Considering joining the teaching profession - advise me, please

[bignickel]

Well, during TAM3, I began to realize that the US of A needs a massive influx of dedicated teachers of science and critical thinking skills.

"And would you be willing to do that?" asked a voice in my head...

"UH, no, don't think that's possible. I've got a job already, and house and car bills, and I'm already in my mid-thirties... this is a job for the young" I says right back.

Then I came back to St. Louis, and found out the next day that my ass was fired. (With a comfortable severance)

So......... Huh. Odd how the universe works some time.

Anyways: I have an BA from Miami U. Major in English, minor in History.

I want to teach science, evolution, critical thinking, and show Cosmos episodes.

What do I need to do? Where do I teach? What grade? How much will I have to spend? And more important: will I be able to pay the mortgage?

Advise me, kudasai.

[H3LL]

Come and work here. Now.

Free apartment, free utilities, low cost of living.

Take a year off (or more) and discover somewhere new. Rent your house out meanwhile.

Think of it as a holiday that you get paid to have.

Bring spouse if you have one.

PM me for more info.

[bignickel]

uh. where would HERE be exactly? You've carefully hidden your 'location', so to speak.

[athon]

bignickel,

Teaching is not what it seems. Far from wanting to discourage you (it can be an extremely rewarding profession and we sure need more critical thinkers in the world), you do have to be aware of what a career in it means in a day-to-day sense.

Being a teacher is only about 30% teaching the curriculum, 30% classroom management, 30% administration worker (the paper-work and marking...ugh!) and the rest is social worker, police officer, doctor and parent. These figures can vary considerably depending on the school and feeder district, but typically echo this. In other words, there is so much more to being a teacher than...well, teaching.

Volunteer for a school for a week or so. Most places would love to have the help. If you like what you see, go for it. It is one of the few professions where you get paid to be abused and assaulted and can't do a great deal about it. But it is also one of the few professions where you can make a huge difference to somebody's life.

If I haven't dissuaded you, welcome aboard!

Athon

[Kiless]

As a fellow teacher, I agree with Athon (naturally) - he's pretty much hit it on the head with the additional expectations of this profession that they don't show you on a piece of parchment from a University.

I've noticed your background wouldn't actually give you the qualifications to teach Science - you mention Humanities sujects like History and English? So you may need to work on that if you do want to be a teacher who does Science - although I'm pleased to note that my recent qualification upgrades enables me to teach Philosophy and I'll certainly get a lot of what you've mentioned about critical thinking into the program.

Answers:

"What do I need to do? " - get a postgraduate cert or equivilent from a University; where I am (Australia) that is a year of University, but it varies from place to place and you can even do a B.Ed which is a three-year degree if you wanted (here they actually pay you less if you do a B.Ed three-year as doing a Bachelors and then a one-year Dip Ed makes you a four-year qualified teacher despite having less time 'learning to educate'.

"Where do I teach?" - the world is your oyster. I love that about the job; I could do as Athon has done and go overseas to teach as far as the UK, Russia, Canada, Saudi Arabia... or go back to teaching in the country areas of Australia or even just tutor kids who work on film sets (a friend has done this!) or even do a School of the Air and teach over the radio and internet, or travel in a little caravan across the desert teaching nomadic groups. It's incredible where it can take you.

"What grade?" - it's up to you. I've taught the very young (first year kids) and adults (20 to 23) and I've found that I'm happiest with teenagers from 12-18. Some people are just natural teachers of the very young; some are born professors and are lauded as the best at their University.

"How much will I have to spend?" - Peh. For $50 I can buy a PhD.... but seriously, check out your local colleges and be aware that there's sometimes funding via scholarships and government groups for teacher training (mostly for Sciences, Math and LOTE). If you're doing prac, seriously get support as the last few prac teachers I knew who juggled bar work and other demanding part-time jobs with full time teaching for a few weeks really got worn down.

