Rape in the Congo

[Ladyhawk]

WARNING! Graphic descriptions of violence and hatred attached in link , "Postcards from the Edge" Be warned that reading some of these testimonies will be very difficult!

There has been a lot of discussion around the film "Hotel Rwanda" and how accurately it depicted the mass maimings that took place there. Heartless, inhumane and cruel are words that barely describe the torture those innocents endured.

I naively thought that I'd heard or read about every shameful act that man was capable of. Until I read last month's "O" magazine:

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200502/omag_200502_congo.jhtml

I have always been a 'humanist', believing that we innately know what is best for us as individuals and as a society. I realize that some of us deviate from what we know to be true either out of greed, some misdirected notion of justice or as the result of a crippled childhood.

Yet, how can any society, anywhere in the world, produce men (or women) who have such callous disrespect, such hatred, of other human beings. How can one impose such violence and cruelty, without conscience, upon an innocent person? How can one just shoot small children whose only crime is that they tried to protect their mothers?

Rape only begins the drawn out torture process for these women who are often abandoned by their husbands or treated as criminals themselves.

What religion, what political structure could possibly warrant behavior such as this?

I am truly confounded and disgusted. But, I am also resolved and committed now to see if there is anything I can do to help.

[geni]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
Yet, how can any society, anywhere in the world, produce men (or women) who have such callous disrespect, such hatred, of other human beings. How can one impose such violence and cruelty, without conscience, upon an innocent person?

By dehumanising them. It is a pretty common trait


How can one just shoot small children whose only crime is that they tried to protect their mothers?

Because you are thinking long term. Today the child is a minor nusence. Long term he going to be trying to kill your children


Rape only begins the drawn out torture process for these women who are often abandoned by their husbands or treated as criminals themselves.

What religion, what political structure could possibly warrant behavior such as this?



One that wants to destory another group but doesn't have massive militry dominance and gas chambers.

This is only one reason. The GIA did some simular stuff (only worse) I think they just wanted to win control of Algeria. Then of course we get on to the situations where the leadership and probably a fair number of the fighters involved were quite clearly insane.


I am truly confounded and disgusted. But, I am also resolved and committed now to see if there is anything I can do to help.

Help who? Which side? This isn't an army killing civillians. this is two armies trying to wipe out the other side ( rather more than two but there are two main side).

In the DRC there is only one group who don't use these tactis. The pygmies. They made an appeal to the UN about a year back. They are being hunted down and eaten.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by geni


Help who? Which side? This isn't an army killing civillians. this is two armies trying to wipe out the other side ( rather more than two but there are two main side).

With a matter such as this, I never presumed to have to pick sides. There are aid agencies that help the victims on each side of this rebellion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3953747.stm

Medical support and help is greatly needed along with shelter and protection for these women and their children.

[geni]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
With a matter such as this, I never presumed to have to pick sides. There are aid agencies that help the victims on each side of this rebellion.


The Fighting in the DRC isn't a rebellion. If it had happened in europe we would have called it a world war


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3953747.stm

Medical support and help is greatly needed along with shelter and protection for these women and their children. [/B]

Stability is urgently needed until that appears you are mearly increaseing the strength of the sides.

[aerocontrols]

I was very pleased to see this. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/02/news/congo.html)

Good for the UN. I only wish they had sufficient firepower to actually enforce the peace. US soldiers with US airpower would be just fine with me.

MattJ

[geni]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I was very pleased to see this. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/02/news/congo.html)

Good for the UN. I only wish they had sufficient firepower to actually enforce the peace. US soldiers with US airpower would be just fine with me.

MattJ

Except the terain in the DRC is simular to vietnam only bigger (pluss you have more sourounding countries tying to feed the conflict.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by geni
Except the terain in the DRC is simular to vietnam only bigger (pluss you have more sourounding countries tying to feed the conflict.

Ok.

I still wish they had sufficient firepower to enforce the peace, and it would still be fine with me if US soldiers and the US airforce were there.

[geni]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Ok.

I still wish they had sufficient firepower to enforce the peace, and it would still be fine with me if US soldiers and the US airforce were there.

Enforcing the peace doen't work out in the long run. You need to make sure that everyone on the region wants peace. I wish I knew a way to do that.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by geni
Enforcing the peace doen't work out in the long run. You need to make sure that everyone on the region wants peace. I wish I knew a way to do that.

I submit that enforcing the peace can work in the long run.

You make it work by raising the costs of continuing the war, and carving out a region where the peace truly is kept by overwhelming numbers. Make the people outside the region desire the peace inside the region.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by geni

Stability is urgently needed until that appears you are mearly increaseing the strength of the sides.

