How ???

[jambo372]

How would I be tested in the challenge if I claimed to be able to psychokinetically levitate, roll and slide objects and to have Kulagina like abilities ?

[thatguywhojuggles]

Simple: Eliminate any chance of cheating.

[Ashles]

How would I be tested in the challenge if I claimed to be able to psychokinetically levitate, roll and slide objects and to have Kulagina like abilities ?
It is indeed simple as thatguywhojuggles says. Tell us what you claim to be able to do and the JREF will set up a test to examine this claim.
Obviously they will eliminate any methods of potential cheating but that won't matter as you, of course, have an amazing ability.

Do you have another question jambo, or can we look forward to your imminent application?

[jambo372]

What would happen in the test ?
What exactly would I be required to do ?

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by jambo372
What would happen in the test ?
What exactly would I be required to do ?

What exactly do you do? The test would be designed from that.

[jambo372]

What is the exact test ?
Is it free ?

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by jambo372
What is the exact test ?
Is it free ?

What is it exactly that you do?

Example:

My psychic ability is that I can move a bowling ball 5 inches without touching it. I apply; Kramer and I discuss the particulars, i.e. how many inches do I have to move it, how many times do I have to move it--stuff like that. Someone in my area agrees to set up the test. A bowling ball is set on level ground and I go to work. I'm sure this is very simplified, but you get the idea.

I don't think it costs you money aside from getting the application notarized.

BTW--this is not my psychic ability. My actual psychic ability is making tacos disappear...

[jambo372]

Or psychokinetically killing an undeveloped test tube baby ?

[Lisa Simpson]

That might be more difficult.

First, one would have to get ahold of a test tube baby. Then you would have to have some standard of life in order to "kill" it.

[jambo372]

I think a bowling ball would be too heavy. My power is very weak and slow and needs much work.

[Lisa Simpson]

Baseball?

Golf ball?

Ping pong balls are too light and too easily moved by air currents, I would think.

[Zep]

Originally posted by jambo372
I think a bowling ball would be too heavy. My power is very weak and slow and needs much work. Then how about moving something smaller about. That should be somewhat easier. Like some molecules, or a few atoms. Or some electrons perhaps. They're all fairly small and should need very little power to shift them.



Hey, wait a sec! I just did that typing this in!

HEY EVERYONE! I'M PSYCHOKINETIC!

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by Zep
Then how about moving something smaller about. That should be somewhat easier. Like some molecules, or a few atoms. Or some electrons perhaps. They're all fairly small and should need very little power to shift them.



Hey, wait a sec! I just did that typing this in!

HEY EVERYONE! I'M PSYCHOKINETIC!

Did you use your mind to type it in--or your fingers? One is psychokinetic and the other isn't.

My disappearing tacos are more interesting, anyway.

[roger]

Originally posted by jambo372
I think a bowling ball would be too heavy. My power is very weak and slow and needs much work. Well, you have a slew of people on this board ready and eager to help anyone write up an application that is likely to be accepted by JREF, myself included.

So, tell us exactly what you can do - how do you know that you have this power? We'd be happy to take this information and help you write up an application. The exact nature of the test will be decided by Kramer, Randi, and you, so obviously we cannot tell you what the exact test will be like. But we can give you a good idea. It costs nothing to apply besides the notary, so please share your information with us. Let's get this process started!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by jambo372
What would happen in the test ?

Your testicles will be hooked up to a car battery.

Originally posted by jambo372

What exactly would I be required to do ?

Scream.

[T'ai Chi]

For those who claim to be able to move pingpong balls by psychokinesis, or whatever...


If the ball is represented by 0, and is resting on a table, where you are positioned at point X,

_____N
W___0___E
_____S
_____X


could you move the ball in the directions North, South, East, and West?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Did you use your mind to type it in--or your fingers? One is psychokinetic and the other isn't.

My disappearing tacos are more interesting, anyway. My mind. I used my mind. Yeah, that's it...

Pass the tacos, please.

[Zep]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
You're testicles will be hooked up to a car battery.

Scream. This also gets the wax out of your ears.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by jambo372
How would I be tested in the challenge if I claimed to be able to psychokinetically levitate, roll and slide objects and to have Kulagina like abilities ? No problem. Levitate, roll or slide the object with no possible interference.

