British Court Terrorizes Law Abiding Citizen (Worse Than Al-Qaeda Would, Probably)

[Jedi Knight]

A British court, clearly fascist and anti-freedom, has kept a harmless elderly man in jail because he is a threat to burglars (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5757).

So the guy who shot two home-invaders in the middle of the night is kept in jail because he defended his property from criminal terrorists who selected him because he was an old man who lived alone and now the British court won't release him?

...and yet the folks who attacked and criminally terrorized the old man were released in 2001.

All disarmed law-abiding Brits should pay attention to this case. The law-abiding British citizen doesn't mean jack to the British government anymore. Brits are criminal-fodder (the new type of cannon fodder) and criminal terrorists have just been given the green light to rob the elderly at will because then the British terrorist courts will put the elderly in jail instead of the criminal!

British cowards! How could you possibly allow this happen?

Since the rest of Europe is ten times more afraid of the ideals and heroism the old man who the corrupt British court incarcerated for defending his property possesses, no wonder Europe is weak in the knees in the war on terrorism and cowardly in response to Saddam.

The only folks Europe declares war on is the law-abiding--especially the elderly.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

I think it is time for Amnesty International to step in and rescue this elderly man from British government terrorism. This is the type of thing that is supposed to happen in 4th world countries, not Britain. I wonder if some corrupt British government communist-socialist wants the elderly guy in jail so he can die there and then his property can then be stolen.

Yep, sounds like an Amnesty International case to me. Anyone know if the guy who defended his property and is now in prison for exercising his right to be alive is Jewish? That would also feed into what is currently happening in Europe too.

JK

[iain]

I believe there has been a lot of controversy about this case in the UK over the last couple of years.

The way British law works is that it is very difficult to get time off your prison sentence if you refuse to admit your guilt for a crime of which you have been found guilty.

This is why Tony Martin has not been released on parole : he maintains that he did nothing wrong and the law disagrees.

[Jon_in_london]

JK, most people think its disgusting that the guy is kept in jail. I for one think that if someone enters your home illegally you should have the right to kill that person. After all, how do you know his/her intentions? should I wait to be killed or see my wife/children raped and murdered before I slot the cnut? I dont think so.

A while backa guy was locked up for 5 years because he stabbed a burglar to death.

Anyone breaks into my house is going to get killed. I'd rather do 5 years for manslaughter than get murdered or see my femfolk raped. SO THERE!

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by iain
I believe there has been a lot of controversy about this case in the UK over the last couple of years.

The way British law works is that it is very difficult to get time off your prison sentence if you refuse to admit your guilt for a crime of which you have been found guilty.

This is why Tony Martin has not been released on parole : he maintains that he did nothing wrong and the law disagrees.

That isn't law. What crime did the old guy not "admit" to--that the Britainazi courts want him to? Seriously, what did the guy do wrong? When he was safely tucked into his bed the night his home was invaded (old people need sleep and like safety), how can defending his home turn into a crime?

It is sick and shameful, that is what it is. All brits should be ashamed because of this and I am calling you all cowards for even allowing that old man to be forced to go to jail. Only a cowardly commie sends old harmless men to jail.

But the commies had plans for him. "Let's send his old ass to jail for defending his home", the Brit commies say. "That will teach him." (communist reeducation center for the elderly who think they are still free in Britain.)

JK

[davidhorman]

In all honesty I want to find something truly irrational in JK's post - all this talk of British Government Terrorism, pshaw!

...and yet the folks who attacked and criminally terrorized the old man were released in 2001.

Well, one of them's dead...

But it's blindingly obvious to me that this particular guy shouldn't be in jail. If you're going to break into someone's home anything that happens to you is your own damn fault.

That "thread to burglars" comment from the parole board makes me want to spit! :mad:

David

[Drooper]

In the UK, you may only use reasonable force, regardless of whether the person was trepassing or stealing or whatever.

In this particular case, the burglar was shot in the back. This made it very hard for the defence to argue that Martin feared for his life and the level of force used was justified.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I think it is time for Amnesty International to step in and rescue this elderly man from British government terrorism. This is the type of thing that is supposed to happen in 4th world countries, not Britain. I wonder if some corrupt British government communist-socialist wants the elderly guy in jail so he can die there and then his property can then be stolen.

Yep, sounds like an Amnesty International case to me. Anyone know if the guy who defended his property and is now in prison for exercising his right to be alive is Jewish? That would also feed into what is currently happening in Europe too.
JK

You are always good value for money JK!

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
JK, most people think its disgusting that the guy is kept in jail. I for one think that if someone enters your home illegally you should have the right to kill that person. After all, how do you know his/her intentions? should I wait to be killed or see my wife/children raped and murdered before I slot the cnut? I dont think so.

A while backa guy was locked up for 5 years because he stabbed a burglar to death.

