NO APPLICATION BUT PLENTY OF EXCUSES

[KRAMER]

I get so much enormously entertaining correspondence from potential applicants who never apply, I thought I'd start a thread in which I post them verbatim, for your dining and dancing pleasures.

And here we go with #1...

Hello Kramer!

I've been thinking about things and I'd rather not have the whole world know about my psychic abilities if I have any. It occured to me that the way the media would handle things would make me out to be a freak, and I'd rather not have that title. =S But I'd like to give a prediction to you just to help you along with your research annoymously. It will snow in Florida very soon, it will be a continuance of the interesting weather we've been having globally lately. I predicted many of the weather incidents that have happened recently so I'm fairly certain that this prediction will come true too. Hope it helps you and Mr. Randi out. - Celeste

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, this helps enormously, Celeste. Thanks a heap.

[Hawk one]

Reminds me of the Bertine Zetlitz song "Snow on a hot day". :D

[thatguywhojuggles]

http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=34989

It Never Snows in Florida
by New Found Glory

distance means nothing to me.
it only makes me want to see you longer.
my words just like a mentioned kiss
with every letter they are growing stronger.

days go by.
feelings, they go on.
unfortunately, without you
it will never snow in florida.

it's best to take your time
conversation cuts like glass.
i'm the calm before the storm.
i'm the second before the crash

i've been between myself for days.
i'm the hero of the year.

[Ashles]

It will snow in Florida very soon, it will be a continuance of the interesting weather we've been having globally lately.
I'd like to see him elaborate on this a little.
'Interesting' how?
Compared to when?
Which area of the world?

(And please tell me he wasn't referring to the Tsunami.)

Plus, what are the odds of it snowing in Florida, maybe one in 30? What would you say Kramer? It's not like it's never happened.

According to this (http://home.earthlink.net/~divegeeked/florida.htm) it last hapened only 16 years ago.

So his amazing ability is to guess at weather on the off chance?

He reminds me of an old Fry and Laurie sketch where a Uri Geller-type character is being interviewed and clearly bends spoons with his hands.

As dscribed on this web page (http://www.jamesplaskett.com/) :
Stephen Fry played the part of a TV presenter whilst Hugh Laurie's character was a foreigner claiming the ability to paranormally bend spoons. This, he said, caused him problems. "When I walk down the street people shout after me 'Freak!'" He then gave a display of his wondrous powers by taking a spoon between his hands and bending it. "Well I can do that," responded Fry. He then picked up a spoon and bent it himself, by applying obvious pressure. "Are you sure that it isn't 'Fraud!' that people shout after you?"

[DaveW]

Snow in Florida is not unheard of: Snow in Florida (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/climate/2004-12-21-florida-snow_x.htm)

[KRAMER]

I wrote this fellow back to remind him of two things:

1- It does snow in Florida every now and then, and...
2- There is NOT a verifiable claim.

I mean, really, if it DOES snow in Florida, and even if it DOES snow on the date he proposes to make it snow, how can we possibly verify that it is a result of his alleged "powers"?

His proposal is not an acceptable test.

[KRAMER]

This guy has been bugging me for weeks, insisting I tell him what the test will be before even stating his claim.

I still have no idea what his claim is. Just as Randi would do, I keep repeating the same thing to him: "If you wish to become an applicant for the JREF Paranormal Challenge, APPLY."

He simply won't do it. Now he wants ME to send him an application, saying that his computer won't work. Although the rules clearly state that an application can be requested, he's obviously just wanting to see me jump through hoops for him, and I won't do it. He lives in the UK, and spending 80 cents on a guy who has been nothing but belligerent is, well, it's 80 cents too much.

I won't cater to the whims of such people. The JREF Challenge is designed for sincere-minded individuals who feel they can pass the test, as per the Challenge rules. It is a cooperative investigation into what is commonly refered to as "the unknown".

It is NOT for adults who behave like children, write like infants, refuse to adhere to the Challenge rules, and show such clear signs of suffering from delusional paranoia (or worse) such as this fellow. One can only imagine what his "claim" would consist of.

There is enough time wasted here on people who have no intention of applying. This is just one of hundreds of examples from the JREF files, and only the latest in a stream of silly emails in which this applicant will not even divulge what his claim is.

A complete waste of time for which I have less and less patience as each day passes.

Here's the latest from him...

============================================

The reason I asked for the application to be posted is that my computer is playing up and will not connect to print. I would also like to know roughly what you have in mind for the first pshycic test. I think thats fair, I may wish to sign up but I still don not know what it is that you are proposing and I still do not know what your parameters are within these things. Why should I commit in writing until I know the ground rules. After all you are asking me what it is I wish to demonstrate...These things are not experiments repeatable in an engineering shop! If i said the results would be plain for every one to see and the answers came out in Farsi lingually would you scrap the test or not make payment?because you could say Hey! nobody could see them and no they where not understandable to every one... many times the messages are SYMBOLIC and are therefore open to a degree of interpretion what happens here?. Also as I said to nail things down one would have to probably get personal and produce something exceptional to a person within your institute How do i trust them? They could have the experiment proved to them and just have an off day at the hairdressers for instance and say no to spite me. ... Who am I to propose? YOU perhaps! am I to waste time making proposals to have them poo poohed Surely before I write in with this we should have knocked out a draft or am I being dense here. Ive asked others about this and they are of the same opinion. Perhaps I should just say I will put you in contact with dead poeple !.... how do you know they are dead ? says Mr Randi OH er not sure !! lets muse on that!? how do I know that you are alive and really we are not all dead and that they are the alive ones and we are all zombies.or that there is a transatlantic time reality stabaliser and that some people over there are actually dead and alive at the same time! Over where you say is that a reciprocal rhetorical question? gets a bit wierd . Im not being silly Ive five years advanced theatre a drama study at LAMDA behind me.and I am a successful property developer in London.If it wasnt for lure of being able to afford a sunny home in Florida I couldnt be bothered to do this. As my mentor said You should just say Bollocks to them I didnt ask for this talent I was born like this and so are thousand of others... Do I get the application posted? David

[KRAMER]

And here is some of this fellow's previous nonsense:
=====================================

I presume to apply for the test I must down load the application ? stating what it is I propose to do. Do i state just that which i have already said or I am i to wait until we have finalised the experiment in its entirety.and then apply Ps A highland seer is a prophet originating from the highlands
of Scotland. They claim the ability to be able to fortell the future and to read ones destiny from the aura of the persons soul, clever stuff! David

======================
Want more? How about this?
======================

( Fiona wants you to know she comes from a long line of high land seers) for what its worth. Best to have her on my side I think. a symbol and a number and a question answerable only by deceased relative of one of your staff. The card to be placed in a locked room for a month but visible from the inside whilst my team try to glean the answers.I look forward to your comments. It is however my immpression that should you ask any life changing questions such as the key to fusion energy or the coordinates of a gold field this type of knowledge will not be revealed. Something past and harmless may be the best way to achieve a result. My grand father used to keep tabacco pipes on his mantle piece but his actual smoking pipe was kept in the draw of a bureau furniture piece only our family knew this . Something like that would be adequate perhaps. I look forward to your comments. David

==============================================

What?

A week at TAM3 was not exactly the week off I needed.

[drkitten]

Originally posted by KRAMER
I wrote this fellow back to remind him of two things:

1- It does snow in Florida every now and then, and...
2- There is NOT a verifiable claim.

I mean, really, if it DOES snow in Florida, and even if it DOES snow on the date he proposes to make it snow, how can we possibly verify that it is a result of his alleged "powers"?

His proposal is not an acceptable test.

Ahem, KRAMER,....

I think you're being too harsh. The verification problem is no different than verifying someone's remote viewing powers --- sure, one might have come up "by chance" with the fluffy teddy bear, but you do enough experiments to rule out chance.

Pulling some numbers out of thin air.... the last time it snowed in Florida was, what, 1977? Doing the math really fast -- assume it hasn't snowed in 20 years, and there's 80 "winter" days per year, then the chance of it snowing on any given "winter" day is less than 1 in 20*80 (or 1600).

