I'm so bored with the U.S.A

[asi_gonia]

As the Clash song goes.

Anyways. I am from Greece, and this morning I awoke to a morning news show.

There was a report from a journalist in Bagdhad. He showed footage of a father driving a utility vehicle, and in the back of it was his deceased family, wife, children etc. He grabbed his dead daughters' body from the back and showed it to the camera..."Is this what you call democracy ?" he asked. The man was beyond sadness. He was numb to it......

The reporter also showed footage of Iraqi children in a Bagdhad hospital, wounded and screaming in pain. There was one particular boy, who no longer had any limbs. The reporter said that of the 18 member family, only the young boy survived. Understandably the reporter held back tears, until he finally burst into a tirade of swear words........they don't show this sort of footage on CNN do they ?

And then it showed footage of an American soldier who just came out of a fight, addrenalin pumpin in his veins, saying stuff like ("Woooooo man, I was blasting over here, and then someone fired at me, and .......blah blah blah") The kid had a brain the size of a chicken's. He thought he was playing some sort of video game.

Is war/death just a video game to you people ?

[Q-Source]

This is the best the USA can do...

Cowards!

Instead of shooting Saddam's soldiers, they have been killing innocent civilians.

Nobody buys the BS of democracy and freedom that the USA pretends to bring to Iraq. Well, maybe the USA believes so :rolleyes:

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by asi_gonia:
There was a report from a journalist in Bagdhad. He showed footage of a father driving a utility vehicle, and in the back of it was his deceased family, wife, children etc. He grabbed his dead daughters' body from the back and showed it to the camera..."Is this what you call democracy ?" he asked. The man was beyond sadness. He was numb to it......

The reporter also showed footage of Iraqi children in a Bagdhad hospital, wounded and screaming in pain. There was one particular boy, who no longer had any limbs. The reporter said that of the 18 member family, only the young boy survived. Understandably the reporter held back tears, until he finally burst into a tirade of swear words........they don't show this sort of footage on CNN do they ?

And none of this has been happening throughout Saddam's reign, and at a much greater frequency?

This is the best the USA can do...

Cowards!

Instead of shooting Saddam's soldiers, they have been killing innocent civilians.

Actually, the allied forces have inflicted substantial casualties on the Iraqi forces. The coalition has tried to avoid as many civilian casualties as possible, but I don't recall anyone claiming before the conflict that they would be completely avoided.

Shame on you as well for questioning the bravery of US soldiers in the field. It's the bravery of soldiers like them that gives you the security and freedom to talk through your ass without fear of censure, torture and imprisonment.

[asi_gonia]

The bravery of American soldiers/foreign policy has been nothing but a massive pain in the ass for my country pal. So a big F*** you to you

It was my country (Greece) that sacrificed 500,000 people during WW2 so I can live freely today. So a double F*** you to you again.

As for the bravery of the American soldiers, and whether this whole war has tried to reduce civilian casualties, well all I have to say is that the bombs are only as 'smart', as the people who use them.......which makes them dumber than a door post.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by asi_gonia:
The bravery of American soldiers/foreign policy has been nothing but a massive pain in the ass for my country pal. So a big F*** you to you

Why so?

It was my country (Greece) that sacrificed 500,000 people during WW2 so I can live freely today. So a double F*** you to you again.

Sorry, but as horrendous as this loss of life was, it didn't throw of the Nazi yoke, nor prevent the Soviet one being shackled to all of Europe. Poland's sacrifice was similar to Greece, don't forget.

Didn't Marshall aid begin when Britain asked the US to fulfill the promises it made to the Greeks fighting a communist takeover?

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Shane Costello

And none of this has been happening throughout Saddam's reign, and at a much greater frequency?

Civilian casualties? Then why you all whine so much about the deads of the NYC's attack?



Shame on you as well for questioning the bravery of US soldiers in the field. It's the bravery of soldiers like them that gives you the security and freedom to talk through your ass without fear of censure, torture and imprisonment.

I question the "bravery" of the US soldiers, because those inept cowards have been killing civilians (CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN)!!!

Don't you dare to say that I or my country own anything to the USA soldiers. You can kiss their asses as much as you want, but do not ask me to do the same.

[LuxFerum]

anyway... cnn and all the other (aljazzera ,or wathever,too), only show biased information,
the first causualty of war is the truth,
all of this is just bad propaganda.

