Today is Ash Wednesday.

[alfaniner]

Today is Ash Wednesday, the day when Catholics (and others?) appear with smudges of dirt on their foreheads. It used to have some meaning for me. Then I started thinking about the "rules" I was told. You're not supposed to wash it off intentionally, etc. (This was about third grade.) The other Obligation that confused me was the Blessing of the Throats (with crossed candles). I remember asking "why" this and "why" that and never really getting a satisfactory answer.

Now I'm a little bit more growed up and have my own answers, thank you...

[phildonnia]

The ashes are a sign of humility and mortality. I guess that washing it off would be a sign of vanity. On the other hand, leaving it on in public would seem to violate the Lord's explicit instructions in Matt 6:16-18.

Not sure what's up with the candles.

[c4ts]

*Waits for Jack T. Chick to shout "It's the mark of Cain! It means they're communists!"*

[alfaniner]

Well, if there is one thing they did get right, it's the phrase "Remember, man, that you were dust, and to dust you shall return." Of course, this was before Carl Sagan came up with the phrase "star stuff."

[maddog]

I dunno if it's still the case, but it used to be that more Catholics went to church on Ash Wednesday than on any other day, except for Christmas and Easter. I take it as an indication of the mortality preoccupation that humanity has in general -- not to mention that so much of religious belief is based on "what happens when we die?" and the search for something beyond -- the Ash Wednesday crowds are just an affirmation of that.

[KingMerv00]

I knew an atheist (a woman) who goes to a Catholic college and didn't get ashes. To keep up apperences she put black eye shadow on her forehead. I think it worked.

[Brown]

In my Lutheran upbringing, we put ash on our foreheads at night during an exceptionally boring church service. The significance of the ash was always "explained," but the explanation seemed to me to be a lot of double-talk. At the time, I was not concerned about religious double-talk, because I assumed that the Church always had a good reason for everything it did (an assumption that I later concluded was unfounded). The ash that we used was always light gray, and was virtually invisible unless you knew to look for it.

Growing up, I don't recall seeing ash on anyone's forehead during the day.

But several years ago, I was vacationing at a resort in California, and I saw something bizarre. I saw what at first appeared to be dozens of people with deformed faces. My first thought was that it was some sort of convention of burn victims, but I knew such a convention wouldn't make sense.

What had happened, as I later discovered, was that many of these people had attended an Ash Wednesday sunrise service, and had smeared their faces with a dark, easily visible ash. From a distance, the ash appeared to be a horrid deformity.

[elle_inquisitor]

Here's an explanation for The Blessing of the Throat from a Catholic perspective. I had forgotten about that ritual. I think it is suppose to serve as a reminder of the necessity and purpose of suffering and pain as a faithful Catholic.

http://www.catholicculture.org/lit/prayers/view.cfm?id=733

[nelsondogg]

Originally posted by elle_inquisitor
Here's an explanation for The Blessing of the Throat from a Catholic perspective. I had forgotten about that ritual. I think it is suppose to serve as a reminder of the necessity and purpose of suffering and pain as a faithful Catholic.

http://www.catholicculture.org/lit/prayers/view.cfm?id=733

Maybe it just give the priests a chance to size up some of them little boys' throats...

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by nelsondogg
Maybe it just give the priests a chance to size up some of them little boys' throats...

When I was a very young little Catholic monkey, I thought it was actually called "Ass Wednesday", which might have caused some problems had I remained an altar boy.

(I hope I can say "Ass Wednesday", the joke will be lost if it gets asterisked.)

[Yahweh]

A March '04 FStDT Classic:
*** "Most Informed Critique of Another Religion" Award ***

"I cannot believe what I saw on the news last night*... there was an interview w/a Catholic Parishoner... Full-face, on his forehead was a large black smudge... this mark bore no resemblance to a cross whatsoever. In my entire life, never had I seen this sight!

I chalked it up to just a real radical person. The last time I saw a smudge like that was on Charles Manson. Then, it showed the people coming out of the church a moment later. I sat and stared in total amazement... people walking out of that Catholic church had the same black smudge on their forehead!!! Right smack dab in the center!

I have never felt such a cold chill as that which enveloped me. I tingled all over in stunned amazement. I told my husband that I wondered if this was just the 'forerunner' [to the Mark of the Beast]? It made an huge impact on me, and it should have done so for the entire Christian population. I don't know why it was 'black' or why it was in the center of the forehead, but one thing I do know, it was a bone-chilling sight!"
- Smiley4554, Atlantis Rising Forums

* The above was posted a day or so after Ash Wednesday.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Today is Ash Wednesday, the day when Catholics (and others?) appear with smudges of dirt on their foreheads.

It is also done in many (but a variable amount, within the denominations) of the "high" churches, like the Anglican/Presbyterian/Methodist, etc. Since it is commonly associated with Catholicism, I think that a majority of protestant churches don't do it. But many do, it is probably dependent upon the individual pastors and their congregations.

The ashes are the remnant of burnt palms distributed on Palm Sunday.

Here's something most people (most Catholics too) don't know. Ash Wednesday is NOT a holy day of obligation. But because you get something (ashes, cool!), most people think that it is.

You're not supposed to wash it off intentionally, etc.

I've never heard that one. Actually, I was told that the time to do it was before you go to bed, so that would be intentional. Probably different people tell different people different things.

The ashes are an outward mark of humility and repentance and mortality. They are not comparable to the Eucharist, which is a sacrament. The ashes are a symbol.



St. Blaise day (2/3), the day after the Presentation of the Lord (2/2). I can assure you that the Blessing of the Throats has NEVER been a holy day of obligation, yet the coolness factor (blessed throat? cool!) makes people elevate it I guess. The Presentation of the Lord used to be the obligatory Mass, but it is no longer that, and deffo Blaise's feast overshadows it.


