I've never met a black atheist

[Beanbag]

Just got back from a local atheist group function. They had a guest speaker I thought might be interesting, so I dropped by.

As I was at the meeting, I looked over the other attendees, and noted that it was one of the most lily-white functions I'd ever been to (self included). No african-americans. No hispanics. Just a couple of asians (all female, there with their caucasoid boyfriends).

I'm not really sure what to make of it. Not that it's such an earthshaking revelation, but one might expect a more diverse attendance at an atheist function. It might be interesting to stop by the local Humanist "church" and see what the congregation is like (except for the fact that they call it a church, which brings back all kinds of bad memories and associations).

Regards;
Beanbag

[c4ts]

That doesn't mean there's any kind of correlation.

[Beanbag]

Or it just might be (after I've had a chance to mull things over a bit) that I HAVE met one (or many) black atheists. It's just that I didn't know they were atheists. We tend to be a secretive bunch at times. Few who interact with me in the real world know my religious philosophies (or the lack of them).

Still, there weren't any at the meeting.

Regards;
Beanbag

[epepke]

Originally posted by Beanbag
Just got back from a local atheist group function. They had a guest speaker I thought might be interesting, so I dropped by.

I met a Black guy at a freethought convention in Alabama. I asked him what he did for a living, and he replied "Editor of Free Inquiry." I don't think that atheist fides get a lot more bona than that.

I also had a Black lover who was weak atheist/agnostic/irreligious. Just the one, but I haven't had any other Black lovers, so I can't do proper statistics. She pointed out to me that it's really difficult for a Black person to admit to being atheist, because there's so much pressure in Black communities to be religious, and the churches have so much influence. But she lived in an integrated neighborhood, and her parents were only weakly theistic.

So, Black atheists at least exist. Maybe they are rarer, or maybe they tend to be more closeted, or something.

[Checkmite]

Oops, double post.

[Checkmite]

Meet a black atheist: http://www.infidelguy.com

[espritch]

To be black in America is to be part of a minority that has suffered a lot of descrimination. Would you really want to add to that by admitting you are an atheist (another minority that isn't particularly well loved by the majority)?

Then there is also the fact that churches have traditionally played a more central roll in the lives blacks. Black culture and religion are closely related. Most of the civil rights leaders were also preachers.

Then there is also the simple fact that there are a lot more whilte people than black so there are going to be a lot more white atheists than black ones.

[jay gw]

Facts

1. Most blacks are religious.

2. Most Hispanics are Catholics.

[American]

Originally posted by Beanbag

I'm not really sure what to make of it.

Yes you do, though you may not love the idea.

Originally posted by c4ts
That doesn't mean there's any kind of correlation.

Step 1 is to deny it, which the whole point here is that he observed it to be a fact. Next you will rationalize it with lame excuses. Then, faced with obvious reality, you will call people racists, bigots, and nazis for not closing their eyes to play along with your whacked view of the world.

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by American
Yes you do, though you may not love the idea.

Many possible explanations came to mind. Depending on one's personal frame of reference, some explanations could be more reprehensible than others.

To me, I was just struck that the makeup of the people attending was considerably different from the population at large.

Don't worry: some of my BEST friends are Baptists. Along with a reformed Catholic or two.

Regards;
Beanbag

[Loon]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we have a black atheist on this forum. She's very concerned about minority involvement in critical thinking and skepticism. She also just finished a novel....

Beanbag, it also matters how big the black population near you is. It could also be that the strong church in many communities causes people who would otherwise be hard atheists into soft atheists or agnostics.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by American
Yes you do, though you may not love the idea.



I'm having trouble. Why don't you help me out?

[American]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
I'm having trouble. Why don't you help me out?

Beanbag is a racist.

[synaesthesia]

This guy's great:
http://www.infidelguy.com/

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by American
Beanbag is a racist.

THAT has to be the flyer of all time, based on the fact that I commented that there were no black people at the atheist meeting.

I suppose I should rise in indignation and make claims about not being a racist, and how the issue of skin color only comes into play when I'm working as a photographer (dark african americans require at least 1/2 f-stop more exposure to get good detail on their features), but I (almost) never make it easy for the troll. I'm gonna make you dig for it for a while longer before I decide to put you on ignore.

Regards;
Beanbag

[American]

Originally posted by Beanbag

I suppose I should rise in indignation and make claims about not being a racist, and how the issue of skin color only comes into play when I'm working as a photographer (dark african americans require at least 1/2 f-stop more exposure to get good detail on their features), but I (almost) never make it easy for the troll. I'm gonna make you dig for it for a while longer before I decide to put you on ignore.

Why do you hate black people so much? Did a black girl turn you down, or a black boy stole from your mailbox many years ago?