[asi_gonia]

Your saying that the Greek resistance had no affect in WWII. Typical dickhead American who gains their knowledge from hollywood rather than opening up a book

Firstly the battle of Crete delayed Hitler's invasion of Russia, which meant he had to invade during winter, which took a hefty tole on German soldiers'

Secondly yes, the American's helped fight the communist's, only to replace it with a military Junta which killed and tortured thousands of innocent people. The affects of the Junta are still being felt today.

[Lemastre]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Q-Source


Civilian casualties? Then why you all whine so much about the deads of the NYC's attack?

A society that loses numbers of people to invasions such as the 9/11 attacks or the invasion of Iraq will bewail the losses, just as you are bewailing the loss of the Iraqis.

I question the "bravery" of the US soldiers, because those inept cowards have been killing civilians (CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN)!!!

The troops may be inept or their weapons inaccurate, but don't confuse that with lack of bravery. The U.S doesn't want civilian casualties. Modern warfare cannot avoid them, however.

[asi_gonia]

Who cares about modern war-fare and all your military mumbo jumbo u stupid Texan red-neck !!!!!!!!!! I don't give 2 flying f**s
about it.

Fact is YOU and YOUR country is the ILLEGAL invader of a LEGALLY recognised state. Fact is that NO Iraqi's want you there and are prepared to die to prove it.

Have you seen any pitures of the dead civilians ?? Or does your countrie's administration not deem you 'old' or 'mature' enough to do watch such footage ??

Is everythinh just a game to you people ?? I watch CNN and watch how your reporters and analysts discuss this war much like a football coach talks about strategy before a match.

You're a waste of oxygen.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by asi_gonia

Have you seen any pitures of the dead civilians ?? Or does your countrie's administration not deem you 'old' or 'mature' enough to do watch such footage ??


No, most of them haven't seen pictures of their own dead soldiers.

The US government is applying a very specific propagandist tactic in order to keep the population's war spirit up. They have asked many of the TV channels not to show those images.

Pathetic.

[Tony]

Originally posted by asi_gonia
As the Clash song goes.

Anyways. I am from Greece, and this morning I awoke to a morning news show.

There was a report from a journalist in Bagdhad. He showed footage of a father driving a utility vehicle, and in the back of it was his deceased family, wife, children etc. He grabbed his dead daughters' body from the back and showed it to the camera..."Is this what you call democracy ?" he asked. The man was beyond sadness. He was numb to it......

The reporter also showed footage of Iraqi children in a Bagdhad hospital, wounded and screaming in pain. There was one particular boy, who no longer had any limbs. The reporter said that of the 18 member family, only the young boy survived. Understandably the reporter held back tears, until he finally burst into a tirade of swear words........they don't show this sort of footage on CNN do they ?

And then it showed footage of an American soldier who just came out of a fight, addrenalin pumpin in his veins, saying stuff like ("Woooooo man, I was blasting over here, and then someone fired at me, and .......blah blah blah") The kid had a brain the size of a chicken's. He thought he was playing some sort of video game.

Is war/death just a video game to you people ?

http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

How does it feel to be a bedwetting faggot?

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by Q-Source
This is the best the USA can do...

Cowards!

Instead of shooting Saddam's soldiers, they have been killing innocent civilians.

Nobody buys the BS of democracy and freedom that the USA pretends to bring to Iraq. Well, maybe the USA believes so :rolleyes:

Just when you thought Q-Source could not get any stupider...she really outdoes herself...

I thought her recounting of Castro's glorious "election" by the people was stupid, but this takes the cake.

So the American army are cowards. As opposed to who? The Mexican Army? The same army that bombed villages and killed civilians to get the rebels Chiapas a few years ago? The same army rife with corruption and officers on the Narco payrolls?

I don't really care. I don't hate Mexico. However, if inane comments like Q-Source are fine, then MANY problems Mexico has are fair game...

[Q-Source]

This what the USA is proud of...


Children killed and maimed in bomb attack on town (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=393127)

Reporters from the Reuters news agency said they counted the bodies of 11 civilians and two Iraqi fighters in the Babylon suburb, 50 miles south of Baghdad. Nine of the dead were children, one a baby. Hospital workers said as many as 33 civilians were killed.

