Is Bigfoot considered Paranormal?

[mayday]

Just wonder if Randi would accept the capture of a bigfoot creature proof of the paranormal? (If so I've got a sister I'm sure would win me that prize :D )

Seriously, though, does he consider this paranormal?

A million dollars isn't that much money by today's standards, but it would still be worth it.

[L7Cz]

Check the Application.

"Paranormal" and "uncatalogued lifeform" seem to have distinctly different definitions, at least in my lexicon.

And Randi doesn't do the accepting.

No link to a picture of your sister? Fuzzy, out-of-focus, poorly lit, telephoto shot with a cheap SLR and old film processed on home equipment inherited from your great-grandfather who really invented film photography but that mean Mr. Kodak (or was it Mr. Land?) snookered out of the legal rights to the process and descended into an absinthe/alcohol/self-flagellation-enhanced depression but still retained enough native genius to invent a totally different process that uses the quantum properties of rare earth and even rarer rare air magnets to produce images that look like real photographs but are really a totally different process which g-g-dad adamantly refused to patent because he was afraid he was being watched by agents of the same man who did him wrong but passed the secret techniques and methods to his progeny who kept the secret for all these years through nearly unimaginable hardships and legal battles and alien forces (or were they primitive monkeymen with vast knowledge of the natural world and forces which we have forgotten) seeking to extract the knowledge by means of painful invasive extractions which left no visible marks just the images seared into your brain and and and...

Or, to respond directly to your OP, no and no and how old are you anyway?

[MRC_Hans]

Now, you'd basically have to ask James Randi, of course, but:

If documenting Bigfoot is documenting the existence of a hitherto undiscovered large primate, then, while extremely surprising, there is nothing paranormal about it. Unknown animals are discovered quite regularly. Most are in very remote places or they are very small, to be true, but it is theoretically possible that a large primate (apart from Homo sapiens) might exist in the forests if North America. Not very likely, but possible.

Hans

[IXP]

Why bother? Just think what Nike would pay for endorsements!

e.g. "If it hadn't been for my size 28 Nike's I would have been caught decades ago."

[mayday]

I was wondering because I am in the planning stanges of building a trap to catch Bigfoot. It will have to be a very strong trap because Yeti has escaped everytime someone has tried to catch it.

No fuzzy out of focus pics. I'm going for the real deal.

[IXP]

Originally posted by mayday
I was wondering because I am in the planning stanges of building a trap to catch Bigfoot. It will have to be a very strong trap because Yeti has escaped everytime someone has tried to catch it.

No fuzzy out of focus pics. I'm going for the real deal.

Great idea. Bait it with female Yeti pheronomes, and you are assured success. I have some homeopathic quantities of it I can sell you, but it is not cheap!

IXP

[L7Cz]

No, no!! Don't buy IXP's snake oil!!! My own brand of homeopathic female pheromone (and it comes in more varieties than just Yeti!) is twice as strong -- three times as strong on weekends and holidays -- and costs less (as soon as IXP names a price, anyway). And mine comes in a special magnetically-treated bottle (made of advanced space-age NASA-approved polymers for added protection of the valuable ingredients) to align the active ingredient molecules for optimum organic assimilation and efficacy.

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
I was wondering because I am in the planning stanges of building a trap to catch Bigfoot. It will have to be a very strong trap because Yeti has escaped everytime someone has tried to catch it.

No fuzzy out of focus pics. I'm going for the real deal.

I've often wondered, with all these supposed sightings in the woods, no one has managed to shoot one & drag the carcass back for science to look at? It sounds a heck of a lot easier than building a trap. Heck, the ammunition for my Ferret is only US$ 4.50 a round, & I'm sure that it will stop anything smaller than an APC (in fact, if you are a good shot, I would say you could stop that APC)

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by mayday
Just wonder if Randi would accept the capture of a bigfoot creature proof of the paranormal? (If so I've got a sister I'm sure would win me that prize :D )

Seriously, though, does he consider this paranormal?


This is my opinion, but I can't see how an supposed "ape-like-man" is paranormal.

An undocumented animal is a lot different from a ghost or reading minds.

Originally posted by mayday
A million dollars isn't that much money by today's standards, but it would still be worth it.

Speaking in terms of American GDP, but in terms of my personal income that is a lot of money.

[IXP]

Originally posted by L7Cz
No, no!! Don't buy IXP's snake oil!!! My own brand of homeopathic female pheromone (and it comes in more varieties than just Yeti!) is twice as strong -- three times as strong on weekends and holidays -- and costs less (as soon as IXP names a price, anyway). And mine comes in a special magnetically-treated bottle (made of advanced space-age NASA-approved polymers for added protection of the valuable ingredients) to align the active ingredient molecules for optimum organic assimilation and efficacy.

Yes, but do you have product endorsements from satisfied users like this one, from a female Yeti name Groshlig?

"I admit it, I am not the most attractive Yeti chick, I look almost human (ugh). I never had much luck with the Yeti guys, but IXP's homeopathic female Yeti pheromone has changed my life. One drop of this potent potion behind each of my furry ears, and the Yeti dudes are tripping over their big feet just to get to me. "

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by mayday
I was wondering because I am in the planning stanges of building a trap to catch Bigfoot. It will have to be a very strong trap because Yeti has escaped everytime someone has tried to catch it.

