Should racist spectators be banned from sporting events?

[jay gw]

REUTERS, CLAIREFONTAINE (FRANCE)

Feb 9: France captain Patrick Vieira said he was shocked by racial abuse directed at black players during Paris St Germain's match against RC Lens on Sunday.

Fans in the Boulogne kop at the Parc de Princes unfurled a banner that read "Come on whites"! and racially abused black players on either side.

"I have not played at the Parc des Princes for a long time," Vieira said on Tuesday at France's training headquarters. "And I'll think twice about it before I'm going to go there again.

"In England such abuses are not tolerated any more. There are video cameras which help track racist supporters. And once they are spotted they are banned.

"Similar sanctions could be taken in France. I was really shocked by what I saw at the Parc des Princes.

It's up to the club to sort out this problem. "The French soccer federation must give them a hand and FIFA must give the federation a hand too."

Boulogne kop fans are known for their far right ideology, which often prevents coloured fans standing in their part of the stadium.

PSG wore an all-white strip on Sunday, while the visitors were dressed in black as part of an anti-racism campaign that is being spearheaded by Vieira's Arsenal and France team mate Thierry Henry.

http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/feb/10/10022005sp.htm#A15

Some countries apparently have the ability to ban spectators for their speech. In the US, I'm not sure, but don't think they can even if they wanted to.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by jay gw
Some countries apparently have the ability to ban spectators for their speech. In the US, I'm not sure, but don't think they can even if they wanted to.

I think you are mistaken. As a commercial enterprise they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (any reason excluding race, color, creed as per the law). If you don't believe me (and I hope you don't) go to a football game sometime and start yelling racial slurs at the players. See how long it takes to cart your body out of the stadium.

[Filippo Lippi]

Racial abuse at football matches is a criminal offence in England and Wales.

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
I think you are mistaken. As a commercial enterprise they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (any reason excluding race, color, creed as per the law). If you don't believe me (and I hope you don't) go to a football game sometime and start yelling racial slurs at the players. See how long it takes to cart your body out of the stadium.

If it's American football, and you do tis in the South, and you slur a popular player, your _body_ will be _carted_ out. If you were rude enough, you may have to be _shoveled_ out. If you're stupid enough to sit in the wrong part of the stands, I assume the same applies to international football.

As regretable as this is, Stateside there's this thing appended to the Constitution that allows you to make an @$$ of yourself as long as you don't do anything that ticks off nine old people in the Supreme Court. Unless something like this was somehow delclared *not* to be protected under the First Amendment, you would have all the lattitude you wanted to get yourself flogged and laughed at. I'm not going to claim that racism is eradicated by mean social pressure in all parts of the world or the States. Heaven knows the States haven't got a sparkling clean record when it comes to race relations. Still, if you go running off your mouth about the inferiority of someone's race and their favorite sports team, you're running straight into a big, spiked wall of negative selective pressure.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Filippo Lippi
Racial abuse at football matches is a criminal offence in England and Wales.

Does abuse, in England and Wales, extend to speech? It does (well...comes close) here (US) under certain specific circumstances. I'm not sure the scenerio described meets that test in the state which I live but it varies state to state.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by jay gw
REUTERS, CLAIREFONTAINE (FRANCE)

Feb 9: France captain Patrick Vieira said he was shocked by racial abuse directed at black players during Paris St Germain's match against RC Lens on Sunday.

Fans in the Boulogne kop at the Parc de Princes unfurled a banner that read "Come on whites"! and racially abused black players on either side.

"I have not played at the Parc des Princes for a long time," Vieira said on Tuesday at France's training headquarters. "And I'll think twice about it before I'm going to go there again.

"In England such abuses are not tolerated any more. There are video cameras which help track racist supporters. And once they are spotted they are banned.

"Similar sanctions could be taken in France. I was really shocked by what I saw at the Parc des Princes.

It's up to the club to sort out this problem. "The French soccer federation must give them a hand and FIFA must give the federation a hand too."

Boulogne kop fans are known for their far right ideology, which often prevents coloured fans standing in their part of the stadium.

PSG wore an all-white strip on Sunday, while the visitors were dressed in black as part of an anti-racism campaign that is being spearheaded by Vieira's Arsenal and France team mate Thierry Henry.

http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/feb/10/10022005sp.htm#A15

Some countries apparently have the ability to ban spectators for their speech. In the US, I'm not sure, but don't think they can even if they wanted to.

I am too lazy to actually read your post, but to answer the question you ask: Are we talking about the people's behavior or what people think? Are you asking if people should be banned because of their attitudes? Or are you asking if people should be banned because behaviors which interfere with the rights of others? I very uncomfortable with the idea that people do not have the right to hold any opinion however stupid or unpopular and to express that opinion. I do not believe people have the right to harm other people of to interfere with them living their lives. I do believe, however, that people would in fact be arrested for wearing racist slogans on their shirts at a sporting event. If you believe that the entire point of free speech is to protect unpopular opinion then you have to believe this is wrong. It means nothing to have free expression if can't express yourself freely.

[Dr Adequate]

If I were to start shouting racist abuse at black patrons or waiters in a restaurant, the restareteur would be quite within his rights to bar me from the restaurant in future. This is not an abrogation of my freedom of speech --- I can still say what I like. But he is not obliged to let me say it in his restaurant, any more than he's obliged to let me come round his house and say such things. He has rights as well.

The same applies mutatis mutandis to football stadiums. And a good thing too.

[c4ts]

This should be moved to the Forum Community section.

[phildonnia]

Being exposed to obnoxious aholes is part of the enjoyment of a game. I say let them in.

[Jas]

I know there was a big outcry (at least here) during the Stanley Cup playoffs, when someone in the audience of San Jose held up a sign next to the rink that said 'Iginla', and had a picture of a baboon. Not sure if they ever did anything to the guy though.

[fishbob]

Being exposed to obnoxious aholes is part of the enjoyment of a game. I say let them in. Then identify them on the big-screen, then chase them down with torches and pitchforks.

[wollery]

Stating that you believe that members of a particular racial group are inferior, as repulsive as it may be, is covered by freedom of speech and I would defend anybody's right to hold and state such views.

Standing in front of someone and calling them a f***ing black b@stard is racial abuse and is, rightly, against the law in this country. People who do such things on privately owned property such as a sports stadium, with TV cameras present, should expect to be banned from all such venues and prosecuted under the laws of the land.

Edited to clarify first sentence.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon

As regretable as this is, Stateside there's this thing appended to the Constitution that allows you to make an @$$ of yourself as long as you don't do anything that ticks off nine old people in the Supreme Court. Unless something like this was somehow delclared *not* to be protected under the First Amendment, you would have all the lattitude you wanted to get yourself flogged and laughed at.

Actually it's not protected. It would be protected if the guy were standing 'in the street' - that is, someone on the sidewalk or in a local park can carry around a sign saying "let's go whites", or call black people inferior, or even toss around a couple of slurs. However, once he enters the stadium, it is no longer protected under the Constitution.

[Tmy]

Look at the back of your ticket. Theres a list of actions that will get you booted. Racial slurs is probably there. So yep, they can throw you out.