The Heroic Women of War

[subgenius]

A U.S. rescue team freed Lynch, 19, on Tuesday from a hospital in Nasiriyah. Her unit, the 507th Maintenance Company, had been ambushed in the Euphrates River city on March 23 after making a wrong turn.
...
Lynch, an aspiring teacher, joined the Army to get an education, her family said. She left a farming community with an unemployment rate of 15 percent, one of the highest in West Virginia.

She also was following in the footsteps of her older brother Gregory, a National Guard member based at Fort Bragg, N.C. Jessica Lynch enlisted through the Army's delayed-entry program before graduating from Wirt County High School in Elizabeth, W.Va.
http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=6&aid=401115027_5302_lead_story

[armageddonman]

And what exactly makes this woman a hero?

[a_unique_person]

Like I said in another thread, the US ends up with a lot of people in it who can't get a job or education and have to join the army. I hope she gets over this alright.

[Iwentsouth]

Originally posted by armageddonman
And what exactly makes this woman a hero?

If you have to ask you would not understand.

A true American hero she is =)

Glad she if safe.

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth


If you have to ask you would not understand.

A true American hero she is =)

Glad she if safe.


Does that mean you don't know yourself? Does serving in the military automatically makes one a hero?

[schplurg]

Like I said in another thread, the US ends up with a lot of people in it who can't get a job or education and have to join the army.
So what? It doesn't say she joined because she couldn't get a job or education. I'm sure a lot of the worlds military are comprised of people who felt that they had no other options (a gun to their heads?). Most people I know who served end up being productive members of our society, even if they weren't so productive before they joined. But whatever... http://www.gameedit.com/mike/moon.gif


The thought of surviving boot camp is enough to keep me from joining (and my age), so I commend her for even getting in. Not to mention that knowing the current state of the world and the U.S. role in it, she probably figured there was a good possibility of seeing action. She's more a hero than I am for that reason alone. Picking on a 19 year old girl...geez...a little cutie too ;)

[Iwentsouth]

Originally posted by armageddonman



Does that mean you don't know yourself? Does serving in the military automatically makes one a hero?

F*ck you! How about that f*cker.

This woman was tortured. she survived. I think she is a hero. It is a f*cking opinion *******.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by schplurg

So what? It doesn't say she joined because she couldn't get a job or education. I'm sure a lot of the worlds military are comprised of people who felt that they had no other options (a gun to their heads?). Most people I know who served end up being productive members of our society, even if they weren't so productive before they joined. But whatever... http://www.gameedit.com/mike/moon.gif




The thought of surviving boot camp is enough to keep me from joining (and my age), so I commend her for even getting in. Not to mention that knowing the current state of the world and the U.S. role in it, she probably figured there was a good possibility of seeing action. She's more a hero than I am for that reason alone. Picking on a 19 year old girl...geez...a little cutie too ;)

In another newspaper, it said she joined because it was hard to get a job. That was implied in the quoted article, but not stated. The morality of it all is open to debate. Either way, tried to make it clear I was not picking on her as an individual.

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth


F*ck you! How about that f*cker.

This woman was tortured. she survived. I think she is a hero. It is a f*cking opinion *******. I note and respect your opinion (if not your language skills).

She is not a hero to me. She has, I presume, shown bravery but I consider a hero (in this sense) someone who chooses to commit a brave action as opposed to someone who has it forced upon them.

[schplurg]

Ok well you have your opinion and I have mine...

And IwentSouth has his/hers (don't wanna assume male and be a sexist heh)

I thought this one could just be a "happy thread" heh ;) But I shouldn't have been surprised...some things just aren't worth "picking on" in my opinion.

Lothian:
I consider a hero (in this sense) someone who chooses to commit a brave action as opposed to someone who has it forced upon them.
Well she chose to join the military, and recently, in a time when 'war' was a great possibility. (bad sentence , I'm tired)

I need sleep...g'nite. I'll be back for more abuse :)

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth


F*ck you! How about that f*cker.

This woman was tortured. she survived. I think she is a hero. It is a f*cking opinion *******.

Im not impressed. Instead of insulting me you should have explained your position in an understandable and polite way. Maybe that will change one day when you come out of puberty.
You've got a long way to go but this board is a good place to start learning.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth

This woman was tortured.


Was she? Neither New York Times, BBC News nor CNN has mentioned anything about that.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Like I said in another thread, the US ends up with a lot of people in it who can't get a job or education and have to join the army. I hope she gets over this alright.


He, he, he :D

That was a very good and accurate observation.

I remember that during the Gulf War, the USA army was offering to the LatinAmerican illegal immigrants to fix their legal status in the USA if they joined the army.

Many of them took the offer. That's why a high percentage of the USA's troops had latinos and black people.

[iain]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth


F*ck you! How about that f*cker.

This woman was tortured. she survived. I think she is a hero. It is a f*cking opinion *******. The sweet sound of intelligent, reasoned debate. How I love it. :D

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

I am surprised at some comments about people that chose to serve in the military.


Sure, they may have joined the military because they could not find a job or an education.

Most of these people that have joined the military lately are not lacking intellectually or skill addled.

The US economy is hurting. Many people have lost jobs. Young people may be just entering the job market to find few options. The cost of post secondary educatiion is out of reach for a lot of people, white, black or hispanic.

There are many factors at the moment which affect recruitment into the forces.

Also I do not understand how not being able to get an education or a civilian job disqualifies a person from being a hero, nor do I understand how just serving in the military automatically makes a person a hero.

Admittedly, there are a lot of things I do not understand.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by Lothian
I note and respect your opinion (if not your language skills).

She is not a hero to me. She has, I presume, shown bravery but I consider a hero (in this sense) someone who chooses to commit a brave action as opposed to someone who has it forced upon them.
We have a volunteer Army.
People who volunteer and go in harm's way to make the world safer are heros.

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by Iwentsouth
Your articulate and obvious command of a variety of words lost me somewhere between here

F*ck you! How about that f*cker.

and here

f*cking opinion *******.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by armageddonman
And what exactly makes this woman a hero?
This was just supposed to be a feel good thread. I was just happy to hear some good news. Can't anyone agree with anything anymore?

Plus I think she's quite the babe. Makes me almost wish I was young enough to join.

[Cleopatra]

Yes!!!! I was very pleased to read this!!!! I am glad they didn't leave her like that! She is only 19

I thought that only Israeli special forces do things like that ;)

She is a hero indeed!!!

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe
I am surprised at some comments about people that chose to serve in the military.


Sure, they may have joined the military because they could not find a job or an education.



you don't find education in the US, you have to buy it. Not everyone, especially from the impoverished rural communities can do that. in her area, there is a 15% unemployment rate. once again, this is not a reflection on her, an unemployment rate that high means it is very difficult to get a job



Most of these people that have joined the military lately are not lacking intellectually or skill addled.



no implication they were. there are also economic reasons for joining the army.



The US economy is hurting. Many people have lost jobs. Young people may be just entering the job market to find few options. The cost of post secondary educatiion is out of reach for a lot of people, white, black or hispanic.

There are many factors at the moment which affect recruitment into the forces.

Also I do not understand how not being able to get an education or a civilian job disqualifies a person from being a hero, nor do I understand how just serving in the military automatically makes a person a hero.

Admittedly, there are a lot of things I do not understand.

I do not see that this would make her a hero. in my book, she is a victim. to now create all this hoopla about her, with apologies to genius, especially since she is photogenic, is exploitation of that suffering she has experienced.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by Leif Roar


Was she? Neither New York Times, BBC News nor CNN has mentioned anything about that.

"Lynch, a 19-year-old Army supply clerk, arrived at a U.S. air base in southwestern Germany on a C-17 transport plane late Wednesday for treatment at a U.S. military medical center. Her condition was not disclosed, but U.S. officials in Kuwait said she was believed to have broken legs, a broken arm and at least one gunshot wound. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=2&cid=514&u=/ap/20030402/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_us_pow


Broken legs? Broken Arm?

[kittynh]

I heard on CNN that she had just signed up for 4 more years. So she was getting something out of it.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by kittynh
I heard on CNN that she had just signed up for 4 more years. So she was getting something out of it.

Right up until the part she got captured.

If she could have paid for an education, or gotten a good job other than in the army, she would have taken those options in preference.

Originally posted by subgenius

This was just supposed to be a feel good thread. I was just happy to hear some good news. Can't anyone agree with anything anymore?

Plus I think she's quite the babe. Makes me almost wish I was young enough to join.


Join !!!!!!!!!

The name of this thread is nice...THE HEROIC WOMEN OF WAR.


But I also saw today on Televisiòn Nacional de Chile (TVN) a lot of heroic womens. All of them are mothers,,,,,,,most of them are die or hurt by the intelligent bombs that some stupids militaries send to them. Those women run with their hurt sons to the nearest hospital.........BUMB.......the hospital fall too. Others went with their sons in a little bus.......some of them recieve the bullets to protect their sons.

P.S: It is not a war...It is an assault.

[shanek]

Just want to say, on the topic of the title of the thread if not the contents, that women have engaged in acts of heroism throughout American history even when there was no recognition involved. Long before women were even allowed in the military, women in the American colonies during the Revolutionary War, and women in the Confederacy during the Civil War, would often dress in their husband's clothes, grab his musket, and go out and fight.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Supercharts





Broken legs? Broken Arm?
yep, she was in a column of trucks that was ambushed, these sort of injuries are common when trucks scatter/crash etc. But torture would make a better book and movie.... Maybe Tom Cruise could play the Idiot that decided to drive a column of rear area maintenance people straight into an Iraqi position.....What a F*ckup.

[armageddonman]

Beeing not a US citizen myself but having spent several years there I couldn't help but notice the US obsession with "heroes".
A cultural trait? Why is it so important for the US to have heroes?

[schplurg]

Maybe because this world needs some heroes these days?

AUP:
If she could have paid for an education, or gotten a good job other than in the army, she would have taken those options in preference.
Oh really? That's funny because I just asked her and she said you're full o' dung! Her bro is in the military as well, maybe they have a little family tradition goin'?

And from CNN, just for the record since we're counting wounds:
Her brother, Greg Lynch, said military officials told the family his sister had "multiple wounds" and that both her legs had been broken as a result of gunshots. Military officials said she was in stable condition.
My little "Wound Chart" says that bullet wounds equal a purple heart.

Dictionary.com:

he·ro
n. pl. he·roes
"A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life."
Let the damn girl be a hero already! Jeeez :)

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend"

[subgenius]

Originally posted by armageddonman
Beeing not a US citizen myself but having spent several years there I couldn't help but notice the US obsession with "heroes".
A cultural trait? Why is it so important for the US to have heroes?
Why the Greek obsession with heroes?