"And more important: will I be able to pay the mortgage?" - a friend was one day away from signing onto the Dole when she got an offer from a Government school to teach in a Wheatbelt town. She was stuck there for four years as a part of a contract and made enough to holiday overseas after three years but lived rather frugally in the remote town. Some go up the ladder of Administration and make a very nice sum as Deputy, Heads of Year, etc. The principal of my school was given a Jaguar as a part of his position and a rent-free house in a very posh part of the city. Check out your newspaper in the hiring sections for Educational Positions but seriously, don't expect a big salary beyond being able to manage the morgage early on in the career. The hours can suck and after seven years I was able to afford (with a husband who earns more per hour and has less qualifications than myself and works less hours and less stress in comparision - by which I mean, he doesn't have software packages emailing him asking if he'll adopt him as their guardians have decided that they don't want to take care of them anymore!!) to have a holiday.

Check out your local job guide and see what your local Universities and Colleges have to offer - certainly getting in touch with other teachers in your area (do you know lecturers from your original Uni who could advise you? Check out sites for 'best places to get teacher training' in order to get an idea about the rep of the places you are considering getting training from). And if you are volunteering at a school to help, get your police clearance now. Saves time if they just close the door in your face as it's the first question they ask anyone here. Not even grounds staff are allowed on campus if they don't have police clearance.

[crimresearch]

The love of teaching has been the downfall of many a teacher...it is like someone who loves to read going to work at a Barnes and Noble, and finding out that the job is all about shelving, cleaning, pushing best sellers, and schedules, with no time to indulge one's passion.

Teaching is about being an employee of the school board, and getting along with your supervisors and fellow employees, not all of whom will see your love of teaching as a priority or even as an asset.

Having said that, you are going to need a teaching certification, which is a couple of semesters, and probably some sort of local certification or orientation which could be a couple of weeks.

Then you can sit there and never hear a word from any of the schools, while reading in the paper about the critical teacher shortage in your area, and watch position after position get filled by 'waivered' uncertified teachers who know someone in the system.

If you do have the luxury of a severance, take the tests or whatever is needed in your area to become conditionally certified, and start subbing immediately, to get your face in front of the principals, and to learn which schools you want to try for.

When substitute teaching, be aware that they care even less about the teaching abilities and desires of a sub...they want someone reliable who doesn't cause trouble with the kids or parents.
If at all possible, try to sub as a PE teacher...if the kids see you in sweats, you will forever be a 'Coach', and have much more respect than a mere sub.

Since you will be spared much of the grunt work of a regular teacher, you can get an insider's view of the school system while making a few bucks.


And whatever you do, under no circumstances let them sucker you into teaching middle schoolers.

[bignickel]

Let me amend one of my questions: "where do I teach: public, or private?"

To whit: I've gone to private schools growing up, grades 1-12. Junior HS and HS was a college prep HS.

Now, I was talking with 2 friends of mine who've worked in the public school, and they've told me stories about 'managing' the class, that just left a bit dumbfounded.

A class that AYE have to keep controlled? Where the heck are the parents? People getting stabbed going to the bathroom? Girls fighting with each other over oblivious boys?

I have no experiance seeing any of that kind of stuff. In Junior HS and HS (all boy schools, natch), that kind of stuff might impair your ability to get into a good school, so hardly anyone acted up in that way. It would have been seen as being very stupid.

I dunno. Maybe I need to have a conversation with a private school admin...

(BTW - are they allowed to ask my religion? When I was submitting my resume back in 92, a person told me point blank "oh, are school only hires pentacostalists" (or something))

[crimresearch]

Private schools usually pay a lot less than public schools...

And yes, they can ask you your religion, and take it into consideration. I don't know if they can force you to be an outwardly observant member of one though, but they sure don't have to hire you.


Public schools...yes there is a whole different take on behavior,,,you are there to warehouse the offspring of those who can't afford private schools.

And yes, people get stabbed...in a bad middle school, you could get stabbed on your way to the teacher's wash room, in a good public middle school, you will probably just get stabbed by a pencil in the classroom, breaking up a fight.

