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RCNelson
23rd January 2005, 02:05 PM
On this weeks commentary (http://63.118.175.191/jr/012105the.html), it was claimed, with regard to the tsunami, that:
The Buddhist talked of desire and misery. (I don't know that a natural disaster is the result of desire).
Being curious how a Buddhist could be so stupid as to blame the tsunami on desire, I went to the Larry King Live transcript archive (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0501/07/lkl.01.html). What I found was that the Buddhist representative never even mentioned desire, and even presented a fairly naturalistic view. Here's what he actually said:
Gunaratana on Larry King Live:
KING: ... How do you explain this [tsunami], how do you accept a higher being?

HANEPOLA GUNARATANA, BUDDHIST VIHARA TEMPLE: This we believe is a very natural phenomenon that can happen any time, anywhere in the world. This is not something was done or created or caused by any supernatural, superhuman being. This happened, because of the natural causes.

And now, what we are to do is to accept what has happened. And then deal with the situation with the way that is most important, most beneficial to all those who have -- those who have lost their properties, relatives, friends, children and so forth. And those who are suffering from enormous catastrophe. We support them to overcome their psychological problems, emotional problems, loss of relatives, friends and so forth.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
KING: ... Does the Buddhist believe in a good and loving God?

GUNARATANA: Buddhists believe that there is a universal force, universal nature. This is called eternal law. And this is -- part of that nature, that things come into existence and they are going out of existence in one way or another. And this is one of those ways that things went out of existence. And here is an opportunity for us to generate more compassion, living friendliness, generosity, and helping each other. So here we have great, deep faith in humanity and human beings' support and help.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
KING: What does the Buddhist believe with regard to charity?

GUNARATANA: Charity is very natural, spontaneous offering, giving things just like in this situation, everybody's heart open. Americans, non-Americans, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Christians. Everybody began to make generous donations because it is a human nature that giving things -- that they want to do, to support everybody. It comes naturally, automatically, spontaneously. That is what certainly happened this moment. Everybody came forward in many different ways. Billions of dollars have been raised. And all kinds of material things have been donated. All came spontaneously from their own heart. Just purely because of that human nature. Although this situation instigated this -- aroused this nature. But it is all human beings.

KING: Do your scriptures require it? Bontaje, do your scriptures require giving?

GUNARATANA: Yes. It is actually the most important thing in order to unite us, get rid of our greed, get rid of our hatred, to bring us together, be friendly, and support each other. This is the most fundamental thing. Because we is suffer because of our greed. And when we learn to give away, then we learn to reduce our greed, our suffering, and the suffering of the world. And these people are millions of people in the world. Suffering, especially here, more than almost 160,000 people suffer, in order to eliminate pain, suffering, grief, and despair. People began to donate things, give away things. This is the very basic...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
KING: ... Do you doubt?

GUNARATANA: I don't have any doubt with compassion, people's generosity, their faith. They are coming forward to support in situations like this. We always have very deep faith in all these beings. That we have deepest faith in the truth, the reality. That will never fail us. It always is there. It always manifests itself in the true way. And therefore we have deepest faith in the truth.

Bodhi Dharma Zen
23rd January 2005, 06:44 PM
The questions were done as if they were for christians and their god. Buddhism is so different, in a way, it shouldnt be called "a religion".

I like the answers from the monk.

Lisa Simpson
23rd January 2005, 06:53 PM
I'm really glad you hunted this down, RCNelson. I couldn't figure out why a Buddhist would mention desire either. Thanks! :D

Rrose Selavy
23rd January 2005, 07:41 PM
Yes Agree with above. Well spotted.

LTC8K6
24th January 2005, 12:09 AM
It is actually the most important thing in order to unite us, get rid of our greed, get rid of our hatred, to bring us together, be friendly, and support each other. This is the most fundamental thing. Because we is suffer because of our greed.

I can read that as a person talking about desire and misery. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. We are miserable(suffer) because of our desires (greed).

RCNelson
24th January 2005, 05:59 AM
LTC8K6:
I can read that as a person talking about desire and misery. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. We are miserable(suffer) because of our desires (greed).
He's saying that greed causes suffering, but he's not saying greed causes tsunamis.