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by American
Why do you hate black people so much? Did a black girl turn you down, or a black boy stole from your mailbox many years ago?

Did anyone hear an irritating, buzzing sound just now?

Regards;
Beanbag

[George]

Originally posted by Beanbag
Just got back from a local atheist group function. They had a guest speaker I thought might be interesting, so I dropped by.

As I was at the meeting, I looked over the other attendees, and noted that it was one of the most lily-white functions I'd ever been to (self included). No african-americans. No hispanics. Just a couple of asians (all female, there with their caucasoid boyfriends).

I'm not really sure what to make of it. Not that it's such an earthshaking revelation, but one might expect a more diverse attendance at an atheist function. It might be interesting to stop by the local Humanist "church" and see what the congregation is like (except for the fact that they call it a church, which brings back all kinds of bad memories and associations).

Regards;
Beanbag

Hi Mr Bean.
How many people attended the meeting.

[jay gw]

It's easy to determine it as fact if one of you would just look at census/poll data and see how blacks fit with atheism, going to church etc.

There's no doubt that blacks and hispanics are more religious than other groups in the US. No clue as to why though.

[monkboon]

Originally posted by Beanbag
It might be interesting to stop by the local Humanist "church" and see what the congregation is like (except for the fact that they call it a church, which brings back all kinds of bad memories and associations).

From your location, I think I know which church you refer to (see my signature). It's worth a shot, so why not come out some time? What have you got to lose?

A Dallas Morning News article 5 years ago, featuring a photograph of my wife and me enjoying an NTCOF service, bore the headline "Atheists Need Fellowship, Too." Really, that sums up what we are about better than anything else.

As for calling ourselves a church, technically that's what we are, but you're not the first to be concerned about the name. I couldn't care less, church is just a word to me. But your point is well taken.


As I was at the meeting, I looked over the other attendees, and noted that it was one of the most lily-white functions I'd ever been to (self included). No african-americans. No hispanics. Just a couple of asians (all female, there with their caucasoid boyfriends).

I have an African American friend who says she's undecided, but she's not ready to call herself atheist (yet). But then, I was an atheist for nearly 15 years before I was willing to be public about it. Around here, that's pretty understandable. She occasionally joins us at NTCOF's monthly gatherings and has a good time. Her only complaint so far has been the distance (about a 1/2 hour drive both ways for me, another 10-15 for her).

However, if you're looking for racial diversity, we're still pretty small, and nearly "lilly-white," though not by design. All are welcome. There are no membership requirements, no dues (but donations, of course, are welcome), no weekly/monthly ritual, and absolutely no dogma. We have had weddings, funerals and naming ceremonies for those so inclined. We are, as my signature says, a fellowship of unbelievers.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by American
Beanbag is a racist.

Don't worry Beanbag, American has a lot (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45242) of (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32963) issues (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46321).

*cough* *cough*

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by George
Hi Mr Bean.
How many people attended the meeting.

Roughly 30, give or take. The speaker and topic were interesting. Up to this point, the typical portrayal of Madelin Murray O'hare (sp?) by the mainstream was some malignant old bat. This gave a more human side.

Regards;
Beanbag

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
Don't worry Beanbag, American has a lot (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45242) of (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32963) issues (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46321).

*cough* *cough*

Really? (no smilie with a country-dumb idiot look).

Gee. I'd never noticed ;) .

(I may look dumb; that's --mostly-- an act)

Regards;
Beanbag

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by monkboon

A Dallas Morning News article 5 years ago, featuring a photograph of my wife and me enjoying an NTCOF service, bore the headline "Atheists Need Fellowship, Too." Really, that sums up what we are about better than anything else.

That was an interesting point brought up after the speaker's presentation. An attendee from Alabama made some comment that the atheist organizations he'd helped to found had "degenerated" to simply a social group. My personal opinion is that an organization needs the social cohesiveness of the group as a foundation for anything further that it wants to implement. I'm not interested in enlisting in a "cause" at this time. Call it shallow of me, but there are some immediate issues that require almost all of my attention and energies to deal with.

Originally posted by monkboon
As for calling ourselves a church, technically that's what we are, but you're not the first to be concerned about the name. I couldn't care less, church is just a word to me. But your point is well taken.

It serves as a convenient handle when dealing with believers and officials. Plus, it has a less threatening sound. I suppose it's easier for a Humanist church to book a room than the Godless Spit and Whittle Society. For me, though, "church" brings back memories of being crammed in a room, singing inane songs, and listening to parables that I found less credible than the Tooth Faerie.

Racial diversity isn't a requirement. I'm intelligent enough to realize that diversity just sorta happens, and can't be mandated. It's always an interesting datum to see who's attending. The OP was just an observation and to see what others might have to add.