Terrifying film of women and children later emerged after Reuters and the Associated Press were permitted by the Iraqi authorities to take their cameras into the town. Their pictures – the first by Western news agencies from the Iraqi side of the battlefront – showed babies cut in half and children with amputation wounds, apparently caused by American shellfire and cluster bombs.

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by Tony


http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

How does it feel to be a bedwetting faggot?

Hi Tony... How did your interview with the Navy went???

Did you got in??

When are you sailing to Iraq??

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Mike B.


Just when you thought Q-Source could not get any stupider...she really outdoes herself...

For starters, this is what Mike B. usually does when he has nothing to contribute with.

He is an expert in ad-homs. :rolleyes:


I thought her recounting of Castro's glorious "election" by the people was stupid, but this takes the cake.

Do you have evidence that he did not win the Presidential elections by majority?

Whine all you want, he did win the elections by majority.


So the American army are cowards.

Yes.

Any army that prefers to kill CHILDREN AND WOMEN are cowards.
Why don't they kill Saddam instead?


As opposed to who? The Mexican Army? The same army that bombed villages and killed civilians to get the rebels Chiapas a few years ago? The same army rife with corruption and officers on the Narco payrolls?

Yes, they are as cowards and inepts as the Mexican Army.
You got it right.

[asi_gonia]

"Bed wetting faggot"

My good Texan cowboy hick.

I spent 18 months in the Greeks special forces, while you were masterbating over some porn site.

I could out-shoot you, out fight you, out-f*** you and out-drink you.

But I still pride myself to being a free thinker buddy.

[Mike B.]

BTW,
I have nothing but respect for what the Greeks did in World War II. When other countries would have simply folded, they said no to Mussolini and counter-attacked into Albania. What is amazing is the outnumbered Greeks did not have a lot of modern equipment. When the Germans occupied the country the Greeks fought guerilla style war to pin large numbers of Germans down which could have been sent elsewhere to fight.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by Q-Source:
Civilian casualties? Then why you all whine so much about the deads of the NYC's attack?

Because the terrorists deliberately targetted civilians at the WTC. The coalition forces are doing their utmost to keep civilain casualties in Iraq to a minimum.

I question the "bravery" of the US soldiers, because those inept cowards have been killing civilians (CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN)!!!

Have you ever been in a warzone? If not, shut up.

Don't you dare to say that I or my country own anything to the USA soldiers. You can kiss their asses as much as you want, but do not ask me to do the same.

I wouldn't dream of it. You couldn't possibly kiss American ass and keep your tongue upo Fidel's derriere at the same time.

Your saying that the Greek resistance had no affect in WWII. Typical dickhead American who gains their knowledge from hollywood rather than opening up a book

Typical European idiot who works himself into an ignorant rant and spews ad homs without reading the location part of my personal info. :rolleyes:

Firstly the battle of Crete delayed Hitler's invasion of Russia, which meant he had to invade during winter, which took a hefty tole on German soldiers'

The invasion of Crete was orchestrted by British commandos. Yes the Greek resistance playerd a brave and vital role in the ultimate defeat of Nazism, but they couldn't have liberated Europe or planned and executed the D-day landings.

Secondly yes, the American's helped fight the communist's, only to replace it with a military Junta which killed and tortured thousands of innocent people. The affects of the Junta are still being felt today.

So Greece was faced with a choice between being a soviet satellite state and being a right wing Junta? The fault lies with the Greeks themselves, not American foreign policy.

[asi_gonia]

The fault lies with American Foreign policy my good Irish friend. It is not by chance
that the biggest American embassy in Europe is the one in Athens. Greece is vital to the Americans in controlling the middle east.

Did you know that napalm was firstly used on Greek civilians after WWII, by the US forces against communist rebels in Greece ?

What the Greeks did during WWII was nothing more than heroic. The British left Crete during the invasion of Crete. They didn't stick around to fight, and
basically left a couple of British and Australian battalions to fend fo themselves in their rush.

Don't talk to me about British heroism. It is non-existant in my book.

If Russia, Greece, and Serbia didn't exists, we'd all be speaking German or Italian in Europe today.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by asi_gonia

Don't talk to me about British heroism. It is non-existant in my book.


Is this fair or neccessary?

[LeFevre]

Originally posted by Mike B.


Is this fair or neccessary?

Probably not, exaggerated rhetoric from all different sides.

[asi_gonia]

Sorry Mike B. You are probably right.

[crackmonkey]

This whole thread is pretty pathetic.

