Summary of Long Distance QiGong Tests

[Shine Sun]

Dear all:

Up to now, I have done some Long Distance QiGong tests. It is time to give a summary.

Direction1: Disease Healing
Description: I tried to heal Nan's pains at his waist.
Result: Nan was healed up temporarily. Need further observation.
Description: I tried to heal Prof. Stephen Hawking's disability.
Result: I got pains on my knees, but no feedback until now.
Claiming to the Challenge: Yes. I will.

Direction2: Disease Transfer
Description: I tried to transfer the pains I got from Hawking to Carn and Kimpatsu.
Result: Failed. I am unable to do it under control.
Claiming to the Challenge: No.

Direction3: Qi Connection
Description: I tried to connect with Nan, Carn and Kimpatsu
Result: No obvious feeling
Claiming to the Challenge: No.

Direction4: Pseudonym Distinguishing
Description: No test.
Result: No
Claiming to the Challenge: TBD

Now, I am looking for several people to do the QiGong Disease Healing test who speak English and with chronic diseases, so that the demonstration can proceed fluently after JREF accepts my application. Now, it is possible to heal the diseases related to acantha and knees and arthritis by my Long Distance QiGong. It is my pleasure to do any kind of QiGong test with anyone at any time.

Thank you very much!

Shine Sun

[sf108]

ShineSun, can you please stop procrastinating and bullsitting and apply for the Challenge? Stop wasting forum space, and APPLY. Or is that word too scary.

[CFLarsen]

What's to apply for? So far, Shine Sun has done nothing. "Temporarily healed" a pain, but didn't make it go away? How can we know the pain wouldn't have temporarily have gone away?

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Dear all:

Up to now, I have done some Long Distance QiGong tests. It is time to give a summary.

Direction3: Qi Connection
Description: I tried to connect with Nan, Carn and Kimpatsu
Result: No obvious feeling
Claiming to the Challenge: No.

Shine Sun

I thought we still had 2 test to do.

And about healing, i never specified, if there is something to heal with me, as you also were trying to diagnose and that would have screwed it and you said you do not need to know what is wrong to heal, as it somehow happens automatic.

But i think i can admit, that i have 2 ailments, which i would be very happy about being healed. Both i have since years, so little risk of natural healing, though with one, there is a very small chance for natural healing, but a succesful healing would still count a lot.
For the other one healing would be plain obvious paranormal, just as Hawking standing up, though i would not get as much press notice.


Carn

Added: Both ailments didn't get any better or worse due to your tests so far.

[Kimpatsu]

Shine (out of your a**e) certainly failed with me, now, didn't he?

[Shine Sun]

Carn:
I thought we still had 2 test to do.
It is 3 tests. I tried to do it with you recently. But I could not, I felt very tired recently. Maybe I need to have a rest. I am not restored completely from the injury I got from Hawking. No pain, no difficulty to walk, but I still feel some cold and tickling around my knees.
And about healing, i never specified, if there is something to heal with me, as you also were trying to diagnose and that would have screwed it and you said you do not need to know what is wrong to heal, as it somehow happens automatic.
Yes, even if I do not know what is wrong to heal, I am still able to find it finally, but need more time. If all paths are through, energy always goes to the lowest place. I am unable to change the direction energy goes, but I can affect which path will be opened quicker. That is dialectical materialism.
But i think i can admit, that i have 2 ailments, which i would be very happy about being healed. Both i have since years, so little risk of natural healing, though with one, there is a very small chance for natural healing, but a succesful healing would still count a lot.
I am confident to do it, and I would like to heal them. Do you agree I want to cancel time limit? If it was demonstrated that I healed your ailments at some level, I will apply for the challenge. I want to use it as one evidence. Don't you mind?
For the other one healing would be plain obvious paranormal, just as Hawking standing up, though i would not get as much press notice.
I will go on to do it. I believe I will receive the feedback from Prof. Stephen Hawking sooner or later.
Added: Both ailments didn't get any better or worse due to your tests so far.
That is why my Chinese name is "seven smile". I do seven times of healing, then disease will be healed at some level, then patient will smile.