Regards;
Beanbag

[neutrino_cannon]

I'm getting 12% for the black population of Texas, but I can't find any good numbers for atheists in that country... er... state.

Anyway, assuming about 10% (which arbitrarily seems reasonable), you would have an average of .36 black atheists for every random gathering of 30 people in N_C's model Texas. The chances are not that good.

[American]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon
I'm getting 12% for the black population of Texas, but I can't find any good numbers for atheists in that country... er... state.

Anyway, assuming about 10% (which arbitrarily seems reasonable), you would have an average of .36 black atheists for every random gathering of 30 people in N_C's model Texas. The chances are not that good.

Never fill prescriptions.

[American]

88% chance that a person selected at random will be white. Assuming we don't deplete the population as we draw (we won't unless it's a tiny little town), .88^30 = 2.2% chance they will all be white.

Or, roughly 1 in 50 times will you have a meeting of 30 people and find only white people. Otherwise one must assume the selection process is either tied to race directly as a cause, or indirectly as a correlation.

[American]

Ooops. I forgot hispanics.

Let's say whites are 70%. That gives us only a 0.0023% shot at achieving Beanbag's dream of a whites-only meeting.

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by American
Ooops. I forgot hispanics.

Let's say whites are 70%. That gives us only a 0.0023% shot at achieving Beanbag's dream of a whites-only meeting.

Funny. There's that sound again. Sort of like an annoying fly. Did anyone else hear it?

Regards;
Beanbag

[uruk]

I don't know if this counts (because I'm half hispanic) but I'm as athiestic as an agnostic can get. But I haven't attended any athiest meetings. I don't even know if there are any athiest organizations down here in south Texas.
Maybe I should start one.

[Swishy McJackass]

What part of south Texas?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Beanbag
Funny. There's that sound again. Sort of like an annoying fly. Did anyone else hear it?

Regards;
Beanbag

dude...relax, it's supposed to be humor, if you don't get it, don't worry about it. Some people are *way* too wound up.

[uruk]

What part of south Texas?

WWWWaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy down south. The Rio Grande Valley area. McAllen, Texas to be precise.

What part you from?

[uruk]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Beanbag
Funny. There's that sound again. Sort of like an annoying fly. Did anyone else hear it?

Regards;
Beanbag
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



dude...relax, it's supposed to be humor, if you don't get it, don't worry about it. Some people are *way* too wound up.

Beanbag, If you wanted to be humorus too, You could say to him:
"Judging by your avatar, could you tell me what percentage of the gay community is atheistic."

But that's just if you wanted to be a troll too.

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by uruk
Beanbag, If you wanted to be humorus too, You could say to him:
"Judging by your avatar, could you tell me what percentage of the gay community is atheistic."

But that's just if you wanted to be a troll too.

Don't worry. I'm taking American's comments with the "proper" amount of seriousness.

And so what if his avatar looks like The Flash waiting for the end of the spin-dry cycle at the local laundromat? It takes all kinds to build a forum community.

Unfortunately, we get all kinds :D .

Regards;
Beanbag

[insomneac]

Originally posted by uruk
I don't know if this counts (because I'm half hispanic) but I'm as athiestic as an agnostic can get. But I haven't attended any athiest meetings. I don't even know if there are any athiest organizations down here in south Texas.
Maybe I should start one.

I'm an Hispanic atheist but have never attended any atheist/agnostic/skeptic meetings. Like uruk I live in the "Valley", less than five miles from the Mexican border. If there are any such organizations around here, they need a bigger advertising budget.

[phildonnia]

For some reason, when I try to imagine "black atheist", this image pops into my head:

http://www.theonion.com/images/static/wdyt_photo2_75x97.jpg

Historically, blacks in America have lived in poverty, and I suppose there's a connection between poverty and religion.

[wollery]

Originally posted by American
88% chance that a person selected at random will be white. Assuming we don't deplete the population as we draw (we won't unless it's a tiny little town), .88^30 = 2.2% chance they will all be white.

Or, roughly 1 in 50 times will you have a meeting of 30 people and find only white people. Otherwise one must assume the selection process is either tied to race directly as a cause, or indirectly as a correlation. You're completely ignoring selection effects. Blacks and Hispanics tend to be more religious, or at least a higher percentage profess religiousness, so there will be a lower percentage of atheists amongst those demographics. You're not comparing the numbers for the whole population, just for atheists.
And of course, since there probably would be only one coloured person in a group of 30 they are likely to feel a bit out of place and may not return.

[American]

Originally posted by wollery
You're completely ignoring selection effects. Blacks and Hispanics tend to be more religious, or at least a higher percentage profess religiousness, so there will be a lower percentage of atheists amongst those demographics. You're not comparing the numbers for the whole population, just for atheists.
And of course, since there probably would be only one coloured person in a group of 30 they are likely to feel a bit out of place and may not return.

