Doesn't the ancient Greek Dodecatheon make much more sense ?

[El Greco]

...than the omnibenevolent Christian God, that is ?

We had Gods with great powers but not omnipotent. And certainly not omnibenevolent. They liked to hate each other and also have fun with humans. They loved to disguise as humans or animals and rape beautiful women or kill their enemies. They could be weak and resentful and they were good to those who were bootlicking them. I keep thinking that if I was raised to believe in such Gods maybe I shouldn't have discovered atheism until much later. The inconsinstencies would be a lot fewer, don't you think ?

[Nyarlathotep]

I agree. I also think that it would make the motivation for worshipping such a diety much clearer and thus harder to question. You sacrificed a bull to Posiedon because you didn't want him sinking your ship, not for some vague promise of bliss in the after life.

Though, when I think about it, the times when one sacrificed a bull to Posiedon and one's ship sank anyway might lead one to question the existance of said entity. So the possibility of atheism would still be there.

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Though, when I think about it, the times when one sacrificed a bull to Posiedon and one's ship sank anyway might lead one to question the existance of said entity. So the possibility of atheism would still be there.

I think you'll find that people whose ships have sunk are not always in a position to question anything. :)

And if you happen to live, well, then it's obvious that Poseidon wasn't really out to get you...just make sure you do the sacrifice better next time!

Jeremy

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Though, when I think about it, the times when one sacrificed a bull to Posiedon and one's ship sank anyway might lead one to question the existance of said entity.

Of course, but there's still easier to excuse ol' Poseidon: He might had wanted two bulls, or he could be just following Zeus's instructions or simply being busy raping a mortal while Aeolus was playing with his Winds :D

[Iacchus]

Just more anthropomorphized. Not any less real though. In fact we have the Greek pantheon to thank for many of our psychological archetypes.

[Ladewig]

Yep.

With your Greek Panthenon, you can always say that the ship was sunk accidentally while one of the gods was targeting a nearby ship for destruction. You can't say things like that with an omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient divinity.

Also, that whole Pandora's Box thing makes evil a lot easier to explain.


The more I think about it the more I like it. Of course, the down side is that up to now, when I filled out census forms, the only difficulty was whether to report my religion as Jedi Knight or Darwinist. Now, I have a third option to consider.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Ladewig
Yep.

With your Greek Panthenon, you can always say that the ship was sunk accidentally while one of the gods was targeting a nearby ship for destruction. You can't say things like that with an omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient divinity.


I think that's the core of it. Ig you say a being is merely really, really powerful and still prone to human weakness it gives you an 'out' for any perceived shortcomings by that being. That 'out' just doesn't exist for a being that is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by El Greco
...than the omnibenevolent Christian God, that is ?

We had Gods with great powers but not omnipotent. And certainly not omnibenevolent. They liked to hate each other and also have fun with humans. They loved to disguise as humans or animals and rape beautiful women or kill their enemies. They could be weak and resentful and they were good to those who were bootlicking them. I keep thinking that if I was raised to believe in such Gods maybe I shouldn't have discovered atheism until much later. The inconsinstencies would be a lot fewer, don't you think ?

Really? Because I never could make heads or tails of Timeus.

My mistake, I thought you were talking about the Greek "dodechahedron."

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I agree. I also think that it would make the motivation for worshipping such a diety much clearer and thus harder to question. You sacrificed a bull to Posiedon because you didn't want him sinking your ship, not for some vague promise of bliss in the after life.

Though, when I think about it, the times when one sacrificed a bull to Posiedon and one's ship sank anyway might lead one to question the existance of said entity. So the possibility of atheism would still be there.

And in any event, if the God(s) are not omnipotent, it's only a matter of time before they are captures in a Ghostbusters-style containment unit.

Actually, given there's no largest transfinite number, there's no largest God in principle, and a containment unit may be the ultimate destination for Yaweh.

[TragicMonkey]

Such gods might make life more explicable....but it was those gods' very lack of omniscience and omnipotence that gave rise to atheism. The philosophers couldn't accept such childish gods, and concluded that mankind had invented them precisely because the gods were depicted doing the sorts of things man would do if he could. Which makes such gods unworthy to be gods.

It was easier to turn atheist, or start inventing abstract gods of Idea than to accept that gods existed, but behaved like the cast of The Real World.

[Piscivore]

Yes, except the ancients had the wrong one in charge.













Hail Eris!

[Ladewig]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
It was easier to turn atheist, or start inventing abstract gods of Idea than to accept that gods existed, but behaved like the cast of The Real World.

or worse, like the cast of The Surreal Life. [shudder]

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Ladewig
or worse, like the cast of The Surreal Life. [shudder]

I kind of liked the interaction between Charo and Flava Flav. Neither could understand a single word the other spoke. That always makes for interesting relationships.

[Gestahl]

Originally posted by El Greco
...than the omnibenevolent Christian God, that is ?

We had Gods with great powers but not omnipotent. And certainly not omnibenevolent. They liked to hate each other and also have fun with humans. They loved to disguise as humans or animals and rape beautiful women or kill their enemies. They could be weak and resentful and they were good to those who were bootlicking them. I keep thinking that if I was raised to believe in such Gods maybe I shouldn't have discovered atheism until much later. The inconsinstencies would be a lot fewer, don't you think ?

Depends on what you want the goal of the religion to be. If you wish to use it as a tool for societal control, having gods unworthy of respect, being unpredictable, and being numerous is far too complicated... much easier to say he is all good, all-powerful, etc. Plus, several mortals outwitted the gods... doesn't have that fear aspect.