Being able to "call my shot," as it were, and make it snow on any particular day is exactly as improbable as any other preliminary test.

[KRAMER]

Well, I would direct your attention to the top of this thread (post #1) in which this applicant is clearly withdrawing his claim, rendering the entire matter moot.

I've discussed this with Randi. He agrees more with you than he does with me on the matter of claims in which the applicant purports to have the power to change the weather. I suppose I need to confess that, as the person whose time is being wasted with these weather-altering claims, my patience is tried, to say the least. Definitely. I admit that, and I further admit that this is a personality flaw that has been growing slowly since my arrival here one year ago. My tolerance and patience, for certain kinds of claims, are being chipped away at, and that is not a good thing.
Sadly, these types of claims nearly always seem to be submitted by people who are definitely having problems thinking, communicating, deciphering reality from delusion, etc.

Yes, my patience is running thin.

Particularly when the the claim is so clearly submitted by a total loon, as this one is. Should I ever receive a weather-altering claim letter from someone who doesn't babble on like a clown about their delusions, I will treat them accordingly and do my best to help them devise an acceptable test. Absolutely.

This particular applicant has, for better or worse, denied me that singularly exquisite pleasure.

[KRAMER]

Randi,
Please send the check to the following address.

Andrew Z****
*****************
Missouri City, TX 77***

If you want a personal demonstration, let me know.
However, I think you know what I know about
telepathy and binaural beat audio technology. ...

You'll be dishing out millions soon. If I'm not the
first claimant, I definitely won't be the last.

- Andrew Z***

ps - if you don't send the money immediately,
that's fine. however, it may get "out of hand"
with prospective future applicants. ...

you have been admonished ;)

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by KRAMER
What?

A week at TAM3 was not exactly the week off I needed.

TAM3 was friggin' hard work! Us volunteers were merely goofing off, compared to people like Kramer, Linda, Karl, Hal, Evelyn, etc..... People don't realize just how much effort go into a conference like that.

Still, it's fun helping out anyway we can.... ;)

[KRAMER]

This just came in via email, and may be from an applicant, but we may never know, as he/she neglected to sign it (SHINE SUN incognito, perhaps?), and it is from an email address I do not have in my applicants database. Who the hell knows. Babble babble, toil and trabble.

============================================

Dear Mr. Randi,
I'd first like to say that many of the people whom you seek out to challenge, I too would also challenge the validity of what they claim of themselves. I, as you do, have something of an instinct that sniffs the rottenness in the claims of say all those who claim to be 'Qigong masters'. However I fall very far short of the extent of your breed of scepticism, indeed it does your reason no little mischief when it comes to endeavours that push the frontiers of knowledge, you deny too quickly, you often claim to know what you do not. I mean, to say thus and thus is not true, and to set out to prove what you believe, of necessity means that you pursue only those avenues of thought that support your hypotheses thus sacrificing all subtlety, willingness to see what contradicts your beliefs, willingness to pursue rigourously and thoroughly counter reason, and of course extended research, you just go for the kill, claim yourself a victory, when in certain cases you are plainly in error. So I suggest, that perhaps you aught, on occasion, become sceptical of your 'scepticism', as I am sceptical of the value of scepticism as, as you seem to suggest, the highest mode of reason, especially scepticism that dominates a man's reason, it breeds arrogance and ignorance.
Now I hope you can see that, as well as imparting a little advice, I am also trying to provoke you into battle, you have a very big mouth and I want to yank your tail so as you shout loudly when I defeat you: I believe that your reputation and that of the JREF's would depend upon you making a noise when I liberate you of your million dollors. It also seems to me that my own cause, which is that of something of an iconoclast philosopher, would have a leg up by having you advertise it on my behalf, especially owing to the nature of the defeat, and especially as I here tell you that I will use your money to furnish it with many good things, indeed without your money it would, though far from impossible, be much more difficult to do one or two of the things that seem to me worth while. Risky sounding is it not, meticulously prudent man, I mean that contract of your's, you close the door to new concepts and methods to the point of deeming what science already has in its hand as the method of truth, which is of course preposterous - which, no doubt you will claim of what I have just said, but what do you know of the flaws of your, as Robert Pirsig said, cultural immune system, how could you know anything of it you are an anti-body of a thing far larger than you - and I don't refer to the conscious prudence that is evident in your contract, as you have, after all, at least put you money where you mouth is, thus please read on and here how I would like to take out of your mouth, and replace it with my name.
And if I may say, can you think of any better way to enter the arena of thought than with a duel, you yourself did and it made you famous, you - by your own confession - the not so very amazing James Randi. Whereas, to keep the friendly banter going, I am amazing and you will be among the first of those whom I amaze without tricks up my sleeze - hence the amazing.
Now I would not really describe myself as a qigong master, more philosopher, though energy time is certainly something in which I am proficient, I mean techniques that involve spirit and qi (- an east west point of interest is 'zero point energy' is science's name for what the sages of all the ages have called qi or ki or whatever word you want to use, further, the 'zero point field' is described by science as ubiquitous, unitary and isotropic, a potentially endless source of energy, thus look in true scripture, which is certainly of course not Christian, or indeed much of what claims to be Buddhist or Hindu, but look into the words of the great in these movements and you will find that what is called 'space' also fits to the point, and the only point of comparison I actually draw here, of similarity in wording...). In some sense the the pettier of my abilities happen to be those which permit, what I believe to be the most rigorous and clear cut experiment you will have ever conducted a la 'challenge' (- your homeopathy victory fell foul of the reasoning rut I described above, it is far more subtle, because far more natural, but for a while, I won't convince you of that, so lets leave it there). I can by means of spirit, qi then the nervous system produce at will probably all chemicals that science finds in the body, but I have only investigated so far as to know that, at will I can produce dopamine, serotonin, epiphrine, norepiphrine, acetycholine, GABA, glutamate, glycine and recently calcium. Now as far as I am aware you will look in vain in the annuls of scientific and medical research for such capacity, indeed some of these 'neurostransmitters' and chemicals are not to be found anywhere near where the illusive 'consciousness' is believed to reign. Thus in summa, this is not only not ordinary, it is not even extraordinary as far as science is concerned, its a myth, a lie, false, are you agreeing?
The above brings me to the next point, you are of course at liberty to say no I don't believe that this is 'supernatural' or 'paranormal' or whatever word you want to use, and as I have made previous investigations of this nature, Krammer dealt with me, thus I am somewhat fearful that you make take this line, as when I approached Krammer, he said yes to the first proposal and experimental design and then no to the second. I shall here pretend for a while to be bemused as to why, the first experiment involved your favoured 'double-blind' cueing for my willing of 'neurotransmitters' (- blood drawn on my prompt - spectroscopic analysis of the sample, and comparison with a 'base-line' to see if there is significant difference between the levels of x,y.z when not meditating appropriately and when meditating for say z), whilst exhibiting none of the 'alpha and beta EEG' activity of the ordinary waking subject - to this Krammer cried crank. And because I am not a crank or a fool I went out and brought an EEG machine, and found that, not only was there an absence of 'alpha I and beta', but also 'alpha II and III and theta' (- and I guess delta also, but my machine doesn't support that 'frequency'), and knowing that all ordinary men would have to be dead for this to be the case, I contacted Krammer again to ask if an absence of such activity, of all five, whilst performing the practical activities would be deemed 'supernatural' or 'paranormal', he said no, and I guess may be it was the fact I had seemed to have lessened my claim, or perhaps he got to carried away in that way so easy for your kind of reason, and shouted victory before he'd thought about the matter, as I here ask you, what do you think, supernatural or not supernatural, bearing in mind it is not natural to any ordinary man?
Now I wish to change the nature of my challenge yet again and just do the 'neurotransmitters', because though I have managed video footage of the absence of activity of lower frequencies, I am not at present confident of my ability to hold my meditative equilibrium in the face of a gaggle of willful sceptics, and as the clause that pertained to success/failure involved a categorical with regard to EEG activity, I'd be a fool to try and pursue that avenue right now. I suppose what I'm getting at was Krammer was being a bit petty, because I reckon had two people proposed each element separately, you'd have personally taken them both on, eh? My opinion however, of the more significant of the two elements, in the sense of the most readily perceivable as having potential for medical application (- though very few in all the world could do as I do, there are many psychological techniques, and practical regimens that can be devised for the treatment of so many diseases, one close to my heart, Parkinson's - my step father has it, but of course he wouldn't believe me trustworthy with such a claim without evidence, which of course I can easily get, but a million dollars does not come with it). I haven't as yet obtained spectroscopic evidence of my ability to produce the pleasure chemicals, or the autonomic, sub-conscious fight or flight chemical or all the others, but I have arranged to set this in motion, and London England is where the independent lab is situated. I only bring this up, because there is a problem with regard to what the definition of 'significance' is to be, as I don't deal in 'quantities' or 'external' verification, but feelings and internal intensities, and other things far more subtle, so how can I say thus and thus, especially as I am completely ignorant of what is considered the normal fluctuations or concentrations of these chemicals for a man sat in a chair winking at a doctor occasionally.
Now the above matter I appreciate you'd perhaps rather think about after I sent a signed notorised contract, as well as the experimental design, of which I am well capable, and above all want it to be perceived as 'objective' for the aforementioned trust reason, as well as a winning strike at the heart of science, because spirit, qi according to the clockwork view of the universe is well what? And so I suppose, are you truly prepared to put your money where your, as I said, big, though perhaps respected mouth is: bearing in mind that I am capable of what no other ordinary or extraoardinary man is, indeed is this not the definition of 'supernatural'? I await your answer with interest, and by the way I will not go away, so show the metal that you have, and take me on, and I won't go to the lab to do my own preliminary trial, and while I'm here, would it be possible, given an adequately rigorous experimental design (reptitious production perhaps?), to skip the prelininary because it will cost a moderately poor man quite a lot of money to set this up?