You selected figure 2. Now, Nan has given out his forcast about you as follows (maybe a bad translation, I attached the Chinese, if someone knows Chinese, maybe can give a precise translation, please forgive me if any unpolite for my bad English):
Gentleman; face color: yellow with blue or white without blood; face shape: square or circular; a little fat, tallness: 170cm around; Face looks fierce; less hair; less hair at eyebrow; not big eyes, white part of eye is larger; weak listening ability; Profession: related to lawyer or driver. Recently, you should have bad things. Maybe any unprecise, I am sorry.

他应该为男性，肤色黄ä¸_é€�é�’ï¼Œè¿˜æœ‰ä¸ €ç§�å�¯èƒ½ï¼Œä»–的肤色较白有些è‹�ç™½ï¼Œç›¸è ²Œä¸ºåœ†æ–¹è„¸,体æ€�å��胖，个头ä¸�高约在17 0cmå·¦å�³ï¼Œç›¸è²Œçœ‹ç�€ç»™äººçš„感觉较凶，å� ‘少眉稀眼ä¸�大白眼ç�_较多，å�¬åŠ›è¾ƒå¼±ã €‚è�Œä¸šåº”与律师或者å�¸æœºç±»æœ‰å…³ã€‚近期 有æ„�苦之相。ä¸�知这次对ä¸�对。ä¸�å¥½æ„ �æ€�。

I think Nan's forcast is correct in some ways. I detected the bad feeling at your lumbar. So it is reasonable that you are "white without blood; less hair; weak listening ability".
==============================================
To the other people:

Please give me some time.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
That is why my Chinese name is "seven smile". I do seven times of healing, then disease will be healed at some level, then patient will smile.
If you could heal serious disease, the patient would be ecstatic.
But, WTF do you mean "at some level"?

[KRAMER]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
To the other people:Please give me some time.

Would 100 years be enough?

We'll hold your application open until then, should you ever deign to APPLY.

[Shine Sun]

Carn:
I have done the 5th test at 20:00 to 20:40, Dec 22, 2004. I got pains on my waist again from you. Now, I know what disease you have, it is Prostatitis or the like. Is it correct?

Kimpatsu:
If you could heal serious disease, the patient would be ecstatic.But, WTF do you mean "at some level"?
The first ecstatic is Nan. The second will be Carn. "At some level", means I can not guarantee I can heal up a certain disease completely. Because it is difficult to measure the healing.

KRAMER:

Would 100 years be enough?
No need of 100 years. Quickly Carn will give a good news.
We'll hold your application open until then, should you ever deign to APPLY.
Thank you very much!
To be responsible, I want to demonstrate it by myself firstly.
If you are interested, I hope to do some tests with you, even Mr. James Randi.

Shine Sun

[KRAMER]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
To be responsible, I want to demonstrate it by myself firstly.
If you are interested, I hope to do some tests with you, even Mr. James Randi. - Shine Sun

No. We are NOT interested.

Neither myself, Randi nor anyone here at JREF will act as anything but observers.

But, as you will never submit to a proper test, this is all moot.

MOOT; of little or no pratical value or meaning.

[Kimpatsu]

...And I'm still waiting...

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Carn:
I have done the 5th test at 20:00 to 20:40, Dec 22, 2004. I got pains on my waist again from you. Now, I know what disease you have, it is Prostatitis or the like. Is it correct?

Shine Sun

No.

Did you ever detect diseases, that had nothing to do with a pain in the waist?

Carn

[MRC_Hans]

Probably an euphemism for pain in the ass.

Hans

[KRAMER]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Now, I know what disease you have, it is Prostatitis or the like. Is it correct?

Nice guess.

I think if I keep reading this thread I'm the one who'll get prostatistis.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by KRAMER
Nice guess.

I think if I keep reading this thread I'm the one who'll get prostatistis.
Well, I'm still waiting...