Public high schools are much safer. The ones that were real terrors in middle school have been greatly weeded out by the criminal justice and medical systems.

[bignickel]

To be honest, what I have heard and read so far has not been encouraging.

I would really love to share my love of science with the youth, but it doesn't sound like Americans are all that serious about 'educating' the youth, and that they've just been paying lip service.

Because if they were really serious about wanting to me to teach their kids... they wouldn't have such messed up schools! I mean, really! 30% teach, 30% classroom management..? That's just plain NUTS.

I was talking to someone who knows some people who teaches in private schools last night. $22K a year? Is that a joke? That's just better than retail, and I mean JUST.

I guess you really would have to love teaching in order to do it, with the amount of hurdles they put up. Too bad. I might have been pretty good at it, and kids would have dug Carl's 70's jacket.

[bigred]

Originally posted by bignickel


I guess you really would have to love teaching in order to do it, with the amount of hurdles they put up.

Yep. Sad, isn't it? Teaching SHOULD be one of the most revered and supported professions of all.

[crimresearch]

"To be honest, what I have heard and read so far has not been encouraging."

I don't think it would have been a favor to you or anyone else to sugar coat it.

"...I would really love to share my love of science with the youth, but it doesn't sound like Americans are all that serious about 'educating' the youth, and that they've just been paying lip service."

With the advent of elected school boards, education has become predictably political...and as a result, we have pretty much the school system we deserve.

[cbish]

My $0.02,

Bignickle,

I have to agree with one theme that has been pounded in this thread. I guarantee teaching is not what you think it is. Beginning teachers (myself included when I was a youngin') have a romantic view of the job. After a few years, the seven stages of grieving take over; denial, depression, anger, etc, etc. until either acceptance or you leave.

One question I always ask our student teachers is, "why do you want to become a teacher?" I'll ask the same of you and all I want you to do is be very, very honest with yourself. Beginning teachers (myself included in the day) typically come into the job with a messiahic complex. I'm going to make a difference. I'm going to be the best ever. etc. When that doesn't really pan out, the above seven stages pan out.

Some additional things to consider:

Are you emotionally/mentally tough? How thick-skinned are you? Be prepared to be criticized. Be prepared to be wrongly criticized. Be prepared to be outrageously criticized.


How patient are you? One thing that 'lay people' don't understand is that you are used to dealing with reasonable people. Well, forget that. How well do you handle idiots? Also, keep in mind that teaching is an emotional business. You're dealing with parents. Parents lose all rationality when it comes to their children.

Lastly, and this is going to be completely politically incorrect and may anger people but I think it's worth mentioning. Professionally, teaching can be kind of a dead end job. There isn't alot of room for growth. Grant it, you get better, you should get better, but you're going to have to work very hard and strive for that. Realistically, after about three years, you've seen about 90% of the job. After five years, probably 98%. And, after 10 years, you've seen just about all you'll ever see. Sometimes it feels like putting nuts on bolts.

In short, there's good things and bad. As mentioned, do your homework. Talk with people you know and who know you as to whether this is a good fit for you. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to help.

[bigred]

cb, sadly those are astute observations I've heard from teachers time and again.

It's also why, despite loving the idea of it, I never even seriously considered becoming a teacher.

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by bignickel
Well, during TAM3, I began to realize that the US of A needs a massive influx of dedicated teachers of science and critical thinking skills.

"And would you be willing to do that?" asked a voice in my head...

"UH, no, don't think that's possible. I've got a job already, and house and car bills, and I'm already in my mid-thirties... this is a job for the young" I says right back.

Then I came back to St. Louis, and found out the next day that my ass was fired. (With a comfortable severance)

So......... Huh. Odd how the universe works some time.

Anyways: I have an BA from Miami U. Major in English, minor in History.

I want to teach science, evolution, critical thinking, and show Cosmos episodes.

What do I need to do? Where do I teach? What grade? How much will I have to spend? And more important: will I be able to pay the mortgage?