Anyone breaks into my house is going to get killed. I'd rather do 5 years for manslaughter than get murdered or see my femfolk raped. SO THERE!

What you or I would do in theory doesn't matter. What matters is that there is a harmless old man in prison because of unjust, garbage-can communist law, and the mode of thinking people should be in now is thinking about ways to get him out of jail.

If you let a bunch of commie bullies have their way with old people and no one says anything about it, what good is thinking you have a right to defend your property while you are safe at home?

A population that refuses to defend its elderly is a spineless population.

JK

[Drooper]

Looking at it from the other side.

Does anybody else remeber the case of a young Brit staggering home drunk one night in the US (Florida??). He made the mistake of trying to go into the wrong house. The owner, instead of pausing to find out what was going on, opened the door and shot him dead on his doorstep.

The shooter was not charged (or maybe acquitted) because the poor sod was technically trespassing.

[LillyThePink]

Drooper is right - the law is concerned with "reasonable force" and considers that shooting someone in the back as they are running away, unarmed, is not reasonable force.

Not that I expect you to get that point at all. Your military doesn't appear to be able to differentiate between who to shoot and who not to shoot, so the finer points of this case are most likely a mystery to you.

[Shaun from Scotland]

There are so many factual errors in this childish rant (not to mention the link he posted) I have given up counting them....

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Drooper
In the UK, you may only use reasonable force, regardless of whether the person was trepassing or stealing or whatever.

In this particular case, the burglar was shot in the back. This made it very hard for the defence to argue that Martin feared for his life and the level of force used was justified.

See, this is the type of cowardly nonsense that keeps the old man in jail.

If someone forces their way into your home, your sovereign territory, you can gun them down and feed them to pit bulls--it is your home! It is your home.

Is some commie bureaucrat who lives in a guarded, gated community with 24/7 professional protection going to give a damn about you? Hell no. You have to make the courts responsive to you, not the criminal.

In the United States if some elderly person gets robbed and people see it happen, a mob of people descend upon the criminals and kick the **** out of them. If they have weapons the police gun them down in a flurry of bullets (or the citizens--depends who gets there first).

The point is that stealing from people, especially old people who don't have much as it is and can't earn like they could when they were young, is terrorism, and I think it is time for the terrorists to get the justice they deserve instead of the old people who are victims of crime.

The old man is not a criminal and committed no crime. He is probably a World War II hero and that is why they are terrorizing him. He is the last of the real British males.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Drooper is right - the law is concerned with "reasonable force" and considers that shooting someone in the back as they are running away, unarmed, is not reasonable force.

Not that I expect you to get that point at all. Your military doesn't appear to be able to differentiate between who to shoot and who not to shoot, so the finer points of this case are most likely a mystery to you.

If someone is invading your home in the middle of the night and you are an elderly citizen, do you honestly believe that you can judge "reasonable force"? Any force used against an old person is dangerous and life-threatening.

I salute that old man for gunning those criminal terrorist bastards down! He is a true citizen!

Now the cowards of British society can watch that hero stew in prison because they are too weak and spineless to do anything just.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

He is probably a World War II hero and that is why they are terrorizing him. He is the last of the real British males.

JK

55 year old WWII hero?.

LOL!

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Drooper is right - the law is concerned with "reasonable force" and considers that shooting someone in the back as they are running away, unarmed, is not reasonable force.


I dont think thats unreasonable. He shouldnt have been there in the first place. But then again, the law is an ass (arse even?)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
There are so many factual errors in this childish rant (not to mention the link he posted) I have given up counting them....

Another coward arrives. How could you allow them to lock up this harmless old man? When you get old, how much worse do you think you will be treated? As a spineless brit, do you even care?

JK

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Any force used against an old person is dangerous and life-threatening.


JK

Can you tell me what threat you would feel from a person who was actively running away from you?

Thanks

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Another coward arrives. How could you allow them to lock up this harmless old man? When you get old, how much worse do you think you will be treated?JK

Hardly harmless, JK. He did actually kill the burglar who was running away by shooting him in the back.

Just because you lot are all armed, locked and loaded doesn't make it right.

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Another coward arrives. How could you allow them to lock up this harmless old man? When you get old, how much worse do you think you will be treated? As a spineless brit, do you even care?

JK

Oh my God, I'm being called a coward by a juvenile basement dweller.

Internet hard man. Lowest of the low.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


Can you tell me what threat you would feel from a person who was actively running away from you?

Thanks

The threat that he might come back tomorrow night and kill me in my sleep and rape my wife and daughter?

Slot the cnuts! they wont be able to burgle anyone when they are deed!

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


55 year old WWII hero?.

LOL!

By God he is a hero, even if he didn't serve in World War II. He stood up for himself. He didn't give himself away to Saddam without a fight.