[Shine Sun]

Dear all:
Happy new year!
Are you alright? A terrible tsunami! But all are for 2004, wish 2005 will have a good beginning! In China, everywhere are working for "pass round the hat". I also shall pass my round to the people injured in the tsunami.
These days, I tried to heal up the disease on my knees. I found the relationship between the pain on my knees and waist. That is to say, the pain on my waist was resulted in by the pain on my knees. It is not resulted in by Carn. I am sorry I made a mistake. To avoid mistake, I shall try to heal up the disease on my knees firstly. After that, I shall do other QiGong tests.
Also wish other people can demonstrate other paranormal ability in 2005!

Thank you for your attention!

KRAMER
MOOT
Noted.

Carn:
As for the prostatitis, it is a guess indeed. Truly, I meant the position of the disease if it exists, it is in belly approximately.

Could you give any comment on Nan's forecast?

Shine Sun

[Kimpatsu]

Shine, I'm STILL waiting... :rolleyes:

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun

Gentleman; face color: yellow with blue or white without blood; face shape: square or circular; a little fat, tallness: 170cm around; Face looks fierce; less hair; less hair at eyebrow; not big eyes, white part of eye is larger; weak listening ability; Profession: related to lawyer or driver. Recently, you should have bad things. Maybe any unprecise, I am sorry.



Description does not fit me mostly and those things that do fit, have just a too big chance to be just luck.
Therefore i would call this a miss.

Carn

[Shine Sun]

Carn:
I did the 6th test from 20:00 to 21:30 on Jan 8, 2005 (Beijing time).
This time, I am confident that one of the 2 diseases you got is a disease related to testicle. That is to say, you are a man. Is it correct?

Shine Sun

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Carn:
I did the 6th test from 20:00 to 21:30 on Jan 8, 2005 (Beijing time).
This time, I am confident that one of the 2 diseases you got is a disease related to testicle. That is to say, you are a man. Is it correct?

Shine Sun
What exactly are you guessing, Sunshinesoutofyourarse? That he has a testicular disease, or that he's a man? Even if you don't know his sex, you've got a 50% chance of being right.
:rolleyes:

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Carn:
I did the 6th test from 20:00 to 21:30 on Jan 8, 2005 (Beijing time).

No special feeling at that time, though i did not pay any attention.
Originally posted by Shine Sun

This time, I am confident that one of the 2 diseases you got is a disease related to testicle.

No.
Originally posted by Shine Sun

That is to say, you are a man. Is it correct?

Shine Sun

Wouldn't answering this spoil it for Nan?

Ok, very little chance a women hangs around on such a perverse internet forum feeding a nasty desire to scratch some faces :D .

Yes, so if you think you detect i'm pregnant, you screwed something.

Carn

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Welcome back Sun Shine!!! Although, I much prefer your sister - Moon Shine.

[Shine Sun]

Carn:

Just as you ever said, Nan's waist pain came back. He said:"my waist is still not good, now the time is shortened I can lie in bed and sometimes I feel very painful lying in bed. I don't know if you can feel the improvement of my liver. 我的腰部还是ä¸�è¡Œï¼ŒçŽ°åœ¨èººåœ¨åºŠä¸Šçš„æ— ¶é—´æœ‰æ‰€ç¼©çŸ_è€Œä¸”æœ‰æ—¶æ„Ÿåˆ°èººåœ¨åºŠä¸Šç–¼ç —›éš¾å¿�，ä¸�知ä½_能ä¸�能感知一下我的è‚� 部是å�¦æœ‰æ‰€å¥½è½¬ã€‚"
No option, I healed it again as following description:
" It is impossible healing it up by only one time healing. If so, I should be Jesus! Today, Jan 11th,2005 20:00 to 22:00, I did the QiGong healing again. At the beginning, I opened your left YinWei Mai (YinWei is the name of the Mai, Mai is the pipe inside human body in which Qi moves.), from left eye to left temple to left foot. I estimate it will give some help to your high blood pressure. After that, shifted to your waist, a lot of heat flowed to my waist, estimate you will get greater improvement.
About feeling your liver, I am not sure. ä¸�å�¯èƒ½ä¸€æ¬¡å°±æ²»å¥½,如果那æ_·æˆ‘å°±æ˜¯è€¶ç ¨£äº†. 今天,2005å¹´1月11æ—¥20:00至22:00,我å�ˆç»™ä½_å �‘了一次功. 开始时打通了ä½_的左边阴维脉,ä»Žå·¦çœ¼å ˆ°å·¦å¤ªé˜³ç©´åˆ°å·¦è„š. 我估计对ä½_的高血压会有所帮助. 之å�Žå�ˆè½¬åˆ°è…°éƒ¨,大é‡�çš„çƒ_æµ�åˆ°æˆ‘çš„è…°é ƒ¨,估计这次ä½_将会有较大改善.

