An Explanation

[Skeptic]

Why am I "picking" on Abbas?

The same reason Churchill "picked on" Hitler.

Everything points to the fact that Abbas is a "peace-monger": talks about peace and reconciliation as long as israel gives him concessionsm, but, in the meantime, rearms Hamas (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52742), has official Palestinian TV call for the "stage plan" for israel's destruction (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52705), executes "collaborators" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52742) (any anti-DP people ready with a criticism?), calls israel the "zionist enemy" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/05/world/main664888.shtml) , and demands that any "peace" will include the destruction of israel by demographic means (http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/nfo/article.cfm?id=2315).

And this is, mind you, only the highlights (or lowlights) from the latest, oh, two months.

I claim that this shows Abbas' true intentions--not surprising, of course, since the honorable Dr. Abbas' Ph.D. thesis was on why israel must be destroyed with extensive information on how the zionists faked the holocaust, and who was Arafat's crony for 30 years or so.

I say that, like Churchill said about Hitler, that to talk with Abbas is a waste of time, a futile attempt of appeasing someone hell-bent on your destruction by hook or by crook. And I will continue to say this--so that nobody will ever have the excuse to say, "we don't know", or "we took a chance".

If I am wrong, and Abbas has in fact changed his spots and wants true peace, I would be willing to dance naked in Times Square wearing a sign "I am an idiot" as I paint myself blue. It would be worth it. But I doubt it. Alas, many more jews will have to die, I am afraid, until we wake up from THIS "peace" fantasy, if israel will not be destroyed in the meantime by it.

All the evidence points in the direction of Abbas merely implementing the "stage plan" (as the Palestinian ambassador to Iran pointed out). The question is merely whether israel will wake up in time to fight against its destruction or only when it's too late.

But as depressing as the reality is--Sharon, the old warrior, essentially begging a holocaust denier to let him make Gaza judenrein together and calling this "moderation" and "progress"--denial is even worse.

[Hutch]

Congratulations.

Anyone who can make Sharon and GW Bush look like liberal peaceniks is worth congratulating, if for nothing else than the mental imagery that picture requires.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Hutch
Congratulations.

Anyone who can make Sharon and GW Bush look like liberal peaceniks is worth congratulating, if for nothing else than the mental imagery that picture requires.

I don't see why not. After all, people had no problem at all giving Yasser Arafat, the father of modern terrorism and the greatest killer of jews since Hitler, the Nobel peace prize.

If you could do one, you could do the other.

[corplinx]

How about we wait a month before you pick the man apart? Let's give him some time to settle in and then gauge his performance in some empirical fashion then.

[SezMe]

Originally posted by corplinx
How about we wait a month before you pick the man apart? Let's give him some time to settle in and then gauge his performance in some empirical fashion then.
In a moment of rarity, I agree with corp here. While Abbas may be in a position of power, his actual power is limited. He has a very thin line of action that he can take and has to consolidate his real political power before the behemoth can change directions.

For example, maybe letting loathsome crap on TV is a way of letting the war mongers have their say while he slowly undercuts them from behind.

But I am NOT disputing Skeptic's facts or line of reasoning. He may well be right. But I'd like to give Abbas a little rope to see.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by SezMe
In a moment of rarity, I agree with corp here. While Abbas may be in a position of power, his actual power is limited. He has a very thin line of action that he can take and has to consolidate his real political power before the behemoth can change directions.

For example, maybe letting loathsome crap on TV is a way of letting the war mongers have their say while he slowly undercuts them from behind.

But I am NOT disputing Skeptic's facts or line of reasoning. He may well be right. But I'd like to give Abbas a little rope to see.

And I, on the other hand, am with Skeptic. Whatever political power Abbas can garner will put him further on the path of seeking the destruction of the state of Israel. He didn't get to where he is by being a sheep unless you believe he is a sheep in a wolf's clothing and has any intention of disrobing. Me don't think so. I draw the line at painting myself blue, however. Naked in Times Square I can handle.

[Skeptic]

For example, maybe letting loathsome crap on TV is a way of letting the war mongers have their say while he slowly undercuts them from behind.

(Sigh)

Let's put it this way. Suppose, for the sake of the argument, that Bush has a psychotic attack, and puts on a new PBS show, sponsored by the Republican party, called, "Let's kill all the n-gg-rs". Would you then seriously consider the possiblity that, to the untrained eye, that might look like racism--sort of like the "let's kill all the jews" semons on PA national TV--but, perhaps, it is merely be the president's way of FIGHTING racism in the republican party--letting them have their say while "slowly undercutting them from behind"?

Makes sense? Of course not. It's pure rationalization, and an utterly absurd one, at that. If the president really did something like that, he would be instantly branding himself as a racist (or, more likely, as having simply gone insane.) Anybody who made such excuses for the president as you offer for Abbas would be, quite rightly, considered not quite sane themselves. They won't even be considered racists--racists try to find excuses for racist behavior that are at least slightly more plausible.