=============================================

Yet another request that JREF "skip the preliminary". And so it goes.

[KRAMER]

Dear Mr. Randi, 'tirade', no, but anyway a proposal:

By means of spirit, qi, and then the nervous system I can produce whenever I choose, dopamine, serotonin, epiphrine, norepiphrine, acetycholine, glutamate, GABA, glycine. To my knowledge this is not a capacity ordinary men are capable of, nor I believe will you find its like in the annuls of all scientific or medical literature, thus it occurred to offer myself up to your 'challenge' under something like the following conditions:

1. Double blind cueing of a selection of the above.

2. When satisfied that the intensity of sensation is sufficient indication of a 'significant' increase of a cued 'neurotransmitter',
I would wink at the doctor or medical professional to cue them to draw a sample of blood, and so on with the rest.

3. Spectroscopic analysis of all the samples would need to be conducted on an ng/ml basis, and perhaps a 'base-line' sample drawn that was tested for the 'resting levels' of all the above, so as the levels found in the samples drawn under the experimental conditions could be compared, and 'significance' determined.

4. Success being a significant increase of the relevant chemical in all experimental samples when compared with the 'base-line', failure being deemed if so much as one is found to be insignificant.

Thus do you believe me to be lying, deluded or whatever, if yes, then shall I send a notorised contract forthwith with a more thorough delineation of the experimental conditions with a view to duel for your cash

[KRAMER]

Again, no application, and clearly no intention of sending one -

=============================================

Dear James,

I Claim Your $1,000,000 Prize!!!

Please find attached results of my recent "RetroPsychoKinesis Experiment Log Report" - "PENDULUM" experiment, which shows "HIGHER THAN CHANCE" results of "105" & "55"!

http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/

TWO SPECIFIC INSTANCES OF MY "FREEZING" THE ABOVE "PENDULUM" ON COMPUTER

"SCREEN" USING JUST "THE POWER OF MY MIND"!!!

I can "FREEZE" the above "PENDULUM" on computer "SCREEN" in front of any witnesses that you care to send to me. Thus "PROVING" my "PSYCHIC ABILITY". Therefore I Claim your $1,000,000 Prize.

Thank you James.

Yours Sincerely,

Andrew S****.
************
London.
E** 1**
United Kingdom.

===========================================

I've replied to this inquiry by directing this fellow to the Challenge section (and rules) on the JREF website and inviting him to apply, while advising him not to do so unless he is confident that he can provide a demonstration that would support his claim, and making him aware of the fact that anecdotal evidence is not acceptable, and will not be considered.

How's THAT for a run-on sentence?

[KRAMER]

I have been writing for years that there is proof of paranormal in
Townsville Australia.

There are over 1,000 witnesses of paranormal living here that have called me 'supernatural' for over 3 years.

If a public offer is made by James Randi to investigate the claim I will contribute $1000 towards travel expenses. Proof of paranormal will be provided ON SIGHT, including perfect mind reading. You will hear my mind moments before you see me, there are 10,000 witnesses to this alone. Some power that always makes me lose poker!

If I'm wrong, you get a partially funded down under tour.
I look forward to hearing from you, I can make the contribution with a little notice.

Graham C********

============================================


I wrote and told this fellow to go to our website, read the Challenge rules, and APPLY if he feels he meets the Challenge criteria.

I tell this to a lot of people, most of whom I never hear from again.

[KRAMER]

my influence is we say not very hard, so that you would will be that three number`s of the six would will be, I need to develop but the mind, two or three always no longer are chanceso that I concentrate myself, but at the moment they verify that what I say is truth, if I need the money, maybe in months already it can influence in the six number in the bingo.

we are in contact with the me. carlos.

==========================================

That's for sure.

[KRAMER]

My name is Wayne M****

I have a question, please just take one moment to look over this email.

I have a talent to be able to distrupt TV screens and Computer screens, I am having a hard time to Expose this gift.

I have wrote GUINNESS WORLD BOOK RECORDS.

I have wrote Ripleys Believe it or not.

I have wrote churches ministries, nothing.

I saw your site by looking up the word paranormal.

I have gone into Wallmarts Target and made TVs distrupt, beacuse you must have proof meaning a witnesses for GUINNESS WORLD BOOK RECORDS.

I have friends that will swear to you I can and have done this and still can.

Please I have proof just contact me, or leave me a message so I can get back to you,

here is my contact information.

Wayne M****
**********
Napa California 94***

telephone number 707 *** 9791

email waynemor****@*****

I will give you all information you need of other contacts whom have witnessed this.



Thank you,
Wayne M****

[athon]

You know, up until now I thought I was the only one (as a teacher in east-end London) who willingly got paid to be abused every day.

Kramer, you now have my condolences. I see that I was wrong.

Athon

[Ashles]

Im not being silly Ive five years advanced theatre a drama study at LAMDA behind me.and I am a successful property developer in London.If it wasnt for lure of being able to afford a sunny home in Florida I couldnt be bothered to do this. As my mentor said You should just say Bollocks to them I didnt ask for this talent I was born like this and so are thousand of others... Do I get the application posted? David
And why, exactly does "five years advanced theatre a drama study at LAMDA behind me" exclude you from talking nonsense?
In fact it sems to be almost built in.

And here's a little factoid for all the kiddies out there:
"a successful property developer in London" will always, without fail have access to a printer.
If he doesn't he isn't really "a successful property developer in London".
Those guys need to produce so many contracts, letters, forms, budgets etc.
Not having a printer for more than a day would be unthinkable.

"As my mentor said" they've all got mentors haven't they. Funny these mentors never apply for the challenge.

"I didnt ask for this talent I was born like this and so are thousand of others" - wow, thousands of people who could win the challenge? It seems so odd it hasn't been won.

Plus if you don't want the talent - Don't Use It!
Don't write to complete strangers about it!
Don't apply for international prizes for demonstrating it!

"Do I get the application posted?"