"ä¸�知ä½_能ä¸�能感知一下我的è‚�部是å�¦æœ ‰æ‰€å¥½è½¬ã€‚"

我也ä¸�敢说,物质决定æ„�识,气也ä¸�å�¬æˆ‘ çš„. 但从ä¸_医ç�†è®ºå�¯çŸ¥,若腰好了,ä½_çš„è‚�会 有好转."
A week later, 01/18/2005, Nan fed back as follows:
"My waist became much better, thank you. This time, could you see my liver?
我的腰最近是好多了，谢谢ä½_。怎麼æ_ ·è¿™å›žèƒ½çœ‹åˆ°æˆ‘çš„è‚�部是å�¦å¥½äº›äº†å�§ï¼Ÿ"

Finally, I healed Nan's waist pain again.

Why couldn't you get improved?
Generally, the diseases are divided into 2 types by hot and cold. If the temperature of Qi is high, it belongs to type hot disease. If the temperature of Qi is low, it belongs to type cold. Type hot disease appears as painful, and type cold disease appears as powerless. Human body is more sensitive to pain, but less sensitive to no power. Nan felt painful on the waist, so it is obvious if the pain has been removed. If the disease you got belongs to type cold, it might be not obvious to feel improvement. Anyway, I will fulfill the 7th test and will go on until you feel improved unless you want to stop it.

Shine Sun

[Winterfrost]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Mai is the pipe inside human body in which Qi moves.

Generally, the diseases are divided into 2 types by hot and cold. If the temperature of Qi is high, it belongs to type hot disease. If the temperature of Qi is low, it belongs to type cold.[/B]

Eek! Why am I suddenly reminded of the water-main break on my block last week!

Does Qi have a melting/evaporation point? Given its spiritual nature, are those points affected by the "pressures" of everyday life? :p

[Kimpatsu]

Sunshinesoutofhisarse still hasn't transferred Stephen Hawking's pain to me... :p

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Carn:


Finally, I healed Nan's waist pain again.

But you should be able to heal him completely after enough tries?
Originally posted by Shine Sun

Why couldn't you get improved?
Generally, the diseases are divided into 2 types by hot and cold. If the temperature of Qi is high, it belongs to type hot disease. If the temperature of Qi is low, it belongs to type cold. Type hot disease appears as painful, and type cold disease appears as powerless. Human body is more sensitive to pain, but less sensitive to no power. Nan felt painful on the waist, so it is obvious if the pain has been removed. If the disease you got belongs to type cold, it might be not obvious to feel improvement. Anyway, I will fulfill the 7th test and will go on until you feel improved unless you want to stop it.

Shine Sun

I think i used the word ailment, as i think it has a broader meaning than disease, so maybe what i have does not fall into that hot/cold categories, if they apply solely to diseases.

And for one of my ailments i certainly will know the day when it is healed, for the other one i will know the minute or even the second.
For both things healing i could only miss if i'm asleep or very heavily drunken.