Originally posted by jambo372
I think a bowling ball would be too heavy. My power is very weak and slow and needs much work. Problem. Because the effect of levitating, rolling, and/or sliding could be contibuted to natural causes, controls must be put in place in the test to absolutely eliminate these possible natural causes. The protocol becomes much more complex with claims of "very weak" powers because it becomes very much more complex to differentiate such powers from natual occurances. This starts to go down the road of comparissons between control data versus experimental data and statistical differntials (Flame Thrower challenger type stuff). A simple challenge would be to cause a tisssue to move from side to side in a sealed glass box. If you can't even do that, then it would be hard to introduce an acceptable protocol to prove paranormal ability.

[Carn]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Baseball?

Golf ball?

Ping pong balls are too light and too easily moved by air currents, I would think.

I do not see any problem with ping pong balls, just put a transparent (so you do not need cameras to witness the event) container over the ping pong ball and do not do the test near any heavy traffic area. That would even work for less denser objects(e.g. feather), if the starting point and the area the object is supposed to be moved to are 10cm+ apart and passing criteria is to do it several times.

If you claim to be able to move low density objects only very small distance, then you cannot avoid to create a vacuum and put the container on something that keep vibrations from the container.
But even this setup should be no problem to organize with the help of any physic department of a university.

As there are limits to the quality of the vacuum and the quality of that vibration shielding stuff(especially financial ones) JREF will have problems to accept a claim of telecinatically moving bacterias or viruses.

If you claim to be able to move only atoms, electrons, etc. over small distances, forget it, that might be even beyond high funded scientist groups to detect.

But i'm quite certain that a claim of telecinetic moving of objects, that are visible to unaided human eyes and weigh more than 1gramm, would not be rejected by JREF due to not being testible(assuming there are no complicated ridiculous conditions in, e.g. only in a dark room, only during a thunderstorm, alone in the room,...)

Carn

[CFLarsen]

Suggestions:

Seal the ping pong ball in a glass container. Crazy Glue, baby.

Nobody gets near the container while the test is in progress. Nobody.

Use one of those thingamabobs that seismographs are standing on, to prevent shaking/rattling/pushing/moving/whatever.

Use a seismograph-type tool to detect if the glass container has moved/shaked/rattled/whatever.

Determine when the test starts and when it is finished. This is done before the test starts!

Film everything, with sound, from people enter the room till people leave. Several cameras.

Measure temperature, humidity, air density inside the glass container.

Use new pingpong balls.

Place them on a very small indent, to make sure that the ping pong ball doesn't change shape e.g. due to temperature
shifts etc., causing it to roll on its own.

Accept no excuses for failure.

[Orangutan]

Hi.

I have noticed that the first thing Kramer does is try to make sure you know you are not deluding yourself.

If you claim you can move a ping pong ball here is a test you can do.

place 3 ping pong balls close together on a stable flat surface and cover them with a transparent container. Big glass bowl or something, like that.

Now pick a ball at random. Roll a die if you have to. now Give yourself a time limit, I don't know about your power but lets say 5 mins and make that ball and only that ball move (again a pre set ammount say 1cm) in one direction within that time. Now make it move back. If the other balls move then something is messing with youe experiment and you abort that attempt and start again.

Repete until you can do it every time you want to.

This should help you eliminate uneven surfaces. Air currents and vibrations that may be fooling you into thinking you have this power.

The preliminary test will have much stricter protocols this home experiment is only to rule out self delusion.

If you can video tape your experiments we would all love too see too.

This kind of protocol will scale down too even if it's 3 grains of sand and you are moving one 1mm in 10 mins. But if it's that small a distance be aware that your eyes will play tricks on you if you stare at something for more than about 15 seconds.

O.

[Ashles]

I think Jambo is just exciting himself by pretending that he has some form of paranormal ability.

He claims at some point to have experienced just about every paranormal claim ever so it is almost inevitable that he'd start to ask about how you go about applying.

Jambo can you do anything paranormal, yes or no?

If 'yes'- tell us what you can do and the test is subsequently created after that information is given.
We can't speak for the JREF but we could suggest possible experiments for you to test yourself and perhaps put you in contact with a Skeptic society near you for some further testing.
(Although from what you have told us about your local area I think we'd be lucky to find a sceptical organisation within 800 miles...)

If 'no' - then stop being silly and pretending to have exciting superpowers when you don't.


By the way, the word you are looking for starts with the letter 'N'.