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by schplurg
Maybe because this world needs some heroes these days?



The world or the US? :)

I know it's an emotional thing. Let's leave it that way.

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Supercharts

We have a volunteer Army.
People who volunteer and go in harm's way to make the world safer are heros. I find it very debatable whether the current action is making the world any safer.

However, I accept a lot of people consider everyone out in the Iraq is a hero. The point I was making was that I don’t consider this girl is ANY MORE heroic that anyone else out there just because of her fate.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Lothian
I find it very debatable whether the current action is making the world any safer.

However, I accept a lot of people consider everyone out in the Iraq is a hero. The point I was making was that I don’t consider this girl is ANY MORE heroic that anyone else out there just because of her fate.
So who said she was more heroic than anyone else? Geez.

[subgenius]

But then again....

Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.

Lynch, a 19-year-old supply clerk, continued firing at the Iraqis even after she sustained multiple gunshot wounds and watched several other soldiers in her unit die around her in fighting March 23, one official said. The ambush took place after a 507th convoy, supporting the advancing 3rd Infantry Division, took a wrong turn near the southern city of Nasiriyah.

"She was fighting to the death," the official said. "She did not want to be taken alive."

Lynch was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her position, the official said, noting that initial intelligence reports indicated that she had been stabbed to death. No official gave any indication yesterday, however, that Lynch's wounds had been life-threatening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14879-2003Apr2.html

[armageddonman]

Apart from the "hero"-thing I am of course happy that this girl is alive. But I strongly suspect that she will be used for propaganda (see above metioning of her "fighting to death" etc.). I hope she'll be able to cope with that.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by armageddonman
Apart from the "hero"-thing I am of course happy that this girl is alive. But I strongly suspect that she will be used for propaganda (see above metioning of her "fighting to death" etc.). I hope she'll be able to cope with that.
Hope she makes a million from selling her story....she comes from a typically modest-means family.
Just one of millions of heroes in this country, most just living lives of quiet desperation.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by Supercharts


"Lynch, a 19-year-old Army supply clerk, arrived at a U.S. air base in southwestern Germany on a C-17 transport plane late Wednesday for treatment at a U.S. military medical center. Her condition was not disclosed, but U.S. officials in Kuwait said she was believed to have broken legs, a broken arm and at least one gunshot wound. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=2&cid=514&u=/ap/20030402/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_us_pow


Broken legs? Broken Arm?

That a soldier who's been on the receiving end of an ambush has serious wounds is hardly surprising, and it certainly seems excessive to attribute her wounds to torture without any other evidence.

[susheel]

Hey, How about another heroic woman?

Rachel Corrie.

Grant it to the media though, there is always something more appealing about a pretty face which has been 'wronged'.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by schplurg
Maybe because this world needs some heroes these days?


Oh really? That's funny because I just asked her and she said you're full o' dung! Her bro is in the military as well, maybe they have a little family tradition goin'?



Her father Greg Lynch said he was elated at news the teenager - who joined the forces to put herself through college - had been found alive.



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/03/1048962871922.html

[Lothian]

Originally posted by subgenius

So who said she was more heroic than anyone else? Geez. Geez, I don’t know.

Can I not make my point that I consider her no more heroic than everyone else until someone suggests she is ?

[Lisa]

The kid done good. If I want to consider her a hero or not is no one's business.
For those of you (95% of this board) who've never done a day in uniform for your country, she acted correctly. Look up the Law of Armed Combat. Or perhaps you could have your personal trainer do it for you. Don't care. I say, good going girl, and I hope she took a few out.
As someone who spent 20 years in uniform, and has looked down the wrong end of the barrel (for you 95%, that's the pointy end the bullet come out of), I salute this kid.

[Lisa]

I made a separate post on this, because I didn't want it to interfere with my salute.
As far as women joining the military because they just need a job or education. Wow. Like men don't?
Women join the military because:
1) need a job
2) benefits
3) serve country
And men join because? I'd say the above three cover it pretty well. If you want to compare why men vs women join, you'd better put on your boots. It's gonna get a little slippery around here.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by Lisa

Women join the military because:
1) need a job
2) benefits
3) serve country
And men join because? I'd say the above three cover it pretty well.

That's an oversimplification - in the addition to the three causes above, some men join up because they've overdosed on re-runs of Rambo. :-P

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by The Fool

yep, she was in a column of trucks that was ambushed, these sort of injuries are common when trucks scatter/crash etc. But torture would make a better book and movie.... Maybe Tom Cruise could play the Idiot that decided to drive a column of rear area maintenance people straight into an Iraqi position.....What a F*ckup.

"
The Washington Post reported Thursday that the 19-year-old Army supply clerk shot several Iraqi soldiers during the March 23 ambush that resulted in her capture. She kept firing even after she had several gunshot wounds, finally running out of ammunition, the newspaper said, citing unidentified U.S. officials.
"She was fighting to the death," the Post quoted an official as saying. "She did not want to be taken alive."
Pentagon (news - web sites) officials would not immediately confirm the Post report, but Lynch's mother said she wasn't surprised that her daughter would resist so vigorously.

"She's a fighter. That's exactly what I would expect her to do," Deadra Lynch said on NBC's "The Today Show."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=3&cid=514&u=/ap/20030403/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_us_pow

[whitefork]

West Virginia all the way. Go, Moutaineer....

[DanishDynamite]

Lisa:The kid done good. No one is denying it.
If I want to consider her a hero or not is no one's business.You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone.
For those of you (95% of this board) who've never done a day in uniform for your country, she acted correctly. Look up the Law of Armed Combat. I don't know where you found the "95%" statistic, but in any case no one is saying she did anything wrong.
Or perhaps you could have your personal trainer do it for you. Don't care. Now, see, this is where you start to become disparaging. Are you saying that us civilians (who BTW are footing the bill for the military as well as producing every item of food, clothing, guns, ammunition, etc.) can't appreciate a "hero" when we see one?
I say, good going girl, and I hope she took a few out.As do we all.
As someone who spent 20 years in uniform, and has looked down the wrong end of the barrel (for you 95%, that's the pointy end the bullet come out of), I salute this kid. She did what she was expected to do, and by all accounts she did it well. However, based on the information given so far, she didn't go beyond the call of duty. In my book, a "hero" must at least do something extraordinary.

[kedo1981]

How will this news play in the European press (our friends)

“Evil American Soldier murders heroic Iraqi’s who try to render her aid:
Crazed invader, 19 year old Jessica Lynch, who only joined the military to get a free education, massacred 100 hundred innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them were 9th month pregnant women and crippled children, who only wanted to help her after she was involved in a drug related traffic accident; said Mia al-Sahhaf chairwoman of the Iraq chapter of MAD, she just went crazy, we had to bayonet her to get her to calm down.”


AMERICA! WHERE EVEN THE BABES KICK ASS

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by kedo1981
How will this news play in the European press (our friends)

“Evil American Soldier murders heroic Iraqi’s who try to render her aid:
Crazed invader, 19 year old Jessica Lynch, who only joined the military to get a free education, massacred 100 hundred innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them were 9th month pregnant women and crippled children, who only wanted to help her after she was involved in a drug related traffic accident; said Mia al-Sahhaf chairwoman of the Iraq chapter of MAD, she just went crazy, we had to bayonet her to get her to calm down.”


AMERICA! WHERE EVEN THE BABES KICK ASS I expect it could make page 18 of the worst tabloids.

[c0rbin]

Any chance to spit sour grapes at the US and it is taken.

Some on this forum are pretty sad. Unique takes this as an opportunity to bash the US--what a loser, but pretty typical. DanishDynamite, you said yourself that your country was occupied by Nazis on bicycles.

Pretty weak.

You dogs can argue the meaning of hero all day long, she has more balls than any of you and more balls than I.

[subgenius]

We all agree then: she's got a lot of spunk and we're happier than pigs in slop she got out alive.:)

[kittynh]

People on this forum have implied that women in the military don't pull their own weight. They claim the minute there is a hint of deployment they get preggers....yawn...

Well, she could have said, "Hey, I'm a female I'm not supposed to be in combat, I surrender (white flag goes up)" No, she did what she was trained to do. Think how many 19 year olds you know who would have handled this situation by just giving up. She's just a kid, but she defended not only herself, but her mates. I don't want to hear about no women in combat - combat comes to them! A lot of people have traditionally joined the military to get an education. We shouldn't deny that right to women. In fact many of our best in the military joined for the education, and found a home. Admiral Rickover is my prime example.

[FFed]

I am glad she was rescued but this whole media blitz on the story is getting out of hand. I am beginning to wonder if the story was exaggerated for the media and military propaganda.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Any chance to spit sour grapes at the US and it is taken.

Some on this forum are pretty sad. Unique takes this as an opportunity to bash the US--what a loser, but pretty typical. DanishDynamite, you said yourself that your country was occupied by Nazis on bicycles.

Pretty weak.

You dogs can argue the meaning of hero all day long, she has more balls than any of you and more balls than I.

I haven't seen anyone say anything disparaging about her as a person.

All I am doing is questioning teenagers having to join the military to get an education.

I can imagine why she fought to the end, being a woman.

I haven't seen anyone question that as a woman she was any sort of a liabitlity, or not entitled to be in the army, or that she had any different reasons for joining than a man. Many men, and as one poster has pointed out, many more blacks, join the armed forces, for economic reasons. They then have to put up with the prospect of fighting in a war that may be the result of a decision made by an elite clique that they have no say in and has nothing to do with the defense of their country.

As for the hoopla, grandstanding and propaganda....



PoW had no gunshot, knife wounds: father
April 4 2003


The father of rescued prisoner of war Jessica Lynch today said she suffered no gunshot or knife wounds at the hands of her Iraqi assailants, contrary to reports quoting a US official.

In a televised press conference from his home in Palestine, West Virginia, Gregory Lynch said he and his wife had spoken to her after she underwent surgery at a US military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany.

An examination revealed the 19-year-old private had "no multiple gunshot wounds or knife stabs" Lynch said, adding that there had been "no entry whatsoever".



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/04/1048962910004.html



Britain's Sky Television quoted an Iraqi pharmacist who worked at Saddam Hospital as saying he treated Private Lynch for leg injuries, that she wondered if the American army that she knew was nearby would save her, and that she cried a lot.

"Every day I saw her crying about wanting to go home," he told the network. Yesterday she was flown to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, where she was reported to be in stable condition.