[Shane Costello]

Originally psoted by asi_gonia:
The fault lies with American Foreign policy my good Irish friend. It is not by chance
that the biggest American embassy in Europe is the one in Athens. Greece is vital to the Americans in controlling the middle east.

Can you back this assertion up with hard evidence?

Did you know that napalm was firstly used on Greek civilians after WWII, by the US forces against communist rebels in Greece ?

I wasn't aware that the US committed ground troops to Greece. Again, evidence.

What the Greeks did during WWII was nothing more than heroic. The British left Crete during the invasion of Crete. They didn't stick around to fight, and
basically left a couple of British and Australian battalions to fend fo themselves in their rush.

So what should they have done? Persisted with a hopeless fight and handed North Africa over to Rommel?

Don't talk to me about British heroism. It is non-existant in my book.

Battle of Britain? Dunqerque? "Their finest hour"? Of course "in your book" anyone who disagrees with you is a dumb American who gets their history from Hollywood.

If Russia, Greece, and Serbia didn't exists, we'd all be speaking German or Italian in Europe today.

Now this really is priceless!

Here we have someone bitching about American troops killing civilians in Iraq and bellyaching about American foreign policy, who nonetheless has no problem praising Stalin's USSR, a regime that killed tens of millions of it's own people and enslaved tens of millions more in Eastern Europe, and Serbia, a country at the root cause of the worst genocide seen in Europe since the holocaust.

So tell me, you don't think that the RAF and the D-Day landings had anything to do with the defeat of Nazism?

[Tricky]

There is no doubt that much of the loss of civilian life is due to the tactics of the Iraqi fighters who disguise themselves as civilians, use civilians as human shields and stage attacks from public places.

That being said, this is still America's fault. There was no reason to start this stupid war and it is obvious from the reactions on this board that the US has done itself more damage with its allies than it can ever hope to recover by occupying Iraq. There were no Iraqi attacks while the inspections were going on. There has been no credible evidence that Saddam's war machine was capable of threatening the world.

The US is using weapons of mass destruction even as we speak (bombs are instruments of mass destruction, kiddos). It is impossible to target them perfectly and so "collateral damage" (as we so euphimistically call it) is inevitable. The vast majority of the world now considers us cowards and bullies. Yes, this war was incredible act of stupidity by the stupidest US president ever to hold office, but having outsiders deride them causes Americans (in fact everyone) to rally around their leaders. (It has been said that Bush is the only person who could turn Chirac into a hero in France).

Now, that being said, I hope that the coalition wins this war quickly (to minimize casualties on both sides) as it is impossible that Iraq can win the war. As many have said though, we may win the war, but lose the peace.

BTW, Q and Asi, all Americans and all Texans are not redneck cowboys. There are a huge number of Americans who are against this war. Please do not paint us all with the same brush. It is important that we all look past this despicable act and see the essential humanity in each other if we are to repair the damage that has been done to our international relationships.

[LTC8K6]

Greeks are no less likely to commit barbaric atrocities than any other group of people.

They are no more or less heroic than any other group of people.

[Pak_43]

What the Greeks did during WWII was nothing more than heroic. The British left Crete during the invasion of Crete. They didn't stick around to fight, and basically left a couple of British and Australian battalions to fend fo themselves in their rush.

This blatant piece of historical re-engineering will not go unchallenged....

NZ casualty figures for Crete (http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/casual-ties.htm)

Nobody questions the bravery of the Greek troops during WWII...
However there were 3 British battalions, 2 New Zealanders Brigades, 8 Greek Battalions and 6 Australian Battalions defending Crete.... these troops were committed to the Greek theatre at the expense of clearing the Italians out of North Africa...they were committed at the express instruction of Winston Churchill who wished to show that the last remaining democracy in Europe would not go unaided ...

Churchills report on the war 1941 (http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/410427a.html)

Hollywood? Get with the facts.....

[WMT1]

Originally posted by Tricky
BTW, Q and Asi, all Americans and all Texans are not redneck cowboys. There are a huge number of Americans who are against this war.

Just to clarify, you're not suggesting that anyone who is not against the war is a "redneck cowboy", are you?

[WMT1]

Originally posted by Q-source
He is an expert in ad-homs.

Apparently, so are some Greeks.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Tricky

BTW, Q and Asi, all Americans and all Texans are not redneck cowboys. There are a huge number of Americans who are against this war. Please do not paint us all with the same brush. It is important that we all look past this despicable act and see the essential humanity in each other if we are to repair the damage that has been done to our international relationships.