[jambo372]

I was asking a medium about tests on psychic abilities. She said she'd never participated in one herself but that a friend of hers is currently undergoing testing at some nearby parapsychology place if I was interested. Anything I have done has only had a slight effect, taken ages and given a less than 10 % success rate so I've decided I'm probably not good enough for the testing facility she described. I might try and get in touch with them later if I can manage a significant improvement.

[kedo1981]

Come on Hambone even a little testable power will win you the MILLION don't be hung up on the %

[Ashles]

I was asking a medium about tests on psychic abilities. She said she'd never participated in one herself but that a friend of hers is currently undergoing testing at some nearby parapsychology place if I was interested. Anything I have done has only had a slight effect, taken ages and given a less than 10 % success rate so I've decided I'm probably not good enough for the testing facility she described. I might try and get in touch with them later if I can manage a significant improvement.
That's odd. Previously you claimed you had moved a pen once.
Here is where you said this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870633896&highlight=once+managed#post1870633896)
that's hardly a 10% success rate.

Also, if you can make something move psychokinetically one time in ten you'll still get the million.

But, of course, you can't really. It just excites you to pretend to have these powers.

You are an admitted liar and fraud jambo and your attention seeking claims are a little tedious.

If you could do any of the things you claim then you would already have applied. But you can't and you won't.
And nor will any of the 'amazing' people you know.

[jambo372]

Moving something once is a less than 10 % success rate.
I think this would be the minimum success rate you should acquire before submitting to any tests.

But I must admit I'm terrible that way. Not fulfilling the wishes of sceptics.

[Ashles]

Moving something once is a less than 10 % success rate.
:dl:

Oh my (wipes tears of mirth away)

Yes jambo, you might need to up your success rate to slightly higher than "I think it happened once" in order to approach the challenge.

And don't worry, just being yourself and saying the things you do fulfills the wishes of most sceptics.
It reminds us what the alternative is like.

[jambo372]

Well I could never be a sceptic ... not even if I wanted to be.

[TheBoyPaj]

Why? Do you lack the objectivity?

[IXP]

Originally posted by jambo372
Well I could never be a sceptic ... not even if I wanted to be.

I'll second that!

[roger]

Originally posted by Orangutan
place 3 ping pong balls close together on a stable flat surface and cover them with a transparent container. Big glass bowl or something, like that. Orangutan, this is a good test in and of itself, and along the lines of things that Randi suggests, but it has a tragic flaw.

The reason for the test is that if there is a physical outside influence (moving air currents, etc), than it will almost certainly influence all the balls. However, in my opinion this test is flawed if the claimant doesn't have exquisite control over the force. (the following assumes that the power is real) For example, the claimant may be moving objects by creating a mini vortex in the air with their mind, and have no control over the object itself. Or it may be some kind of broad "shoving" force (excuse the technical terms :)) that can't be focused down to a single ping pong ball. Etc.

I think it's a great preliminary test if it fits what the claimant claims, but too often I get the feeling that this sort of thing is a matter of moving the goalposts, and a claimant has the right to reject this as a fair test. Of course, if they do reject it, then the test protocol becomes MUCH more complicated, as we found while trying to design a test for Beth Clarkson (who is unsure whether she is able to influence the movement of a candle flame).

[Orangutan]

Originally posted by roger
However, in my opinion this test is flawed if the claimant doesn't have exquisite control over the force. (the following assumes that the power is real)

I Absolutly agree, and I wouldn't even suggest that this is close to what would be needed for a preliminary test. You're right if the claim is to be able to produce some force then you are going to have to come up with some new criteria. Unfortunaly Jambo won't be specific on what he claims he can do so I had to generalise.

The only reason for doing a test like on your own is to assure yourself that you're not deluded about the powers you belive you have before proceeding.

O.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by jambo372
Well I could never be a sceptic ... not even if I wanted to be.

Wrong! You were very sceptical of the Internet Inkblot Psycho Test. Even in a joke test, you managed to get one wrong -- Prince Charles for President Bush. Do they really look alike to you, or is it the hole in your eye?

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50608&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

[Ashles]

HE HAS NO HOLES IN HIS EYES!

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Ashles
HE HAS NO HOLES IN HIS EYES!

:D

[c4ts]

I say he has holes in his eyes.

Prove that he has no holes! You can't, therefore I must be right! And this very scientific looking analysis of his back comprised of random tachometer readings says that he has holes in his eyes! And now that he's dead, you can't duplicate the results so HA!

[Ashles]

Actually he must have holes in his eyes otherwise he couldn't see out.