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/03/1048962876713.html

[Supercharts]

Take a drink.
Get the saliva working.
Spit.
Asshol*

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Supercharts is on my ignore list. I have seen no evidence that Supercharts is capable of little more than cursing people out.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Supercharts
Take a drink.
Get the saliva working.
Spit.
Asshol*

What's the problem. Do you want your heroes to be super-heroes?

Sounds to me like a teenage girl who has suffered massive emotional and physical injuries. She will probably be suffering the after effects for the rest of her life.

Originally posted by armageddonman
Beeing not a US citizen myself but having spent several years there I couldn't help but notice the US obsession with "heroes".
A cultural trait? Why is it so important for the US to have heroes?

We are running out of heroes. Our sports figures are all drug-crazed, murdering thieves now. :D

I have this crazy idea that the young lady who is the subject of this topic will be appearing on at least one late night talk show. Jay Leno maybe. And since she is from a small town, they might even have the whole town come on down and sit in the audience.

She is certainly going to get a lot of attention. And a lot of debate is going to rage over women in combat again.

All that stress may make her crack sooner than her injuries.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


What's the problem. Do you want your heroes to be super-heroes?

Sounds to me like a teenage girl who has suffered massive emotional and physical injuries. She will probably be suffering the after effects for the rest of her life.
Or she could decide to put it behind her and get on with her life.
Does that upset you?

[DrBenway]

I'm glad this kid was rescued. It doesn't bother me to call her a "hero," even if that might be over-generous by some technical definition of the word. It's enough, for me, that she faced horrible circumstances, behaved respectably, and survived to say something about her experiences.

Motor vehicle accidents often cause fractures of the knees, broken ribs, and head injuries. A person with broken legs and an arm, makes me think of someone who might have been thrown by a bomb blast. Or maybe someone thrown from a moving vehicle.

Do Americans need heros more than others? I'm not sure. I think everyone develops an "ego-ideal," an image of self that expresses the most desired qualities. Hopefully, this ideal is a little bit of a reach beyond the person one is presently, but not an unrealistic reach.

I've noticed that boys who grow up without fathers often develop over-idealized, over-masculine notions of what a man ought to be. I think it helps to have people to look up to who are also real folks with ordinary human weaknesses.

So, having "heroes," like this 19 year-old who did her duty in a combat zone, but who also cried for home when wounded in a foreign hospital, isn't a bad thing.

[schplurg]

Nice post DrBenway :) I think the late "Mister Rogers" is a hero too (from the kids TV show) for his lifelong dedication to kids. That's a different definition of the term 'hero' I suppose. Anyways...

I chose some comments from this thread and pasted them below. I didn't include names because they aren't valid to my following point, and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of them.


I can imagine why she fought to the end, being a woman.

AMERICA! WHERE EVEN THE BABES KICK ASS

...she has more balls than any of you and more balls than I.

A lot of people have traditionally joined the military to get an education. We shouldn't deny that right to women.

If you want to compare why men vs women join, you'd better put on your boots.

...especially since she is photogenic, is exploitation of that suffering she has experienced.

...there is always something more appealing about a pretty face which has been 'wronged'.

...women in the American colonies during the Revolutionary War, and women in the Confederacy during the Civil War, would often dress in their husband's clothes, grab his musket, and go out and fight.

These various comments, and others like them, make me wonder if some people (not on this board necessarily but everywhere) are threatened in some way because she's a woman. Maybe not, just something that dawned on me after downing a few pints.

BTW I'm not accusing any of those who made these comments of sexism, I just scanned the thread looking for comments pertaining specifically to 'women'. Something like that...in fact in one post I said, "She's a cutie too".

[subgenius]

Mr. Roger's was a hero too. Many are. Most are just living lives of quiet desperation.
Anyone who tries is a hero to me.

[subgenius]

"In Palestine, W.Va., the parents of Pfc. Jessica Lynch, the rescued prisoner...."
Kind of ironic isn't it?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by subgenius
But then again....

Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.

[/url]
Us officials are now backing away from this. Reports of gunshot wounds are also now back in the "maybe" bucket.......

48 hour rule should be the 48 day rule methinks.......

I am starting to suspect that journalists are using out of work hollywood scriptwriters as sources.....

[susheel]

schplurg, since you used a quote of mine in your post to conclude that I may have something against women achievers, I would suggest you go back to my post and look up the name of another hero...and guess what, it's a woman.

My post was a reaction to the bombardment of news on this young lady by media groups intent on using her as a kind of banner in support of the war. I am sorry if that didn't come through.

[DrBenway]

Oh boy, there's a Hollywood script in this story fer sure:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5552797.htmv

It's a great story. Hope it isn't all bs.

[schplurg]

Susheel:
schplurg, since you used a quote of mine in your post to conclude that I may have something against women achievers, I would suggest you go back to my post and look up the name of another hero...and guess what, it's a woman.
I never said that, which is why I added my disclaimer:

schplurg:
I didn't include names because they aren't valid to my following point, and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of them....

BTW I'm not accusing any of those who made these comments of sexism, I just scanned the thread looking for comments pertaining specifically to 'women'. Something like that...in fact in one post I said, "She's a cutie too".
That's why I didn't include any names. Just pointing out the fact that since comments were made about her being a woman that this may be a factor in some peoples opinions, both for and against her being a hero.

I apologize if it seems I was accusing anyone and I realize these were taken out of context. In fact even when taken out of context, these comments all appear to be valid. I don't even know who made which comments, and I didn't look when I pulled them. Sorry if this is bad form.


edited for spelling

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by The Fool

I am starting to suspect that journalists are using out of work hollywood scriptwriters as sources.....


What did you expect? This war desperately needs some feel-good stories. It doesn't surprise me that this girl is beeing used for propaganda.

Edit: it also doesn't surprise me that many people bought into this story that fast. :)

[iMoc]

Look, the bitch got into a bit of action, which we all know she would have rather avoided, and was good looking enough and posesssed the right skin color to warrant a rescue. The rescue was for propaganda use and is being worked for every sickening drop.

Can we really believe that while she bore various bullet wounds, she still managed to take out a few dirty A-rabs. The whole thing is so preposterous, and yet we are all sappy enough to call her a HERO. Can it get any more HOLLWOOD. Can it have any more subliminal racism, "Half dead American amazonian warrior takes out enemy squad with last round". Give me a f***ing break. She was an armed non-combatant. She was part of a maintainance crew. She wasn't out there looking for a fight. She was no Rambette.

I'm not saying she didn't do herself proud, and her family and her comrades should be proud and happy for her. She deserves a medal. But that's it. She was GETTING PAID. Thats where the hero element gets disqualified.javascript:smilie(':)')

Here in the USA we are desensitized to the word hero. My mailman is a hero, all firemen are hero's even if they never even rescued a cat from a tree, we don't realize what hero's are. Highly paid sportsmen are hero's. How can any of us here in the US say we are short of hero's. Everyone's a f***ing hero over here. We say "hero" when people suffer the lamest inconveniences, because here in the US we are basically a big bunch of wimps. We pretend to be so macho and tough, but if our eggs aren't cooked right, or someone left a drop of sweat on the treadmill we cry like babies (in a macho way, of course). Go abroad, we americans are the biggest bitchers and moaners, it's embarrassing. But hell, all we have to do is watch some NFL and drink a six pack of Bud to feel like we are the most kick ass mo fo's that ever lived.

According to KCAL news here in bad ass Culver City, Los Angeles (we'd kick Beiruts' ass anyday)
"America is about to declare Jessica a national hero". This make me wanna throw up. As my wise neighbor commented," I imagine that many thousands of real war hero's, rotting in cemeteries around this nation and abroad, are turning in their graves right now". QED.

[Troll]

Originally posted by subgenius

This was just supposed to be a feel good thread. I was just happy to hear some good news. Can't anyone agree with anything anymore?

Plus I think she's quite the babe. Makes me almost wish I was young enough to join.

yeah, she is quite the hottie.

Was listening to talk radio with Neil Boortz (sp?) on the way home like 10 minutes ago and from all accounts of press releases that he mentioned, she fought until she ran our of ammo and was overran and stabbed. She did this while her comrades in arms died around her.

If this turns out to be true, and a 19 year old woman did indeed see her freinds dying and yet kept her head and kept fighting the enemy and only got taken prisoner because she ran out of ammo, then yeah, she's got the stuff that makes people get called a hero/heroine as far as I'm concerned

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by iMoc
Look, the bitch got into a bit of action, which we all know she would have rather avoided, and was good looking enough and posesssed the right skin color to warrant a rescue. The rescue was for propaganda use and is being worked for every sickening drop.

Can we really believe that while she bore various bullet wounds, she still managed to take out a few dirty A-rabs. The whole thing is so preposterous, and yet we are all sappy enough to call her a HERO. Can it get any more HOLLWOOD. Can it have any more subliminal racism, "Half dead American amazonian warrior takes out enemy squad with last round". Give me a f***ing break. She was an armed non-combatant. She was part of a maintainance crew. She wasn't out there looking for a fight. She was no Rambette.

I'm not saying she didn't do herself proud, and her family and her comrades should be proud and happy for her. She deserves a medal. But that's it. She was GETTING PAID. Thats where the hero element gets disqualified.javascript:smilie(':)')

Here in the USA we are desensitized to the word hero. My mailman is a hero, all firemen are hero's even if they never even rescued a cat from a tree, we don't realize what hero's are. Highly paid sportsmen are hero's. How can any of us here in the US say we are short of hero's. Everyone's a f***ing hero over here. We say "hero" when people suffer the lamest inconveniences, because here in the US we are basically a big bunch of wimps. We pretend to be so macho and tough, but if our eggs aren't cooked right, or someone left a drop of sweat on the treadmill we cry like babies (in a macho way, of course). Go abroad, we americans are the biggest bitchers and moaners, it's embarrassing. But hell, all we have to do is watch some NFL and drink a six pack of Bud to feel like we are the most kick ass mo fo's that ever lived.

According to KCAL news here in bad ass Culver City, Los Angeles (we'd kick Beiruts' ass anyday)
"America is about to declare Jessica a national hero". This make me wanna throw up. As my wise neighbor commented," I imagine that many thousands of real war hero's, rotting in cemeteries around this nation and abroad, are turning in their graves right now". QED.

Great post.

Welcome to the forum iMoc ! :)

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Troll


yeah, she is quite the hottie.

Was listening to talk radio with Neil Boortz (sp?) on the way home like 10 minutes ago and from all accounts of press releases that he mentioned, she fought until she ran our of ammo and was overran and stabbed. She did this while her comrades in arms died around her.