Advise me, kudasai.

Hai.

It's the same line of thinking that's led me to decide I want to teach math in either junior high or high school. As far as what California and the city of Los Angeles require, I can direct you to the Los Angeles Unified School District homepage. (http://notebook.lausd.net/portal/page?_pageid=33,47493&_dad=ptl&_schema=PTL_EP) Basically, for single subject teaching, you need a bachelor's in the subject and pass competancy exams. Also, I know that when(if) I transfer to UCLA, I'll end up doing some student teaching also.

While it's not entirely impossible for you to not be able to teach critical thinking in an English class or a History class, if you want to teach science, you'll probably need a bachelor's. They might be willing to take some of your past college classes for credit towards the new degree. Not only that, there are loan forgiveness programs for aspiring teachers in math and science. They do require you to spend a certain amount of time teaching at a low performing school.

Personally, I'm intending to teach public schools since those are the ones with the greatest need. I'm much less likely to get shot, or have to deal with one of my students being shot in private school, though, and that kinds drives the decision for public school home. These kids need good teachers a little more, you know?

What? Me, idealistic? Nah. If I'm not broken by my first year, I'll be surprised. I figure if I can get one kid to go, "OK, math doesn't suck that hard," then I've done something at least. I'd like to do more than that. I'd like to last as an unbroken teacher past retirement age. I'm just not going to set my hopes that high. It's better to deal with what you can, the best you can.

Don't worry about the age. I'm in my mid-twenties and I'm a college freshman. My mother's getting towards her fifties and she's gone back to get her teaching credentials for elementary school.

There are some afterschool type programs that do the science thing. I think there's a national one called Mad Scientists or something. You could always look into that or, when I was in elementary school there was a guy who ran the science center and he would either come to our classrooms or we would go to the center to check out bugs and squids and other neat stuff. It was cut, due to lack of funding, but if the public schools in your area have something like that, that's a thought there too.

[cbish]

Lost Angeles wrote:
While it's not entirely impossible for you to not be able to teach critical thinking in an English class or a History class, if you want to teach science, you'll probably need a bachelor's.
At least here in Calif, you can test-out of a subject area. A co-worker of mine had to take the CSET test for Biology because he got his degree in Forestry. I had to test out in Chem because mine is in Biological Science. I actually had enough units to teach chem but the rules may change with NCLB so I went ahead and took the test anyway.

Critical thinking can be an essential part of an English or History class. It should be done.
I figure if I can get one kid to go, "OK, math doesn't suck that hard," then I've done something at least.
If you can do that, you've earned your salary. If you get two, they owe you money!;) Good Luck! If you have any questions, just holler!

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by cbish

At least here in Calif, you can test-out of a subject area. A co-worker of mine had to take the CSET test for Biology because he got his degree in Forestry. I had to test out in Chem because mine is in Biological Science. I actually had enough units to teach chem but the rules may change with NCLB so I went ahead and took the test anyway.

Critical thinking can be an essential part of an English or History class. It should be done.

If you can do that, you've earned your salary. If you get two, they owe you money!;) Good Luck! If you have any questions, just holler!

Really? I was reading that it had to be a bachelor's. That's good because then I can maybe minor in physics and teach that too. Only because physics is probably easier to communicate, however, I've learned that in math, you can be lazy.

Thanks!

[drkitten]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
Really? I was reading that it had to be a bachelor's. That's good because then I can maybe minor in physics and teach that too. Only because physics is probably easier to communicate, however, I've learned that in math, you can be lazy.


It varies tremendously with the jurisdiction. For example, if I read the Arizona web pages correctly, subject knowledge certification is obtained by passing a state-given test in the relevant area. This means that you can be a certified "Chemistry" or "Physics" teacher without ever having taken a single physics class in college, let alone having majored in it, if you can demonstrate a working knowledge of the subject (better crack those books, then). New Jersey requires at least a major "in the subject teaching field" for the first endorsement, and then at least 30 hours in any additional fields for endorsement. Pick your state.