[B]I remember asking "why" this and "why" that and never really getting a satisfactory answer.

Why to what? The obligations? No Catholic is obligated to get ashes/throat blessed. Ummm...Ash Wednesday *might* have been obligatory pre Vatican-II, I'll have to ask around.

Most likely you wouldn't be satisfied with any of my answers or explanations, but if you have some specific items or questions I can do my best.

If you have a problem with the *concept* of symbolism, or, grace through symbolism, that is a fundamental issue that I almost certainly couldn't convince you to accept.

Now I'm a little bit more growed up and have my own answers, thank you...

Yes, we all have our own answers. :)

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by phildonnia
The ashes are a sign of humility and mortality. I guess that washing it off would be a sign of vanity. On the other hand, leaving it on in public would seem to violate the Lord's explicit instructions in Matt 6:16-18.

Not sure what's up with the candles.

Right. In my college days, Ash Wednesday was actually the day when it was COOL to be Catholic. Overflowing Masses, people walking with ashes on their foreheads all day, even in secular and hedonistic Ann Arbor.

I think that the intent in Matt 6 is to avoid the exuberant and selfconscious displays. If ashes are a default sign of vanity, why not the cloth/collar? A crucifix? It has more to do with what is in someone's heart I think and God is the judge of that. We should all be careful to recognize our reasons for doing things. In my opinion, bearing an outward sign of one's particular religion is no sin at all, just for the mere fact that is.

St. Blaise's day is a nice tradition, and the people who are into it these days are almost exclusively pre-Vatican-II in mentality. Communicants excepted of course.

-Elliot

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by elliotfc


If ashes are a default sign of vanity, why not the cloth/collar? A crucifix?
-Elliot

Indeed..

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by maddog
I dunno if it's still the case, but it used to be that more Catholics went to church on Ash Wednesday than on any other day, except for Christmas and Easter. I take it as an indication of the mortality preoccupation that humanity has in general -- not to mention that so much of religious belief is based on "what happens when we die?" and the search for something beyond -- the Ash Wednesday crowds are just an affirmation of that.

You are correct.

As for the reasons for that...I think one of the top 3 is the coolness factor. As for the mortality preoccupation...I don't think that is it really. If that was the case, people would attend funerals with more frequency I think (how many funerals of acquaintances do we blow off?). Another reason is it being the kick-off to Lent, you know, the season where you give up donuts. The third reason is the mistaken and pervasive belief that it is a holy day of obligation.

To reiterate, if people were really into the search for something beyond, I think funerals would be better attended. I attend about 100 a year, and they are usually quite sparse.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by KingMerv00
I knew an atheist (a woman) who goes to a Catholic college and didn't get ashes. To keep up apperences she put black eye shadow on her forehead. I think it worked.

That's just it, she is caving in to the same thing they accuse Catholics of caving in to.

It's fun to point out the hypocrisy in others, isn't it? Thank God for cynicism.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by nelsondogg
Maybe it just give the priests a chance to size up some of them little boys' throats...

This is the correct reason, thanks for pointing it out.

In addition, there is some confusion about the reasons for diapers. What it is, is, it gives the father/mother a great excuse to carefully examine their children's genitalia and cop some feels.

The important thing? See the ugliness, and apply it whenever you can. Gives you a euphoric feeling and makes you feel superior to others. The great thing is, the more you practice it, the better you get at it, and the more validation, and the positive feedback will transform you into, well, you know. A skeptic! Now, I happen to be skeptical of skepticism, if only because they say the ugliest things, and have the ugliest thoughts, yet I recognize that I have the ability to practice it too. Damn human nature. I try to find difference, and resonance keeps happening.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Indeed..

As always Diogenes, I admire your consistency. :)

I do think that the opinion that all outward signs of religion are *bad* is superior to the opinion that only some outward signs of religion are *bad*. It doesn't mean I agree with it, but it is deffo a superior opinion.

As for people freaking out about black smudges on people's foreheads...the cynic in me thinks that is just over the top "ha ha I can say funny things about religious people Jebus Jebus Jebus" talk. But if it is sincere, I guess people get freaked out about anything. I can think up about 23,998,134 things that are more freaky than black smudges on a forehead, but Diogenes, you'd no doubt chalk it up to my excellent imagination, so let me beat you to that punch. :)

-Elliot

[Skeptical Greg]

All I can say is, I'm glad that putting ashes on ones forehead has evolved into tossing out strings of beads, and women exposing their breasts..:D

Anyway, it's Thursday now. What's supposed to happen on Thursday?

[Skeptical Greg]

All I can say is, I'm glad that putting ashes on ones forehead has evolved into tossing out strings of beads, and women exposing their breasts..:D

Anyway, it's Thursday now. What's supposed to happen on Thursday?

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Diogenes
All I can say is, I'm glad that putting ashes on ones forehead has evolved into tossing out strings of beads, and women exposing their breasts..:D

Anyway, it's Thursday now. What's supposed to happen on Thursday?

Silly rabbit, on Thursday I stop by the randi forum to see what people are saying about Wednesday. :)

Your post made me laugh out loud, nice one Dio. :)

-Elliot

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Anyway, it's Thursday now. What's supposed to happen on Thursday?

Traditionally, Thursday is when you plead out and pay your fine.

[maddog]

Originally posted by elliotfc
Damn human nature. I try to find difference, and resonance keeps happening.



That's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard! I'm sitting here with tears rolling down my cheeks, it's so beautiful!! (well, maybe my butt cheeks.... sorry for the visual on that)

Butt seriously, that cracked me up!