Bollocks do you.

A "successful property developer" can afford 7 minutes in an internet cafe.

Such rich fantasy worlds do some of these people live in...

[Doubt]

Originally posted by KRAMER
My name is Wayne M****

I have a question, please just take one moment to look over this email.

I have a talent to be able to distrupt TV screens and Computer screens, I am having a hard time to Expose this gift.


*SNIP*


Thank you,
Wayne M****

I can do that. All you need is a magnet and a television with a conventional picture tube.

However, it will ruin color sets. Old black-and-white sets recover quite well.

[KRAMER]

Do I get my application? and I notice in one section of the website as I suggested claims should be talked through first with an organisation rep so that the written protocols are accurate and unambiguous. Its as you like it with you lot...I also notice on your site the fact that you state no person forwarned about the quake actually I warned Glasgow seimic centre last year of an impending huge quake I didnt say when didnt say where not scientific enough does not have to be when it happens to manifest itself in your own house !! Thats considered a phenomena where I come from . Instead of being so cock ahoop at catching a few poxy charletans why dont you sound as though you would help rather than hinder the people who really have a talent but perhaps cannot tune it or direct it properly. If you sounded as though you would be pleased to see something happen I would give it a shot... I just wonder whether it would be better for the whole lot of you to actually keep the staus quo.........Are there any benefits in foresight? It would keep you out of an arguement... who said that?.................

=============================================

I've had it with this guy. He'll get my courtesy when/if he applies.
Until then, not being an applicant, this is what he gets:

=============================================

Hello Again David,

You warned Glasgow "seimic" centre last year of "an impending huge quake" but you didn't say when? What a shame.

You'd have HAD to say when, and WHERE, too, if you wanted such a prediction to qualify you for the JREF Challenge.

I'm so happy to hear that's considered a phenomenon where you come from, but where WE come from (the real world, I mean), it's utter nonsense. Sorry, too, to hear you're unable to "tune in or direct it properly". That must be tough to live with.

And according to your email, you'd "give it a shot" if you thought I REALLY WANTED TO SEE IT? Very funny. I've only hear THAT one a thousand times before, so what's one more belly-laugh before I leave for the day...

Despite your assertion to the contrary, the JREF hinders no one in their attempts to prove their paranormal claim.

Adhere to the Challenge rules, and DEMONSTRATE it. We wait with baited breath for something that YOU, for one, clearly have no intention of doing.

This is my final email to you, Mr. Successful London Developer Who Doesn't Even Have Access To A Working Printer. You're full of hogwash and so is your claim. I won't waste another millisecond on you, or engage you in your attempts to make us jump through hoops for your amusement.

Goodbye.

-Kramer, JREF

p.s. of course, you WILL get a reply, and my courtesy, if you ever APPLY for the Challenge, insteading of harrassing us.

[KRAMER]

I guess your right. Until I can come up with more solid evidence, I don't think I should bother you anymore. I just don't think you guys should be so absoloutely positive that everyone that wants to talk with you about the possibliity are fools from the start, because as much as you can say people delude themselves into things by using such and such tricks, your not taking into account that you can come up with as many excuses for how they "luckily" guessed something or deduced something even if that's NOT how they came across the answer. You just assume they made it up, or did some educated guessing, (althogh its strange you can assume they go from deluded idiots to intellectuals minupulating educated guessing so quickly) You just assume they got lucky and they just assume they got it psychically.

I read over some of the responses you and Mr. Randi sent to people, and although some of those people were way off there rocker, and deserved a bit of tongue and cheek, others you guys were just plain rude too, and if they have been deluded by socitial happenstance it's not any fault of theres. When I first emailed you guys it was because a friend who is a scientist who
was showing me Penn n Teller stuff said it would be a good idea, and I said "I dunno. I don't want to. Those guys look like they'll not even give people a chance, and seeing something psychically is not like an on and off switch" and I was right. He said "Well read for me and I'll tell you if your deluded or not" and after I read for him and got a bunch of stuff right he sat me in front of the computer and made me email you guys.

So thats why I emailed in the first place and why I've changed my mind about making a claim (or at least trying out for the money right away) partially cause I'm scared that I am deluded, and partially because I'm scared that even if I did get it right it really wouldn't be a fun thing to get famous for. As for the snow thing, I wanted to tell you something just personally so that when it happens you'd hopefully understand I wasn't deluded... but I
understand now that it's not enough for you. I'll need to come up with something a little harder to "guess" at, which will be very difficult seeing as I don't raelly control when I get psychic visions. I'll have to take some time out to think about what I can do that can be an absoloute solidfied sort of proof for you guys. My timing is usually always a little bit off too, so doing dates and times is difficult, so I'll have to find something that only happens once. I wasn't aware it snows in Talahasse often. I'm not a weather man. I simply saw a vision of myself holding my hand out and there was snow.. everywhere. So then I thought.. "Ha! It does not snow here very often! Maybe that will convince them when it happens!" but I guess not.

Also, After seeing all the ridiculous hub bub over stem cell research and people referring to it as Frakenstien type research, when it could be a huge help to the world, it made me realize in a time that things seem to be getting a reflux of conservatism, it might not be such a great idea to come out in the open and try to prove I'm psychic to everyone, and this I'm sure you understand becuase you've prob. dealt with your fair share of problems that occur from such things in your lifetime.

You guys simply want solidfied proof and psychic work is not an exact science really. Not from what I can tell really. You just get random images that help people along, and sometimes you do get it wrong cause your not getting a message at all and your forcing yourself to see one to impress whoever else is asking you to see something psychially, which is when you start imaging stuff up in your head, and that's at the point when I feel like a person is deluding themselves... but I'm sure you'll disagree, and
most likely disregard everything I have to say here.

But I do have a point in sending this. Until I can better prove that psychic ability exists I've decided to quit my job at Universal as a psychic and start working on my artwork more, because I don't believe it's right to charge people after thinking about it for awhile. At first I thought even if I am deluding myself the people feel better after getting a reading, it's just like talking to a counceler, they open up from what I see. Even if somehow I'm making alot of lucky guesses or miniuplating them unknowingly at
least Im giving them some hope in there lives right? but then I saw the P n T show and started thinking of it there way. How it's not right to mess with peoples memories, and that if your not 100% sure your psychic that that could be just what your doing to these people, and to see that these people are not just spending there money at theme parks but they are wasting
hundreds of dollars on commercial "psychics" that are just paid
entertainers... blah.

It just disheartened me a bit. I remembered back to when I didnt charge and I just did it for people I knew in need of counceling and it made me sad that I couldn't say that it wasn't true that people who claim to be psychic are just after peoples money because I was charging (well the company was charging, I was just working for them) and I used to not charge at all and I
wouild have been able to say it a few years ago, and now I'm to be compared to those con artists? Its just not fun to think about.. and I'm not like that. I would never intentionally take peoples money knowning that I'm cheating them. I joined professionally in hopes of learning how to read better, but I found I steadily got worse doing it while charging people for it and having to stick to a timer. I got better at making educated guesses, and I could tell when I was seeing something psychically and when I'd have
to make something up to entertain the guest... but.. (and yes there is still a point here, I'm not just babbling like a loon.. well.. maybe just a bit.=D he he) there was one thing I always did notice was funny about doing readings.

Other psychics claimed to be "mediums".. as in talking to the dead..and I could never do that. They would try to show me "how" and it wouldn't work. I meditated on it along time wondering if perhaps I just didn't have an "open channel" for that but have come to the conclusion that it simply is a farce.
When people pass on I believe that they simply do not exist on this world anymore. Where they go? I dunno. But it's not here... and I know you said you guys can't be bothered with theories or wot not, that they'll just be disregarded.. but while I was trying to come up with a prediction that would be better proof to you guys without forcing up something from my imagination I finally picked up on something. That although there are many reasons for your paranormal research. that for some reason it is the most
important for you to uncover is that mediums are a complete falsity. They are deluding themselves and other peoples, and distorting past memories with there "visions" in a way that is damaging to people to the point where it is hindering them from coping with the fact that there loved one is gone.

