Rumsfeld running the war?

[a_unique_person]

Rumsfeld denies overruling military plan
Sunday, March 30, 2003 Posted: 12:19 PM EST (1719 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Sunday dismissed "hyperventilating" critics of the war in Iraq and called reports that he vetoed plans by top officers for a larger invasion force "fiction."



not the first time i have heard that he is the person actually running the war.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/30/sprj.irq.rumsfeld/index.html

when hitler and stalin were massacerring millions of their own troops, it was stalin who gave in first, and let the generals run the war and win.

[Jedi Knight]

I don't know who is running the war but they are doing an outstanding job. They deserve medals for their great work.

JK

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


not the first time i have heard that he is the person actually running the war.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/30/sprj.irq.rumsfeld/index.html

when hitler and stalin were massacerring millions of their own troops, it was stalin who gave in first, and let the generals run the war and win.
"When Hitler and Stalin were massacring millions of their own troops, it was Stalin who gave in first, and let the generals run the war and win."

NNTTM

[Richard G]

Secretary of Defense is his title. Yes, he is running the war. All war plans have been pre-approved by the Presidesnt, and the National Security Council.

[a_unique_person]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/30/1048962646008.html



Rumsfeld war theory blamed for problems
March 31 2003
By Vernon Loeb
Washington

Current and former US military officers are blaming Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his staff for the inadequate troop strength in Iraq, saying civilian leaders "micromanaged" the deployment plan out of mistrust of the generals and an attempt to prove their theory that a light, manoeuvrable force could defeat Saddam Hussein.

More than a dozen officers interviewed by the Washington Post, including a senior officer in Iraq, said Mr Rumsfeld took significant risks by leaving key units in the US and Germany at the start of the war.

They said this had resulted in an invasion force that was too small, strung out, underprotected, undersupplied and awaiting tens of thousands of reinforcements who were weeks away.

"The civilians in (Rumsfeld's office) vetoed the priority and sequencing of joint forces into the region - as it was requested by the war fighters - and manipulated it to support their priorities," said an officer who asked not to be named.

[ImpyTimpy]

I disagree.. Seems to me the war effort is slowing down more and more, as more resistance is encountered. I think whoever is "running" this was didn't actually take into consideration the fact Iraq will fight back...

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I don't know who is running the war but they are doing an outstanding job. They deserve medals for their great work.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
I disagree.. Seems to me the war effort is slowing down more and more, as more resistance is encountered. I think whoever is "running" this was didn't actually take into consideration the fact Iraq will fight back...



Bogged down? You have been listening to too much leftist media spin.

US and British forces are destroying the Iraqi military. Absolutely destroying it.

Just a few hours ago in fact, thousands of fresh Marines just came screaming out of Kuwait on a search and destroy mission to clean up the minor pockets of resistance along the supply lines.

This war was over the first night the bombs started falling. When the 4th ID rolls, the screaming will really start.

Think Iraq will surrender before that?

But gosh, let me guess....it is only 9 days into the war, the US has only had 37 soldiers killed in action, and you are claiming the US military is "bogged down" lol. There has been over 12,000 Iraqi soldiers killed in action with over 4,000 captured.

Tell me again how we are "bogged down".

The most deceptive media campaign in history is now going on by the leftists. I am most impessed. It won't help the morale of the Iraqi army though. The leftist media Medina division will never learn. :D

JK

[a_unique_person]

JK, how about responding to the point of the thread, that the generals have been elbowed aside by an amateur?

As for bogged down, the desert is pretty easy to conquer. The hard part is going to be the cities. Saddam has been sending free copies of 'Black Hawk Down' to everyone.

The real question is, who do the Iraqis dislike more, Saddam or George. We will have to wait and find out.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
JK, how about responding to the point of the thread, that the generals have been elbowed aside by an amateur?

As for bogged down, the desert is pretty easy to conquer. The hard part is going to be the cities. Saddam has been sending free copies of 'Black Hawk Down' to everyone.