If only 50 British men stood up for that guy he wouldn't be in jail right now.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


By God he is a hero, even if he didn't serve in World War II. He stood up for himself. He didn't give himself away to Saddam without a fight.

If only 50 British men stood up for that guy he wouldn't be in jail right now.

JK

Are you taking medication?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


Hardly harmless, JK. He did actually kill the burglar who was running away by shooting him in the back.

Just because you lot are all armed, locked and loaded doesn't make it right.

Well Lilly, apparently you don't understand what really happened. The guy was alone in the dark with two criminal terrorists. He started shooting to save his own life because it was dark, there were two, possibly more criminal terrorists in his house, and the terrorists thought "Uh oh, he has a gun." and they started to try and find a way out.

The old man didn't see them in the dark trying to run away. Since that is the case, I wouldn't even care if the old man shot them point blank range in the back of the head with a 12 gauge shotgun.

They should not have been in his house in the middle of the night.

But no matter what you say Lilly, the old man is still in jail and it is shameful because cowardly Brits allowed it to happen.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Are you taking medication?

No, but the British males in Britain all need some type of masculine medication because the cowardice is getting really deep over there.

You guys let people bully your elderly. Cowards.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


No, but the British males in Britain all need some type of masculine medication because the cowardice is getting really deep over there.

You guys let people bully your elderly. Cowards.

JK

Maybe there is an emergency chemist open you can go to?

[Jedi Knight]

No wonder British males are so afraid of Saddam and his weaklings. It is easier to bully British elderly.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
No wonder British males are so afraid of Saddam and his weaklings. It is easier to bully British elderly.

JK

Remember what the therapist said. Try breathing deeply......

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Remember what the therapist said. Try breathing deeply......

The whole of Britain needs therapy. Europe is embraced with self-hating weakness and shameful cowardice.

Attack me for saying the truth, coward. Admit what I say is true. You are a typical leftist because you cower while I stand proudly. You make idiotic leftist comments like "have you had your medication", while at the same time you remain idle while your elderly and law-abiding are led away in shackles so they can be terrorized by the self-hating European state socialist system.

Attack the messenger--it is all you cowardly brits can do. Saddam and Al Qaeda send in liters of Ricin into your country and you are all ready to surrender. Cowards.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The whole of Britain needs therapy. Europe is embraced with self-hating weakness and shameful cowardice.

Attack me for saying the truth, coward. Admit what I say is true. You are a typical leftist because you cower while I stand proudly. You make idiotic leftist comments like "have you had your medication", while at the same time you remain idle while your elderly and law-abiding are led away in shackles so they can be terrorized by the self-hating European state socialist system.

Attack the messenger--it is all you cowardly brits can do. Saddam and Al Qaeda send in liters of Ricin into your country and you are all ready to surrender. Cowards.

JK

God, I can actually see you foaming at the mouth. Rather sad really.........

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The whole of Britain needs therapy. Europe is embraced with self-hating weakness and shameful cowardice.

Attack me for saying the truth, coward. Admit what I say is true. You are a typical leftist because you cower while I stand proudly. You make idiotic leftist comments like "have you had your medication", while at the same time you remain idle while your elderly and law-abiding are led away in shackles so they can be terrorized by the self-hating European state socialist system.

Attack the messenger--it is all you cowardly brits can do. Saddam and Al Qaeda send in liters of Ricin into your country and you are all ready to surrender. Cowards.

JK

Why were you kicked out of the army. they didn't phrase it that way, did they? you realised it was time to go? why was that?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


God, I can actually see you foaming at the mouth. Rather sad really.........

Hysterical when truth = foam. That could only come from self-hating Euro trash. Show some pride.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Maybe you could get the dosage doubled?

[LillyThePink]

Not debating the issue at hand makes one appear as pointless as JK, and as incapable of rebuttal and debate, which is nice if you're just into flaming, but not productive, or condusive to the further understanding of ideas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/718129.stm

JK - the man was known to have a history of offences with firearms; the firearm he used was illegal; he shot a 16year old in the back; he was of a vigilante mindset.

All of the above are reasons why I do not believe Tony Martin to be a helpless old man. And the fact remains that in order to be eligible for parole, you need to express remorse at your behaviour and be judged unlikely to reoffend. Given that Mr Martin refuses to do so, I fail to see how parole can be granted.

On another note, I find it utterly repellent and disgusting that one of the burglars is attempting to sue Mr Martin. Lets hope that the judge in that case sees some common sense.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Why were you kicked out of the army. they didn't phrase it that way, did they? you realised it was time to go? why was that?

I was never kicked out of any army. Where did you get that nonsense from? I served in the US Army and went to war a few times, but I am Honorably Discharged and a war hero--I was never "kicked out". I fulfilled my contract 110%. I did change careers. People do that everyday. Hundreds of millions of people do it everyday. You could learn a lot from a brilliant man like me.