I don't know why I feel this way, but I feel it is important that you and Mr. Randi know this. I am sure you already "know it" through reason and deduction and scientific evidence, but I needed to let him know that is how I feel as well because I feel empathically that this is somethign important to him. That I am not some extremist claiming this and that, but to please keep an open mind because I would like to take some time out to figuire out a better way to prove that there is such thing as psychic ability. It is not
as impressive as some people proclaim it to be, and I am absoloutely certain you can cannot connect to people who have passed on, because they no longer are on the same energy field.. but I am almost certain that there is psychic ability to an extent... it is just a matter of proving it. I don't care about the prize money anymore, I would just like to be able to send you
some more of my experiments if you would let me, in a few months when I've come up with some better stuff. I am now fully aware that vaguely predicting weather won't cut it, and now that I think about it, that yes, that must come off as absoloute silliness to you, even if that is what I've seen... it's not enough for you.

I know that I will only do well if I'm not nervous about it, so I am hoping you will maybe humour me, (or yourselves) and in a couple of months be alright with accepting some more predictions from me via email that will be hopefully less vaugue and more to your liking. No stakes. I won't be expecting any sort of rewards or filling out that app. because it says it needs to be in front of witnesses and like I said before I'd rather not have this be a public thing. Since you do believe I am deluded, you probably
understand I'd rather not make a fool out of myself if thats the case, and waste my time and yours meeting up in person. I just want to either help the research along with my findings, or help myself become less deluded if that's the case, and you simply telling me to "wake up" isn't the sort of thing that will cut it for me after practicing this for so many years. Just as much as you would like something much more solidfied in evidence to prove
it's real because of all the information you've gathered, I'd like something much more solidfied to disprove it...

Sincerest apologies for taking up so much of your time, Steph/Celeste

[KRAMER]

You just cant accept what people say can you.Its noticable in virtually all your conversations.... somebody says some thing and you say no thats not the reality ours is the true or the better reality.....strange thinking matey and Im still waiting for my claim form as stated in the application procedure. One stamped addressed envelope one application in return... then I fill it in post it and the process con tinues I really cant understand why you didnt just send me a form its not a power game.. and I didnt say hinders I asked if you relly where interested in seeing some one prove there point.Dave

==============================================

As promised in my previous email response to his nonsense, I will not reply.

Unless, of course, he sends an application, which he could do with little effort if he had any intention of becoming an applicant.

p.s. I wonder if he's now going to try to say that he sent an SAE, as this email suggests, sort of, kind of, maybe. I dunno. I've had it.

[KRAMER]

Sorry I didnt see that you wanted to conclude this brief coversation. Oh well it just goes to show you should always read things through properly espcially contracts. I do not think that any one will ever see that 1million even though there are plenty of gifted and undoubtably genuine pshicics out there. Im going to see Derek Acora live at Croydon in London soon perhaps one of your cohorts should vist and report.

=============================================

Again, there'll be no reply to this email, but as a note to forum members...

We've heard of Derek Acorah, very recently. He is apparently stating on various UK forums that he has applied for the JREF Challenge and been rejected.

The fact is that he never applied, but instead harrassed Randi (via email) in a vain attempt to alter the Challenge rules. This was prior to my arrival here. It's so sad that Randi has spent so many hundreds of hours mired in pointless, never-ending correspondences with people like this, instead of working on a new book. I hope to shield him from this kind of nonsense, so that he can offer the world a new book sometime in the not too distant future, as is his current plan. Sadly, many such emails somehow still get through to him, and although he forwards the great majority of them directly to my desk without offering any personal response, he still manages to waste a good deal of time on the few that he feels up to reading from beginning to end.

But, I digress.

Once Randi was convinced that Mr. Acorah was nowhere near comprehending the words "WE WILL NOT ALTER THE RULES FOR YOU", he stopped responding to him. Clearly, the man, like so many others, had no intention of being tested under acceptable conditions, and wanted every safeguard to be discarded in favor of his own, flimsy protocol.

[JimTheBrit]

Originally posted by KRAMER
I have been writing for years that there is proof of paranormal in
Townsville Australia.

There are over 1,000 witnesses of paranormal living here that have called me 'supernatural' for over 3 years.

If a public offer is made by James Randi to investigate the claim I will contribute $1000 towards travel expenses. Proof of paranormal will be provided ON SIGHT, including perfect mind reading. You will hear my mind moments before you see me, there are 10,000 witnesses to this alone. Some power that always makes me lose poker!

If I'm wrong, you get a partially funded down under tour.
I look forward to hearing from you, I can make the contribution with a little notice.

Graham C********

============================================


I wrote and told this fellow to go to our website, read the Challenge rules, and APPLY if he feels he meets the Challenge criteria.

I tell this to a lot of people, most of whom I never hear from again.

Graham C, AKA Herc.

From Randi's March 15th 2002 commentary (http://www.randi.org/jr/031502.html):
"Barry [Williams (of the Australian Skeptics)] also provides this news item about a correspondent who uses the name "Herc Ules" (brilliant!) in his posts to me, which are virulent, vague, and just plain weird. (So what else is new, Randi?) Judging from this news, I may be spared some nasty stuff, at least for a while. Says Barry:

I believe you also heard from this chap. He wouldn't be put off but kept pestering us with incomprehensible claims. I tried to let him down gently, but when he started making threats, I had to let the police know and they took it very seriously and quickly tracked him down. I doubt he would have carried out his threat, but you can't be sure. How would I have felt if I had just shrugged him off and next week heard of someone being poisoned after eating Dick Smith peanut butter.

Dick Smith, very well-known in Australia, is a leading supporter of the skeptical (pardon me, sceptical!) movement there, and one of his business interests is producing food products.

Australian Broadcasting News: A man charged with threatening to poison food produced by Dick Smith has been refused bail in the Rockhampton Magistrates Court in central Queensland. Graham Andrew Cooper, 30, is charged with trying extort $100,000 from the Australian Sceptics Association. Cooper appeared in court this morning charged with stalking, extortion and sending threatening e-mails. The court was told Cooper sent e-mails to Barry Williams from the Australian Sceptics Association, which has offered $100,000 to anyone who can prove psychic powers. The police prosecutor said Cooper claimed the association refused to test him. It is alleged the e-mails said that Dick Smith owed him $100,000 and that he would put rat sack into as much Dick Smith food as he could lay his hands on. The court was told Cooper is a paranoid schizophrenic and police said the threats were not carried out. Cooper will be held in custody until his next court appearance in May.

The term "rat sack" refers to rat poison. These colorful Aussie expressions....!"

Article referring to the case from theage.com.au (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/08/1015365742538.html?oneclick=true)

[Kimpatsu]

Hi, folks, Kramer.
I must admit I am constantly trying to get woo-woos to take the challenge, and am always beset with excuses. For example:
Case 1.
A New Zealander running a TCM/homeopathy/TT clinic. As soon as I explained (all communication was over the internet) that this is stuff and nonsense, he gave me back a string of foul-languaged abuse. Then another woman of whom I'd never heard started lambasting me, claiming to be a disinterested party, although she, too was in New Zeasland. Instead, the man claimed it was coincidence and kept insisting that I be tested (for what, I wonder?), whereas the woman agreed then that she, too, would be tested, but... as she charged up to NZ$800 an hour for treatments, she would have to be paid this amount. I offered even to pay said amount out of my own money, on the priviso that she would have to pay me double if she failed the preliminary challenge. In stead, she told me to "f@ck off". The man stopped writing to me, but I have since tracked down his clinic's website. Guess what? Far from not knowing the woman, they are partners in the clinic! So, not only are they woo-woo scam artists, they're also liars, too.
Look forward to mroe cases coming soon...

[Stitch]

Originally posted by KRAMER
Again, no application, and clearly no intention of sending one -

=============================================

Dear James,

I Claim Your $1,000,000 Prize!!!