Tricky,

I agree with everything you said. There is nothing I can object to.

Except that I never called anyone here a redneck cowboy. You can check my posts.

I really don't have any problem with the USA population, you all can have your opinions about this war. Unfortunatly, this board is full of right-wing patriots and I usually lose control with them. My apologies to you.

However, I do have a problem with the USA Foreign Policy that has been invading countries and imposing its own political agenda. This is something that people all over the world have been saying to the USA administration.

Q-S

Originally posted by Tricky
There is no doubt that much of the loss of civilian life is due to the tactics of the Iraqi fighters who disguise themselves as civilians, use civilians as human shields and stage attacks from public places.

That being said, this is still America's fault. There was no reason to start this stupid war and it is obvious from the reactions on this board that the US has done itself more damage with its allies than it can ever hope to recover by occupying Iraq. There were no Iraqi attacks while the inspections were going on. There has been no credible evidence that Saddam's war machine was capable of threatening the world.

The US is using weapons of mass destruction even as we speak (bombs are instruments of mass destruction, kiddos). It is impossible to target them perfectly and so "collateral damage" (as we so euphimistically call it) is inevitable. The vast majority of the world now considers us cowards and bullies. Yes, this war was incredible act of stupidity by the stupidest US president ever to hold office, but having outsiders deride them causes Americans (in fact everyone) to rally around their leaders. (It has been said that Bush is the only person who could turn Chirac into a hero in France).

Now, that being said, I hope that the coalition wins this war quickly (to minimize casualties on both sides) as it is impossible that Iraq can win the war. As many have said though, we may win the war, but lose the peace.

BTW, Q and Asi, all Americans and all Texans are not redneck cowboys. There are a huge number of Americans who are against this war. Please do not paint us all with the same brush. It is important that we all look past this despicable act and see the essential humanity in each other if we are to repair the damage that has been done to our international relationships.

What Tricky has written here is so spot-on, and so accurately reflects my views, that it bears repeating. Tricky saves the thread with sensible analysis, folks.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Q-Source


Tricky,

I agree with everything you said. There is nothing I can object to.

Except that I never called anyone here a redneck cowboy. You can check my posts.

Sorry QS and WMT1. I realize that it sounded like I was making an ad hom. That was unintentional. I only meant to point out that many in the international community do view many if not most Americans as "redneck cowboys" and some of the "gung ho" comments on these boards have done nothing to dispel that image. Asi's metaphor was actually "a kid playing a video game". The US image, never the most sparkling, has been tarnished even more badly by their recent actions. I deeply regret that.

And thanks, EP.

[asi_gonia]

Tricky,

I praise your anti-war sentiment, and thank you for being the most rational American on this board.

I admit that some of the stuff I said went a bit over-board, but words are not enough to describe the images I saw on tv this morning.

5 World Trade Centers are not worth the look in the eyes of the limbness Iraqi kid. The kid had simply no expression whatsoever. He was the only one that survived from his 18 member family. The journalist reporting from the hospital simply broke into tears.

I must say that it affected me greatly. You won't see this stuff on CNN folks.

As I have said 5 World Trade centers are not worth the carnage taking place in Iraq as we speak.

Yah, asi... it'd be nice not to hear such sweeping condemnation of the people of the US. I understand why you write what you do.

We'll win this battle but lose the war, I think. Hussein will be gone, there will be instability in the region...

about the only thing I'm sure of is that we've flushed US-world relations down the toilet for the next hundred years.

[asi_gonia]

I don't care about whether the U.S wins the war, or whether it's diplomatic relations will be affected for the next 100 years buddy.

I just don't give a f***ing ****. I am not an arm-chair general. I don't care about that anymore.

Try telling that to the armless/legless kid I saw on the news this morning. Explain U.S foreign relations to him.

If the news report I saw was shown on U.S television.....the war would be over in a second my good man.

[Lurker]

Originally posted by asi_gonia
As the Clash song goes.

?

Now I am going to have that song in my head all day but I guess that is better than the Blues Clues theme song it knocked out of there.

Lurker

[jj]

Originally posted by Tony


http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

How does it feel to be a bedwetting faggot?

