Bring Jello to school, get suspended

[CBL4]

Another example of zero tolerance for using common sense:

Eight-year-old Kelli Billingsley brought homemade Jell-O cups to school at Boudreaux Elementary. Her mom says the school tested the Jell-O and determined it didn't have any alcohol in it. But the school suspended the girl for having a look alike drug.

The girl's mom says her daughter was just trying to make a treat for her friends.http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=2659211

CBL

[kimiko]

So I guess kids can't snort lines of pixi sticks anymore either.

[varwoche]

In yet a more twisted vein, a middle school student in Prosser, WA was 1) disciplined by the school, and 2) investigated by the secret service, for anti-war drawings made in art class. (He was ratted out by his art teacher.)
thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39300)

[CBL4]

Here is my question for school board members:

A zero tolerance policy treats jello cups the same as heroin. I happen to believe there is a very real difference and I trust principals to be able to distinguish between them. What do you think?

CBL

[webfusion]

I must be really out-of-the-loop, but it took a bit of research to even understand the OP...

http://www.gigglingmarlin.com/graphics/jello.jpg

Jello is a favorite for mixing shots of alcohol and then slurping them up (as illustrated seems to be the favorite method).


...and that brings me to fail to understand how an 8-year-old is in trouble for this?

[DavidJames]

I had a picnic for my team and their families at my house. One of my team leads brought Jello "Jigglers". Later, my kids complained that the Jello didn't taste so good. Turnd out the "Jigglers" were spiked. My kids survived, I survived. I fired my team lead. Just kidding, I only demoted him. Kidding again, we laughed about it.

Zero tolerance, like any rule or law which tries to provide a simple solution to complex issues doesn't work.

[Charlie Monoxide]

Damn, I've been leading a sheltered life. I didn't quite understand the problem. Help me out here. So, some people have been known to mix alcohol (presumably vodka) and jello to make "jello cups". Some kid, taking some initiative decides to make some "jello cups" (the kids version, without the booze), and bring said project to school to distribute amongst friends. Teachers freak out thinking perhaps the kid is giving out the leftovers from a "grownup" party.

OK, I'm still confused. Did the faculty think maybe the child is giving out jello with a potential of "mad cow" in it (IIRC jello is made from animal protein)?

Charlie (I need a candy cigarette) Monoxide

[Ove]

My son's (12yr) class was going to have a party and some of the parents was going to help out. One of them had the task of setting up a "bar" serving drinks with the real names (Manhattan - Bloody Mary -etc) but off course without alcohol. When we arrived that evening most parents nearly died laughing when we saw the sign he had made. He had put "Body Tequila" on it...............:jaw:

He SWORE (and we eventually believed him) that he didn't know what a "Body Tequila" really is....:D :D :D :D

[priapus]

We had a child suspended today here in Houston, after the school found out that the child had received some cough syrup from her mother before school. I think it was Vicks 44.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by priapus
We had a child suspended today here in Houston, after the school found out that the child had received some cough syrup from her mother before school. I think it was Vicks 44.

Evidence?

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Ove
He SWORE (and we eventually believed him) that he didn't know what a "Body Tequila" really is.
Yeah, what a maroon!

So, just what is a Body Tequila?

[Jaggy Bunnet]

It is not unknown for people to get round alcohol bans at football matches by injecting vodka into oranges and then eating the orange.

Should schools ban fruit?

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Jaggy Bunnet
It is not unknown for people to get round alcohol bans at football matches by injecting vodka into oranges and then eating the orange.

Should schools ban fruit?
Totally, if you ask Yanukovych, I'm sure he'll tell you he wishes he'd banned orange years ago.

[CBL4]

I was in high school just after the Jim Jones mass suicide. After school one day, we made a big batch of koolaid in a big tub. We added a white powder (sugar), drank the stuff and fell down "dead." Maybe it was not in the best of taste but we were in high school.

As to the consequence, we were told to stop. That's it. No big deal. I imagine we would have been suspended for month and would have to attend drug seminars, suicide seminar and violence seminars.

I am serious about the seminars. In a nearby county, a honor student took tylenol to school because she had a headache. It never left her backpack but apparently she mentioned it to someone. She was suspended for a month. She was told to reduce the suspension to a week, she needed to attend drug counciling for the rest of the year. It is all very sensible because tylenol comes in pills and, as we all know, pills are simply gateway object to illegal drugs.

CBL

[priapus]

I now I'm full of it sometimes, and so take what I write with a bunch tub of salt. But here is the story requested with first paragraph.


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/011905_local_syrup.html

ABC13 Eyewitness News
(01/19/05 - HOUSTON) — A local student is suspended for being under the influence. The student's mother says all she did was give her daughter a spoonful of cough medicine.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by Jaggy Bunnet
It is not unknown for people to get round alcohol bans at football matches by injecting vodka into oranges and then eating the orange.

Should schools ban fruit? Also, milk, orange juice, tomato juice, and water.

[priapus]

Here is today's Houston offering.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3000604

[Ove]

So, just what is a Body Tequila?

You know with a regular Tequila you lick a little salt from your hand before downing the shot, in this version, (that has become very popular at stag parties etc) the salt is placed on the b**b on a very thinly clad woman, the guy then has to lick ...... Well i'm sure you get the picture.:p

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Ove
You know with a regular Tequila you lick a little salt from your hand before downing the shot, in this version, (that has become very popular at stag parties etc) the salt is placed on the b**b on a very thinly clad woman, the guy then has to lick ...... Well i'm sure you get the picture.:p
Thanks Ove.