Now, what does that have to do with European cowardice in dealing with Saddam and the shackling of the British elderly while cowardly british males stand there watching, cowering and quivering as it happens?

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Not debating the issue at hand makes one appear as pointless as JK, and as incapable of rebuttal and debate, which is nice if you're just into flaming, but not productive, or condusive to the further understanding of ideas.

[

What issue at hand? That we are communists, cowards and Saddam supporters?

This is not flaming. Someone who can think like this, IS in need of psychiatric help.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
Maybe you could get the dosage doubled?

Look at you lol. You know I am right. Deep down inside you know I am right. All you can do is attack me, but you know I am right. :D

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


What issue at hand? That we are communists, cowards and Saddam supporters?

This is not flaming. Someone who can think like this, IS in need of psychiatric help.

Really? Here is what I really think. I think that European femi-males shouldn't breed. Period.

JK

[LillyThePink]

That commies thing is just JK's way, hon ;)

JK - please explain the link between supporting this man's application for parole and wanting to bomb Sadaam.

Thanks

Edited to add:

Also, in the same vein, explain how reluctance to bomb Iraq without any evidence of WMD/Links to Osama/Whatever the excuse is this week is linked to shackling the British pensioner. (btw, we don't consider 55 to be elderly; are you from California?)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Not debating the issue at hand makes one appear as pointless as JK, and as incapable of rebuttal and debate, which is nice if you're just into flaming, but not productive, or condusive to the further understanding of ideas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/718129.stm

JK - the man was known to have a history of offences with firearms; the firearm he used was illegal; he shot a 16year old in the back; he was of a vigilante mindset.

All of the above are reasons why I do not believe Tony Martin to be a helpless old man. And the fact remains that in order to be eligible for parole, you need to express remorse at your behaviour and be judged unlikely to reoffend. Given that Mr Martin refuses to do so, I fail to see how parole can be granted.

On another note, I find it utterly repellent and disgusting that one of the burglars is attempting to sue Mr Martin. Lets hope that the judge in that case sees some common sense.

You just don't get it. The Martin guy did nothing wrong. How can defending your home and your personal safety be a crime?

It is self-hating European cowardice.

JK

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You just don't get it. The Martin guy did nothing wrong. How can defending your home and your personal safety be a crime?

JK

JK, perhaps according to US law, this man did nothing wrong. In the UK however, we do not appreciate persons of a vigilante persuasion with a history of firearms offences waving sawn-off shotguns about, let alone shooting minors in the back. Mr Martin had had his weapons license revoked and was therefore illegally carrying the weapon.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
That commies thing is just JK's way, hon ;)

JK - please explain the link between supporting this man's application for parole and wanting to bomb Sadaam.

Thanks

The link is obvious. When a government is more efficient at terrorizing and harming its law-abiding citizens than the terrorists that attack its country, that country is in serious, serious decline.

If only Britain and the rest of Europe treated Al Qaeda and Saddam the same way that Europeans treat their elderly, the world would be free of terrorism.

But wait, what am I thinking. The self-hating Europeans and their self-hatred of western civilization makes terrorizing internal elderly citizens more politically correct than dealing with Al Qaeda terrorists. Dealing with Al Qaeda is politically incorrect and does not promote "diversity". Terrorizing the elderly promotes "diversity".

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


JK, perhaps according to US law, this man did nothing wrong. In the UK however, we do not appreciate persons of a vigilante persuasion with a history of firearms offences waving sawn-off shotguns about, let alone shooting minors in the back. Mr Martin had had his weapons license revoked and was therefore illegally carrying the weapon.

It was inside his home, Lilly. I don't care what way you present it--they invaded his home and their lives were forfeit. Any civilized state promotes such defense.

It is civil. Britian, it appears, is no longer civil.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The link is obvious. When a government is more efficient at terrorizing and harming its law-abiding citizens than the terrorists that attack its country, that country is in serious, serious decline.
JK

one mile from my mothers house (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2586091.stm)

[LillyThePink]

The key there, JK is in your second sentence. Law abiding. Mr Martin is not.

You say Al Quaeda and Sadaam in the same sentence as if they were one and the same. Not true, hon. I happen to feel that if we treated Ariel Sharon the same way we treat Sadaam Hussain, the whole Middle East debacle would settle itself much quicker.

Self-hating Europeans?!?! Have you ever met a Frenchman?

(j/k, btw!!)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
The key there, JK is in your second sentence. Law abiding. Mr Martin is not.

You say Al Quaeda and Sadaam in the same sentence as if they were one and the same. Not true, hon. I happen to feel that if we treated Ariel Sharon the same way we treat Sadaam Hussain, the whole Middle East debacle would settle itself much quicker.