The context here is that he's talking about the importance of charity. He says charity is important because it counteracts greed and the suffering caused by greed.

jmercer
24th January 2005, 11:15 AM
If I remember right, he's referring to the second and third Noble Truths of Buddhism - "The Eight-Fold Path". (He's also probably referencing one or more of the paths derived from the Noble Truths.):


The Four Noble Truths:

The First Noble Truth is that life is dukkha, which is usually translated as suffering.

The Second Noble Truth identifies what causes the suffering. It is tanha, or the desire for personal fulfillment.

The Third Noble Truth follows from the second. If suffering is caused by selfish craving, its cure lies in overcoming the craving.

The Fourth Noble Truth prescribes how the cure can be accomplished, which is by following the Eight-Fold Path.


You can find a million paraphrases of these, but I believe that the above is a reasonably accurate representation... so his commentary about greed and it's relationship to suffering is highly consistent with the basic precepts of his religion. (Or philosophy, if you prefer.)

JoeRagg
24th January 2005, 06:07 PM
R.C.Nelson, I stand corrected.
I read the transcript carefully myself and realized that I was unfairly harsh on the Buddhist that appeared on Larry King live.
My apologies go out to him and to anyone else who took offense.

What probably biased my opinion towards him was that although he may not think so, there are Buddhists that see natural disasters as the result of the accumulation of bad Karma. It is a kind of Eastern version of sin and God's judgement.
Just a few days ago I saw one Buddhist philosopher on a show talk of bad karma and cosmic imbalance prompting the tsunami disaster.
This was on the PBS show Religion and Ethics Newsweekly.

bigred
25th January 2005, 01:45 PM
test

Kopji
27th January 2005, 11:45 PM
Joeragg
Just a few days ago I saw one Buddhist philosopher on a show talk of bad karma and cosmic imbalance prompting the tsunami disaster.
I saw that one too turned it off. Someone from 'Diamond Way Buddhism'. Led by a Danish guy named Lama Ole Nydahl.
(I keep track).

Buddhism has two main schools of thought: Theravada and Mahayana. Quite different. One of the first Atheists I ever met was a Buddhist, and I have a Buddhist neighbor who is very sweet but shockingly superstitious.


R.C.Nelson, I stand corrected.
I read the transcript carefully myself and realized that I was unfairly harsh on the Buddhist that appeared on Larry King live.
My apologies go out to him and to anyone else who took offense.

A BIG Welcome!

Kopji
27th January 2005, 11:55 PM
Here is the interview I remember:

We all die, sooner or later. Some have conditions for living long lives and some for short lives. That is your karma - the total effect of one's actions and conduct. What might have precipitated the tsunami was a lot of people coming together who had the karma for a short life and, to an extent, this is perhaps a reflection that these areas were over-populated.

The shifting of tectonic plates is inevitable, but fewer people in the areas affected would have led to a much smaller loss of life. When watching the TV news, reading the papers or thinking about the tsunami, we are thinking about the Buddha we like the best - perhaps the Red Buddha, the Buddha of limitless light. We do this so that when those who died in the disaster wake up from the shock of dying - we believe it takes about three days to do so - they will be sent up to the Buddha we have in mind. Buddhists think the mind is indestructible so, after a while, if one wants to and is able, they will have the choice to take rebirth in society as beings who help others.
LAMA OLE NYDAHL
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4138095.stm


This actually, speaks for itself.

jmercer
28th January 2005, 04:26 AM
Interesting. It sounds like he's citing actions as a part of the karma that contributes to life-expectancy, then he mentions that fewer people living in that area would have reduced the loss of life - implying that the people in that area had karma for a shorter life.

Heh, gotta love it - "Your actions decide your karma; your karma determines your life expectancy, so all of those people who died made a decision to live where they could die from a tsunami - hence, that was their karma."

He's right about one thing, though. We (humanity) often do seem to tend to cluster around area's subject to massive disasters.

JoeRagg
31st January 2005, 06:29 PM
Kopji, thanks for the info.

I visited India several years back. One of the places I saw was Sarnath, where the Buddha gave his first lecture after achieving "enlightenment."
It was an interesting experience.