How does it feel to be one of those ignorant people who defines a stereotype for people like that asa_gonia person, who says he owes the USA nothing, not even including an honest, unbiased report (instead of the obviously misrepresented, willfully inflamatory rhetoric he offers, showing his own bankruptcy much like yours) to play with.

You are the kind of person that enables the kind of deceptive insult that asa_gonia makes. You're not a predatory propagandist, you are their fodder. I don't even want to think where that puts you on the totem pole of life.

If the news report I saw was shown on U.S television.....the war would be over in a second my good man.

Not likely, at all. You don't really know much about the common American (USA-er, or -ite) then. We're used to seeing such footage, and have grown somewhat numb to it.

And, as others have and will point out, Saddam was oppressing and murdering his own people. Murder either way, my good man.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by asi_gonia
Tricky,

I praise your anti-war sentiment, and thank you for being the most rational American on this board.

I admit that some of the stuff I said went a bit over-board, but words are not enough to describe the images I saw on tv this morning.

5 World Trade Centers are not worth the look in the eyes of the limbness Iraqi kid. The kid had simply no expression whatsoever. He was the only one that survived from his 18 member family. The journalist reporting from the hospital simply broke into tears.

I must say that it affected me greatly. You won't see this stuff on CNN folks.

As I have said 5 World Trade centers are not worth the carnage taking place in Iraq as we speak.
The media war is indeed just as intense as the military war. Both sides are clamoring to win the sympathy of the world. CNN (and virtually all American news sources) do indeed sanitize their images. This is pretty much required if they wish to be allowed to continue to remain "embedded" with the troops. Yes, it is wrong, but propaganda has always been a part of war.

The Arab news agencies are no better. It is in their interest to show every bit of horror and death, regardless of who was responsible. What they won't show is pictures of civilian-clad gunmen jumping from taxis and throwing opening fire on soldiers, or troops that use sacred shrines as fortresses, knowing that the coalition will be hesitant to attack them there.

Yes, each side has its own version of "truth", and neither is the real truth. But it can pretty much be said that most of this would not have happened if the US had not launched an unprovoked invasion. Saying "they are evil and might attack us someday" is not excuse enough. That is the logic of a terrorist.

Still, I understand how you feel, asi_gonia. It is the same sick, disgusted, furious feeling that Americans and others felt after the 9-11 attacks, or when Soviet fighter jets shot down a Korean commercial airliner. And again, it is the innocent who suffer most.

[jj]

Originally posted by asi_gonia

Should I pass that along to the people I used to work with in New Jersey, one of whose sons body was never recovered? No, I don't think that 9-11 had much to do with Iraq, but you don't seem to care much about the armless, legless, headless corpses that produced.
[B]

Try telling that to the armless/legless kid I saw on the news this morning. Explain U.S foreign relations to him.

How about the POW that was just recovered? Or don't you care about all human beings, just some of them? How about it? Is your "care" a bit selective here?


If the news report I saw was shown on U.S television.....the war would be over in a second my good man.
You obviously have no idea what a nation shocked numb by one atrocity, and then willfully whipped into a psychotic killing frenzy by a "conservative" goverment will do, or what it will take to stop it.

[jj]

Originally posted by Estimated Prophet
Yah, asi... it'd be nice not to hear such sweeping condemnation of the people of the US. I understand why you write what you do.


Duno, prophet, it's been my experience that people who can't distinguish the differences in what they percieve as an opponent are much the same as the ones we have here leading the country, and I can not understand some of the condemnation that either offers.

I would't trust asa any more than I'd trust shrub.

[c0rbin]

Not to be heavy handed, but your are not much better.

A Story of Human Rights Violations of Muslim Migrants in Greece (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5190)

Anti-Semitism (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5093)

Oh the compassion (http://www.vulnerablepeople.org/questions-greece.html)

Free Press? (http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/europe10.html)

Greeks and Terrorism? (http://internettrash.com/users/pkk/a-greekindex.html#greece-pkk-intro)

[Lemastre]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by asi_gonia
Who cares about modern war-fare and all your military mumbo jumbo u stupid Texan red-neck !!!!!!!!!! I don't give 2 flying f**s
about it.

I didn't invent modern warfare, I'm only pointing out that if you engage in it, lots of people can die.

Fact is YOU and YOUR country is the ILLEGAL invader of a LEGALLY recognised state. Fact is that NO Iraqi's want you there and are prepared to die to prove it.