If this turns out to be true, and a 19 year old woman did indeed see her freinds dying and yet kept her head and kept fighting the enemy and only got taken prisoner because she ran out of ammo, then yeah, she's got the stuff that makes people get called a hero/heroine as far as I'm concerned

J**S C**T, didn't you read my link. No bullet wounds, at all, according to her father. No stab wounds.

Given this, she may have just prayed and sprayed till the magazine was empty, if at all. According to the medical reports, she had no feeling in her legs, spinal damage, two broken legs and a broken arm. Sounds to me like more b**s.

[susheel]

Originally posted by Troll


yeah, she is quite the hottie.

Was listening to talk radio with Neil Boortz (sp?) on the way home like 10 minutes ago and from all accounts of press releases that he mentioned, she fought until she ran our of ammo and was overran and stabbed. She did this while her comrades in arms died around her.

If this turns out to be true, and a 19 year old woman did indeed see her freinds dying and yet kept her head and kept fighting the enemy and only got taken prisoner because she ran out of ammo, then yeah, she's got the stuff that makes people get called a hero/heroine as far as I'm concerned

Oh please....this is a script for a Rambo movie. Let's be realistic and wait for the real story. Right now it's all hype official and unofficial, but hype none the less.

Granted the girl deserves a medal, but don't paint her out to be a larger than life mascot for a war with rather dubious motives. She is being used to garner sympathy, not for the American soldiers, but for Bush and his cause.

[Drooper]

Well, one thing is for sure. This girl is now now made - books, television, movies. Good luck to her I say. I just hope she gets some decent advice and doesn't get ripped off.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Drooper
Well, one thing is for sure. This girl is now now made - books, television, movies. Good luck to her I say. I just hope she gets some decent advice and doesn't get ripped off.

As I have always said it, the USA need to brainwash its population with this kind of Hollywood trash stories... :D :rolleyes:

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Q-Source


As I have always said it, the USA need to brainwash its population with this kind of Hollywood trash stories... :D :rolleyes:

That was funny. :rolleyes:

What's your problem? Did the Border Patrol catch you trying to wetback in again?

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by hammegk

What's your problem? Did the Border Patrol catch you trying to wetback in again?

What on Earh makes you think that I would risk my precious life to get illegally into an Imperialist **** country?

Don't shatter yourself, hammegk.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Q-Source


What on Earh makes you think that I would risk my precious life to get illegally into an Imperialist **** country?

Don't shatter yourself, hammegk.

Oh, maybe because you'd like to be in a country that had an economy other than drug running, and a President with sufficient balls to back up his stature?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by hammegk


Oh, maybe because you'd like to be in a country that had an economy other than drug running, and a President with sufficient balls to back up his stature?

He has big balls? How about the rumour that Clinton's is bigger than Dubyas?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by hammegk


That was funny. :rolleyes:

What's your problem? Did the Border Patrol catch you trying to wetback in again?

Lol..... Congratulations Q-Source you have flushed out our resident piece of Racist human garbage... You never miss a chance do you Massa Hammy? While you are here maybe you could tell us all again how slavery was good for black Americans?
Gotta go now...have to disinfect my PC.

[DrBenway]

Nobody's commenting on the brave Iraqi lawyer, who risked his life walking six miles one way through a combat zone (twice), to tell the marines about this kid?

He's a pretty awesome hero in my book. He's the one that will get the Hollywood contract.

Here's the link again: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5552797.htmv

[Drooper]

Originally posted by DrBenway
Nobody's commenting on the brave Iraqi lawyer, who risked his life walking six miles one way through a combat zone (twice), to tell the marines about this kid?

He's a pretty awesome hero in my book. He's the one that will get the Hollywood contract.

Here's the link again: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5552797.htmv

What EVERYBODY is missing so far is:

who is the love interest???? Donald Rumsfeld??

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by hammegk


Oh, maybe because you'd like to be in a country that had an economy other than drug running, and a President with sufficient balls to back up his stature?

I'd like to live in a country with an economy based on their own human and natural resources. I would like to live in a country where the President respects the environment, the political and religious diversity and other people's choices to have the government they want to have.

Does the USA offer any of that? No, I don't think so.

BTW, have you seen Bush's balls, Hammy? :cool:

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Lisa
The kid done good. If I want to consider her a hero or not is no one's business.
For those of you (95% of this board) who've never done a day in uniform for your country, she acted correctly. Look up the Law of Armed Combat. Or perhaps you could have your personal trainer do it for you. Don't care. I say, good going girl, and I hope she took a few out.
As someone who spent 20 years in uniform, and has looked down the wrong end of the barrel (for you 95%, that's the pointy end the bullet come out of), I salute this kid.

Damn straight Lisa! :D

Heroism is a very subjective concept. But that doesn't mean heroism is not real. The girl's a hero...she's coming home to a hero's welcome. She's gonna get a big advance from Hollywood for telling a hero's story. I'm so very glad she survived...she's a lucky kid. Soon she's going to be a rich kid....good for her! :D

-z

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

All I am doing is questioning teenagers having to join the military to get an education.

(snip)
As for the hoopla, grandstanding and propaganda....



No...what you are doing is casting aspertions upon the United States...as you have habit of doing because of your irrational hatred of America.

I myself joined the Army for an education, as well as to serve my country. What the United States got out of my service was far less than what they have given me in return. In short, it was a good deal AUP. I have veterans benefits...purchased two homes with no money down....have had college courses paid for....and learned my trade in communications in the Army. All I had to do was wear my country's uniform for 4 years. Luckily for me it was in peace time....but had we gone to war it would have been no different for me. I would have done my duty regardless, as all of my fellow troops would.

My time in the Army has been a source of pride in accomplishment and service that I have been able to look back on for the last 21 years. They were good years. As with anything, you get out of it what you put in. Your attempts to demonize the service as an entity which holds out the prize of an education, as it leads the young to war is unmitigated BS.

But then we all know you here....for you it's par.

-z

PS: As for grandstanding and hoopla...yeah...so what. We Americans make a big deal out of the Superbowl too....but propaganda?? You want that why don't you tune in the Iraqi "information" minister who thinks reports of Americans at the gates of Baghdad are "silly"? Go ask Peter Arnett what propaganda is... :mad:

[shanek]

Originally posted by schplurg
Originally posted by me
...women in the American colonies during the Revolutionary War, and women in the Confederacy during the Civil War, would often dress in their husband's clothes, grab his musket, and go out and fight.

These various comments, and others like them, make me wonder if some people (not on this board necessarily but everywhere) are threatened in some way because she's a woman. Maybe not, just something that dawned on me after downing a few pints.

How did you get that from my post? That was just a statement of what actually happened in history! It's not my fault women had to dress up as men because women weren't allowed to fight; I was pointing out how there were many women of courage in history even if history didn't give them the recognition they deserve. How is that an indication that I am in any way "threatened" by women?

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by Drooper
What EVERYBODY is missing so far is:

who is the love interest???? Donald Rumsfeld??
Now that's just creepy.

[GreyWanderer]

I just looked up the story in a Norwegian newspaper: "Iraqi saves Jessica" is the headline. And right below it says that a 32 year old Iraqi discovered her in the hospital and reported it to the Americans who rescued her.

Not too biased I think. I would also highlight the fact that she was rescued because of an Iraqi.

I'm not sure about the definiton of hero. But I've always imagined that you'll have to save someone else, or do something for others do be considered a hero. I don't think she should be called a hero just for surviving, just like I don't think a child should be called a hero for surviving a disease.

You could of course call her a hero for joining the military and fighting for her country, but I don't think you should call her more of a hero than everyone else who joins the army.

Also, I don't care about anyone's motivation for joining the army, as long as they are doing what's required of them.

[Barkhorn1x]

...now to catch up.

IMO she is a hero if reports of her gun battle are true, if not then she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - and then she got lucky. The Iraqi lawyer - he is a hero. Let's hope we appoint him mayor of Bagdad - he could do some good.

I remember the F-16 pilot downed over Bosnia (or around there anyway) some years back was called a hero. Never understood that.

U_A_P = your transparency comes through loud and clear once again - we know your message is that these young people are FORCED into the military due to a lack of opportunities in the private sector. Did it ever occur to your Chomskyfied brain that for some people the military is an honored profession and for some families in the US a tradition?

Of course not - as you cannot fathom why anyone could support such an atavistic institution like the military.

Q-source = your hatred for the US comes through loud and clear. But you are also obsessed w/ the US. I kind of feel sorry for you - as you can't help thinking about the thing you hate. You must be in a near constant state of mental anguish. :eek:

Oh well the wheels are now very clearly coming off of SH's wagon.

Happy Friday everyone,
Barkhorn.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x

Q-source = your hatred for the US comes through loud and clear. But you are also obsessed w/ the US. I kind of feel sorry for you - as you can't help thinking about the thing you hate. You must be in a near constant state of mental anguish.



Let your psychological gargabe to analyse yourself...

Why don't you go back to my post and rebut my points? Did I say something that removed your dead-brain?

[subgenius]

Originally posted by DrBenway
Nobody's commenting on the brave Iraqi lawyer, who risked his life walking six miles one way through a combat zone (twice), to tell the marines about this kid?

He's a pretty awesome hero in my book. He's the one that will get the Hollywood contract.

Here's the link again: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5552797.htmv
Thank you for that. The man is a hero as well and extremely brave.
Many, many Iraqis have been extremely brave in this ordeal. Its impossible to imagine the courage it takes to get through this ordeal.
To rise up, to resist, especially when we let them down so badly the last time.

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Any chance to spit sour grapes at the US and it is taken.

Some on this forum are pretty sad. Unique takes this as an opportunity to bash the US--what a loser, but pretty typical. DanishDynamite, you said yourself that your country was occupied by Nazis on bicycles.

Pretty weak.

You dogs can argue the meaning of hero all day long, she has more balls than any of you and more balls than I. "You dogs"? Please read what I actually said. Why is she a hero just because she fired at enemy soldiers? Isn't that what soldiers are supposed to do?

[DanishDynamite]

iMOC:Look, the bitch got into a bit of action,... :rolleyes:

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by DrBenway
Nobody's commenting on the brave Iraqi lawyer, who risked his life walking six miles one way through a combat zone (twice), to tell the marines about this kid?

He's a pretty awesome hero in my book. He's the one that will get the Hollywood contract.

Here's the link again: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/5552797.htmv I agree entirely. Assuming the story is true, this guy is a hero, in my book. He performed an act which was selfless, brave and completely unrequired of him. He could have gone about his business, but took an unnecessary risk (to him and his family) in orer to save the life of an "enemy" soldier.

[Troll]

Originally posted by susheel


Oh please....this is a script for a Rambo movie. Let's be realistic and wait for the real story. Right now it's all hype official and unofficial, but hype none the less.

