Out-of-body experience clues may hide in mind

[Chocolate Chip]

Came across this, it's a bit dated, but thought it might be an interesting read. Could be a physiological explanation for out of body experiences. Not sure whether to post it in the medical topic though.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/19/coolsc.outofbody/index.html


Neurology researchers in Switzerland report the case of a woman who described "floating above her own body and watching herself" while she was undergoing testing and treatment for epilepsy. The strange experience only occurred when one particular part of her brain, the angular gyrus in the right cortex, was stimulated with an electrode. And it happened every time the angular gyrus was stimulated.

I know that in another thread we are discussing memory aberrations and how the mind/brain can cause a sense of deja-vu, I thought this might be of interest to some of the Believers out there too.

[Chocolate Chip]

Could a moderator please move this thread to the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology part of the forum?

[jmercer]

ARGH! They don't indicate one way or another if what she "observed" while "out of body" was accurate!!

That would have been a pretty darned important insight...

[Beth]

Originally posted by jmercer
ARGH! They don't indicate one way or another if what she "observed" while "out of body" was accurate!!

That would have been a pretty darned important insight...

After reading the article, I don't think it would have told us anything. She was awake and aware and they hadn't expected the experience, so they hadn't planned for it. They probably didn't have anything set up that she could see while "out of body" but that she couldn't see normally.

Interesting article btw. Thanks for the link chip.

Beth

[jmercer]

Hm... yes, I think you're right. It probably wouldn't have helped much because she would have been able to describe her surroundings regardless. Too bad...

[Chocolate Chip]

Originally posted by jmercer
ARGH! They don't indicate one way or another if what she "observed" while "out of body" was accurate!!

That would have been a pretty darned important insight...
Some follow up on this:

from:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2266740.stm

She told the doctors: "I see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk.Further stimulations led to a feeling of lightness and "floating" close to the ceiling.

The patient was then asked to watch her real legs as current was passed through the electrodes attached to her head.

This time she reported her legs "becoming shorter". If bent, her legs appeared to be moving quickly towards her face, causing her to take evasive action. "
Beth:
Interesting article btw. Thanks for the link chip
Your Welcome.

[Explorer]

Several years ago I was lying on a couch asleep on a lazy Sunday afternoon, and seemed to partially awake. My body felt very light and I felt as if I was rising up, feet first, from my lying position. The feeling soon left me and I awoke normally and wondered what the cause of this sensation was.

I have never ever had this type of experience before, nor since, but I had a strange dream the other night when my sleeping brain simulated a trip in an aircraft. I experienced vividly, the sensation of lift, and the G-forces of the aircraft as it banked and descended.

This was just a dream, I know, but it illustrates how the sleeping/partially conscious brain can simulate real experiences that leave a lasting impression.

[rppa]

Originally posted by jmercer
ARGH! They don't indicate one way or another if what she "observed" while "out of body" was accurate!!

That would have been a pretty darned important insight...

Why?

My mother-in-law had an OOB experience during an emergency procedure associated with my wife's birth. She accurately reported the medical conversation that occurred while she was "unconscious". The doctors were amazed by this, since they assumed she was unaware of her surroundings. But she was, after all, in the room where this conversation was taking place, with functioning ears. It merely shows that "consciousness" is not as simple a matter as we thought, particularly when anesthesia is involved.

[jmercer]

It would only be important if the results were false. If they were false, then we could rule out any kind of "real" OOB experience. We could safely assume that whatever she experienced was strictly hallucinatory.

A "true" result - an accurate portrayal of circumstances that she shouldn't be aware of - would indicate that something else had happened. (Such as still receiving highly accurate information from her senses while "under", allowing the subject to describe an amazingly accurate representation of what transpired.)

You have a wonderful (if chilling) point about conciousness and anesthesia. I read an article some months ago in the NY Times about "anesthesia paralysis", where the patient appears unconscious, but is fully aware of their surroundings and what is happening to them. (Pain, too. :( )

Nasty, nasty thought. (shudder)

[Beth]

I did a quick search on the term angular gyrus and found this site http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/obe.htm which contained the following quote:

A nurse at Hartford Hospital states that she worked with a patient described an NDE in which she saw a red shoe on the roof of the hospital during her OBE, which a janitor then retrieved. Kenneth Ring describes three such cases involving shoes, shoelaces and a yellow smock and also tells a story from a Seattle social worker who also retrieved a shoe outside a window ledge that was identified by a patient during an NDE.

A couple of cites (one for a book, one for an article) are given, but it's unclear where the quote comes from. Anyone heard of this before? I don't know if the "Journal of Near Death Studies" is a legimate peer-reviewed publication or not, nor can I easily get access the issue in question. The book cited does not appear to be a solid reference, but more like a pop psychology book - interesting reading but not to be taken too seriously.

Anyone know anything more about this? If true, it would seem to verify OBE's, but I find it difficult to believe that a solid verification would not have received substantial media attention, which this apparently has not. I am curious, but skeptical.

Beth

[jmercer]

Intriguing, if the accounts could be verified. Even so... there's still room to question if patient could have become aware of these objects in some way without realizing (or remembering) how. It sounds unlikely, I know - but it's a lot more likely than attributing their knowledge to a psychic "roaming around". Occam's razor, etc.

I don't have any idea if the Journal is peer-reviewed or not. It would also be interesting to find that out, too.