Carn

[Shine Sun]

Carn:
I did the 7th test from 21:25 to 22:00 (BeiJing Time) Jan 26,05. I felt the center of the Qi moved around the area of bladder. I did not detect any hot or cold Qi. In the 6th test, I detected cold Qi. I do not know what ailment you have got. That is all.
Now 7 tests were completed. Please give a comment, if convenient.
But you should be able to heal him completely after enough tries?
I think I can do it better than a doctor.
I think i used the word ailment, as i think it has a broader meaning than disease, so maybe what i have does not fall into that hot/cold categories, if they apply solely to diseases.
If it is only a slight not good, it should be difficult to be healed up. I ever said that the QiGong healing depends on the comparison of health. A slight ailment, that is to say, the difference of our health is small, so it is difficult to launch a great intensity. It is difficult to heal up a small ailment. If a man does not have any ailment, he/ she should be a buddha. It is difficult obviously to change a general man/ woman to a buddha. And Jesus also did not do this kind of thing. He only healed patients to a normal person.

Kimpatsu
Sunshinesoutofhisarse still hasn't transferred Stephen Hawking's pain to me...
I surrender. I think it is as same difficult as to change a general man to a buddha.

Shine Sun

[KRAMER]

Why are we engaging this person in what he/she clearly believes
is an acceptable test? This is counterproductive. By engaging this non-applicant in what he thinks is a test of his claim, we are...

Yeesh. I surrender, too.

This is NOT a test.

This is utter nonsense.

[Carn]

Originally posted by KRAMER
Why are we engaging this person in what he/she clearly believes
is an acceptable test? This is counterproductive. By engaging this non-applicant in what he thinks is a test of his claim, we are...

Yeesh. I surrender, too.

This is NOT a test.

This is utter nonsense.

It's not "we", it's mostly "me" afaik.

From this link http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46977:
Carn:
"As i cannot see how i could lose this way, except by acquiring a woo-woo belief, which could be cured by JREF Forum, feel free to heal me of every disease i have and you can heal.To make this test of any use you should try to heal diseases i know about.Do you need any information prior or during the healing?"

Shine Sun:
"Even if you have no disease, we also can communicate by this way. I hope you can get some good feelings at least. It is difficult to heal over a disease or to have someone get some feelings only by one time Long Distance Qi Connection (LDQC) test. Generally, I need 7 times."

He has asked for seven tries and thought he can cause feelings or heal diseases i have(later he added "identify disease or area of disease")
He had his seven tries and....

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
Carn:
I did the 7th test from 21:25 to 22:00 (BeiJing Time) Jan 26,05. I felt the center of the Qi moved around the area of bladder. I did not detect any hot or cold Qi. In the 6th test, I detected cold Qi. I do not know what ailment you have got. That is all.



Nothing again.
No feeling and the cold i have, was also not affected, its just getting better, as it always does after a few days.
The 2 ailments i mentioned to have were not effected as well.

Originally posted by Shine Sun

I think I can do it better than a doctor.


No, from what i know.
(What makes you think that?If you want to answer that question, please do not do so in the million dollar challenge forum)

Originally posted by Shine Sun

If it is only a slight not good, it should be difficult to be healed up. I ever said that the QiGong healing depends on the comparison of health. A slight ailment, that is to say, the difference of our health is small, so it is difficult to launch a great intensity. It is difficult to heal up a small ailment. If a man does not have any ailment, he/ she should be a buddha. It is difficult obviously to change a general man/ woman to a buddha. And Jesus also did not do this kind of thing. He only healed patients to a normal person.


The ailments i have are not slight. One is obvious even for non-medics after a few seconds(though they only can tell there is something) and the other is normally noticed after a few hours by non-medics.
I would report any doctor, who does not detect any of my ailments after a quick standard check up, to authorities, because of dramatic incompetence.
Both will hinder me in most activities, through the rest of my life. One might kill me directly or indirectly by side effects from medicines, i need because of it.
Both are nearly a guarantee, that i will live slightly shorter(months up to a few years), than others.
I would not call that slight ailments. If i had the choice between becoming a millionaire and getting rid of them, i would get rid of them, it would be far preferable.

Originally posted by Shine Sun

Now 7 tests were completed. Please give a comment, if convenient.



Causing feelings:
Were there any unsual or special feelings during the time of tests or in between, that were not obviously caused by something known?
No.