Self-hating Europeans?!?! Have you ever met a Frenchman?

(j/k, btw!!)

Lily, I don't care whose house it was that was invaded, the person who owns the house can defend it. The shooting was justified and I am quite proud of him, actually.

The moral to the story is that you do not go inside other people's houses to rob them or else you take the risk of eating lead at 3200 feet per second.

JK

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


It was inside his home, Lilly. I don't care what way you present it--they invaded his home and their lives were forfeit. Any civilized state promotes such defense.

JK

No, actually, JK. Nowhere is it written (except for perhaps the US constistution) that you get to shoot unarmed people in the back. This is not considered to be reasonable force.

[Aardvark_DK]

Hey, I wanna try out my latest invention:

[Jedi script]
RAAAARARA!!! Atheist! RAAAR! Evil! Commies! SaddamOsamaAlQaeda! HATEHATEHATE (but not from me)! Argle bargle! FemiNazis! Matriarchy! Grrrr! Abortion! More Commies! 200 billion a year (unspecified)! European weaklings! Kill! Etc.
[/Jedi script]

Hmmm, works pretty good. Hardly distinguishable from the real thing.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


No, actually, JK. Nowhere is it written (except for perhaps the US constistution) that you get to shoot unarmed people in the back. This is not considered to be reasonable force.

They broke into his home. He shot them. He had the right to do it. It was his house, not theirs. Where they got shot is irrevelant. If they weren't robbing him, they wouldn't have gotten shot. If they didn't break into his house, they wouldn't have gotten shot.

In all of western history, it is a well-known historical truth that if you break into another man's home you run the risk of getting shot. Everyone knows this.

Well...everyone but appeasement to the criminal class Europeans.

JK

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


No, actually, JK. Nowhere is it written (except for perhaps the US constistution) that you get to shoot unarmed people in the back. This is not considered to be reasonable force.

Sorry, I need to add a disclaimer.

This is not considered to be reasonable force, unless you are in the American military, in the Gulf, and a bunch of Iraqi soldiers who have surrendered are retreating. Then it's ok. Obviously.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


Sorry, I need to add a disclaimer.

This is not considered to be reasonable force, unless you are in the American military, in the Gulf, and a bunch of Iraqi soldiers who have surrendered are retreating. Then it's ok. Obviously.

No, in the imaginary European socialist pro-criminal state it is, but in the real world a criminal that breaks into your house can be shot anywhere. Just point the gun and fire.

JK

[LillyThePink]

You appear to think that not supporting this criminal is somehow supportive of the criminal class


The people who were robbing his home were criminals. When he took a shotgun to them, he himself became a criminal. I condemn all equally. How does it then follow that I am a supporter of the criminal class? YOU are the one who is vehemently arguing in support of a man who broke the laws of the country in which he lives. Therefore I contest that it is in fact YOU who supports the criminal class and not I, for I do not condone the behaviour of EITHER set of criminals as you do.

:)

[a_unique_person]

As someone has pointed out already, you are entitled to use reasonable force. This has the basis in the idea that you cannot, for example, set man traps. A poacher cannot be killed for trespassing on a lord's manor to get food to eat.

[iain]

JK,

First, thank you for giving me a good laugh; I'm having a pretty dull day at work.

I'm impressed by your achievement. You've taken a stance which, at heart, many English people would agree with. Maybe a majority of the population think that Tony Martin has been unfairly and unjustly treated.

Then you manage to turn that reasonably popular position into one only a madman could agree with in just a few short posts. Suddenly the burglars are "terrorists" etc. etc. and a good argument turns into a meaningless rant.

Good to see you back at your best. Keep up the good work.

[Drooper]

Originally posted by iain
JK,

First, thank you for giving me a good laugh; I'm having a pretty dull day at work.

I'm impressed by your achievement. You've taken a stance which, at heart, many English people would agree with. Maybe a majority of the population think that Tony Martin has been unfairly and unjustly treated.

Then you manage to turn that reasonably popular position into one only a madman could agree with in just a few short posts. Suddenly the burglars are "terrorists" etc. etc. and a good argument turns into a meaningless rant.

Good to see you back at your best. Keep up the good work.

Well put.

[Aardvark_DK]

I second that, Drooper.

[LillyThePink]

Well, JK?





*sound of crickets*

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Well, JK?





*sound of crickets*

The "sound of crickets" you hear are not crickets at all but the sound of shackles as the Britainazi commie courts send law-abiding citizens to the gallows while the criminals go free. That is the hallmark of the socialist state--you know, people are "criminals" because the "state" did something to make "them" criminals.

When the law-abiding citizens don't figure that out, they are led away in chains.

JK

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Britainazi commie
YEAH! GO, JK!