The real question is, who do the Iraqis dislike more, Saddam or George. We will have to wait and find out.

You are such a bore. Mr. Rumsfeld is a genius. He helped build the new army that President Reagan commanded which caused the collapse of communist terror collective of the former Soviet Union.

You are such a non-thinker. The only way Iraq can be saved now is if Syria and Iran attack. Even then it will only make the war last a few extra months.

Iraq is already finished. The leftist media just hasn't come to grips on that reality yet. It is hard reporting on such matters though when the leftist media sees one of their hero nation-states on fire and spiraling into destruction.

JK

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You are such a bore. Mr. Rumsfeld is a genius. He helped build the new army that President Reagan commanded which caused the collapse of communist terror collective of the former Soviet Union.

You are such a non-thinker. The only way Iraq can be saved now is if Syria and Iran attack. Even then it will only make the war last a few extra months.

Iraq is already finished. The leftist media just hasn't come to grips on that reality yet. It is hard reporting on such matters though when the leftist media sees one of their hero nation-states on fire and spiraling into destruction.

JK

i didn't cast aspersions on his intelligence.

I don't doubt that america will 'win' the war.

However, putting billions of extra dollars into the US military achieves what? For what? The US has already lost the war in many ways.

The world tolerated the Afghan invasion, as it was against the regime that backed Al Queda. The conventional part was over very quickly, but the 'peace' has not been won, at all. Warlords still run the country as their own personal war game. The people still suffer, and US troops are still dying.

Now look to this current war. There are large protests the world over, the Muslims see it, not as a war against Saddam, but against Islam and the East. The mess that still exists in Afghanistan may be much worse in Iraq. The trust that the people had for the US during Desert Storm appears to have evaporated. (either that or those that did trust the US just don't exist any more).

Saddam is not popular, but neither is the US. The US is already shaping up to fight more wars. Wouldn't it be better for those countries it is lining up to fight a proxy battle via Iraq? If the US gets it's nose bloodied enough, it may be less inclined to move on to the next war.

The idea of the quick, clean 'surigical' strike is pretty well dead, again. The US appears to be just as good at killing it'a allies as it does the Iraqis. Canada hasn't come back for more after the attack it suffered in Afghanistan, and the subsequent lack of justice. The armies have been fighting non stop, and lacking sleep. How many of them are hyped up on speed in this war?

[a_unique_person]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ZS0IWVCPXOBVICRBAE0CF EY?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2490844



Some current officers, most speaking anonymously, and numerous retired officers have aimed sharp criticism at Rumsfeld's influence in a war plan they say included too few ground forces and relied on rosy assumptions that the Iraqis would not put up much of a fight.

These critics argue that Rumsfeld micro-managed the war plan now being used by U.S. commander Gen. Tommy Franks, driven by an unrealistic vision of how a war can be waged.

Retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey has been among the most vociferous critics. However, the Army's senior ground commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. William Wallace, told reporters last week that overextended supply lines and Iraq's unconventional tactics increased the likelihood of a longer war than many U.S. strategists had projected.

[subgenius]

Debating with an irrational fool who thinks there are no violent men in America and that no woman has ever been abused is an exercise in futility. Why does anyone respond to him (JK)?

[dsm]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Iraq is already finished.

Most likely. But tell us, JK, will they surrender before or after they use at least one of their weapons of mass destruction in this war?

:rolleyes:

[fishbob]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/28/politics/main260175.shtml (http://)

From 1991 to 1996, Rumsfeld served as a member of the board of directors of Amylin Pharmaceuticals. Rumsfeld was chairman and chief executive officer of General Instrument Corporation from October 1990 to August 1993 and served as a senior advisor to William Blair & Co., an investment banking firm, from 1985 to 1990. He was chief executive officer of G.D. Searle & Co. from 1977 to 1985.