In case of rating on a scale from 0(nothing) to 10(paranormal ability certainly there), what is Sun Shine's score?
0

Diagnosing:
Did Shine Sun score any hits, when trying to diagnose diseases?
No.

Did Shine Sun make statements, that were at least close to hits?
Yes, "pain in lumbar" and "sometimes breathing problems"(has to be noted, that i made several statements indicating to Shine Sun, that he is on a good track here, failure to get a better description slightly lowers scores below further, as this made it easier, but Shine Sun still did not get a better description. These lower scores are in brackets).

Did Shine Sun make statements, that were clear misses?
Yes, all other statements about my health, especially:
"You are healthy."
Nobody i would meet in person, would use that description, as that description implies at least that i can do fine without taking medicines and visiting doctors every few months. That is not true.

In case of rating on a scale from 0(nothing correct) and 10(everything correct), while weighing the statements according to the importance for my health(statement "nose is bleeding" is pretty worthless, even if correct, when person has a heart attack):
2(1).

(So far ignored is the aspect, that Shine Sun would have gotten something right by chance, in a real test this would be taken care of by a placebo control group, i'm just now judging by my general knowledge how many hits where by chance.)

On a scale of 0(exactly as chance) to 6(1 in million, paranormal), with 3 as the score to beat 1 in 1000 times just by chance(normal prelimenary mark) and anything below 1.5-2 would be ignored by science(1 in 30-100 chance, therefore managable by luck), what is Shine Sun's score?
smaller than 0.25(0.15).

Does the overall result of the diagnosing of Shine Sun indicate in any way a paranormal ability?
No, diagnosing was well within chance.

(During the test i gave once a rating to Sun Shine, that was far higher. This was due to the near hit "sometimes breathing problems", which could have been a full hit, if Sun Shine had been able to define it more closely.)

Healing:
Where there any diseases or ailements present during the tests?
Yes, 2 (nearly) permanent ones, and 2 temporaries. Also general stress due to work(and wasting time with lot of useless posting) was present nearly during the full test.

Did Shine Sun heal any disease or ailment?
Definite no.

Did any disease or ailment develop during the test in a way, that was slightly different from normal, so that for these diseases might be affected in a small way by Shine Sun?
Definite no.

Was general condition and stress in any way different during or between test, than compared to normal situations?
No.


General conclusion:
Shine Sun did fail, he was unable to do, what he claimed.
Shine Sun does not have the paranormal powers he thinks or his teachers told him.

Further observations:
Shine Sun does unknowingly use cold reading techniques, e.g. "sometimes breathing problems", is so wide and open statement, that even i as a disbeliever felt a urge(and actually i fell to it), to say somthing like "you are getting close", which already would be cold reading. I expect, that as Shine Sun normally is dealing with people, who have some believe in his abilities, that most of any correct diagnosing he does is due to cold reading and the rest is due to luck.
Likely any healing, that seems to have occured is pure placebo effect, due to Shine Sun normally treating people, that want him to succeed, as placebo is easier if poeple believe in you.
Also Shine Sun does not seem to know what he can do and i fear that even, what he believes he can do, often changes, when things do not develop as he expects, due to being unlucky.

Tips for Shine Sun, what to do next:
Make yourself familiar with the idea, that QiGong does not exist and try to think in terms "if there is no QiGong, what would be different".
Understand "cold reading" and "placebo effect"!(anyone having good links, please?)
Read this article http://www.csicop.org/sb/9903/sima-nan.html and contact, the guy mentioned there, he formerly practiced QiGong himself and certainly can and wants to help you sort out if there is anything real in the QiGong you practice.

Write down in short terms(e.g. I can heal all diseases permanently and quickly.), what you think, what you can do with Qi.

Then think about why you think, you can do that. Write down the events or facts, that make you think you can do these things.
Check each event or effect, closely, whether it is not explainable without the existenance of Qi, however unlikely you might think this explanation is. Especially always consider "i see/read/remeber only, what i want to remeber"
and "i deluded myself" and "i have been fooled" and "i have been lyed too" and "i forgot/missed something in the description of the event/fact", however strange the idea seems to be.