Granted the girl deserves a medal, but don't paint her out to be a larger than life mascot for a war with rather dubious motives. She is being used to garner sympathy, not for the American soldiers, but for Bush and his cause.

I am being realistic and waiting for the real story. That is why, if you paid attention to my initial post, you would have seen the words I used were, "If this turns out to be true". I'm as free as anyone to comment on the news as it's reported, but I follow the 48 hour rule and wait to see how true it is before I accept it and stop using phrases like "if it turns out to be true"

However I don't see how her rescue could be used to garner sympathy for anyone let alone Bush who basically sent her there to begin with. If anything it serves to motivate the troops

[Troll]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
I agree entirely. Assuming the story is true, this guy is a hero, in my book. He performed an act which was selfless, brave and completely unrequired of him. He could have gone about his business, but took an unnecessary risk (to him and his family) in orer to save the life of an "enemy" soldier.

Dang. In agreement yet again. The things that wars can make people do, huh. :D

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
He performed an act which was selfless, brave and completely unrequired of him.
I love these hero stories. They give me faith that human nature can sometimes be a pretty cool thing.

Not a hero story, but nice anyway: A week or so ago, my husband lost his wedding ring at a job site. He left his phone number with people living near by. A few days later, someone found the ring and called him. They could have kept the ring or pawned it and no one would have been the wiser. But instead, they did something nice for a stranger.

Maybe we human beings won't blow ourselves to smithereens after all.:)

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by Troll


Dang. In agreement yet again. The things that wars can make people do, huh. :D It's terrible, I tell you, just terrible. :)

Anyway, don't let it get you down. We still disagree on a lot of other points. (Which, of course, makes for interesting debates, which is why I come to this forum.)

[DanishDynamite]

DrBenway:I love these hero stories. They give me faith that human nature can sometimes be a pretty cool thing. I agree. Which is why I feel that to attain "hero" status, one must do something which is unusualo enough to engender hope in "human nature".
Not a hero story, but nice anyway: A week or so ago, my husband lost his wedding ring at a job site. He left his phone number with people living near by. A few days later, someone found the ring and called him. They could have kept the ring or pawned it and no one would have been the wiser. But instead, they did something nice for a stranger. Which is part of my definition of "hero".
Maybe we human beings won't blow ourselves to smithereens after all.:) Maybe. Personally, I see this as one of the greatest risks to the survival of our species. There are others, such as AIDS, SARS, meteorites, etc. Which is why I support the translocation of humans to other non-terrestial places. Having all your eggs in one basket is not a good idea (if you can avoid it). But that is, of course, another thread.

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
I feel that to attain "hero" status, one must do something which is unusual enough to engender hope in "human nature".
A strangely ironic idea, n'est pas?

[c0rbin]

As I have always said it, the USA need to brainwash its population with this kind of Hollywood trash stories...

Living in Houston I see the crap that comes out of Univision and other hispanic (spanish-speaking) TV. I have also seen the Desperado movies, Amores Perros and other Mexican films that glorify guns and violence and machismo.

Please. Why hate America while risking life and limb to get here?

[kittynh]

well, we all know American companies move to MExico because of their higher environmental standards. As for using their human resourses, well yeah they use their citizens. My roommate did humanitarian work with some of the Native groups in Mexico - used is a really good word. No country is perfect, and no country is uniformly "fair" throughout the country.

[schplurg]

Shanek and everyone else whos comments I used:
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I'll try to explain again:

From Shanek:

Originally posted by schplurg

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by me
...women in the American colonies during the Revolutionary War, and women in the Confederacy during the Civil War, would often dress in their husband's clothes, grab his musket, and go out and fight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



These various comments, and others like them, make me wonder if some people (not on this board necessarily but everywhere) are threatened in some way because she's a woman. Maybe not, just something that dawned on me after downing a few pints.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shanek:

How did you get that from my post? That was just a statement of what actually happened in history! It's not my fault women had to dress up as men because women weren't allowed to fight; I was pointing out how there were many women of courage in history even if history didn't give them the recognition they deserve. How is that an indication that I am in any way "threatened" by women?


Shanek:
I think it's GREAT that women did that! Your comment was obviously "positive" towards women and I think it's awesome! Please read again carefully:

schplurg:
I didn't include names because they aren't valid to my following point, and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of them....

BTW I'm not accusing any of those who made these comments of sexism, I just scanned the thread looking for comments pertaining specifically to 'women'. Something like that...in fact in one post I said, "She's a cutie too".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a few posts later to answer Susheel:

That's why I didn't include any names. Just pointing out the fact that since comments were made about her being a woman that this may be a factor in some peoples opinions, both for and against her being a hero.

I apologize if it seems I was accusing anyone and I realize these were taken out of context. In fact even when taken out of context, these comments all appear to be valid. I don't even know who made which comments, and I didn't look when I pulled them. Sorry if this is bad form.

I'm not accusing anyone here of sexism. I was merely asking if the fact that she's a woman has anything to do with positive OR negative bias in this issue. Am I more willing to consider her a hero because she's a woman? I don't know...maybe. That's my point.

Again I'm sorry if I didn't present my post in the best way, or if it wasn't clear. Your post obviously was not a sexist statement. Should I go back and make it more clear? I just don't believe in altering my posts...I'd rather clear up any misunderstandings after the fact.

Once more, I apologize for not being clear enough in my post. I will be more careful in the future.

****
Edited for spelling

[shanek]

Originally posted by schplurg
Again I'm sorry if I didn't present my post in the best way, or if it wasn't clear. Your post obviously was not a sexist statement. Should I go back and make it more clear? I just don't believe in altering my posts...I'd rather clear up any misunderstandings after the fact.

That's fine; I'm just curious as to how it could be sexist to post about women in the military in a thread entitled "The Heroic Women of War."

[kittynh]

You quoted me and I think I got the point. It's cool.
women in the military need "hero's" The men have tons. Molly Pitcher, and not many more. So, it's nice for the young women serving have someone they can point to and think, hey, this is serious and we can do it!

[schplurg]

Shanek:
Hehe! Good point...this whole thread is sexist!!! ;) :D

Just kidding.

But seriously, I think the people who say the media are capitalizing on this incident because she's a female may have a point, at least to some degree. There will be a lot of people returning from battle with some pretty nasty stories to tell. I even question my own feelings on it...would I think this person was such a hero if it was a man? Not sure.

I call her a hero, and I respect her as I do anyone who has served my country...more so because she saw action and was apparently wounded. When I think that there are 19 year old girls/women and boys/men shooting and dying for their country, for ANY country...I dunno...it's very sobering. I am grateful that people are willing to do this, no matter what brought them to join the military initially.

Added note...NOT a hero:
A man who is from my area went AWOL recently and refused to fight, suddenly claiming "conscientious objector" status. I think AUP may be right in this particular instance, in that this dude joined the military for his own interests, then turned tail when actually asked to fight and do his job. This guy should be put in the brig until this conflict is over, pay back all the money the government has spent on his ass during his entire service, then be discharged...dishonorably. He's a disgrace. Thankfully this is a rare occurrence, although it may not be so rare in the future if too much leniency is shown.


Thanks Kittynh...however, I will think twice next time I consider using quotes in this manner. I liked the one quote "In America, even the girls kick ass!!!" or something to that effect. :) :)

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Q-Source


BTW, have you seen Bush's balls, Hammy? :cool:

No. Why do you ask? Never seen a man, maybe?

Qsauce, AUP & da'Fool. Thinking of your threesome makes me wonder if you will ever let either of them try to be the "man".

[Agammamon]

Grueling ordeal that she suffered aside, the one who should be getting the praise is Mohammad.

Eucom.Mil (http://www.eucom.mil/Defender/Defender.htm)

[subgenius]

There ain't just one should be getting praise.
Appreciation and respect are two things we don't spread around enough.

[Philip]

An update:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/02/iraq/main547294.shtml

There's more conflicting information, now it's reported that doctors in Germany are saying she was shot.

After numerous conflicting reports, doctors in Germany are now saying that Lynch did indeed suffer from gunshot wounds. She has a bullet entry and exit wound in her left leg and a bullet entry and exit wound in her right arm. The wounds are consistent with low velocity gun wounds, doctors say.

I won't quibble about the definition of hero.

I think it's great that she was rescued, but I guess her rescue shouldn't have been reported since some people consider the news of it to be propaganda. :rolleyes:

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Philip
An update:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/02/iraq/main547294.shtml

There's more conflicting information, now it's reported that doctors in Germany are saying she was shot.



I won't quibble about the definition of hero.

I think it's great that she was rescued, but I guess her rescue shouldn't have been reported since some people consider the news of it to be propaganda. :rolleyes:

Not the reporting of it, just the way it is used. It reminds me of those saying that god was looking after me because everyone else in the car crash died. It would have been much better for her if she could have afforded university and never had to go to war and been ambushed and suffered horrific injuries. One broken leg is bad enough, two broken legs, one broken arm and spinal damage is a pretty high price to pay.

[subgenius]

Doin the best you can with what ya got.---hero

[Troll]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Not the reporting of it, just the way it is used. It reminds me of those saying that god was looking after me because everyone else in the car crash died. It would have been much better for her if she could have afforded university and never had to go to war and been ambushed and suffered horrific injuries. One broken leg is bad enough, two broken legs, one broken arm and spinal damage is a pretty high price to pay.

You seem to be in denial of the actual gunshot wounds you claimed didn't occur because your link didn't say they did. Told ya about that 48 hour rule:p

[The Fool]

Originally posted by hammegk


No. Why do you ask? Never seen a man, maybe?

Qsauce, AUP & da'Fool. Thinking of your threesome makes me wonder if you will ever let either of them try to be the "man".
Its sad hammy, Now that Franko has left you are reduced to racist/sexist one liners. I guess it's not easy without franko to PM you your next opinion.

But still, you are the cheapest entertainment on the web....I shouldn't complain. Maybe you could get a coin slot fitted? You could charge a $1 coin for 5 minutes of stupidity. It could be a significant income as you have a limitless supply.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Troll


You seem to be in denial of the actual gunshot wounds you claimed didn't occur because your link didn't say they did. Told ya about that 48 hour rule:p

you would have thought her father would have known.

