Large numbers of Iraqis showing patriotism...

[dsm]

National Public Radio is reporting that the tide of Iraqis out of Iraq that the UN relief agencies have been expecting is actually being seen in reverse. In Jordan, for instance, many Iraqis are going home to defend their country against the invaders.

They're going home to defend their tyrant against their liberators?

:confused:

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by dsm
National Public Radio is reporting that the tide of Iraqis out of Iraq that the UN relief agencies have been expecting is actually being seen in reverse. In Jordan, for instance, many Iraqis are going home to defend their country against the invaders.

They're going home to defend their tyrant against their liberators?

:confused:

Maybe if the US had not had such a long history of duplicitous behaviour, including during Gulf War I, when it encouraged a revolt and then failed to support it, then the US would be seen as liberators. once bitten, twice shy.

[dsm]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Maybe if the US had not had such a long history of duplicitous behaviour, including during Gulf War I, when it encouraged a revolt and then failed to support it, then the US would be seen as liberators. once bitten, twice shy.

Or maybe if the world news organizations had made the proper deals with Al-Jazeera (et.al.) long ago, then the people of Iraq (and other Middle East nations) would have a better understanding of what the US is about... ;)

[iain]

Originally posted by dsm
National Public Radio is reporting that the tide of Iraqis out of Iraq that the UN relief agencies have been expecting is actually being seen in reverse. In Jordan, for instance, many Iraqis are going home to defend their country against the invaders.

They're going home to defend their tyrant against their liberators?

:confused: The trouble is that you see liberator and they see invader. Who has the most accurate view remains to be seen, but I think it would have been much easier for an invading force to be seen as liberators if it had been done with the support of the UN (even if that meant delaying the invasion until later in the year).

The US is one of the most PR-savvy countries in the world and yet it is losing the PR battle big time. Even in the UK, only half the population support the war; in Spain (another US ally) only 20% do. This is not to say that the war is right or wrong, just that the US has clearly failed so far to get world opinion anywhere near behind it.

Maybe understanding the viewpoint of these Iraqis is the first step to changing it.

[richardm]

You never know, they might be rushing back because they think the time has come to take part in overthrowing the regime ;)

[Jon_in_london]

They cant possible patriotic.

They arent supporting America.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by dsm
........ In Jordan, for instance, many Iraqis are going home to defend their country against the invaders.




I think some real numbers would be interesting here.. How many people?

Why were they in Jordan in the first place?

Exactly ' where ' is 'home' ( what city )?

How are they getting there?

Is this sort of like U.S. reservists being called up?:rolleyes:

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by iain
The trouble is that you see liberator and they see invader. Who has the most accurate view remains to be seen, but I think it would have been much easier for an invading force to be seen as liberators if it had been done with the support of the UN (even if that meant delaying the invasion until later in the year).

The US is one of the most PR-savvy countries in the world and yet it is losing the PR battle big time. Even in the UK, only half the population support the war; in Spain (another US ally) only 20% do. This is not to say that the war is right or wrong, just that the US has clearly failed so far to get world opinion anywhere near behind it.

Maybe understanding the viewpoint of these Iraqis is the first step to changing it.

I had an opportunity to talk to some ordinary Iraqis who were out shopping. I asked one man if the Iraqi people thought of this as a war of liberation.

He told me, "People in the west need to understand that if even if people here are anti-Saddam, that does not equal pro-American or British." This man was not even a Baath party member, but he said, "I'm an Iraqi, and all I know is my country is being attacked. Why do you expect me to celebrate?"

People here do not see it as a war against the regime, they see it as a war against Iraq.
Rageh Omaar -BBC reporter in Baghdad (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/2908631.stm)

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
They cant possible patriotic.

They arent supporting America.

Real patriots wave flags.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Diogenes



I think some real numbers would be interesting here.. How many people?

Why were they in Jordan in the first place?

Over 5,000 Iraqis return home from Jordan

5,284 Iraqis have crossed border into Iraq since March 16, contradicting Jordan's expectations.

AL KARAMEH, on the Jordan-Iraq border - More than 5,000 Iraqis have crossed from Jordan into Iraq over the last week, a border guard official at al-Karameh said Monday.

Colonel Ahmad al-Hazaymeh, chief of the al-Karameh frontier post, told the official Petra news agency that "5,284 Iraqis have crossed the border into Iraq since March 16."


Middle East Online (http://www.middle-east-online.com/English/?id=4824)

They're refugees who fled Hussein's regime, apparently.

[dsm]

Originally posted by Diogenes

I think some real numbers would be interesting here.. How many people?

Why were they in Jordan in the first place?

Exactly ' where ' is 'home' ( what city )?

How are they getting there?

Is this sort of like U.S. reservists being called up?:rolleyes:


You're being too skeptical. ;)

Actually, the numbers are not important. The interesting statistic is the ratio of those leaving Iraq to those returning to Iraq. From various reports, it seems that the UN relief organizations are not seeing a vast number of refugees in places like Jordan and the news organizations are beginning to ask "why?". Some speculation has been:


They believe US smart weapons will not cause large damage.
The Iran/Iraq war prepared them for life during a war.
There is more patriotic feelings in Iraq than first thought.
Better the tyrant you know than the (potential) tyrant you don't.


Jordan has been considered a friendly border for Iraq (as opposed to Iran or Turkey), so it's the place to most likely see the refugees. The news organizations in Jordan (like NPR) have been interviewing Iraqis who say they are returning to Iraq to defend their country against the invaders. That, however, is more of anecdotal evidence than a scientific poll, but makes one wonder.

[Skeptical Greg]

Maybe they are not leaving because they expect things to get better.. Soon...

[Pyrrho]

I'm sure a lot of them are going back to do some looting.

[max]

Anti-Saddam doesn't equal pro-USA UK:(

[dsm]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Maybe they are not leaving because they expect things to get better.. Soon...

That doesn't make sense. If the US/UN is going to "take care of them" as refugees, then why go back before the war is over? Presumably, they have some amount of documentation to prove who they are and what they own. If you believe it's because they think things are going to get better "soon", then you must believe that they believe the US/UN will make their life better after Saddam is gone. Therefore, they would believe that the US/UN is not going to take (much of) their property away from them and, so, there is no need for them to go back during the war.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by dsm


That doesn't make sense. If the US/UN is going to "take care of them" as refugees, then why go back before the war is over? Presumably, they have some amount of documentation to prove who they are and what they own. If you believe it's because they think things are going to get better "soon", then you must believe that they believe the US/UN will make their life better after Saddam is gone. Therefore, they would believe that the US/UN is not going to take (much of) their property away from them and, so, there is no need for them to go back during the war.

I wasn't refering to the one's who are returning, rather the ones who were not leaving...


Not that the U.S. will 'make' their life better, just that it 'will' be better, with Saddam gone.