[Dazza]

JK, you are as bigoted as you are ignorant. There is no sensible way of talking to you but other people reading this might want to consider the following facts:

Tony Martin was convicted of murder by a jury. The Court of Appeal said this:

"In judging whether the defendant had only used reasonable force, the jury has to take into account all the circumstances, including the situation as the defendant honestly believes it to be at the time, when he was defending himself. It does not matter if the defendant was mistaken in his belief as long as his belief was genuine.

Accordingly, the jury could only convict Mr Martin if either they did not believe his evidence that he was acting in self-defence or they thought that Mr Martin had used an unreasonable amount of force. These were issues which were ideally suited to a decision of a jury. "

And also:

"It cannot be left to a defendant to decide what force it is reasonable to use because this would mean that even if a defendant used disproportionate force but he believed he was acting reasonably he would not be guilty of any offence. It is for this reason that it was for the jury, as the representative of the public, to decide the amount of force which it would be reasonable and the amount of force which it would be unreasonable to use in the circumstances in which they found that Mr Martin believed himself to be in."

The jury made their decision based on more evidence than a few newspaper articles and I think it would be wrong to second guess their decision.

One particular passage in the Court of Appeal judgement seems to stand out:

"On a number of occasions at meetings of the local Farm Watch and in discussions with neighbours and the local policeman Mr Martin was said to have made his dissatisfaction with the police very plain. He was heard to express the view repeatedly that self-help was the better way of dealing with criminals. He is said to have used such remarks as "you know the best way to stop them - shoot the bastards"; that if a particular team of burglars returned he would "blow their heads off"; and he was also said to have suggested that he would recommend putting such criminals in a field and using a machine gun on them."

These are matters that the Jury may well have had in mind when deciding whether Martin was only using reasonable force to defend himself against a perceived threat.

A key part of Martins case was that he fired shots while standing on the stairs, thinking that the burglars were coming towards him. Forensice evidence showed that in fact he had come right down the stairs and into the room where the burglars were:

"Two areas of shot damage were found on the far wall of the breakfast room from the door at the foot of the stairs, one below the window out of which the two men exited, and one to its right in a door. All the experts agreed that these two areas of damage were not in the direct line of sight of a person standing anywhere on the stairs, so that the shots that caused that damage could therefore not have been fired from the stairs."

This clearly undermined the credibility of Martin's account.

On appeal Martin's lawyers brought up new evidence showing that Martin suffered from a paranoid personality disorder which would have aggravated his perception of the threat to him.

The Court of Appeal held that personality disorders were not relevant to the question of whether force was reasonable and so dismissed that part of his appeal. This decision is controversial and has been criticised : However they did reduce his conviction to one of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

Critique of Court of Appeals decision (http://www.hartpub.co.uk/Updates/upcrimlaw_selfdefence.htm)

Martin's life sentence (compulsory in all murder convictions) was reduced to five years in prison. On sentencing him the COurt said:

"There is also no doubt that the two men who broke into Mr Martin's house were intent on committing burglary. Mr Martin was entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself and his home, but the jury were surely correct in coming to their judgment that Mr Martin was not acting reasonably in shooting one of the intruders, who happened to be 16, dead and seriously injuring the other.

Any shortcomings on the part of the police could not justify Mr Martin taking the law into his own hands. We understand how frustrated Mr Martin may have been and in deciding what sentence is appropriate we take into account not only the evidence of his medical witnesses, but also the conduct to which he had been subjected. We also take into account that we must make it clear that an extremely dangerous weapon cannot be used in the manner in which it was used by Mr Martin that night."

Should Tony Martin still be in Prison? I don't know, but earlier poster have pointed out the problem in giving parole to someone who refuses to admit they did anything wrong.

Is Tony Martin innocent? No. He was properly convicted of manslaughter for using an illegal firearm with unreasonable force. Five years is a reasonable sentence in my view given the circumstances and his medical condition.

Should JK be allowed out on his own? Clearly not


And for legal anoraks, find the Court of Appeal Decision here:
Court Service (http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/judgments/judg_frame.htm?OpenDocument');)

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The "sound of crickets" you hear are not crickets at all but the sound of shackles as the Britainazi commie courts send law-abiding citizens to the gallows while the criminals go free. That is the hallmark of the socialist state--you know, people are "criminals" because the "state" did something to make "them" criminals.

When the law-abiding citizens don't figure that out, they are led away in chains.

JK

Yeah the death penalty is back. Woohoo! Lets execute all the old folk and convert to Islam!!

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Dazza
There is no sensible way of talking to you but other people reading this might want to consider the following facts

Well, naturally. I am not a commie.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Yeah the death penalty is back. Woohoo! Lets execute all the old folk and convert to Islam!!