Please find attached results of my recent "RetroPsychoKinesis Experiment Log Report" - "PENDULUM" experiment, which shows "HIGHER THAN CHANCE" results of "105" & "55"!

http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/

TWO SPECIFIC INSTANCES OF MY "FREEZING" THE ABOVE "PENDULUM" ON COMPUTER

"SCREEN" USING JUST "THE POWER OF MY MIND"!!!

I can "FREEZE" the above "PENDULUM" on computer "SCREEN" in front of any witnesses that you care to send to me. Thus "PROVING" my "PSYCHIC ABILITY". Therefore I Claim your $1,000,000 Prize.

Thank you James.

Yours Sincerely,

Andrew S****.
************
London.
E** 1**
United Kingdom.

===========================================

I've replied to this inquiry by directing this fellow to the Challenge section (and rules) on the JREF website and inviting him to apply, while advising him not to do so unless he is confident that he can provide a demonstration that would support his claim, and making him aware of the fact that anecdotal evidence is not acceptable, and will not be considered.

How's THAT for a run-on sentence?

And from the web site he uses:

If the pendulum appears, but does not swing smoothly from side to side (for example, it stops and starts apparently at random, or the speed with which it's swinging abruptly changes), other tasks running on your computer may be using resources Java needs to do smooth animation.


The pendulum stops quite frequently on my rather overworked and aging laptop - can I claim too?

[KRAMER]

Well, this U.K. joker by the name of David Plows (previously known simply as "#2") has now begun harrassing Randi. If there was some method of insuring that Randi would never see stuff like this, I'd be a much happier Challenge guy.

==============================================

Hope your fire heads are working well... you might just be able to save Kramers pants from detonating......you chose well there did he used to work with Jeffrey Kostick by any chance? Toodle pip BEAN..must dash I have a show to see..He should have reading lessons you know.quite often misses the point..

==============================================

It's curious to me how some of these people can be so, so sad, while managing somehow illiciting zero sympathy from me.

Is this a good thing?

[KRAMER]

Apparently, this fellow who has been signing his emails GRAY COOPER is actually GRAHAM COOPER, an applicant from 2001 whose file I have just connected to these emails.

He is most definitely schizophrenic. He has also been banned from various forums, and has had restraining orders issued against him due to the excesses in his campaign against Australian Skeptics.

I will make a new thread on him NOW, in the Challenge Applications section.

[KRAMER]

Snow Snow Snow! ^_^

So much snow it'll snow in Florida!

Please let yourself believe Mr. Kramer!

- Steph/Celeste

=============================================

Whatever.

[KRAMER]

I wrote to this inquirer making vague claims about a perpetual motion device to contact us again once he has a working model for testing. There have been numerous emails back and forth between us, and I have reminded him in each of my responses to him that he will NOT be considered an applicant until he applies.

So, he's not even an applicant yet, but he's talking lawyers.

Here's what I got in return:

============================================

REPLY I have one right now which is production ready and establishes evolutionary totally new electrical physics the first in 130 years. If so that is a Nobel level occurrence. But the Tech. center will conduct verification testing next week and contact you. What about the following mail Randi had with someone else? Because Randi Stated in mail last year when a die hard skeptic contacted him about my device and he said it would qualify as a consideration.

Understand if what is stated below is correct I and fierce legal team intend to go after Randi's creditability by using the press and the prestige of the Tech. center if he attempts any weasel out games. I'm not a Randi fan because of the attitudes he has displayed in mails I have exchanged with him.

Group, Well, mostly bad news. It seems that the person from James Randi's office who wrote me stating that a device that works against the current laws of physics qualifies, was in error.

James Randi wrote me himself to clarify this point. He seems to feel that if it is a "scientific discovery" versus a paranormal effect that it doesn't apply to his prize offer. Although I must concede that his challenge specifically states "paranormal," I still think my device should be applicable to the contest criteria in that it is paranormal in that it doesn't do what is now considered "normal."

Of course the Webster's dictionary defines "paranormal" as: not scientifically explainable: SUPERNATURAL.

But his contest requires a rigorous scientific revue of the claims. Is this not a contradiction? If a phenomena can be rigorously testable, by definition isn't it a scientifically proven fact?

Also, since my concept is not explainable under the current "scientific" laws of physics, isn't it therefore not
explainable scientifically? Doesn't that make it "paranormal" by definition?Therefore, if I can prove my claims, shouldn't I be elligble for the contest?

I wonder what a lawyer might say? Any lawyers out there?

Eric

===========================================

I got so mad at the last joker who pulled the litigious card, I'm prepared to make up for it with this one.

Watch me maintain my calm, folks. I won't be riled again.

============================================

Dear Sir,

The million bucks is awarded for a successful demonstration of paranormal phenomenon, and NOT for new scientific discoveries.

I will try to explain this as simply as possible:

A discovery for which there is NO scientific explanation - Paranormal.

A scientific discovery for which there IS an explanation - NOT Paranormal.

So, if you have something that actually works, and there is no rational, scientific explanation for how it has acheived "working" status, that WOULD be paranormal, and would qualify you for the JREF Challenge.

But, if you have come up with something new that CAN be explained, or provides a new understanding of a previously unknown realm of science, that is NOT paranormal, and does NOT qualify you for the JREF Challenge.

-Kramer, JREF Paranormal Claims Dept.

[KRAMER]

This exchange has been going on for a while, too...I keep telling her to apply, she keeps asking questions.

============================================

Suppose I could use a medium to make accurate predictions with a mirror or crystal ball.

How many instances would I have to make to to substantiate that I have psychic powers. I have always had the power to make bold and accurate predictions that others know are real and not trickery.Not only doI have the ability to see coming events with names and dates I can explain scientifically how this is done. wessman

============================================

[I]Dear Wessman,

We do not discuss or negotiate test protocols before having received a duly notarized JREF Paranormal Challenge application.

If you wish to submit one, you can print it out via our website (www.randi.org) and sign it before a notary before sending it here, to my attention. Follow the Challenge rules precisely, and your application wll be processed upon receipt.

-Kramer, JREF Paranormal Claims Dept.

p.s. First, you DEMONSTRATE. Then, if your demonstration is successful, you may also EXPLAIN. Please be advised that until you have successfully demonstrated your claim, we have no interest in your theories, hypothesis, or explanations.

[KRAMER]

This inquirer seems to have temporarily dropped his litigious tone in favor of one more deriding.

============================================

Me thinks duck and cover may be the wise posture main stream science may want to seriously think of adopting. Otherwise known as closing the lid on their box and locking it from the inside. Because within a matter of days vast current thought to be absolute set in stone understandings regarding vast electrical and internal combustion operational dynamics will be basically blown out of the water.

Then sank under the waves of change. IF so it may totally suck to be in those fields. I have world class Engineers probably heads above any of the skeptical clowns on the Net presently in town and they are involved with a Major Tech. entity also here. The end result of the encounters will be the down fall of classical science as the realm is presently known . So says the soon to be great you know who. Yes the fat lady will sing.

No reply mails from the goof ball moronic jerk off types who think the prediction will not occur will be responded to.

=============================================

He needn't worry. We won't reply.

[HutchTheCrutch]

Hi Kramer, any chance of posting the messages received from Mr Acora ?? We over here in the UK believe that he is nearing cult hero status especially for his appearences on Most Haunted, the show that likes to say "Did you hear that?" and "It's ok Ivvy he's a benevolent spirit.".

As true believers in the art of pre-predictionism, I and my friends spend many a happy Most Haunted Live weekend predicting at what point Mr A is going to hear something, see something and get posessed, and guess what .... we're very nearly 100% correct every show!! We believe that our powers come from the spirit world of Bells, Jamesons, Glenfidich and our spirit guide Jack Daniels leads us through the complexities of MHL vigils.

So we'd love to hear more so that he can be elevated to the state he deserves of being a True Cult.