[Jas]

IIRC, there was a case a few years ago regarding a jr. high student who gave her friend some ibuprofen for cramps, and was charged with drug traffiking and suspended from school for a week or two.

[Meadmaker]

I heard a school administrator defending the school policy on a radio show following an incident where one of her students was suspended for taking aspirin without permission.

She used the phrase "legal liability" a lot. Let me paraphrase her answer.

If a teacher or principal uses her own judgement, that judgement might be in error, or might be perceived to be in error. As a result of that error, someone might be harmed, or perceived to be harmed. If someone is perceived to be harmed as a result of a mistake by a school official, they can sue.

The teacher also noted that if personal judgement were used, some teachers might not dole out justice "fairly", and this, too, could result in a civil rights lawsuit.

If, on the other hand, someone blindly follows a policy without any attempt to apply judgement or "common sense", there is a lot more protection for both the individuals and the school district. They can say, "She broke the rule. That's it."

In other words, according to this principal at least, a portion of this stupidity results from our overly litigious society.

[HarryKeogh]

and as recalled in Bowling For Columbine a very young child was suspended for bringing nail clippers into school. And another for pointing a fish stick at a person and saying "bang".

tragedy (in these cases, a rash of school shootings) really blunts common sense.

[CBL4]

As a result of that error, someone might be harmed, or perceived to be harmed. If someone is perceived to be harmed as a result of a mistake by a school official, they can sue.So it is better enforce a clearly asinine rule than use common sense. What about the law suits from the suspended students?

Personally I think this type of thing is great lesson for students:
1) Any law is OK if it is anti-drug (or anti-violence or anti-terrorist)
2) Administrators have no brains and no guts.
3) Fairness and justice are not important.
4) Perception is more important than reality.

It prepares them for drug testing for their McDonald's job, the Patriot (sic) Act and most of their bosses. If schools were run properly, the business and legal worlds would be too great a shock. Let's get them ready for the Dilbert workplace and the Bush justice system.

CBL

[Meadmaker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CBL4
So it is better enforce a clearly asinine rule than use common sense. What about the law suits from the suspended students?

If administrators follow the policy religiously, then in order to win a suit, you would have to assert that the policy itself was discriminatory, harmful, or in some other way a tort. As long as the policy is followed blindly, you can't say any harm is a result of the actions of the school administrator.

On the other hand, if someone brought jello, and wasn't suspended, but someone else brought a large collection of unidentifiable white pills that he claimed were aspirin, and was suspended, then the second student could claim discrimination.

At least, that is what I read between the lines of the administrator's comments. She said, more or less, that when a policy is in place, it had to be followed, because failing to follow it rigorously opened you to charges of bias, and if the policy left a lot of room for teacher judgement, then you ran the risk that teachers would not uniformly enforce the policy, which would in turn open you to charges of bias. But if you did nothing, and someone came to harm, such as someone taking an overdose on school grounds, it could be said that you were negligent in failing to notice obviously erratic behavior.

Imagine if one kid did bring in jello shots, and a bunch of kids managed to get drunk. Lawsuit party at P.S. 152!


It prepares them for drug testing for their McDonald's job, the Patriot (sic) Act and most of their bosses.

Sad, but true.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by Meadmaker
If a teacher or principal uses her own judgement, that judgement might be in error, or might be perceived to be in error. As a result of that error, someone might be harmed, or perceived to be harmed. If someone is perceived to be harmed as a result of a mistake by a school official, they can sue.To quote Peter Parker, "I missed the part where that's my problem".

I would be much less likely to incur liability if all drivers were prohibited from driving on a street while I am on it. But that doesn't mean I have the right to demand to have the street to myself. Why should students have to give up their rights to save the school some money? Having a policy against drugs to prevent liability is no more justified than having a policy against Coke to get money from Pepsi (and yes, the latter did happen).

There seems to be this weird idea that if an action harms you, you have the right to stop it, like in the zoning thread in which people defended zoning laws on the basis that violating them lowers home values of neighboring properties. So what? Why does anyone have the right to conscript their neighbor into maintaining their property values? Why does a school have the right to conscript its students into protecting them from lawsuits?

[Art Vandelay]

Something else that confuses me about the story is, even if we accept that teachers should confiscate "look alike drugs", what is the purpose of the punishment? Is it supposed to be a deterrent? I doubt that the student was informed about the policy, or would have been able to understand it even if they tried to explain it to her. The lesson this student learned that day was that grown ups make up silly rules that don't make any sense, and therefore authority shouldn't be respected. Is this really what we want to be teaching our children?

[Meadmaker]

Originally posted by Art Vandelay
Why should students have to give up their rights to save the school some money?

I agree, sort of., but I wouldn't spin it that way. I would say that the school shouldn't be able to be sued for protecting people's rights.

If you really believed that the student should be allowed to bring jello to school without interference from the teachers, and you believed that the school should be sued if there is vodka in the jello, then I would say that your position is incoherent. And yet, that is what some people, by their actions if not their words, advocate.

[UserGoogol]

Originally posted by Art Vandelay
Something else that confuses me about the story is, even if we accept that teachers should confiscate "look alike drugs", what is the purpose of the punishment? Is it supposed to be a deterrent? I doubt that the student was informed about the policy, or would have been able to understand it even if they tried to explain it to her. The lesson this student learned that day was that grown ups make up silly rules that don't make any sense, and therefore authority shouldn't be respected. Is this really what we want to be teaching our children?

Yes.