No fuzzy out of focus pics. I'm going for the real deal. Methinks people are not taking you seriously, mayday ;).

I wonder why :rolleyes:.

Ok, so you wannta trap Bigfoot. Lessee: Bigfoot has never been observed in a verifiable way. "He" evades photography. Nobody ever found as much ad a single bone, let alone a corpse, so "he" also very deftly evades hunters (not only modern drunken shotgun luggers, but Native American hunters, too), cars, bears, accidents, etc. But you expect to design a trap he will walk into? All presuming he exists, of course.

Good luck!

Hans

[webfusion]

Once you have built the trap, placed it in the proper place to capture the elusive creature, and actually succeeded in getting the results you desire, now you are concerned about a paltry million dollars?

I know a few NFL football teams that would give you $20-million for him.

http://www.hawkcentral.com/teams/football/2003/photos/032504gallery1.jpg

[L7Cz]

[Originally posted by IXP:]
Yes, but do you have product endorsements from satisfied users like this one, from a female Yeti name Groshlig?

All of my product endorsements are exactly like that one :D , except mine were written by actually satisfied actual users of my inherently superior naturally-derived (not synthetic like some I could name) product... :p

And I have those magnetically-treated bottles... ;)

[CurtC]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
If documenting Bigfoot is documenting the existence of a hitherto undiscovered large primate, then, while extremely surprising, there is nothing paranormal about it.On the other hand, you could as easily ask whether the prize would apply to psychic "ESP" penomena: "If documenting ESP is documenting the existence of a hitherto undiscovered method of human-to-human communication, then, while extremely surprising, there is nothing paranormal about it."

It gets round to the problem of how you define "paranormal," because if we figure out how to measure something, it would no longer be considered "paranormal" but "science." I agree that bigfoot is outside the scope of the challenge, but it's not such a clear-cut case as your statement makes it out to be.

[drkitten]

Originally posted by CurtC
On the other hand, you could as easily ask whether the prize would apply to psychic "ESP" penomena: "If documenting ESP is documenting the existence of a hitherto undiscovered method of human-to-human communication, then, while extremely surprising, there is nothing paranormal about it."

It gets round to the problem of how you define "paranormal," because if we figure out how to measure something, it would no longer be considered "paranormal" but "science." I agree that bigfoot is outside the scope of the challenge, but it's not such a clear-cut case as your statement makes it out to be.

Well, the practical definition of the paranormal, for purposes of the JREF challenge, is that it's paranormal if Randi agrees that it is. While philosophically naive, it does follow the primary Golden Rule -- that is, it's Randi's Gold, and therefore Randi's Rule.

But I think an important philosophical point to be discussed here is what conventional science's definition of the "normal" is; we have, for example, a fairly clear understanding of the human sensory apparatus and how it works, and what we believe to be a complete catalog of the human senses. Something like ESP would require radical re-evaluation of much of what we know about the psychology of sensation.

A previously unknown species? Big deal. Even a previously unknown primate? Still "big deal" -- there's an article in today's CNN about a chance to name a new monkey species (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/02/08/monkey.name.reut/index.html).

At least part of the definition of the paranormal is that it has to be incompatible with science as we now know it, not just an extension of what we already know.

[Starrman]

Just wonder if Randi would accept the capture of a bigfoot creature proof of the paranormal? (If so I've got a sister I'm sure would win me that prize )

Dude,

If you capture bigfoot - there will be no shortage of people out there willing to throw money at you for a piece of the big guy. I would guess you end up with much more than a million.

Don't worry about Randi's million - if Bigfoot can read minds, levitate or dowse go ahead and fill out the application for him and split the dough.

[webfusion]

Starrman offered:
Dude,
If you capture bigfoot - there will be no shortage of people out there willing to throw money at you for a piece of the big guy. I would guess you end up with much more than a million.

My posting mentioned the NFL giving $20-million, so why worry about the 'palrty' 1-mil ------ however now that I look at both of our posts, Starrman, I have to think again.

Getting one million from Randi is an excellent start to fame and fortune! It shouldn't be scoffed at! Yeah, there will always be more, that is to be expected from anyone who reveals a quantum leap forward in the understanding of science and technology. But taking a check for ten grand is sweet and the rest is gravy. So, I say, for all those lottery prognosticators and dice controllers and perpetual motion creators, who would make billions anyway, start small. Give us the pleasure at least, of boasting -- yeah, we started him off with best wishes at JREF Forums and now look at him -- the big shot!
(Heck, there are guys who compete to get on Letterman showing Stupid Pet Tricks, imagine having Bigfoot).

Which reminds me, new drkitten, I wanted to abscond with your quote "At least part of the definition of the paranormal is that it has to be incompatible with science as we now know it, not just an extension of what we already know."
May I use that in my sig please? I really like that. Thanks in advance.