That is what is happening in Britain right now because British males are too spineless to stop it. I hope you get to like Allah and watching British children bobbing up and down in front of small wooden desks all day because that is where your country is going.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


That is what is happening in Britain right now because British males are too spineless to stop it. I hope you get to like Allah and watching British children bobbing up and down in front of small wooden desks all day because that is where your country is going.

JK

Are mental hospitals expensive in the USA? Serioulsly JK. You really do need treatment I'll donate some money if we start a fund for you....

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Are mental hospitals expensive in the USA?

Check your mail for the bill and tell us.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Check your mail for the bill and tell us.

JK

As we have an NHS we dont pay for that. You see, you really are that ignorant about the UK

Now, how much would a therapy session cost you?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


As we have an NHS we dont pay for that. You see, you really are that ignorant about the UK

Now, how much would a therapy session cost you?

Oh so when you were just released from the white room you didn't have to pay? That is socialism. Communism.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh so when you were just released from the white room you didn't have to pay? That is socialism. Communism.

JK

Your the one ranting JK. Go on, let's see how much of a frenzy you can work yourself into you sad little man.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Your the one ranting JK. Go on, let's see how much of a frenzy you can work yourself into you sad little man.

I am replying to your social-commie rants. Say something constructive..oh wait, you can't. You have been so brainwashed by the socialists that you can't think for yourself anymore.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I am replying to your social-commie rants. Say something constructive..oh wait, you can't. You have been so brainwashed by the socialists that you can't think for yourself anymore.

JK

Go on JK, let it all out.........

[chulbert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Well Lilly, apparently you don't understand what really happened. The guy was alone in the dark with two criminal terrorists. He started shooting to save his own life because it was dark, there were two, possibly more criminal terrorists in his house, and the terrorists thought "Uh oh, he has a gun." and they started to try and find a way out.

The spin is making me dizzy. The guy had been robbed before so I find it unlikely he feared for his life. In fact, the article itself said he was just trying to scare them off. If you fear for your life you don't try to "just scare them off."

They should not have been in his house in the middle of the night.

I agree absolutely, tho I have a question. How does one's right to property rank compared to one's right to live?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Go on JK, let it all out.........

Shaun, you have been trolling with almost every post on this thread that you have made. Add something constructive or go away. Tell me about your socialist brainwashing. That interests me.

Or give me your opinion about Princess Diana sharpening Dodi Fayed's pencil before she met her untimely, but convenient death.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Shaun, you have been trolling with almost every post on this thread that you have made. Add something constructive or go away. Tell me about your socialist brainwashing. That interests me.

Or give me your opinion about Princess Diana sharpening Dodi Fayed's pencil before she met her untimely, but convenient death.

JK

I am being constructive. I am honestly trying to point out to you your obvious need for professional mental health care.


As for Diana (she was not a Princess at the time of her death you ignorant fool - wrong again about things British) as I am a Scottish Nationalist Republican, I couldn't give a rats ass who she was sleeping with.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


I am being constructive. I am honestly trying to point out to you your obvious need for professional mental health care.


As for Diana (she was not a Princess at the time of her death you ignorant fool - wrong again about things British) as I am a Scottish Nationalist Republican, I couldn't give a rats ass who she was sleeping with.

Leftist nonsense is all you can say. Seriously, you have nothing constructive to say. You have a weak, faulty mind. No agility whatsoever. A product of the public school system, perhaps?

Try and brush off your inner feelings for Princess Di too. I love it. You would have been screaming if she married Dodi and he became the step-father of the future king of England. But Di's convenient death took care of that, didn't it?

Tell me, when Di died, did you cry? Did you walk to the tiny memorial and drop some cheap flowers on the ground or were you happy she died?

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Leftist nonsense is all you can say. Seriously, you have nothing constructive to say. You have a weak, faulty mind. No agility whatsoever. A product of the public school system, perhaps?

Try and brush off your inner feelings for Princess Di too. I love it. You would have been screaming if she married Dodi and he became the step-father of the future king of England. But Di's convenient death took care of that, didn't it?

Tell me, when Di died, did you cry? Did you walk to the tiny memorial and drop some cheap flowers on the ground or were you happy she died?

JK

Nice one. Did you find a chemist open then?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Nice one. Did you find a chemist open then?

You are whining Shaun. You didn't even read what I posted. I know it hurts your leftist eyes and your socialist brainwashing, but did you cry when Di died? Did you? Did you drop flowers off at her tiny memorial? Were you, like a vast segment of the socialist British government, relieved when she died so that the "Muslim" connection was severed?

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You are whining Shaun. You didn't even read what I posted. I know it hurts your leftist eyes and your socialist brainwashing, but did you cry when Di died? Did you? Did you drop flowers off at her tiny memorial? Were you, like a vast segment of the socialist British government, relieved when she died so that the "Muslim" connection was severed?

JK

I told you, try doubling the dosage. It may help to prevent your sad drivel.