I still think that she would be better off not being rescued.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by rikzilla


Damn straight Lisa! :D

Heroism is a very subjective concept. But that doesn't mean heroism is not real. The girl's a hero...she's coming home to a hero's welcome. She's gonna get a big advance from Hollywood for telling a hero's story. I'm so very glad she survived...she's a lucky kid. Soon she's going to be a rich kid....good for her! :D

-z

you call multiple fractures lucky? but that's ok, because hollywood can make everything all right.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

I still think that she would be better off not being rescued.
Words fail me in describing your callousness, stupidity, bitterness and indifference.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Supercharts

Words fail me in describing your callousness, stupidity, bitterness and indifference.

words fail me in your inability to understand a point. When I typed the sentence in I thought, would someone misinterpret it, or would they understand it in context of the rest of the post.

I still think she would be better of not having to be rescued. Now, do you understand.

[Supercharts]

Please take an ESL course. :D

[shanek]

Originally posted by Q-Source
Does the USA offer any of that? No, I don't think so.

It did once...Unfortunately the Democrats and Republicans have worked to subdue it over most of the 20th cerntury.

Originally posted by Q-Source



He, he, he :D

That was a very good and accurate observation.

I remember that during the Gulf War, the USA army was offering to the LatinAmerican illegal immigrants to fix their legal status in the USA if they joined the army.

Many of them took the offer. That's why a high percentage of the USA's troops had latinos and black people.

In this "liberation" WAR also.

Almost 25 % of the death soldiers are latinos. Of course, they were in the front of the battle.

Thanks,
S&S

P.S.
Have you heard or read about the "heroic" women from the "enemies"?
Or they are just stupid?

Originally posted by rikzilla




I myself joined the Army for an education, as well as to serve my country.


Maybe I am wrong.

My thoughts are : Armies of ALL the world prepare (as main principle to educate ) humans to KILL another humans.

The "otside benefits" for joining the "army" are just another business.

KILL and obey the "no matter what reason". First rule that is in their brainwashed mines.

Thanks,
S&S

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by S&S
Almost 25 % of the death soldiers are latinos. Of course, they were in the front of the battle.

Where do you have this number from? I find it somewhat incredulous that anyone has detailed statistics about the ethnic make-up of the casualties at this point in time.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Leif Roar


Where do you have this number from? I find it somewhat incredulous that anyone has detailed statistics about the ethnic make-up of the casualties at this point in time.

Let me guess. Someone's econometric model, perhaps? :D

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by S&S


In this "liberation" WAR also.

Almost 25 % of the death soldiers are latinos. Of course, they were in the front of the battle.



Count the surnames of the Latinos, Irish, German, French, Scandinavian, Italian, Polish and all other flavors of Americans.
Put it into MS Excel and do a graph.
You could even break it out by male/female.
Here's a link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82432,00.html

PS - You might need a map to find out if they were in "the front of the battle".

Originally posted by Supercharts


Count the surnames of the Latinos, Irish, German, French, Scandinavian, Italian, Polish and all other flavors of Americans.
Put it into MS Excel and do a graph.
You could even break it out by male/female.
Here's a link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82432,00.html

PS - You might need a map to find out if they were in "the front of the battle".

By a surname you can not established the real nationallity of the soldier.

I am Swett (an english surname) but I am latino.
Panama and the caribe are full of english surnames.


I will find you the list of the death soldiers and their real procedence.I read it a week ago in a newspaper.
President Bush, in July of 2002, signed a "decreto" (in spanish) that would fastly give the passport and the USA nationality to all the latinos that had "trouble" with their papers, if they join the Army.
31044 foreign active residents belong to the Army. 9871 are latinos that don't have the new nationality.3936 are mexicans.
My country doesn't have an official report , but extra-off , are more than a hundred. I have a couple of friends there.

The numbers were copied from an article of the AFP agency.The article is in spanish language.
http://www.eluniverso.com/core/eluniverso.asp?page=noticia&id=14&tab=1&contid=DDD107FF299F4A469E03F86
67AD34D60&EUID=

Thanks,
S&S

Originally posted by Leif Roar


Where do you have this number from? I find it somewhat incredulous that anyone has detailed statistics about the ethnic make-up of the casualties at this point in time.

Here is a list of the latinos death in combat. According to this link is "only " the 20%. "Only" 9 of 47.(until april2).

You must notice that is not a matter of the resident state in USA. Is according to the real nationallity.There is also another list of 4 dissapeared and 2 prisoners (...) latinos soldiers. Also 1 killed latino new's reporter.

The link is in spanish language.
http://www.terra.com/actualidad/articulo/html/act143116.htm

Thanks,
S&S

This is not an "heroic" girl or woman.

Are just....... (your english is better than mine)

Thanks,
S&S

P.S.
FP picture of this WAR.

I hope my posts solved your doubts.

Thanks,
S&S

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by S&S


Here is a list of the latinos death in combat. According to this link is "only " the 20%. "Only" 9 of 47.(until april2).

S&S

I don't want to put any words in your mouth - so what exactly is your point with all this??

Barkhorn.

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x


I don't want to put any words in your mouth - so what exactly is your point with all this??

Barkhorn.

Hi Bark:

If you read page 3 you will notice that I made a quote to Q-Source.
She was refering the participation of a high percentage of illegal latinos residents in the past Gulf War.

I am just confirming that statement in THIS war.

Just some numbers.
You can put them in the category of "heroic" if you want.

Thanks,
S&S

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by S&S


Hi Bark:

If you read page 3 you will notice that I made a quote to Q-Source.
She was refering the participation of a high percentage of illegal latinos residents in the past Gulf War.

I am just confirming that statement in THIS war.

Just some numbers.
You can put them in the category of "heroic" if you want.

Thanks,
S&S

S&S;

OK - I was reading too much into it. I am not agreeing w/ Q-Source about the supposed "high percentage" - but yes it does happen.

I would also beware of drawing conclusions from that "20% casualties" figure since the total coalition casualties are so low (thank goodness).

Regards,
Barkhorn.

[Supercharts]

"Doctors say Lynch is in stable condition in intensive care, where she was being treated for a head wound, an injury to her spine and fractures to her right arm, both legs, and her right foot and ankle. Gunshots may have caused open fractures on her upper right arm and lower left leg, according to the hospital."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=5&cid=514&u=/ap/20030408/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_jessica_lynch

[kittynh]

My pool boy was saying there was a Warthog on the news, totally shot up...someone it was landed though the other flyers all said it was unbelievable that it could have flown at all, much less landed.

A woman just happened to have brought that baby home. So, how do we define combat? I think someone shooting at you defines combat! I get so tired of people on the forum moaning that unless women are willing to serve on the front lines they don't deserve to be treated as equal members of our society - as if this one thing is what defines anyone as a deserving members of society! So, I guess if enough women get their a**es shot in this conflict we can be treated with dignity? HA!

[subgenius]

Originally posted by kittynh
My pool boy was saying there was a Warthog on the news, totally shot up...someone it was landed though the other flyers all said it was unbelievable that it could have flown at all, much less landed.

A woman just happened to have brought that baby home. So, how do we define combat? I think someone shooting at you defines combat! I get so tired of people on the forum moaning that unless women are willing to serve on the front lines they don't deserve to be treated as equal members of our society - as if this one thing is what defines anyone as a deserving members of society! So, I guess if enough women get their a**es shot in this conflict we can be treated with dignity? HA!
Don't listen to such drivel. Because individuals have different abilities doesn't make those abilities dispensible or of unequal value to society or the armed forces.
These same people would relegate Steven Hawking to selling pencils on the corner. I know because my brother who is totally blind since birth became a lawyer despite this attitude. He also is caring for and the legal guardian of a woman who is quadriplegic. Until he got involved she was relegated to a room, and even before barrier free designs got her out to a baseball game for the first time in her life.
Many women are willing and able to serve on the front lines and some are holding them back. Others may not have the wherewithal but want to serve and have skills that others don't have, but are nonetheless as needed and valuable.
Try having a society without women. Can't be done, so why is your contribution, whatever it is, of any lesser value?
As far as I'm concerned this issue has long been settled. And for those who would try to turn back the clock:
"A person's mind expanded by an idea can never go back to its original size."---(paraphrase of) Oliver Wendel Holmes.

[kittynh]

Thanks sub! I know it's a little bit of a generational thing. But, there is no turning back. Could never replace all those women now serving in the military!

[subgenius]

Originally posted by kittynh
Thanks sub! I know it's a little bit of a generational thing. But, there is no turning back. Could never replace all those women now serving in the military!
Its partly generational cause I'm sure I'm older than the few espousing these reactionary ideas.
Its sad.
But then they tried to destroy Michaelangelo's David after it was finished. There are always those trying to drag others down and back to ignorance. They fear change but the only constant is change.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Lisa
The kid done good. If I want to consider her a hero or not is no one's business.
For those of you (95% of this board) who've never done a day in uniform for your country, she acted correctly. Look up the Law of Armed Combat. Or perhaps you could have your personal trainer do it for you. Don't care. I say, good going girl, and I hope she took a few out.
As someone who spent 20 years in uniform, and has looked down the wrong end of the barrel (for you 95%, that's the pointy end the bullet come out of), I salute this kid.

Hoo Yah! :D
Well said.

[kittynh]

One in seven serving in the military in Iraq are women.

[subgenius]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030421-443114,00.html
Infantrywoman Felicia Harris poses for a picture on the four poster bed at the palace of Uday Hussein

Originally posted by subgenius

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030421-443114,00.html
Infantrywoman Felicia Harris poses for a picture on the four poster bed at the palace of Uday Hussein

Is she a heroic woman???

[Tula]

To all you idiots out here in this post who do not believe that Jessica Lynch is a hero I got one thing to say to you all. She had the balls to join the military, were's yours ? You people who sit here and say Oh just because she was a POW doesn't make her a hero you are so full of s--t that your eyes are brown. As a woman serving in the military myself I can tell you she is a hero. Before capture she fought to the death with the Iraqi gaurds, she's lucky they only took her as a capture. Though with the toture, rape and sodomy she went through she probably wishes she was dead. But she didn't she faught to live and kept her honor. Lets see you ******** and whole asses do the same thing she did and come out alive, 10 bucks say's ya'll wouldn't last 10 minuets. You don't know the traning she went through nor the situation she was in. I may not no the situation she was in but I have the training cause guess what boyo's I'm a medic serving in the United States Navy. And let me tell you this too, more women are droped from boot camp then men even with the differnt male and female standerds for bidy fat and physical fitness. Jessica went above and beyond the call of duty and when the special forces team came into rescue and they pointed out to her that they were soliders you know what her response was. Well I can tell you it wasn't I'm a girl she said I am also a solider. So to all you ****tards out there who think she is nothing more then a POW can kiss my patroitc ass.