That's the most racist thing I've seen since Beanbag came out against black athiests!

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by wollery

And of course, since there probably would be only one coloured person in a group of 30 they are likely to feel a bit out of place and may not return.

Maybe I've been too conditioned in the other direction. When I see a group composed entirely of white people, I tend to get uncomfortable and wonder if I should return.

True story: I was the official campaign photographer for a Republican candidate for the House of Representatives many years ago. Never mind that he withdrew before the election -- his district was gerrymandered out from underneath him when they redrew the district lines a few months before the election so that he no longer lived in that district by a few blocks, so he did the honorable thing and withdrew. Anyhow, before all that, we all dropped in at a local Republican function, the candidate along with the campaign manager, director of PR, campaign treasurer, and myself. We walked into the country club where the bash was being held, and everything just sorta stopped. It took me a couple of seconds to realize that the PR director and treasurer were the ONLY non-white faces in the room. Not even a single hispanic.

Being the professional politicians they are, however, they recovered quickly after the initial shock, and got back to business. It was interesting to watch for the rest of the evening as each and every person made a point of coming over and introducing themselves to our two "interlopers" to find out if they were somebody special. No one EVER bothered to come by and see who I was. Of course, being festooned with cameras is kind of a giveaway that you're part of the help, and not of the guests.

I consider that moment to be one of the more important eye-opening experiences in my life, another one of those "innocence-lost" episodes when you find out that things might really be as bad as some people have said.

Regards;
Beanbag

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

I have a black soul. Does that count?

[roger]

No, that's your butt. Take a shower once in a while, would you?

[elliotfc]

I saw Garrison Keillor once, whitest event I've ever been to.

I think that there are five times as many whites as blacks, so theoretically it would be five times as hard to meet a black atheist than a white atheist. But that's insufficient. Given that everybody on this forum, as far as I know, is at least 50% white or asian, you've got to consider that white/asians don't hang out with blacks socially, and if so, wouldn't have "profound" conversations because of comfort reasons. Also lump in the fact that ALL gatherings are inherently segregated (anytime you attend any event you will NOT find a representative population in attendance).

Blacks, by and large, attend black events.

Having said all of the above, I would expect that, as a percentage, there are fewer black atheists within the black population than in whites. Religion is closely tied to their cultural identity, so they would be more loathe to dispose of it.

-Elliot

[insomneac]

According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS),

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

14% of American adults identify themselves as having "no religion." Of these, 7% -- 1% of all adults -- identify themselves as atheist/agnostic/humanist/secular.

The breakdown of the "no religion" (NR) group by ethnicity is 73% non-Hispanic white, 8% non-Hispanic black, 5% Asian, 11% Hispanic and 4% other. 11% of Texans are in the NR group. So, NR minorities are 3% and NR blacks are 1% of Texas population.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by insomneac
According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS),

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

14% of American adults identify themselves as having "no religion." Of these, 7% -- 1% of all adults -- identify themselves as atheist/agnostic/humanist/secular.

Thanks for the stats and the link.

Unfortunately it doesn't offer any sort of racial breakdown for the 7% of non-religious who are atheists. The racial breakdown it gives is for non-religious, but 93% of those people believe in some definition of God.

-Elliot

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by American
That's the most racist thing I've seen since Beanbag came out against black athiests!

Still buzzing around? Now, let's see... I think I left it here somewhere (rummages through desktop ).

Ah! Here it is!

Take that!

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by insomneac
According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS),

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

14% of American adults identify themselves as having "no religion." Of these, 7% -- 1% of all adults -- identify themselves as atheist/agnostic/humanist/secular.

The breakdown of the "no religion" (NR) group by ethnicity is 73% non-Hispanic white, 8% non-Hispanic black, 5% Asian, 11% Hispanic and 4% other. 11% of Texans are in the NR group. So, NR minorities are 3% and NR blacks are 1% of Texas population.

Hmm... that's actually pretty close to the gross population stats. I guess my assumptions for back of the envelope were decently close.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon
Hmm... that's actually pretty close to the gross population stats. I guess my assumptions for back of the envelope were decently close.

Just to say what I already said...

Those stat breakdowns do not breakdown atheism, but rather, it breaks down those people who follow no religion. And it is stated that 93% of those people are not atheists. The 7% atheist population is not broken down racially.

-Elliot

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by elliotfc
Just to say what I already said...

Those stat breakdowns do not breakdown atheism, but rather, it breaks down those people who follow no religion. And it is stated that 93% of those people are not atheists. The 7% atheist population is not broken down racially.

-Elliot


Meh, for such rough numbers as I'm prone to use anyway, I'd be content to multiply the numbers for non-religious with some coefficient and call it good.