I tend to agree that this invasion is a bad idea. I would prefer a diplomatic way to displace tyrants. I doubt that NO Iraqis want Saddam gone, but if you have queried each of them on this point, I defer.

Have you seen any pitures of the dead civilians ?? Or does your countrie's administration not deem you 'old' or 'mature' enough to do watch such footage ??

Of course I've seen pictures from Iraq. I saw the pictures coming back from WWII, Auschwitz, Korea, and Vietnam as well. People who wage war consider that its casualties are a fair price to pay for a greater good, such as relief from tyranny or to quell a possible threat to their security.

Is everythinh just a game to you people ?? I watch CNN and watch how your reporters and analysts discuss this war much like a football coach talks about strategy before a match.

Would you prefer no discussion at all -- or eveyone leaping through their ******** and hysterically trying to insult everyone as you are apparently doing?

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Q-Source
This what the USA is proud of...

Their pictures – the first by Western news agencies from the Iraqi side of the battlefront – showed babies cut in half and children with amputation wounds, apparently caused by American shellfire and cluster bombs.


The operative word here is "apparently". Reporters are not necessarily experts in weapondry and tactics, nor are most civilians. Just like the bombing of the marketplace (where signs of the explosion were inconsistent with what would be expected from the American weapondry), they could just have easily been staged by the Iraqi government, for propaganda purposes. Such tactics would not be a suprise, considering reports of Iraqi abuse of their own citizens (such as the shelling of their own people in Basra).

Now, I do expect there to be civilian casulties. It is unfortunate, and I feel bad for the people who have lost their own lives, or the lives of relatives. However, I also know that Saddam has been killing his own people for years before. (The most disturbing reports are that he had people put feet first though a plastic shredder). These people should also be mourned, but for some strange reason the news media are not allowed to view these places. More people would have died in the long run had the U.S. not acted.

That's the problem with these type of reports: They point to one 'bad' thing, without pointing out that the alternative (allowing a brutal dictator to continue) may be worse in terms of the number of dead.

Finally, a lot is being made of the 'gung ho' attitude of American soldiers. American military personnel are very well trained and very professional. But, the job they have to do is very difficult. Much of the "bravado" attitude is simply a mechanism people use to help get them through difficult times.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Tricky

Still, I understand how you feel, asi_gonia. It is the same sick, disgusted, furious feeling that Americans and others felt after the 9-11 attacks, or when Soviet fighter jets shot down a Korean commercial airliner. And again, it is the innocent who suffer most.

The only difference is that Iraqi civilians are paying a high price for the people who die the 9-11 when in fact Iraq had nothing to do with it (there is no evidence, only speculation). Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.

The USA is assuming that this is a War against terrorism when in fact it is a War against a rich oil nation ruled by Saddam Hussein.

Bush thinks that they have justified reasons to invade Iraq, but I am pretty sure that many terrorists and extremist muslims will find even more "justified" reasons to attack the USA again.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


The operative word here is "apparently". Reporters are not necessarily experts in weapondry and tactics, nor are most civilians. Just like the bombing of the marketplace (where signs of the explosion were inconsistent with what would be expected from the American weapondry), they could just have easily been staged by the Iraqi government, for propaganda purposes. Such tactics would not be a suprise, considering reports of Iraqi abuse of their own citizens (such as the shelling of their own people in Basra).


Would you apply the same criterion if your country were invaded?

I mean, would you say that your country is killing its own citizens in order to win a War?

Have you ever considered that the USA could have caused those casualties in Iraq?

[Richard G]

Listen up peace-nics. What are you gonna do when I smash you in the mouth with my fist? My bet is your going to retaliate in some way, though there may be some brain dead among you who will give the peace sign and and ague ideology, even as you are hit in the mouth again.

Somebody came over and took a giant **** in our country. We are now retaliating. We are not going to stand and watch someone with a balled up fist hit us in the mouth again. We are going to devestate our enemys until they are dead, or they give up the fight. When the smoke clears, there will be peace, and security for our country.

I know most other countries (cowards) would make concesions, and pay tribute to their enemies, or worse just surrender all together. Americans don't roll over like that and take it in the ass with a smile. Liberty and freedom come with a price. If you aren't willing to pay for it, you really don't have it.

Theres nothing you can do about it, so get over it. Oh, and don't come crying to us when the next giant **** lands in your country.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Q-Source


Would you apply the same criterion if your country were invaded?

