) and he is crucified for a short time.

The key to your research is "piercing fetish".

As mentioned above, the piercings are often in areas that don't bleed much. Not something for the uninitiated to try, however!

[Aussie Thinker]

There is a definite combination of trickery and reality in piercings.

Many are just tricks. I saw a fantastic use of glue and skin folding once that you would SWEAR was a spike going through skin.

Some people REALLY do piece though and suffer the “relatively small� amount of pain this causes.

I had my ear pierced once years ago and had to ask the girl if she had actually done it yet.. all I felt was a flick like a finger hitting my ear.

Most piercings are done where sharp needles will cause VERY little pain (and show little blood).. when they are done in painful areas.. apply the rule.. Its probably FAKE

[epepke]

Originally posted by rossminster
I'm a TV producer researching "paranormal" topics, and wonder if anyone can shed light on the phenomenon of fakirs and others shoving metal spikes through their cheeks without, apparently, suffering any pain and only a little, if any, bleeding.

Can anyone do it? Is it a matter of just having the balls to do it? I imagine it would hurt terribly. I have seen some hilarious old film of a man called Pedro Hoy doing it, but it's hardly uncommon.

Any comments welcome.

How many people do you know with pierced tongues? I know a lot. Yeah, they said it hurt, but once you do it once, it's easy to do it the remaining times. Just use the holes. They're hard to see when the spikes are removed.

[WildCat]

There was a pic a few days ago in the Chicago Tribune of a man at the Vegetarian Festival in Phuket (!) Thailand w/ a bicycle pierced through his face. It was no illusion! This article (http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_2469605) mentions it but for some reason chose to put far less interesting pics on the page, and there's no pics on the Tribunes online story, unfortunately. It was quite a pic!

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by epepke
How many people do you know with pierced tongues? I know a lot. Yeah, they said it hurt, but once you do it once, it's easy to do it the remaining times. Just use the holes. They're hard to see when the spikes are removed.

I had my tongue pierced and it was similar to the ear piercing someone else mentioned.

"Euh? I'm done?"

Afterwards it was a bit sore and definitely swollen, but that was it/

[songstress]

I have seen those pictures of people with cheeks, tongues, etc pierced. It all looks eye-wateringly painful to me!

Ugh!

I don't think that there's anything paranormal about it. Just some show-offs proving something to themselves. Just my personal view.

Patsy.
:(

[Psi Baba]

Originally posted by rossminster
I'm a TV producer researching "paranormal" topics, and wonder if anyone can shed light on the phenomenon of fakirs and others shoving metal spikes through their cheeks without, apparently, suffering any pain and only a little, if any, bleeding.

Can anyone do it? Is it a matter of just having the balls to do it? I imagine it would hurt terribly. I have seen some hilarious old film of a man called Pedro Hoy doing it, but it's hardly uncommon.

Any comments welcome.
rossminster, if you haven't already seen it, try to track down a program called The Guru Busters. There is some footage of cheek piercings and similar stunts. The program also features the above-mentioned champion of rationality B. Premanand. It should give you some good ideas for your project.

[rossminster]

Fascinating replies - thank you all.

Part of what I am aiming at in this programme, which is still in development, is a recreation of lots of "paranormal" stuff, revealing it not to be paranormal at all. This is why I am wanting to find out if the spike thru cheek thing was dangerous or painful - could I persuade a presenter (or even member of the public, or brave sceptic) to do it and not have my ass sued from here to eternity!

When and if this gets made, perhaps I'll approach the forum for willing volunteers.

A room full of sceptics all stabbing themselves in the face - now *that's* TV :eek:

[Dr Adequate]

Ooh, ooh, do firewalking.

Michael Shermer explains it something like this: "When you take a cake out of the oven, the air in the oven, the cake, and the tin, are all the same temperature. The air has low heat capacity and conductivity, so it doesn't burn you. The cake has high heat capacity but low conductivity, so it doesn't burn you. The tin has high heat capacity and conductivity, so it burns you if you touch it.

Hot ashes are like cake."

Firewalking is quite popular among sceptics, I gather. Where are you based? You might yet get your volunteers.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Ooh, ooh, do firewalking.

Michael Shermer explains it something like this: "When you take a cake out of the oven, the air in the oven, the cake, and the tin, are all the same temperature. The air has low heat capacity and conductivity, so it doesn't burn you. The cake has high heat capacity but low conductivity, so it doesn't burn you. The tin has high heat capacity and conductivity, so it burns you if you touch it.

Hot ashes are like cake."

Firewalking is quite popular among sceptics, I gather. Where are you based? You might yet get your volunteers. Wonder why we never hear of fire ' sitting ' ?

[rossminster]

[B]Wonder why we never hear of fire ' sitting ' ?

LOL! I'm based in London and yes, firewalking is on the list (though I have seen this debunked before - no reason not to do it again of course)

(Incidentally, I once produced an item on ITV with the Shaolin Monks. After they were on, the floor manager showed me one of the poles they had snapped with their bare hands: it had clearly been sawn halfway through!!)

[True-Gossiper]

I have a more-than-100minutes video of a religious ritual where a group of people perform the nasty needle thru skins. It was a parade of something, around 50 people of various ages walking in streets, thrusting more than 5 big and long needles to their cheeks, neck skin, and other places. It's a scary performance.

So far, I don't find any trickery. The steel really went thru the skins. I'd really to send this video to Randi or others for further inspection, but I don't have the money to pay for the mailing cost..

:(

[rossminster]

Hang on to it, True Gossiper! If and when this show gets made, I'm sure we can cover the cost of your postage plus a payment for your trouble. THanks

[True-Gossiper]

Cool! And if you’d really like to get more materials on the TVshow, I suggest you go here and dig more in the Indonesian culture. We have various claims of supernatural stunts. Some of them are blatant trickery as I discovered it, while some others still puzzled me.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I have vague recollections of a Japanese endurance type gameshow (which are a great source for the "look what funny foreigners do" shows that British TV likes to make) where the contestants were lined up and had a 12 foot long metal spike pushed through all of their cheeks in a sort of human kebab.

Looked like it hurt them!

[Yaotl]

Originally posted by songstress
I have seen those pictures of people with cheeks, tongues, etc pierced. It all looks eye-wateringly painful to me!

Ugh!

I don't think that there's anything paranormal about it. Just some show-offs proving something to themselves. Just my personal view.

Patsy.
:(

My wife had two piercings through each cheek for a few years. She never really mentioned the bleeding or pain. She described her tongue piercing as just pressure. She bled quite a bit for her ears in certain places, but not any real pain.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Yaotl
My wife had two piercings through each cheek for a few years. She never really mentioned the bleeding or pain. She described her tongue piercing as just pressure. She bled quite a bit for her ears in certain places, but not any real pain.

I think it is said that women have a higher pain threshold compared to men.:(