[edthedoc]

You lot have missed another important point about the Tony Martin case: he shot and killed a young man who I gather was a member of the gypsy community, which is probably like killing a member of the Sopranos. Apparently there is now a contract out on Mr Martin who may have to be relocated abroad on his release.

Oh, and by the way, he's not OLD: he is or was 55.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
I told you, try doubling the dosage. It may help to prevent your sad drivel.

Shaun, you are still whining. Answer the questions I gave you. Don't quit. Don't give into leftist name-calling, even though that is the level of intellect you possess. Make a change in your life and think for once.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Look, we can have a whip round if you can't afford it. Honestly, I mean well by you.....

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
Look, we can have a whip round if you can't afford it. Honestly, I mean well by you.....

Did you cry when Di died? Did you? Did you drop flowers off at her tiny memorial? Were you, like a vast segment of the socialist British government, relieved when she died so that the "Muslim" connection was severed?

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Oh well I tried.

I must say, I am alarmed that the mentally ill are allowed to go like this without treatment in the USA. Maybe you should adopt our matriarchal, Britainnazi, moslem terrorist ideas when it comes to health care.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
Oh well I tried.

I must say, I am alarmed that the mentally ill are allowed to go like this without treatment in the USA. Maybe you should adopt our matriarchal, Britainnazi, moslem terrorist ideas when it comes to health care.

Answer the question. Your adolescent name-calling won't work. Leftist tools like that don't phase me whatsoever.

Now, were you relieved when Princess Diana died (as your own government was relieved) because the "Muslim" connection was broken?

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Answer the question. Your adolescent name-calling won't work. Leftist tools like that don't phase me whatsoever.

Now, were you relieved when Princess Diana died (as your own government was relieved) because the "Muslim" connection was broken?

JK

Little tip for you. Dont complain about adolescant name calling when post number one in a thread contains lines like these:

"British cowards! How could you possibly allow this happen?"

You see, that gets peoples backs up.

Now, I will repeat. As I am a Scottish Nationalist Republican I dont give a rats ass about Di or Dodi. You see, as a Republican I would get rid of the whole Royal Family. A bit like your George Washington.

Now, are you going to go and get some treatment and stop embarassing yourself?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Little tip for you. Dont complain about adolescant name calling when post number one in a thread contains lines like these:

"British cowards! How could you possibly allow this happen?"

You see, that gets peoples backs up.

Now, I will repeat. As I am a Scottish Nationalist Republican I dont give a rats ass about Di or Dodi. You see, as a Republican I would get rid of the whole Royal Family. A bit like your George Washington.

Now, are you going to go and get some treatment and stop embarassing yourself?

That isn't name calling. Coward is a very descriptive term that applies unconditonally to many British men. Especially those that do not support Tony Blair and his accurate urgency to help the United States against the terror state of Iraq.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


That isn't name calling. Coward is a very descriptive term that applies unconditonally to many British men. Especially those that do not support Tony Blair and his accurate urgency to help the United States against the terror state of Iraq.

JK

Yes it is, you gultless little rat.

Now go get some more medication.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Yes it is, you gultless little rat.

Now go get some more medication.

There is no medication for the patriotism and love of my country that afflicts me. I will feel better though when I start seeing laser-guided bombs reign down upon the enemy terrorist state of Iraq.

JK

[LillyThePink]

I think perhaps you are confusing patriotism with jingoism.

:(

Also, you failed to respond to my contension re:- supporting the criminal classes.

Thanks

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
I think perhaps you are confusing patriotism with jingoism.

:(

Also, you failed to respond to my contension re:- supporting the criminal classes.

Thanks

Lilly, I have explained my position on this matter very well. I will go over it one more time just for you.

If you are sleeping in your house and in the middle of the night a group of intruders breaks into it, if you feel you are in grave danger you can use deadly force. It is universal law.

It doesn't matter where those criminal terrorists got shot--they were in his house uninvited with the intent to rob him. Just because the guy was successful at defending himself doesn't mean that if he didn't shoot them they would not have harmed him. The point of shooting them is to prevent them from harming the homeowner whose home was invaded.

Any thinking contrary to this is appeasement of the criminal class. It is basically telling the criminals to go rob anyone they want inside people's homes because the "system" won't reach out to them and punish them. In fact, according to British law, the homeowner can't defend his property. That is laughably ridiculous and if that happened in the US the judge would get impeached and laughed out of office.

Render under Ceasar what is Ceasar's and the rest is yours. You have the God given right to defend your home and your family. If you live alone then by God I hope you do own a gun to defend yourself from the monsters out there. But "celebrating" crime, as this case in Britain has done only puts more homeowners in grave danger from hostile criminal terrorist intruders.

No one has the right to go into anyone elses house uninvited. To give that right to criminals is barbarism and only exists in the socialist commie state.

JK