[drkitten]

Originally posted by webfusion

Which reminds me, new drkitten, I wanted to abscond with your quote "At least part of the definition of the paranormal is that it has to be incompatible with science as we now know it, not just an extension of what we already know."
May I use that in my sig please? I really like that. Thanks in advance.

Abscond away, with my blessings.

[mayday]

Originally posted by Starrman
Dude,

If you capture bigfoot - there will be no shortage of people out there willing to throw money at you for a piece of the big guy. I would guess you end up with much more than a million.



Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
I do not want to shoot this creature. I do not like to kill anything if it is not necessary. Also, I know of someone who was chased by a bigfoot. The thing came at him and he shot it twice (with a high powered rifle), he said he saw red fur flying and the thing just kept coming at him. Finally, he broke into a clearing and when he turned back around it was nowhere to be seen.
I'm making an iron cage/booby trap. It may take weeks, it may take years, but I'm going to catch this big guy one way or another. I'm dedicated to that.

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
I do not want to shoot this creature. I do not like to kill anything if it is not necessary. Also, I know of someone who was chased by a bigfoot. The thing came at him and he shot it twice (with a high powered rifle), he said he saw red fur flying and the thing just kept coming at him. Finally, he broke into a clearing and when he turned back around it was nowhere to be seen.
I'm making an iron cage/booby trap. It may take weeks, it may take years, but I'm going to catch this big guy one way or another. I'm dedicated to that.

what makes you think that this thing is going to go into your cage (BTW, I do metal work, & welding a cage is like a one day project. We had to build a high security container for gas cylinders (4) to fit on the side of a silverado & even having to cut out a good portion of the truck bed & modifying the frame, we still did it in eight hours) Your anecdote is common amongst people who claim to have seen or know somone who has allegedly seen it. I find it interesting that it is always a "high powered rifle" or "shotgun" They never identify what model or caliber, and after shooting it & enraging it, they get away. Try that with a silverback or a russian boar & you will become a statistic pretty quick, yet this supposedly smarter & bulletproof critter abandons the chase pretty quick (keep in mind that a grizzly bear can run with a direct hit to the lungs from a 30-06 rifle for about 500 yards & still be able to turn you into meow mix) Somehow this all fails the sniff test...

[Starrman]

he said he saw red fur flying and the thing just kept coming at him.

Gee - if he just would have gone back and grabbed some of that bloody fur, we would have Bigfoot DNA! How surprising that he didn't do so, or that someone he told about it didn't do so. I'm sure you could make plenty of dough and become famous just from some bloody bigfoot fur.

Did you ever discuss this lack of follow up with your friend?

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by CurtC
On the other hand, you could as easily ask whether the prize would apply to psychic "ESP" penomena: "If documenting ESP is documenting the existence of a hitherto undiscovered method of human-to-human communication, then, while extremely surprising, there is nothing paranormal about it."

It gets round to the problem of how you define "paranormal," because if we figure out how to measure something, it would no longer be considered "paranormal" but "science." I agree that bigfoot is outside the scope of the challenge, but it's not such a clear-cut case as your statement makes it out to be. On "presently paranormal that will later be normal": You are quite right. "Any sufficiently advanced technology...". However, the challenge rules are quite specific about this. If the feat is deemed paranormal when the challenge is taken, then the prize is won, period. It doesn't matter if a natural explanation is later found.

Hans

[mayday]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
what makes you think that this thing is going to go into your cage (BTW, I do metal work, & welding a cage is like a one day project. We had to build a high security container for gas cylinders (4) to fit on the side of a silverado & even having to cut out a good portion of the truck bed & modifying the frame, we still did it in eight hours) Your anecdote is common amongst people who claim to have seen or know somone who has allegedly seen it. I find it interesting that it is always a "high powered rifle" or "shotgun" They never identify what model or caliber, and after shooting it & enraging it, they get away. Try that with a silverback or a russian boar & you will become a statistic pretty quick, yet this supposedly smarter & bulletproof critter abandons the chase pretty quick (keep in mind that a grizzly bear can run with a direct hit to the lungs from a 30-06 rifle for about 500 yards & still be able to turn you into meow mix) Somehow this all fails the sniff test...

I see you say "we" did it in eight hours. *We* being the key word. I'm by myself, and I am a 5'2" female working alone.

The rifle was a .50 Browning, since you want specifics. Yet, this is anecdotal, as your cage building spiel was. It is hard to state personal experiences as anything more than anecdotes. I'm sure you realize that. I have no reason to lie,and if I didn't feel strongly about this I wouldn't be spending time on it.

[LTC8K6]

The rifle was a .50 Browning, since you want specifics.

That did not add any credibility to the story.....

[mayday]

Originally posted by LTC8K6
That did not add any credibility to the story.....

I didn't post that bit of info. to get *your* stamp of approval, or anyone else's.
The dude wanted to know the caliber of the rifle so I told him.
What's your problem anyhow? :rolleyes:

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
I see you say "we" did it in eight hours. *We* being the key word. I'm by myself, and I am a 5'2" female working alone.