Yet when it comes to "explaining" why Abbas allows this, all of a sudden perfectly sane people, who have no ill will towards jews (like yourself), offer such rationalizations as "sane", "sophisticated", "moderate", "hopeful" analysis of Abbas' intentions--while the rather obvious truth staring them in the face is called "extremist paranoia" or the equivalent (not by you personally, I mean in general).

Surely you have enough sense to realize that if somebody offered to you this "rationalization" of someone allowing murderous hatered on their TV stations as "really" being for peace with the group targeted for genoicde by the hateful sermons from ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE AT ALL, you'd burst out laughing at the absurdity.

Why give the PLO the benefit of the doubt? Why? Is there any group of people on this planet who had proven themselves LESS trustworthy than the PLO?

The truth is, the disagreement between Hamas and Abbas is solely about the means, not the goals--as the PA's representatives in the recent "terrorists-are-us" conference in Syria, after Abbas' election, and with his blessing (with Hizbullah, Islamic Jihand, Hamas, and the PA conferring) openly stated, repeatedly.

I think we thus have far, far more than enough evidence to be sure what Abbas' goals are, and that the sole point of distinction between him and Hamas is as to the means.

Yes this conclusion--the most obvious one based both on his recent actions and on his history--is somehow dismissed, in preference for fantasies of the "he is a moderate who wants peace" type--the very same fantasies dashed so cruelly with Arafat before him. Why? Well, becasue this is what many israelies and others WANT to be true. But wishing does not make it so, as we learned very well after Oslo.

[Skeptic]

Yet when it comes to "explaining" why Abbas allows this, all of a sudden perfectly sane people, who have no ill will towards jews (like yourself)

Just occured to me this might be misuderstood due to unclear punctuation: what I mean here, of course, is that you have NO ill will towards jews, NOT that there are sane people who, unlike you, have no ill will towards the jews.

[DanishDynamite]

No explanation necessary, Skeptic. You're an extremist. You constantly stoke the fires of mistrust and divisiveness. You obviously aren't interested in a peace, except perhaps through a "final solution".

Luckily, your kind aren't in power. Even Sharon is more sensible than that.

[Skeptic]

No explanation necessary,...

...Mr. Churchill...

You're an extremist. You constantly stoke the fires of mistrust and divisiveness.

...which is why Mr. Chamberline had instructed me to ignore you, now that the winds of changed are promising peace in our time, as our succesful meeting in Munich with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, showed the world.

Luckily, your kind aren't in power. Even...

...Chamberline...

is more sensible than that.

Oops! Wrong century.

Sorry about that--I'm sure it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT this time.

Quick question, DD: how many lives, do you suppose, would have been saved if "my kind" was around to tell about the Oslo fraud in 1993?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by corplinx
How about we wait a month before you pick the man apart? Let's give him some time to settle in and then gauge his performance in some empirical fashion then.

Abbas okays 'collaborator' executions - Feb. 16, 2005 22:20 (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1108583510924) By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

In the first decision of its kind since he succeeded Yasser Arafat, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has ratified death sentences against three Palestinians found guilty of "collaboration" with Israel.

Sakher Bsaisso, a senior Fatah official who also serves as PA governor of the northern Gaza Strip, confirmed on Wednesday that Abbas had authorized death sentences against three alleged "collaborators."

Bsaisso said the three had been convicted of assisting Israel in the assassination of a number of Palestinian activists in the Gaza Strip over the past four years, but refused to elaborate.

Bsaisso said Abbas's decision to carry out the death sentences came after PA mufti Sheikh Ikrimah Sabri authorized the executions as required by law.

[Skeptic]

Bsaisso said the three had been convicted of assisting Israel in the assassination of a number of Palestinian activists in the Gaza Strip over the past four years, but refused to elaborate.

Just the man to fight Hamas, don't you think?

[Mycroft]

Palestinian Cops Can't Stop Militants

KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip - Palestinian policemen, who have been given the task of restraining militants, say they can't or won't do the job. Interviewed at their front-line positions, some say they feel sympathy for the gunmen, while others fear getting shot at by Israeli troops.

The shortcomings of Palestinian police were evident last week when officers stood by as Hamas militants fired dozens of rockets and mortar rounds at Jewish settlements in Gaza. Officers also did nothing when gunmen broke into Gaza's central jail, killing two inmates and abducting a third who was later slain.

"This is all part of the state of chaos we have been living in," said Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' security adviser, Jibril Rajoub.

The poor performance is a result of years of rampant corruption, rivalries among commanders of numerous police forces set up by the late Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) and a lack of discipline and training...

Part of that "poor performance" could be the practice of hiring Hamas militants into the security forces. That would be like hiring gangsters into the police force.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Bsaisso said the three had been convicted of assisting Israel in the assassination of a number of Palestinian activists in the Gaza Strip over the past four years, but refused to elaborate.

Just the man to fight Hamas, don't you think?

P.S.

To nobody's surprise, it turns out that the Palestinians promised to stop such executions to the EU--in 2001; yet another lie.

But I'm sure a man who just authorized the kangaroo-court executions for assisting "the zionist enemy" is a man of peace and a moderate.