Cheers,
HTC

[KRAMER]

I keep responding to this email inquirer in identical fashion, as follows:

Sir, we are not interested in theories or hypothesis. Please contact us the moment you have a working model that will validate your claim.

He simply ignores me, though, and just keeps sending stuff like this:

=============================================

This is my idea for the free energy device it uses gravity, and can power itself by heating the capillary action sheets from the energy it gains from the liquid dropping. This is my invention I keep all the rights to the invention. It is not your invention. Can i win 1 million dollars

I have got a new idea for an invention. It is a cyclical gravity greenhouse liquid capillary action energy generator. The idea is that the device uses the same ammount of liquid over and over again due to evaporaton, condensation and capillary acton to generate electricity. It works like an oil wick using water excpet the energyu is genearted as at the vapour turns to liquid, .
The device consists of a liquid chamber, an evaporation chamber, capillary action sheets, condensation collectors, turbines, and liquid.
The capillary acton sheets draw liquid up from the liquid chamber into the evaporation chamber at normal temperatures. then the tip of the capillary action sheets in the evaporation chamber are heated to a temperature where they will evaporate the liquid. As liquid evaporates from the sheets, The capillary actiopn sheets draw more liquid from the liquid cham,ber to replace the liquid lost. The liquid is draw natrually upwards. When the liquid evaporates from the capillary action sheets it enters the evaporation cvhamber. The evaporation chamber is of normal tempertures. It is not the evaporation chamber thet causes evaporation, it is the capillary action sheets. The evaporation chamber is of low temperatures to encourage condensation. Only The capillary actiopn sheets need to be heated. Then teh condensatyion falls into condensation collectors, and is used to power turbines before falling back into the liquid chamber. So the same liquid is recycled.
This is a new invention. Just becayse it uses capillary action that does not make it the same as a solar sill, or paper.
They key is capillary action lifting liquid up for free.
The only heating required is on the ti[ of the capillary action sheets, which can be done by heaters or by solar rays or any other device.
When calculations are made for this device remember it is not a solar heater. Capillary action is key to this device.
Tghis deviceis consistent, Other froms of renewmable nergy are incosnsitent because solar energy stops working ibn times of night, high cloud cover, pollution to sky. Wind power stops working at extreme wind speeds and low or no wind speeds. Hydro stops working in droughts, or when river levels control issues restrict use of hydro power.
This device can power itself.
By the energy gained from dropping the liquid being used to evaporate the liquid. Or can be heated using other heating systems.
Key for diagram.
1 Evaporation Chamber
2 Condensation collecoter
3, 4, 6 Capillary action sheets.
5 Turbine
7 Liquid
8 Liquid Chamber

=============================================

Whatever.

[KRAMER]

Originally posted by HutchTheCrutch
Hi Kramer, any chance of posting the messages received from Mr Acora?
Cheers, HTC

I've received NO communication from Mr. Acorah.

However, in recet weeks I've had numerous emails inquiring about him, asking if he is a JREF Challenge applicant (he is NOT), and asking if we've had any direct contact with him (we haven't).

He's never contacted us, to my knowledge.

[MESchlum]

Originally posted by KRAMER
This is a new invention. Just becayse it uses capillary action that does not make it the same as a solar sill, or paper.
They key is capillary action lifting liquid up for free.
The only heating required is on the ti[ of the capillary action sheets, which can be done by heaters or by solar rays or any other device.
When calculations are made for this device remember it is not a solar heater. Capillary action is key to this device.
Tghis deviceis consistent, Other froms of renewmable nergy are incosnsitent because solar energy stops working ibn times of night, high cloud cover, pollution to sky. Wind power stops working at extreme wind speeds and low or no wind speeds. Hydro stops working in droughts, or when river levels control issues restrict use of hydro power.
This device can power itself.

Emphasis mine.

Insert insane giggling here.

He's saying it has to be heated (first emphasis), and by an outside source at that (solar rays).

But it doesn't depend on outside sources (second emphasis).

I agree, answering this one is rather pointless - the amount of mental blinders used to contradict yourself that fast make you immune to argument anyway.

[KRAMER]

But surely you can see the device works. Build one yourself it is not simple to do. It is still my device, and i hold all rights.

==============================================

I gave up on this one days ago, but I'm giving up again, right now, just to see if it makes me feel any better.

[KRAMER]

How am i supposed to get over to Amercia and build the device. It is an easy device to make. This just seems a way of restricting chances. I cannot afford a turbine, or sheets of capillary action material or the equipment needed and i don't know where to get the stuff, you do so why not build it.
Why are rules needed.

=============================================

"Why are rules needed."

That's a good one.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by KRAMER
"Why are rules needed."

That's a good one.
Yeah; why don't we just repeal the law of gravity? It's so damn inconvenient at times... :p

[KRAMER]

Rules are needed for just this type of person.

I wonder when this will end? This just in....

=============================================

In other words you want to keep the money. I dont see why i should have to build the device, when you can too, this is just a way of you keeping the money. My device works. How on earth am i supposed to get over to Amercia. I don't have any money. The device works. It's not my fault you are obviously a conn artist. This is all just a big publicity stunt. Build tyhe device and allow my idea to proove you are not a conn artist.

=============================================

A- He has read the Challenge rules and is not capable of comprehending them.

B- He has no interest in reading the Challenge rules, so he never will.

C- He has read the Challenge rules but wants us to suspend them and follow his own aribtrarily set parameters.

D- He has no device, no claim, no life, and no desire to apply.

The most common correct answer would be C, but I fear that in this particular case, the correct answer can only be D.

However, the correct answer might also be ALL OF THE ABOVE.

[KRAMER]

Yup. It's ALL OF THE ABOVE...

============================================

Thanks a bunch only wealthy people need apply then So why do they need to bother anyway.

============================================

Why, indeed.

[KRAMER]

Yeesh Wow Holy Cow. This guy really will never stop.

=============================================

How am i supposed to buy turbines, capillary action sheets, the fact is any invention that achieves what your looking for will be expensive to build how can i afford that my theory works. But i can't afford turbines and the equipment needed. you will have the stuff at your labs.

=============================================

Now he's taken to answering questions I haven't even asked.

I haven't replied ANYTHING to his past 4 emails.

This really takes the cake; a guy who insists that the JREF build his contraption. Wow.

Amazing.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by KRAMER
you will have the stuff at your labs.
Yeah, Randi has a secret underground laboratory where he plots world domination.

[PixyMisa]

Well, it was secret, until now. :mad:

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by PixyMisa
Well, it was secret, until now. :mad:
What can I say, Pixy? I took some of Randi's truth serum by accident, and now I can't help revealing all his secrets...

[Gr8wight]

Has anyone told this guy his machine doesn't even qualify for the challenge?

[DaChew]

Originally posted by KRAMER
Yeesh Wow Holy Cow. This guy really will never stop.

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How am i supposed to buy turbines, capillary action sheets, the fact is any invention that achieves what your looking for will be expensive to build how can i afford that my theory works. But i can't afford turbines and the equipment needed. you will have the stuff at your labs.

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Now he's taken to answering questions I haven't even asked.

I haven't replied ANYTHING to his past 4 emails.

This really takes the cake; a guy who insists that the JREF build his contraption. Wow.

Amazing.


OK. Since he insists. I'll volunteer to build a model based on his crude drawing and parts list. Of course, in the highly unlikely event the thing actually works, I insist on sole US rights to the invention.

[PixyMisa]

The thing is, an actual working perpetual motion machine would be worth trillions of dollars.

Why do these guys think so small? Like the other one who claimed he could predict lotto numbers. He can predict lotto numbers and he's chasing the JREF million? Huh?

[DaChew]

OK, I built it over the weekend. It doesn't work. Guess he'll have to build his own because I must have done something wrong.

[Moose]

capillary action sheets

Untreated lumber?

[DaChew]

Originally posted by Moose
Untreated lumber?

I'm thinking Bounty paper towels. "The Quicker Picker-upper".

[Moose]

Good point. :D

My other guess would have been stalks of celery.