The rifle was a .50 Browning, since you want specifics. Yet, this is anecdotal, as your cage building spiel was. It is hard to state personal experiences as anything more than anecdotes. I'm sure you realize that. I have no reason to lie,and if I didn't feel strongly about this I wouldn't be spending time on it.
1.) Well, building a steel cage is hardly paranormal.We, is me & my boss, who is largely there to hand me pieces of metal & look pained as I cut up his precious spare truck & turned our equipment bay into monster garage for his "cost saving project" But since you mentioned it, having you there would have saved having to cram my 6' 3" body into the stupid 5' cage to finish some of the welds. Go to your local community college & take a welding class, it's not as hard as it looks...

2.) surely you don't mean .50 BMG(Browning Machine Gun). I have a ferret in .50 BMG & I would never hunt with it (practicality & cost effectiveness aside) It's a benchrest target rifle...what kind of game was he hunting? a BMP? (BTW, the Ferret is the lightest of the .50 BMG rifles, most others, like the barret & the Maadi-Griffin are much heavier often in the 30+lb. range & highly unsuitable for hunting.) Impact from a .50 BMG should have caused enough trauma that he could have tracked him by blood trail alone. never mind the amount of blood that would have exited the wound following in the wake of that round... Back to the practicality issue-I'm a big gut & firing the Ferret from the shoulder is a monumental task, the recoil is extreme, even with a muzzle break. I have no doubt that if it were a semi automatic rifle, I would be incapable of firing the second shot while remaining standing (mine is a single shot bolt action, so a second shot at a charging target would be impossible unless it was over 50 yards away & I had a clear line of sight) with a semi automatic rifle in .50 cal, if he didn't take it down in those two shots, it should have been on his very prone hide...

It's not a matter of thinking you are lying, just that you don't seem to see the holes in the logic, just like some of those bigfoot hunters that say one of the reasons no one has got any good pictures of them on night vision is "that they can sense the IR illuminator on the night vision scope" (pure BS, only cheap soviet surplus stuff needs the illuminator, mostly all gen III scopes are passive) Haven't you wondered why no one has good clear photos or hair samples, why no one has found a body or remains of them or even why after all these years the Patterson film is the best that they can produce for evidence? Why is it that only lone hunters or hikers see them up close (which by the way is a recipe for disaster-I always hunt or go hiking in a group, in fact that seems to be the norm for hunters here, I've yet to see a solo hunter...)We have the technology to get video or still photos, but yet the elude us. We have the means to get samples or a body, but either no one wants to hurt the critter or the forget to bring back the samples. Reminds me of old spooky's poster of the Billy Meier ufo with the words "I want to believe". I'll believe when someone shows me some real evidence.

[Ravenwood]

I forgot to add: Browning arms does not make a .50 caliber rifle (something you might not realize) There are some big game hunters that rechamber them to .50 Alaskan (450 grain bullet with a velocity of 1700 feet per second) The .50 BMG is a 706.7 grain round with a velocity of 2910 feet per second. The biggest off the rack Browning rifle is a .338 Win Mag, average round is 250 grain with a velocity of 2657 feet per second. any one of these three would have dropped a charging grizzly in his tracks. I have had the incredible displeasure of trying a buddy's Lever Action .50 Alaskan & I can pretty much conclude that follow up shots on a charging target would be next to impossible. I have only bench tested the .338 Win Mag (& to the best of my knowlege, these are only available as bolt action rifles) while not as horrific as the .50BMG or the .50 Alaskan, the recoil & action would make the aforementioned second shot at almost point blank range, in fact the muzzle flash probably would have burnt the fur of the target. While this may seem like a lot of spurious data, it all points to the fact that the event you described was highly unlikely to occur as described by your friend (never mind the trauma & tissue damage caused by a piece of lead of the aforementioned sizes travelling through a soft target at those ranges....

[Lavie Enrose]

I shot a bigfoot with an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing that tells time.

[Yaotl]

Originally posted by Lavie Enrose
I shot a bigfoot with an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing that tells time.

I took one down with a little Spyderco pocketknife I happened to have on a keychain. I then skinned him, sold his pelt at the nearest general store and turned all the meat into jerky. His skull is now adorning my cabin in the Andes. But I can't provide any proof, my camera is broken and the general store burned down under mysterious circumstances (possibly a group of rabid skeptics).

[Gr8wight]

I captured a Bigfoot by telepathically taking control of his mind. I made him serve me lemonade and sugar cookies, then I let him go, because I am not interested in money.

[IXP]

Ravenwood,

I am working on a laser-guided longitudinal-wave holographic projection containment mechanism for bigfoot. Once completed, it will scan (using satellite borne quantum entaglement transponders) all of the Pacific Northwest and zero in on any bigfeet, hold them in place an alert me via GPS of the exact location. Do you think a course in welding will be helpful?

[jmercer]

Originally posted by IXP
...and zero in on any bigfeet...

Improper usage. Didn't you read the Hobbit? Bilbo was corrected by the ProudFoot clan when he referred to them as "Proudfeet" in the plural. The proper usage, I believe, was "Proudfoots".

Same thing here. Bigfoot, singular, Bigfoots plural. Sheesh!

;) :D

[Ashles]

Originally posted by mayday
A million dollars isn't that much money by today's standards, but it would still be worth it.
What exactly constitutes a lot of money to you?