I mean, would you say that your country is killing its own citizens in order to win a War?

Have you ever considered that the USA could have caused those casualties in Iraq?

Not very likely, considering:

- Iraqi abuses in the past have been documented by many organizations, including the U.N. and Amnesty International. Its not just the U.S. which is claiming it
- The U.S. has a much freer press than Iraq or any of the Arab nations. Idiotarians may claim that there is a "right wing conspiricy" to suppress the truth, but there are also people who claim the moon landing is a hoax. And given a choice between news sources from a "free" nation, and one from a dictatorship, a person with at least half a brain (which probably excludes you) would assume that the news source from the "free" country is likely to be more accurate.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Not very likely, considering:

- Iraqi abuses in the past have been documented by many organizations, including the U.N. and Amnesty International. Its not just the U.S. which is claiming it
- The U.S. has a much freer press than Iraq or any of the Arab nations. Idiotarians may claim that there is a "right wing conspiricy" to suppress the truth, but there are also people who claim the moon landing is a hoax. And given a choice between news sources from a "free" nation, and one from a dictatorship, a person with at least half a brain (which probably excludes you) would assume that the news source from the "free" country is likely to be more accurate.

An idiot is dodging the questions.....? :rolleyes:

Why I am not surprised?

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by Richard G

Somebody came over and took a giant **** in our country. We are now retaliating.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your retaliating in THE WRONG COUNTRY!!!

When the smoke clears, there will be peace, and security for our country.

And loads of would be terrorists learning to fly planes... A bit incompatible with security.

Americans don't roll over like that and take it in the ass with a smile.

Considering that it's YOUR tax dollars that are going to pay for the war, I wouldn't say that...

Liberty and freedom come with a price. If you aren't willing to pay for it, you really don't have it.

Considering your government attempts to destroy your liberties, and the mindless way that you follow their propaganda, I think your overdue on your payments

Theres nothing you can do about it, so get over it. Oh, and don't come crying to us when the next giant **** lands in your country.

The only terrorist state that worries me at this moment is the US.

BTW, Richie boy, your such a big brave man... Surely your posting from Iraq, no?

[c0rbin]

I think PC extremism is affecting the way people think about it too.

For example, how can a feminist reconcile him/herself with Islam? I know that saying a religion is bad is not PC, but really, women are just as capable as men, why apologize for a segment of society that oppresses half the population? Why is it okay to stone someone to death?

I realize it aint PC to say such thing about a religion, but I think all religions are **********. At least a Southern Baptist woman can make something of herself.

Also, the distribution of wealth in the middle east should have socialists pissed off.

Is America really some colonial baddy when Africa is still realing over ex-domination from Europe?

Oh yeah, Bob Geldoff wrote a song about how they should have Christmas in Africa and raised some money. Great long-term solution, that.

There is real tyranny in the world. From North Korea to the Congo. Why waist your temper shaking your fist at the USA?

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Q-Source


An idiot is dodging the questions.....? :rolleyes:

Why I am not surprised?

And what question do you think I'm dodging?

If my government were killing my own people, I would probably support an invasion if I felt that my life would be better afterwards. But that is a hypothetical situation. They are not killing my fellow countrymen.

But Iraqis are being killed by their government. That is supported by the U.N. and other organizations. Unless of course you don't believe what the U.N. and amnesty international say.

Are you too dense to figure that out?

(Did you really have 2/3 of your brain removed when you became a communist?)

[PogoPedant]

Originally posted by Richard G
Listen up peace-nics. What are you gonna do when I smash you in the mouth with my fist? My bet is your going to retaliate in some way, though there may be some brain dead among you who will give the peace sign and and ague ideology, even as you are hit in the mouth again.
Ah, but would the peace-nics beat your neighbour to a bloody pulp because you hit 'em in the face? After all, someone once thought they saw your neighbour talking to you...

Yeah, that's not a perfectly good analogy, but it is what many think is happening. Public opinion is often far more important than the truth.

[Richard G]

BTW, Richie boy, your such a big brave man... Surely your posting from Iraq, no?
I helped kick there ass the first time. My brother stepped up to the plate on this one.

Considering that it's YOUR tax dollars that are going to pay for the war, I wouldn't say that...
Worth every penny

The only terrorist state that worries me at this moment is the US.
This says it all. I'm done talking to you scumbag.