[KRAMER]

Thank you. I am not willing to spend money visiting your offices. If you really would like to know a real psychic I am inviting you to do in our way not in yours. And it cost you less. We are willing to demonstrate that this ability really exists to any one sincerely interested in psychic research not in participating in an spectacle with rules settled by a biased juror who is is not willing to concede any the prize and is only seeking for publicity.

Truly Yours

HT

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OK, thanks for the offer but we are NOT interested.

Please feel free to submit a Challenge application at any time, should you change your mind and agree to submit your claim to a proper test that would conclusively verify it. There is no judge or
"juror" in the JREF tests. Your claim either is real, or it is not. The test, which both yourself and the JREF would agree to, must be designed with the sole purpose of demonstrating your claim, and the results would be evident to all parties. No "judging" takes place. You yourself would determine what would constitute a successful test.

All that would remain is for you to DO IT.

-Kramer, JREF Paranormal Claims Dept.

[KRAMER]

To end our conversantion I quote from a book:
"Yo see, in your world it is very difficult to experience anything that you do not believe is possible. Even if it happens, you will deny it". "Even if you are looking at it you may not see it. Or you will look right at it and see it as something else, because you simple do not understand it"

I am psychic, you now, and I see which are your (Randi´s) real thoughts on this matter.

Bye.

HT

[Metullus]

I, too, must be psychic, because I think that I know what Randi and Kramer are thinking on this subject as well.

Anyone want to guess what they're thinking?

[Darat]

Originally posted by Metullus
I, too, must be psychic, because I think that I know what Randi and Kramer are thinking on this subject as well.

Anyone want to guess what they're thinking?

See Rule 8. ;)

[Metullus]

Yup, that too!:D

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Metullus
I, too, must be psychic, because I think that I know what Randi and Kramer are thinking on this subject as well.

Anyone want to guess what they're thinking?
Does it rhyme with 'glass mole'?

[KRAMER]

Your answer is a self-portrait of you and your organization. I am not a Simon el Mago, nor gay and arrogant.
I am a Philosphy B.A. from Loyola University.

-HT

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I didn't answer, though.

Whatever.

[jmercer]

ROFL! Of course you didn't answer, nor was in necessary... after all, HT proclaimed earlier: "I am psychic, you now, and I see which are your (Randi´s) real thoughts on this matter."

One must assume HT knew what your reply will be, and responded preemptively. ;) :D

[Metullus]

Originally posted by jmercer
ROFL! Of course you didn't answer, nor was in necessary... after all, HT proclaimed earlier: "I am psychic, you now, and I see which are your (Randi´s) real thoughts on this matter."

One must assume HT knew what your reply will be, and responded preemptively. ;) :D

Sort of gets me thinking. If HT knows Kramer's response, he really need not ask the question, huh? And, knowing Kramer's response means that he can respond to it, but, he does not actually need to post it because he already knows Kramer's response to that as well. And so on and so forth.

So, HT is debating Kramer, even if Kramer does not know it. Rather efficient, don't you think?

[KRAMER]

No, I will not apply. Yes, I would like to be tested, but only if there is no money reward at the other end. I am a single-minded person, and I prefer not to do the test work with a split or dual motivation. The single purpose, which I would like to focus on, is: To prove that astrology (if applied properly) actually works. Besides I cannot imagine any greater reward than having you (an opponent) recognize my research results. If no money is involved, then I am prepared to undergo the test I have described in my first email.

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Whatever.

[Timothy]

No, I will not apply. Yes, I would like to be tested, but only if there is no money reward at the other end. I am a single-minded person, and I prefer not to do the test work with a split or dual motivation. The single purpose, which I would like to focus on, is: To prove that astrology (if applied properly) actually works. Besides I cannot imagine any greater reward than having you (an opponent) recognize my research results. If no money is involved, then I am prepared to undergo the test I have described in my first email.


Then I suppose my hypothetical question posted in an earlier thread is applicable ... "1) Would JREF in principle entertain an application where the applicant was a different person than the person with the ability? That is, it is the applicant that is doing the demonstration, showing that the ability exists in another person. (For the moment, neglect the motives of the two people involved.)"

I, therefore, will be perfectly willing to submit an application for the above astrologer, and act as the recipient of the award. In order to make sure that there is no monetary taint of the test, the above astrologer shall do all the work, make all arrangements for testing, costs, etc. My only role (so as not to unduly contaminate the results) will be to be the recipient of any challenge award money. So go for it! Acknowledge that you'd like to proceed and we'll start the proceedings.

- Timothy

[Pyrts]

Originally posted by Timothy
[B]Then I suppose my hypothetical question posted in an earlier thread is applicable ... "1) Would JREF in principle entertain an application where the applicant was a different person than the person with the ability?

If I can answer that question, do I get the million dollars? :)

[Ashles]

No, I will not apply. Yes, I would like to be tested, but only if there is no money reward at the other end. I am a single-minded person, and I prefer not to do the test work with a split or dual motivation. The single purpose, which I would like to focus on, is: To prove that astrology (if applied properly) actually works. Besides I cannot imagine any greater reward than having you (an opponent) recognize my research results. If no money is involved, then I am prepared to undergo the test I have described in my first email.
Am I really reading this right?

Can we genuinely add to the 'list of reasons people don't take the challenge' the excuse:
"I don't like the fact that there is a million dollars prize - I'd only do it for free"

Is that actually really what they are saying?

[Psiload]

Originally posted by Ashles
Am I really reading this right?

Can we genuinely add to the 'list of reasons people don't take the challenge' the excuse:
"I don't like the fact that there is a million dollars prize - I'd only do it for free"

Is that actually really what they are saying? I received a fabulous job offer the other day, but then I learned that there was a paycheck involved, so, naturally, I turned it down.

[Steven Howard]

Originally posted by Ashles
Am I really reading this right?

Can we genuinely add to the 'list of reasons people don't take the challenge' the excuse:
"I don't like the fact that there is a million dollars prize - I'd only do it for free"

Is that actually really what they are saying?

I think so. Although really it's just a variation on the old "I cannot (or will not) use my powers for material gain" dodge that "explains" why psychics never use their amazing precognitive powers in Las Vegas or at the lottery counter. In this case, the claimant seems to say that proving the skeptics wrong and winning a million dollars are two separate goals and that as a "single-minded person" he or she would rather focus on the single goal of proving the skeptics wrong. It doesn't really make any sense, since you can't win the million dollars without proving the skeptics wrong, and vice versa, but that's certainly what they seem to be saying.

[Metullus]

Originally posted by Ashles
Am I really reading this right?

Can we genuinely add to the 'list of reasons people don't take the challenge' the excuse:
"I don't like the fact that there is a million dollars prize - I'd only do it for free"

Is that actually really what they are saying?

Well of course, Mr. Wilkes.

I long ago recognized the indisputable fact that no astrologer is in it for filthy lucre. Only for the good of mankind.

Same goes for psychics and their like.

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Metullus
Sort of gets me thinking. If HT knows Kramer's response, he really need not ask the question, huh? And, knowing Kramer's response means that he can respond to it, but, he does not actually need to post it because he already knows Kramer's response to that as well. And so on and so forth.

So, HT is debating Kramer, even if Kramer does not know it. Rather efficient, don't you think?
As a matter of fact, if HT is psychic, he ought to have known that the JREF would reject his claim. When then did he apply in the first place? One wonders...

[LostAngeles]

Can we add mayday's "I know I can do it soon! I just need to practice!" as an excuse for not taking the challenge?

[Metullus]

Originally posted by Vikram
As a matter of fact, if HT is psychic, he ought to have known that the JREF would reject his claim. When then did he apply in the first place? One wonders...

Maybe HT knows something we don't, but would, if we knew what HT knows, if I may be forgiven for employing woo-speak...

[Metullus]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
Can we add mayday's "I know I can do it soon! I just need to practice!" as an excuse for not taking the challenge?

Or her "I've got a life" excuse.