((to everyone else in this thread I apoligaze for my sailors toung coming out so harsh))

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Tula
To all you idiots out here in this post who do not believe that Jessica Lynch is a hero I got one thing to say to you all. She had the balls to join the military, were's yours ?



she joined to get an education. Joining the military is not an indication that a person has dedication or courage.




You people who sit here and say Oh just because she was a POW doesn't make her a hero you are so full of s--t that your eyes are brown. As a woman serving in the military myself I can tell you she is a hero.



Appeal to authority.



Before capture she fought to the death with the Iraqi gaurds, she's lucky they only took her as a capture. Though with the toture, rape and sodomy she went through she probably wishes she was dead.



I haven't seen any references to this.



But she didn't she faught to live and kept her honor. Lets see you ******** and whole asses do the same thing she did and come out alive, 10 bucks say's ya'll wouldn't last 10 minuets. You don't know the traning she went through nor the situation she was in. I may not no the situation she was in but I have the training cause guess what boyo's I'm a medic serving in the United States Navy. And let me tell you this too, more women are droped from boot camp then men even with the differnt male and female standerds for bidy fat and physical fitness. Jessica went above and beyond the call of duty and when the special forces team came into rescue and they pointed out to her that they were soliders you know what her response was. Well I can tell you it wasn't I'm a girl she said I am also a solider. So to all you ****tards out there who think she is nothing more then a POW can kiss my patroitc ass.

((to everyone else in this thread I apoligaze for my sailors toung coming out so harsh))

Again with the obession with the anus. This is curiously american.

[subgenius]

Shoshana Johnson

[Tula]

Hey Unique you want proof of Jessica fighting back read Newweek, Times, etc they got the story. As for me I am not assed opsessed except when surounded by pea brains like um you. Now lastly it doesn't matter what she joined for many join the military for college cause there families can't afford it. Either way she's in your not. Bet you went to Canada during Nam while my uncles and cousins served.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Tula
Hey Unique you want proof of Jessica fighting back read Newweek, Times, etc they got the story. As for me I am not assed opsessed except when surounded by pea brains like um you. Now lastly it doesn't matter what she joined for many join the military for college cause there families can't afford it. Either way she's in your not. Bet you went to Canada during Nam while my uncles and cousins served.

I guess you don't have much respect for Dubya, then.

I wasn't doubting that she fought back. I haven't read any references to rape, though.

Now, it is interesting that you seem to be saying that in times of stress and agitation, you revert to anal obsession. When did you first notice this behaviour in yourself?

[subgenius]

By the way I did not go to Canada during Nam.
I had a note from my mom saying I could not go to the war cause I had the sniffles.

My Uncle
Words and Music by Gram Parsons and Chris Hillman


A letter came today from the draft board
With trembling hands I read the questionnaire
It asked me lots of questions about my mama and papa
Now that ain't what I call exactly fair


So I'm heading for the nearest foreign border
Vancouver might be just my kind of town
'Cause we don't need the kind of law and order
That tends to keep a good man underground


A sad old soldier once told me a story
About a battlefield that he was on
He said a man should never fight for glory
He must know what is right and what is wrong


Now, I don't know how much I owe my uncle
But I suspect it's more than I can pay
He's asking me to sign a three-year contract
I guess I'll catch the first bus out today

So I'm heading for the nearest foreign border
Vancouver might be just my kind of town
'Cause we don't need the kind of law and order
That tends to keep a good man underground

[Tula]

Sub,
Your post actually made me chuckle. Do I believe we need to be fighting for Glory no but the fact remains is were there weither we or Saddam's Ba'ath party likes it or not. Jessica is a hero in more ways then I will be able to even imagen let alone understand. But I'll also let you know this Sub you have given me more of an intelgent post, debate, argument whatever the Unique. Which puts a very big smile on my face. Oh and by the way the thing with the sick note from mom that was too cute.:)

[subgenius]

T,
I think if you lighten up a bit you'll find common ground with almost everybody, including aup.
BTW, Dwight Yoakam rules! (Unsolicited rant.)

[Tula]

Sub,
LOL got to love Dwight Yokum and normaly I am a very level headed person. I'm just also a very patrotic person and to hear people say that PFC Lynch is not a hero is irksome. Though no she should not have to have gone through what she did to become a hero. And no I'm not a Leftest :)

[subgenius]

Well I'm about the leftest guy you can meet and I love my country.
Did you know George Washington was a Leftist of his day? Anyway, people can disagree with you and still be OK. AUP's just making a different point which has merit too. I just have a broader definition of hero. Most of us are in one way or the other.
Just about every mom I know is.
This thread is to honor the contribution women are making despite some wanting them to stay scrubbing floors.
If you're in 29 palms you in the marines by any chance?
My nephew volunteered right around Gulf War I and got stationed in Hawaii the whole time. How's that for luck? He got bored though and missed all the snow back in Michigan.
Stay low keep movin.
check out http://www.dwightyoakam.com/main.html

[Chris Haynes]

Originally posted by kittynh
My pool boy was saying there was a Warthog on the news, totally shot up...someone it was landed though the other flyers all said it was unbelievable that it could have flown at all, much less landed.

A woman just happened to have brought that baby home. ...

I assume this is in reference to this story:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/iraq_warthog030412.html

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Hydrogen Cyanide


I assume this is in reference to this story:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/iraq_warthog030412.html
(Another) "Killer Chick"

[subgenius]

Originally posted by subgenius
Shoshana Johnson
Among the former POWs was Shoshana Johnson, 30, of Fort Bliss, Texas, a single mother of a 2-year-old. Johnson, the only woman among them, had been shot by a bullet that pierced both feet...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20070-2003Apr13.html

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tula
To all you idiots out here in this post who do not believe that Jessica Lynch is a hero I got one thing to say to you all. She had the balls to join the military, were's yours ? You people who sit here and say Oh just because she was a POW doesn't make her a hero you are so full of s--t that your eyes are brown. As a woman serving in the military myself I can tell you she is a hero. Before capture she fought to the death with the Iraqi gaurds, she's lucky they only took her as a capture. Though with the toture, rape and sodomy she went through she probably wishes she was dead. But she didn't she faught to live and kept her honor. Lets see you ******** and whole asses do the same thing she did and come out alive, 10 bucks say's ya'll wouldn't last 10 minuets. You don't know the traning she went through nor the situation she was in. I may not no the situation she was in but I have the training cause guess what boyo's I'm a medic serving in the United States Navy. And let me tell you this too, more women are droped from boot camp then men even with the differnt male and female standerds for bidy fat and physical fitness. Jessica went above and beyond the call of duty and when the special forces team came into rescue and they pointed out to her that they were soliders you know what her response was. Well I can tell you it wasn't I'm a girl she said I am also a solider. So to all you ****tards out there who think she is nothing more then a POW can kiss my patroitc ass.

((to everyone else in this thread I apoligaze for my sailors toung coming out so harsh))

The first thing that you need to do, minus the fact that you have no personal skills, is fix your atrocious writing. It brings tears to my eyes seeing you annihilate the English language. Learning how to spell is an art--words are an art. When spelled correctly, the English language can appear as a Picasso and perhaps even a Dickens. When spelled incorrectly, the English language can look like a sewer full of fifty years of garbage, stinking and slimy with green sludge on top.

I suspect also that perhaps you could do well by reading this book I recommend:

Emily Post's Etiquette (16th Edition)
Publisher: HarperCollins; 16th edition (March 1997)
ISBN: 0062700782

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius

(Another) "Killer Chick"

Let's get them all in the Selective Service, Sub-man, under the same standards as men. You have presented an outstanding case in this forum for it, perhaps even Supreme Court level diatribe. I am all for it as well. The US Armed Forces need "killer chicks", especially draftees in national crises at the same ratio as men to end the discrimination against men.

JK

[subgenius]

And women.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The first thing that you need to do, minus the fact that you have no personal skills, is fix your atrocious writing. It brings tears to my eyes seeing you annihilate the English language. Learning how to spell is an art--words are an art. When spelled correctly, the English language can appear as a Picasso and perhaps even a Dickens. When spelled incorrectly, the English language can look like a sewer full of fifty years of garbage, stinking and slimy with green sludge on top.

I suspect also that perhaps you could do well by reading this book I recommend:

Emily Post's Etiquette (16th Edition)
Publisher: HarperCollins; 16th edition (March 1997)
ISBN: 0062700782

JK

I think Spring, and Love is in the air.;)

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Let's get them all in the Selective Service, Sub-man, under the same standards as men. You have presented an outstanding case in this forum for it, perhaps even Surpreme Court level diatribe. I am all for it as well. The US Armed Forces need "killer chicks", especially draftees in national crises at the same ratio as men to end the discrimination against men.

JK
By the way, about your criticism of Tula's spelling, ahem....:p

"Learning how to spell is an art.....";)
"Surpreme"?
"Judge not lest thy be judged."

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius
And women.

Sub-man, it is the perfect time for a bright guy like you to chat with the US Supreme Court about female inclusion into the SS. The USSC will give you permission to petition them since you are such a genius. You are the next best thing since sliced bread sub-man, just to tell you.

Think about how all of this worked out. A female soldier who wasn't even in combat arms gets the war brought to her just by making a wrong turn in a support convoy. It is simply unbelievable that it happened and yet it did. What was even more unbelievable was that she lived to talk about it.

With the leftist media exposure of the incident you could ride this straight into the lime-light. I am quite surprised the feminists haven't lobbied on TV for it. I wonder what their motives are.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius

By the way, about your criticism of Tula's spelling, ahem....:p

"Learning how to spell is an art.....";)
"Surpreme"?
"Judge not lest thy be judged."

I fixed it, so now you can ask your girlfriend to fix her post lol. Good luck. Maybe Hooked on Phonics can help.

JK

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I fixed it, so now you can ask your girlfriend to fix her post lol. Good luck. Maybe Hooked on Phonics can help.

JK
My girlfriend? I think you two are a couple made in heaven. Go for it dude. Read past the spelling errors. She's your kind of woman. Seriously. Its spring and a young (like you) man's thoughts turn to ......

[Tula]

Sub no I'm not a marine I' m a Hospital Corpsman in the Untied States Navy. I am married to a Marine though, lucky for me he got out in 2001 just before all the sh*t hit the fan so to say. Sad thing is my hubby wanted to be a lifer he just got hooked up with the one unit (and every base has one) that makes you rethink your career choice. Though Sub you are right we are forgeting about the other women who this post was ment for. One of the Corpsman I work with his grandmother was a nurse in WWII and she was one of the very select few women that were able to be field nurses at that time. Lets also not forget the women who served bravely in Korea and Nam. Cause if we do forget about these Heroic women this is including the women POW's of operation Iraqi Freedom. Cause if we do forget these brave women who cut the apron strings and said no more, then who will?