If for anything, you think you can do, you do not find any event or fact, that supports this believe, then you can be certain, it is only imagined and not real, discard it.
If for some supporting events or facts, you do not find any explanation without Qi, or the other explanations are very unlikely, please explain that event(of course only one at a time), in this forum(though of course in a different section, KRAMER is angry enough, maybe "general paranormal"), i'm certain the sceptics here will help you find the missing explanations.

Discard any believe, that is based on events/facts, that can be explained otherwise.

If anything is left after that, then maybe there is something and very, very maybe it's worth to think about the JREF challenge again.

Hope that will help, best wishes to blow away all delusions, that might be there.

Carn

[Edited for spelling and small descciption errors.]

[Kimpatsu]

Sun Shine was supposed to transfer Stephen Hawking's motor neurone disease to me.
I went to the gym today and bechpressed 130 kg.
AFAIK, Hawking is still in his wheelchair...

[KRAMER]

Originally posted by Carn
It's not "we", it's mostly "me" afaik...
He had his seven tries and....

OK, I hear you, but what you are engaging in is NOT a test that would be even close to acceptable for the JREF Challenge, so you really shouldn't tell him advise him to reconsider applying, as I think you did. Or at least you should make him aware that what you and he are participating in is NOT a protocol that the JREF would accept.

Man, I really hope this isn't just a hoax. It's gone on for so long, and it's SO silly. I'm SO suspicious, and I have been from early on.

[Ashles]

Carn, I've got to respect your patience.

Now I see why this thread went on so long.

Well, it'll sure be interesting to hear Shine Sun's comments now. (and his excuses?)

[Shine Sun]

I have nothing to say. I need to research further by myself. I will come back after I have made great progress.

Thank you very much!

Goodbye!

Shine Sun

[Ashles]

Oh, no excuses, just a blind refusal to accept he is misguided.

It's sad really how much of this we see.

[Carn]

Originally posted by Shine Sun
I have nothing to say. I need to research further by myself. I will come back after I have made great progress.

Thank you very much!

Goodbye!

Shine Sun

I hope some of the advice i offered, will help you, especially contact some people who formerly practiced QiGong, but no longer believe it, the reasons why they quit could be off great help for you to understand yourself and the weaknesses and mistakes, which are in QiGong, even if there is some truth in it(which i seriously doubt).

Goodbye!

Carn

[Carn]

Originally posted by KRAMER
is NOT a protocol that the JREF would accept.


Wait, you seriously tell me, because judge, test person, negotiator and test creator are the same person and communicate extensively before and during test with applicant, a test would be not acceptable for JREF?

This displays a extreme closemindedness, to such an extent, that it seems to be only possible to pass, if one has a functioning paranormal ability.
How unfair and .... , mmh, quite sensible. :clap:

I'm aware that Shine Sun succeding my "test" would not have proven much, except, that it might be worth applying for him, so a proper test can be conducted.

But as, even with the big weaknesses, Shine Sun did not give me doubt in my conclusion(at the start i realy hoped for something, just a bit), that nothing paranomral was going on, i'm certain, that applying would be a waste of time for him and you.

Carn

[Ashles]

Hooray for Carn!

Although I was personally very negative about Shine Sun from the very beginnning I think Carn has illustrated something important about paranormal claims.

Sometims you have to take them seriously to shut them up.

Without Carn conducting this test then no doubt Shine Sun would have been hovering around on these boards for ages claiming his amazing abilities until someone actually took him up on it.

Carn did and he treated Shine Sun very calmly and with great patience throughout their discussion.

At the end Carn calmly explained the negative results.

This countered Shine Sun's claims far more effectively than any repeated doubts about Shine Sun that I could (and did) have made.

It was like a little microcosm of the JREF challenge.

The best way to really counter these claims is to test them.

But of course, how many of the claimants are actually prepared to be tested... ?

Fine work Carn. It may not have been a JREF sanctioned test (or even particularly scientific), but I feel it was true to the spirit of the Challenge.
A claim was made. That claim was tested.