To me a million dollars would allow me to buy three decent size houses and live off the rental income for the rest of my life, allowing me to indulge in my chosen hobbies and not work again. Basically it would completely change my life.

Unless you are a multi-miilionaire a million dollars is a lot of money by anyone's standards.

What a weird thing to say.

Although as you are apparently hoping to capture bigfoot I guess you are only vaguely acquainted with the concept we refer to as 'reality'.

Unless you are a troll in which case you really need more hobbies.

[IXP]

Originally posted by jmercer
Improper usage. Didn't you read the Hobbit? Bilbo was corrected by the ProudFoot clan when he referred to them as "Proudfeet" in the plural. The proper usage, I believe, was "Proudfoots".

Same thing here. Bigfoot, singular, Bigfoots plural. Sheesh!

;) :D

Thank you for correcting my error. I presume this means you agree with everything else in the post.

IXP

[Starrman]

I shot a bigfoot with an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing that tells time.

I'm laughing so hard I can barely type!

The best part is Ralphie probably has as much of a chance of catching bigfoot as mayday does.

[MRC_Hans]

Mayday, are you capable of even a little bit of logic? Let us suppose your friends account is correct. You have then an apparantly aggressive creature that can take two .50 bullets and keep coming.

Do you know what a .50 bullet will do to a human? It will almost rip you apart.

Are you SURE you wanna catch that creature in a home-made cage :eek:?

Hans

[jmercer]

Originally posted by IXP
Thank you for correcting my error. I presume this means you agree with everything else in the post.

IXP

Absolutely.

Laser-guided longitudinal-wave holographic projection containment mechanisms represent a mature technology that has been previously employed (with indifferent success) for trapping jackalopes and snipes. Your addition of using satellite borne quantum entaglement transponders, however, is brillant! The problem with the holographic projection mechanisms has always been with the detection of the prey and the timing of the trap... and you've solved that quite elegantly. My congratulations, sir!

:D

[Metullus]

I have been on several bigfoot expeditions. We use beer for bait, usually breaking out a couple of cases each night, frequently with jerky & chips. It seems that the more beer we bring, the more likely we'll see or hear bigfeet in the night. I don't know why.

Funny thing, the horses & mules never seem to worry too much about them.

My buddy Scott says we should bring tequilla instead. Easier on the mules, I guess...

[mayday]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Mayday, are you capable of even a little bit of logic? Let us suppose your friends account is correct. You have then an apparantly aggressive creature that can take two .50 bullets and keep coming.

Do you know what a .50 bullet will do to a human? It will almost rip you apart.

Are you SURE you wanna catch that creature in a home-made cage :eek:?

Hans

Ravenwood, Browning most certainly made a .50

Hans, the superhuman strength of Bigfoot is exactly why this cage has to be more than an 8 hr. job. It not only must be very strong but with major reinforcements, and designed so that Bigfoot will not realize he is walking into a trap.
Bigfoot is not stupid.

Metullus, you like mules? I love horses and (especially mules)!
Check out my ponymule, Pudgy.

http://www.geocities.com/artraveller/photopageflag3.html

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Metullus
It seems that the more beer we bring, the more likely we'll see or hear bigfeet in the night.

Argh! Not bigfeet, BIGFOOTS!!! :D

[Metullus]

Originally posted by jmercer
Argh! Not bigfeet, BIGFOOTS!!! :D

You hear them, too?

[Metullus]

Originally posted by mayday


Metullus, you like mules? I love horses and (especially mules)!
Check out my ponymule, Pudgy.

Horses: Great on the flat & level, pretty to look at, always named something like "Lighting" or "Cyclone". Dumb as rocks. Dump me if a fly burps.

Mules: Walk forever, can walk straight up or straight down, carry more than I can pack, always named "Buck" or "Sam" or "Pudgy". Smarter than most people I know. 6.2 earthquake, so what?

I checked out the pic. Why do you call her Pudgy? By the way, someone stole her legs...;)

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Metullus
You hear them, too?

But of course. I love poetry, and they're Longfellows. :)

[Metullus]

Originally posted by jmercer
But of course. I love poetry, and they're Longfellows. :)

' His form was ponderous and his step was slow;
There never was so wise a man before;
He seemed the incarnate “I told you so.�'

I concede the point.:)

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
[B]Ravenwood, Browning most certainly made a .50

Really, care to put up a link of a Browning arms .50 Caliber rifle? (not a wildcat or aftermarket rechambering) There are other manufacturers who use the .50 BMG catridge, but Browning arms does not make a .50 caliber rifle. Again I ask, what type of .50 caliber? If it was the .50BMG, it was no hunting rifle (most hunting rifles are in the 6-10lb range, not 20-36lbs like most .50BMG rifles)


http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/index.asp

[Lavie Enrose]

Originally posted by mayday
Bigfoot is not stupid.

Smarter than the average bear.