Jedi Knight you are like so not even worth my time. Anybody who is so Obsessed with Star Wars that they would call them selves Jedi Knight is not even worth me waist my time typing this to you. Oh and you want to get on my spelling? Why not take a good look at yours. Btw Capt. Kirk and Capt. Pakard could kick Han Sol's and O be One Kanobie's butt any day of the week.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tula
Jedi Knight you are like so not even worth my time. Anybody who is so Obsessed with Star Wars that they would call them selves Jedi Knight is not even worth me waist my time typing this to you. Oh and you want to get on my spelling? Why not take a good look at yours. Btw Capt. Kirk and Capt. Pakard could kick Han Sol's and O be One Kanobie's butt any day of the week.

Of course I am not worth your time--You couldn't afford me.

Your previous post was one of the nastiest things I have ever seen written on this forum and I wasn't going to let it pass. I could care less what you think about me personally--you don't even know me--but when you write drivel like that expect to be called on it.

I am all for "killer chicks", as sub-man talks about, going to the front lines in war. I think that men coming home in body-bags in ratios of 98:2 that of women is discriminatory. I want chicks, all chicks in the Selective Service so they can be drafted under the same standards as men. That means registering at age 18, prison and loss of all educational benefits if they don't (just like men), etc. I want women in infantry units facing the enemy up close and personal. I want them there because until that happens there will be no true equality and equality will be continue to be a lie.

BTW, when you said: "Jedi Knight is not even worth me waist my time typing this to you.", what you meant to use was "waste", not "waist". "Waist" is that monstrous thing that you have to slide those pants you had made at a curtain factory over your ass. "Waste" (wasted matter, time) is what you should have used. Are you a feminist too or just think all women are men?

JK

[Tula]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I fixed it, so now you can ask your girlfriend to fix her post lol. Good luck. Maybe Hooked on Phonics can help.
JK

Originally posted by subgenius

My girlfriend? I think you two are a couple made in heaven. Go for it dude. Read past the spelling errors. She's your kind of woman. Seriously. Its spring and a young (like you) man's thoughts turn to ......


OK thats it Sub no offense to you hun but as nice of a guy that you are sorry Married with 3 daughters. As for Jedi as I stated I have problems with Star Wars buffs. Now don't get me wrong everyone needs a hoby, mine suprisingly is writing poetry, short stories etc, I just normally have a dictanory around me when I write. All bets are off though when in the middle of a rant or pissed off that spelling is going to be any good. And Hooked on phonics no thanks I'll take Sulivan learing center any day of the week Though Jedi back to you :D hehe thought I forgot about you haha not a chance in hell, not only am I a sailor I am a mother and like elephants mothers never forget. I'm sorry Jedi there is more to life out there then Star Wars go take a long the beach, forest, desert, where ever you live and look around. Star Wars is a movie not a life style.
PS: and yes I am a Trekie but a Trekie with a life.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tula
As for Jedi as I stated I have problems with Star Wars buffs.

I am a Jedi Knight because there are hoards of feminist storm troopers running around unsupervised.

JK

[subgenius]

Wow, I think someone is being a little disrespectful to a woman in the service of our country.
Time to steer back to the topic, please.

[kittynh]

I remember Jedi writing something like the worst thing America ever did was kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan because now their women were going to get out of hand. Like wanting to go to school...

Totally made my report this to the FBI list!!!!

but, I have been assured it's just kind of a women thing with him (latent something I was told). I've been assured as long as you're not a woman he's an alright kinda guy, and writes an interesting post ever now and again.

[Tula]

hmm really can't wait to see that but Sub is right we need to get back on the topic. So ummmmmmmm who's up for a game of gin rummy.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Tula
hmm really can't wait to see that but Sub is right we need to get back on the topic. So ummmmmmmm who's up for a game of gin rummy.
Ever play Tonk?

[Tula]

Originally posted by subgenius

Ever play Tonk?

no I haven't but one of my favroit card games I used to play when I was a little girl was this french card game. Can't remember the name of the game to save my life but it had on the cards stop lights and stuff like that. It was pretty much a driving game lol.

[armageddonman]

An update to the "rescue" of Jessica Lynch. Apparently there weren't any iraqi soldiers at all left in the hospital so it was not "heavily" guarded as stated. The US soldiers apparently just walked in, terrorized the staff a little and then took Lynch and the dead US soldiers away.

Isn't propaganda a nice thing? I bet that in the movie a few special forces will defeat a horde of evil iraqis to rescue the beautiful heroine just in time to prevent her rape/execution/whatever.

Link is in german.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,245230,00.html

[Tula]

Armageddon not to be rude or anything but I don't speak or read German and my husband can only speak a little so can you please repost the link with an english translation of the artical. :)That way it is fair to all who want to read what the artical has to say. And btw it was reported here too that the hospital was abondened with nobody there but the staff. Granted at first when Jessic was being rescued the reports were a little confusing as to who was and was not there.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Tula
Armageddon not to be rude or anything but I don't speak or read German and my husband can only speak a little so can you please repost the link with an english translation of the artical. :)That way it is fair to all who want to read what the artical has to say. And btw it was reported here too that the hospital was abondened with nobody there but the staff. Granted at first when Jessic was being rescued the reports were a little confusing as to who was and was not there.

Unfortunatelly - for you - Der Spiegel doesn't publish in English, so an authorized - in terms of the author - translation is not available. I read the article myself and Armageddon's summary covers it pretty well. It's basically the story seen from the eyes of an Iraqi physician who worked in that hospital. The article beeing posted in the "Panorama" section of Spiegel Online, I would replace Armageddon's "apparently" with "allegedly" though ;)

Zee

[subgenius]

Geez we're getting all nitpicky about who's a hero.....she had the courage to even serve her country in the first place.....I admit my definition of hero is rather broader than many.....most ordinary people leading good lives are heroes in my book....its an accomplishment to overcome our baser nature and strive to do the right thing.....

[c0rbin]

Why is she a hero just because she fired at enemy soldiers?

Just got back to this thread and boy are my eyes tired [rim shot].

Danish Dynamite, you asked if I read what you posted suggesting that I hadn't and then you want to know why I think she is a hero.

If you read my post, you will notice that I made claim neither way--hero or not--only suggested that she had bigger balls than you (or me).

[Tula]

LOL thats pretty funny ZeeGerman and too bad spigeal doesn't translate there material. I am always intrested in what other countries have to say about America.

Though Sub is right we are getting nitpicky on what makes a person a hero. As I stated earlier in this post how many of you woul dhave the courgae to join the military let alone (and God forbid too) you faced the same cirstumances PFC Lynch did? Now I joined the military back in 1998 but it to me doesn't make me a hero but to my sister and my daughters and step daughter I am. To me PFC Jessica Lynch is a hero cause she went above and beyoned not only her duty but above and beyoned her training. And lets not forget about how easily she could have been killed so the fact that she came home and came home ALIVE does that mean nothing to anybody?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tula
LOL thats pretty funny ZeeGerman and too bad spigeal doesn't translate there material. I am always intrested in what other countries have to say about America.

Though Sub is right we are getting nitpicky on what makes a person a hero. As I stated earlier in this post how many of you woul dhave the courgae to join the military let alone (and God forbid too) you faced the same cirstumances PFC Lynch did? Now I joined the military back in 1998 but it to me doesn't make me a hero but to my sister and my daughters and step daughter I am. To me PFC Jessica Lynch is a hero cause she went above and beyoned not only her duty but above and beyoned her training. And lets not forget about how easily she could have been killed so the fact that she came home and came home ALIVE does that mean nothing to anybody?

I think Jessica Lynch is great. Absolutely fantastic. She found out what the "front lines" were all about, and the sooner all women in America are added to the Selective Service then they can also get some "diversity" and "multiculturalism" at the front lines as well. Lynch is my hero.

JK

[Wire]

All this talk about heroes remind me an anecdote about J. V. Stalin. Pardon me please if you have heard it.

As you know, during the WWII the soviet union was swarming with heroes. When one foreign officer displayed his surprise about this before Stalin, he replyd that "this has to be a very very brave man, who doesn't want to be a hero of Soviet Union..."

[Tula]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I think Jessica Lynch is great. Absolutely fantastic. She found out what the "front lines" were all about, and the sooner all women in America are added to the Selective Service then they can also get some "diversity" and "multiculturalism" at the front lines as well. Lynch is my hero.

JK

Bravo JK and good point to this day women are still not allowed on the front lines because nobody want's to see there mother's, daughter's, sister's, aunt's, etc on the front lines> I have my own mother tell me if I went over she write me out of her will. Needless to say I pointed out to my mother who encouraged me to join since I wanted to join the police force or FBI (lol I was such an Xhead in high school)will continue my rant later

[kittynh]

I would like to make the shocking claim that European newspapers aren't any more accurate in their reporting than American. Journalists aren't the brightest bulb on the tree. If you have ever been interviewed and then read the article written based on that interview, you never read a newspaper the same way again.

oh, and I've been interviewed by both American and European newspapers.

[Tula]

wow thats pretty intresting Kitty never thought of it that way.
Though guys sorry for leaving my thought unfinished somebody burnt pop corn in the microwave and set off the fire alarm. But to quote myself:

I have my own mother tell me if I went over she write me out of her will. Needless to say I pointed out to my mother who encouraged me to join since I wanted to join the police force or FBI (lol I was such an Xhead in high school) when I got older. Though she doesn't pay attation to that. Cause my mom like most moms will then say this little number "You have children and you shouldn't be away from them they won't remember you. Look how mad (place the name of your child here) she gets when you come home for a 24 hour duty..." after awhile it all sounds something like this; blah blah blah blah. Oh and trust me I'm not the only woman/mother who gets this either I have a boss who got it when she was over in Korea. I've spoken to other females at my comand who's mothers and sisters have told them the same thing. and 2/3 rds of the females I talked to who's parents and other family members that are saying this don't even have kids. Not saying that it matters but this is the crap we women in the military constantly get. When Jessica Lynch was rescued (and later Shoshana Johnsos) my mother called me crying and said OH I'm so glad your in the states and not over there that could have been you. Needless to say I was furous cause I want to be there with my fellow Marines and Sailors. And its not b/c of the glory and the war no its because I want to do what I was trained to do. To be there to help peolpe like Jessica Lynch and Lcpl Chin and Sgt Sutherland (both of who I have met here at my comand). Beacase they are not just hero's they are my fellow comrads in arms. Jessica is a hero for helping her fellow soliders (granted yes most on her truck did die) not for just being a POW.