The degree to which certification is required also varies with the jurisdiction, and indeed even with the district/school. Although very few schools will employ totally uncertified teachers, a lot of them will employ teachers in areas in which they're not certified -- if you've got a Physics cert, you may be called upon to teach Chem if there's a shortage. For that matter, if you have an Art cert, you still may be called upon to teach Chem. Of course, a school district that can't afford a chem teacher probably can't afford a chem lab you want to teach in either. On the other hand, if if were an easy job, everyone would want to do it.

[cbish]

Lost Angeles,

In Calif. you have to have a "bachelor degree". It could be in Piano for all they care as long as you test out. Now, NCLB may change that. Go for it.

[kittynh]

Look, try it. If you are going into it to make big money, forget it. But, despite what people say, you DO have your summers off. You can travel, build a house (Larry B. did it) and study and learn more.

Private schools are nice. I adore my school. The teachers are great, the administration is a pain at times, but supportive. The children are wonderful (yes, even the middle school). The parents, well, it would be nice if most of them were orphans.

The teachers at the middle school LOVE it. They would never do anything else.

Not all private schools are religious. Montessori schools don't require the same degree as public schools.

Teaching is wonderful in the right school. But making a lot of money? Hahahahahaha! It depends on what is important to you in life.

One question...do you LIKE children? Even young teens? Can you even stand them? How many do you know?

If you are close to Vermont, come visit. It would be unfair though, as I think you would just want to jump in and start teaching!

The middle school is leaving soon for a Civil Rights trip to Alabama. Can you imagine? LIving the history lesson? The kids are so ready, they've learned all the old Civil Rights songs to sing, read the speeches, studied the heros.

Seeing the light of discovery in a childs eyes. I have to say I never started out to work in a school, but I never get over the thrill of seeing that LOOK.

[maddog]

As one who is in mid-jump -- from engineering to teaching -- you've got to try it to see if you can really do it. Try an adjunct faculty position with your local community college first. Just pick up one class for one semester -- see if you can do it, see if you like it. If that works then add more classes. Meanwhile, get some creds (i.e. credentials, paper... ) in the areas you want to teach -- you can't teach science with an English degree. Get a science education degree if you want to teach science -- it might not make you any more of a teacher (though it might help), but it will help you get in the door, if that's the direction you want to go.

But for god's sake (sorry...), don't go into it with a Messiah complex. You're not going to change the whole world. Do it because you like to teach. Do it because teaching is something that you have a talent for. And then, changing opinions and beliefs will come naturally. If you go into it trying to change people, you'll be labeled a proselytizing freak, just as the evangelicals are.

Get your head on straight first. You're newly unemployed -- take some time to figure out what it is that you REALLY want to do, and don't just take the coincidental timing as some sort of sign from god (well, you know what I mean!!!! -- and I'm totally serious) that teaching is your destiny.

[Larry Barrieau]

I teach 7th grade science in a public school. I stress critical thinking through paranormal studies and after 21 years it's a good system. But like most states we have standards and state assessment tests (MCAS) which all teaching must be geared to. This means that you teach to the test. In my case it wasn't a problem, the state criteria was very close to what I'd already been doing.

The biggest problems for me are administration and parents. I know how to teach and I just want to shut my door and do my job without interference from people who don't know what they're talking about.

So there's a level of frustration but that comes with all jobs. And then there's the pleasure of "I get it now!" when they see a video of Randi bending a key in front of their deceived eyes, or when I explain cold reading or the wonders of a neutron star.

Money? You can probably pay your bills, but you'll have to scrimp and save for TAM.

[cbish]

Larry Barrieau wrote:The biggest problems for me are administration and parents. I know how to teach and I just want to shut my door and do my job without interference from people who don't know what they're talking about
Boy, that's the truth! This isn't discussed at teaching school. And, this goes back to the naive, false assumption that you will be dealing with reasonable people.