[mayday]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
Really, care to put up a link of a Browning arms .50 Caliber rifle? (not a wildcat or aftermarket rechambering) There are other manufacturers who use the .50 BMG catridge, but Browning arms does not make a .50 caliber rifle. Again I ask, what type of .50 caliber? If it was the .50BMG, it was no hunting rifle (most hunting rifles are in the 6-10lb range, not 20-36lbs like most .50BMG rifles)


http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/index.asp

Raaavenwood...:rolleyes:

Browning .50 caliber has been the standard round for almost 100 yrs. for the military. Type in .50 caliber BMG cartridge on a search engine and see for yourself.

[webfusion]

mayday = cry for help
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++






For capturing this thing, if you persist with the 'trap' approach, you need to be real cunning, I mean, what are you planning on using as 'bait' for a trap?

How about a 5'2" female ?

A prototype Bigfoot trap can be seen in the background.
http://www.sweetsoulmate.com/images/belle1.jpg

[jmercer]

Dunno about Bigfoot, but you certainly got my attention. :D

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
Raaavenwood...:rolleyes:

Browning .50 caliber has been the standard round for almost 100 yrs. for the military. Type in .50 caliber BMG cartridge on a search engine and see for yourself.

If you go back, you will see that Browning never made a hunting rifle to use that round & Browning arms makes no rifle that uses that round. It is a military round used in the venerable M2 machine gun. There is no rifle called a .50 browning, that is a caliber...There are many types of .50BMG rifles around, all weighing way more than a real hunter would want to lug around in the woods, illegal to hunt with in most places (also useless for hunting, they destroy too much meat, in fact Dr. Browning developed the round for use against vehicles & equipment) unwieldly (most all are designed to be fired from an integral bipod) and none have iron sights, i.e. they must be used with a scope (average shot with a .50BMG rifle: 1500 meters, my ferret is zeroed at 500 meters) & the field of view of view of such high powered scopes becomes a limiting factor, & they are not designed for "snap" off handed shooting (again with most weighing in around the 30lb mark, this complicates the issue further) As both a hunter, gunsmith & a .50BMG shooter, I can firmly say that your friends anecdote is pure Bravo Sierra

[Metullus]

Desert Eagle, maybe? Not a Browning, but definately .50 cal.

If I were out Bigfeets hunting I would at least consider it as a backup....

[Ravenwood]

I personally would not waste my time with the .50 AE. The .454 Casull has more stopping power & range (IIRC, the velocity is like 300 fps faster than the .50AE), & as it is a revolver, stovepipe jams & failures to feed are not a problem. Mine shoots about 1" down from the point of aim at 100 meters (fixed sights) with the recoil comp. to a hot loaded .44 Ruger Super Blackhawk. I only use mine for steel target shooting, but I have heard of alaskan hunting guides carrying them for defense against grizzly bears...

[Metullus]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
I personally would not waste my time with the .50 AE. The .454 Casull has more stopping power & range (IIRC, the velocity is like 300 fps faster than the .50AE), & as it is a revolver, stovepipe jams & failures to feed are not a problem. Mine shoots about 1" down from the point of aim at 100 meters (fixed sights) with the recoil comp. to a hot loaded .44 Ruger Super Blackhawk. I only use mine for steel target shooting, but I have heard of alaskan hunting guides carrying them for defense against grizzly bears...

Granted. But it would be a better fit for mayday's story.

Personally I prefer the Blackhawk (feral hogs at close quarters make one a believer right quick), but never having fired the Desert Eagle in need I will not comment on its efficacy.

Whatever the case, a .50 cal handgun makes more sense in mayday's scenerio. And, to the uninitiated, it could look a lot like a very large Hi-Power, I suppose.

[mayday]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
If you go back, you will see that Browning never made a hunting rifle to use that round & Browning arms makes no rifle that uses that round. It is a military round used in the venerable M2 machine gun. There is no rifle called a .50 browning, that is a caliber...

Duuuhhh...like, YEA, it's a caliber!

You can buy a Barrett .50 caliber too.

Why are you trying to start an argument? Is it that much more exciting than sitting around collecting disability checks?

And why are you talking about handguns? You can't even stop a bear with the biggest handgun. I've shot a black bear with several 12 gauge slugs out of a shotgun at 20 feet and it didn't even incapacitate that bear (would have had to be a direct head shot). And a 12 gauge slug is a lot bigger than anything you can load in a handgun. I still have the bear's skull. Hated to kill it but I was afraid it was going to kill me.

[webfusion]

Why are you all going into this shoot-to-kill stuff?
The question was --- is bigfoot paranormal, not is bigfoot bulletproof.
However, mayday, you alone are responsible for the derail, with the questionably truthful anecdote about your friend who actually shot a Bigfoot with a .50 Browning (your words). Don't you dare get snippy and insulting with the posters here; I would venture to say that none of us are particularly thrilled with your replies so far.

So, you insist that this is not a joke -----
"If I didn't feel strongly about this I wouldn't be spending time on it."

Assuming you are serious (and as you can plainly see, nobody is taking you seriously, especially me) ------ there is a good place to start your search for Sasquatch.

Write to the the recreation minister of British Columbia, Kenneth Kiernan. He has made an official announcement that the Provincial Museum was seeking all tangible Sasquatch evidence. You perhaps can garner some valuable clues in your quest.