Rumsfeld was born on July 9, 1932 in Chicago, Illinois. He received a B.A. in Politics from Princeton University in 1954. He served in the U.S. Navy as a naval aviator from 1954-1957.

Rumsfeld became active in government in 1958 when he worked as administrative assistant to Congressman Dave Dennison of Ohio. In 1959, he became a staff assistant to then Congressman Robert Griffin of Michigan. From 1960 to 1962, he was with the Chicago investment banking firm of A. G. Becker and Company.

In 1962, he was elected to the United States House of Representatives from the Thirteenth District of Illinois to serve in the 88th Congress. He was re-elected by large majorities in 1964, 1966 and 1968.

A career businessman and politician is maybe not an expert in estimating troop strength, logistics, and support. He probably is an expert on budgeting, cost analysis, and obtaining funding.

So JK, who do want fixing your toilet? A plumber or an accountant?

[subgenius]

"...who do want fixing your toilet? A plumber or an accountant?"

Same question I asked about who do you want running your Space Shuttle program?

[fishbob]

I think it is a very important question. It should be asked a lot.

[Smalso]

posted by JK: Bogged down? You have been listening to too much leftist media spin

You should, instead, be listening to rightist media spin. Once you have your mind made up, don't be confused by a bunch of facts.

[Lemastre]

Isn't it Rumsfeld's prerogative as Sec of Defense to overrule the Pentagon? If he did, it's not surprising, since he doesn't seem the sort to admit his inability to manage anything, including an invasion or a war. A lot of folks expected the Iraqi military to fold immediately. Also, those advising the war effort may wish to hold back resources as much as possible to be better equipped for the next adventure in regime-changing.

[max]

JK
How do you know the USA are winning this 'war'? I think their first mistake was by speeding up to Baghdad without thought for how the supplies were going to get there and back. each supply wagon has to do a 600 mile trip, how rediculous. The concentration should have been on securing all the towns one by one until they reached Baghdad. The top people, whoever they are made a mistake in thinking once they had sped up to the capital, the Iraqis would welcome them with open arms. The shock and awe in addition would frighten them into submission and oh boy, it just hasn't transpired. In the newspaper today it states that the USA are running out of missiles and tornado missiles. it is looking to borrow billions for more weapons.
it is looking worrying to me because if the arabs win this one the world is in serious trouble

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by max
JK
How do you know the USA are winning this 'war'? I think their first mistake was by speeding up to Baghdad without thought for how the supplies were going to get there and back. each supply wagon has to do a 600 mile trip, how rediculous. The concentration should have been on securing all the towns one by one until they reached Baghdad. The top people, whoever they are made a mistake in thinking once they had sped up to the capital, the Iraqis would welcome them with open arms. The shock and awe in addition would frighten them into submission and oh boy, it just hasn't transpired. In the newspaper today it states that the USA are running out of missiles and tornado missiles. it is looking to borrow billions for more weapons.
it is looking worrying to me because if the arabs win this one the world is in serious trouble

the missiles are a nice to have, not a must have. What it does mean is more casualties for the US if they run out. It reduces their ability to just stand back and let the missiles do the dirty work. Either way, the result will not be in doubt.

[BillyTK]

"Never, never, never believe that any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The Statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforseeable and uncontrollable events."
- Winston Churchill

“No one starts a war--or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so--without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.”
- Karl von Clausewitz

"The plan you see is the plan we have been on. Those who would seek to find a wedge between the various leaders among us who have been party to this will likely not be able to do so, because this has been worked and studied over a long period."
- General Tommy Franks

"The enemy we're fighting is different from the one we'd wargamed against."
- General William Wallace

Maybe the war is running Rumsfeld...

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


when hitler and stalin were massacerring millions of their own troops, it was stalin who gave in first, and let the generals run the war and win.

So Rumsfeld is compared to Hitler and Stailin and 37 casualties are being compared to "massacerring [sic] millions"?

U_A_P you are such an ass!

No really you are. :rolleyes:

Barkhorn.