"The list of the dozens of people who claim to have seen a Sasquatch is indeed impressive, and includes doctors and scientists, as well as a Portland, Oregon newspaper editor."

My answer to your question, as far as I can see from an objective viewpoint, is "No" JREF cannot provide you with $1-million for the capture of this mysterious animal. It simply does not fall into a category of unexplained science.

However, there is only one real way to find out if the JREF Challenge Administrator will consider you to be an "applicant" -- apply. It costs you basically nothing, and you'll have your reply soon enough.

This was the most helpful posting you can hope to get from anyone here, I'll wager. Take it or leave it.

[Metullus]

Originally posted by mayday
Duuuhhh...like, YEA, it's a caliber!

You can buy a Barrett .50 caliber too.

Why are you trying to start an argument? Is it that much more exciting than sitting around collecting disability checks?

And why are you talking about handguns? You can't even stop a bear with the biggest handgun. I've shot a black bear with several 12 gauge slugs out of a shotgun at 20 feet and it didn't even incapacitate that bear (would have had to be a direct head shot). And a 12 gauge slug is a lot bigger than anything you can load in a handgun. I still have the bear's skull. Hated to kill it but I was afraid it was going to kill me.

Actually, Mayday, I brought up the handguns, and I did so only because I did not figure that your friend would be running around in the woods with either a Barrett or a BMG. If somebody was out in the woods hunting or camping and managed to get off a couple of .50 cal rounds in the circumstances you described I figured it was more likely a hand gun than a rifle. I have seen more large cal revolvers and pistols in the woods than .50 cal long guns. Indeed, I always carry either a .44 Ruger or a .45 Colt when I hunt or ride back country. I have even seen a couple of .50 AEs, so that does not seem so wierd to me.

I have never seen a .50 cal long gun outside a gun range or gun show. I have seen a .55 Boys when hunting (I figured he was gonna shoot elephants, although they are no longer common in Idaho). I don't think I would like to go into Alaskan bear country with just a 12 gauge, but thats just me.

Anyway, it is obvious that my 2 cents worth is not worth the money, so...;)

By the way, you never did tell my why you called him Pudgy.

I had a 16 hand plus mule I called Goliath, but my brother (who had a great little Paint for a trailhorse) called him Gaspipe for no reason I could fathom and refused to ride behind me.

[Zep]

Tying the topic back together...

A GEN-U-WINE Bigfoots gun! Just sneak up behind a bigfoot believer and fire away for maximum effect!

http://www.buttercupdays.co.uk/images/0775.jpg.jpg

[mayday]

Originally posted by webfusion
Why are you all going into this shoot-to-kill stuff?
The question was --- is bigfoot paranormal, not is bigfoot bulletproof.
However, mayday, you alone are responsible for the derail, with the questionably truthful anecdote about your friend who actually shot a Bigfoot with a .50 Browning (your words). Don't you dare get snippy and insulting with the posters here; I would venture to say that none of us are particularly thrilled with your replies so far...snip



Webfusion, is there someone twisting your arm and pressing your face against the computer screen and forcing you to read and respond to my posts?
Why are you fussing at me? We're just having a discussion here. I can post a pic of my bear skull if you want.:)

[webfusion]

In other words, you don't want to apply, and you don't really want advice, and you don't care to tone down your snippy replies, and you just wanted to come on the forums to play some games? How old are you? 12?

OK, that's fine, so long as we understand each other.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52563
===============================
Zep, the pop gun was perfect!

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by mayday
And why are you talking about handguns? You can't even stop a bear with the biggest handgun. I've shot a black bear with several 12 gauge slugs out of a shotgun at 20 feet and it didn't even incapacitate that bear (would have had to be a direct head shot). And a 12 gauge slug is a lot bigger than anything you can load in a handgun. I still have the bear's skull. Hated to kill it but I was afraid it was going to kill me.

Wrong again Mayday, as we see here, SSK makes a .50 Alaskan pistol:
http://www.sskindustries.com/encore.htm
And if you knew anything about bears, the head is the worse plase to shoot one to incapacitate it, esp. with something as underpowered as a 12 guage (you stated that you are 5'2", I hardly think you would be able to get off more than 1 3" 12 guage slug if a bear was coming at you from 20 feet away. There is a bear skull in the local hunting museum that stopped 5 .44 magnum rounds starting at 50 yards range, the bear was dazed enough that the guy's buddy was able to dispatch it with a 30-06 to the heart. Obviously you have no knowledge of real world firearms or hunting and are now flailing around wildly, having been called on the spot. Webfusion summed it up best in his last post, welcome to the ignore box, maytroll

[mayday]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
Wrong again Mayday, as we see here, SSK makes a .50 Alaskan pistol:
http://www.sskindustries.com/encore.htm
And if you knew anything about bears, the head is the worse plase to shoot one to incapacitate it, esp. with something as underpowered as a 12 guage (you stated that you are 5'2", I hardly think you would be able to get off more than 1 3" 12 guage slug if a bear was coming at you from 20 feet away. There is a bear skull in the local hunting museum that stopped 5 .44 magnum rounds starting at 50 yards range, the bear was dazed enough that the guy's buddy was able to dispatch it with a 30-06 to the heart. Obviously you have no knowledge of real world firearms or hunting and are now flailing around wildly, having been called on the spot. Webfusion summed it up best in his last post, welcome to the ignore box, maytroll

This wasn't a discussion about firearms, or shooting, but this loser came on here hijacking the thread, arguing for the sake of argument (as if there is something magical about an Alaskan black powder pistol or that a bear hunter isn't supposed to shoot a bear in the head, lol) and then calls me a troll? God, I can't stand people like that. I hope it sticks to it's promise and steers clear of me.
What an idiot.

Anyhow...I dug out the skull from that she bear I had to shoot. At the time (about 6 yrs. ago) I had a Doberman who loved to hunt. She went wild barking about 11AM and I grabbed my shotgun and ran into the woods(a Kmart special double barrell) I saw it was about 150 feet from the house. In the woods she was standing on her hind legs looking at me. I braced myself and shot in that direction(about 20 ft. away and hit her in the neck. She took off into the brush and the dog chased after her. The bear then headed through the woods on a deer trail then jumped into the brush and the dog flushed it out again. As the bear ran out of the brush I put another slug into her side from about 15-20 ft away. The dog kept chasing her but I had no more bullets so I ran back to the house and when I reloaded and followed the dog's barking I found where the bear dropped (about 500 ft from where I last shot it.) I tried to bury it in a shallow grave but the skunks got to it and boy did it stink for a good while. After the skunks finished it off the following year I went back and couldn't find the claws or anything, just the skull and a few bones. So I took it.
Here it is. And I have included a picture of my backwoods buddy and family protector, Bob (though he is usually a very clean dog, he had been playing in the dirt when I took that pic.)
I just wanted to share it.
Metullus, are you going to the bigfoot hunting expedition in
Washington state in August? I certainly am.

http://www.geocities.com/artraveller/photopageflag4.html

[Metullus]

Originally posted by mayday

Metullus, are you going to the bigfoot hunting expedition in
Washington state in August? I certainly am.

http://www.geocities.com/artraveller/photopageflag4.html

How much beer are you taking. Scott still votes for tequilla.

I have no objection to chasing wild geese, having done so on a great many occaisions in the past (I am not infrequently the token skeptic on these things - Scott goes for the girls and the sheer shreakin' hell of it) so I will think about it. I must admit that I have little patience with the fervent reactionaries one so often encounters but a party is a party, so who knows.

I wonder, though, what it is that this trip offers that the last half-dozen or so did not. Because so far I have seen zip-nada-nothing to suggest to be that there is any there there. I have had many earnest believers try to convince me that I saw something that I did not, heard something that was not there, smelled what was not there. On one cccaision an "investigator" took a photo of my dog (a mid-size Newfie named Bridga) swearing that she was a sasquatch. When his error was pointed out, he explained that the sasquatch was actually behind Bridga in the photo and he would blow up the photo so we could see it... I'm still waiting.

[mayday]

Originally posted by Metullus
How much beer are you taking. Scott still votes for tequilla.

I have no objection to chasing wild geese, having done so on a great many occaisions in the past (I am not infrequently the token skeptic on these things - Scott goes for the girls and the sheer shreakin' hell of it) so I will think about it. I must admit that I have little patience with the fervent reactionaries one so often encounters but a party is a party, so who knows.

I wonder, though, what it is that this trip offers that the last half-dozen or so did not. Because so far I have seen zip-nada-nothing to suggest to be that there is any there there. I have had many earnest believers try to convince me that I saw something that I did not, heard something that was not there, smelled what was not there. On one cccaision an "investigator" took a photo of my dog (a mid-size Newfie named Bridga) swearing that she was a sasquatch. When his error was pointed out, he explained that the sasquatch was actually behind Bridga in the photo and he would blow up the photo so we could see it... I'm still waiting.

Oh really? This will be my first expedition. How many have you been on? It sounds like a tremendous amount of fun.

[Metullus]

Probably 7 or 8 since 1975. Some have been fun, others a sore trial. Most were a total waste of time and energy, to be frank.

The last few times I went were as a favor for a couple of freinds and true-believers. Two were with "film makers" who were absolutely convinced that they would film bigfeets. They even employed "certified" bigfeets trackers (one of whom I later ran into on the Snake river in Idaho - turns out he is a river guide that was unemployed that summer. I asked him how he became a "certified" bugfeets tracker - he said he answered an add in a Cal State Humboldt student paper.)

[Metullus]

The thing is, in my experience most of the people that take the trouble to go out on one of these things really, really believe that:

1. There is such an animal;
2. They will see one this trip;
3. The trip will be a failure if they don't find something.

As a result, they latch on to everything as being bigfeets related: a sound in the brush is bigfeets, a tuft of hair is left by bigfeets, a bear print (I actually heard it argued) is actually sasquatch masquarading as bear, a large dog is bigfeets on all fours. If they don't find one, its because "they saw, heard, smelled, ESPd us coming".

Only once did I here somebody suggest that we were looking for a will-o-wisp, and she was verbally castigated rather forcefully.