I'm sorry if I'm being dense but am I understanding you to say that no action is the best action? I fail to see why trying to lend support for medical aid and relief to the women who have suffered through these heinous crimes constitutes some effort to increase the strength of the sides . I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'd just really appreciate it if you would elaborate.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I'm sorry if I'm being dense but am I understanding you to say that no action is the best action?

It seems so. Geni's not sure what will work, but definitely what you or I propose is wrong.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
It seems so. Geni's not sure what will work, but definitely what you or I propose is wrong.

And here I was, afraid that I was jumping to conclusions...:D

[crimresearch]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=10&u=/ap/20050307/ap_on_re_af/congo_rape_3

More on the crisis.

[geni]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I'm sorry if I'm being dense but am I understanding you to say that no action is the best action? I fail to see why trying to lend support for medical aid and relief to the women who have suffered through these heinous crimes constitutes some effort to increase the strength of the sides . I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'd just really appreciate it if you would elaborate.

Sure both side are fighting a war of attrition. The side that hangs on longest wins send in aid they can hang on longer.

[Jocko]

Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.

Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.

If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?

[geni]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I submit that enforcing the peace can work in the long run.

You make it work by raising the costs of continuing the war, and carving out a region where the peace truly is kept by overwhelming numbers. Make the people outside the region desire the peace inside the region.

The people outside include the centeral african republic and sudan. However what the US could probably do is get the countries around the DRC to leave the place alone. Whether they want peace is irrelvant we know from expearence that the involvment they have with the DRC tends to have rather negative results. Remove the sourding countries from the equation and you reduce the problem a lot since the local groups don't have the reasources to moun large scale attacks.

[geni]

Originally posted by Jocko
Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.

Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.

If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?

I suspect that it would not be that hard to get public support for sending a large number of spy planes to the area (because having a better idea of what is going on would be handy).

[geni]

double post

[Jocko]

Originally posted by geni
I suspect that it would not be that hard to get public support for sending a large number of spy planes to the area (because having a better idea of what is going on would be handy).

I'd be just fine if they didn't ask the public at all, to be honest with you. If the rules are gonna get bent, I prefer they get bent for the right reasons.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by crimresearch
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=10&u=/ap/20050307/ap_on_re_af/congo_rape_3

More on the crisis.

Thanks for this update, Crim....

Kippenberg said many young girls are also too afraid or embarrassed to report rape to their parents, or to military authorities in the region. Many die from lack of medical attention after being raped, and some commit suicide rather than seek help.


The article goes on to say that rape of 2-3 year old children is not uncommon; both boys and girls...

These are not 'militia' or 'rebels' committing these crimes against humanity. These are sick and cowardly animals and they should be promptly shot and put out of the world's misery.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I was very pleased to see this. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/02/news/congo.html)

Good for the UN. I only wish they had sufficient firepower to actually enforce the peace. US soldiers with US airpower would be just fine with me.

MattJ

And me. The UN, as I have said before, is only as good as the support of it's members. To blame the UN for this, or Rwanda, is just to blame it's members for inaction.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Jocko
Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.

Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.

If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?

Congo is one of the places I'd like to see added to the USMC world tour. It might cost me a few extra tax dollars, but it would be worth it.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jocko
Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.

Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.

If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?

I wasn't aware that when you said jump, I had to ask "How high"?

[American]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk

I am truly confounded and disgusted. But, I am also resolved and committed now to see if there is anything I can do to help.

The first and most misguided basis of liberal thought. This statement should written in the sky every night, using high-tech satellite lasers, so that we all become numb to it and ignore anyone who says such things.

Not to mention this line is used for everything from stepping in dog-dew, to 20-year-old 'kids' (20 and 11 months) caught underage drinking.

Caaaaring kills babies by the thousands. Whatever it is you wish to prevent (rape?), one can bet that anything we do will result in 5 times the human suffering. Murderous good intentions will destroy everything, and in the end, true motives are mainly to impress a) oneself b) snobby friends at parties.


The best, most moral thing you can do is that which does not require stealing more of our paycheck, "educating" kids, or protecting non-victim "victims".

Whatever that thing is-- LET'S GET TO IT!

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I wasn't aware that when you said jump, I had to ask "How high"?

You're really out in left field sometimes. What could he possibly have said to imply that?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mycroft
You're really out in left field sometimes. What could he possibly have said to imply that?

I have a special ability to know what he really thinks.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I have a special ability to know what he really thinks.

You believe that, don't you?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mycroft
You believe that, don't you?

Absolutely.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by American
The first and most misguided basis of liberal thought. This statement should written in the sky every night, using high-tech satellite lasers, so that we all become numb to it and ignore anyone who says such things.

Not to mention this line is used for everything from stepping in dog-dew, to 20-year-old 'kids' (20 and 11 months) caught underage drinking.

Caaaaring kills babies by the thousands. Whatever it is you wish to prevent (rape?), one can bet that anything we do will result in 5 times the human suffering. Murderous good intentions will destroy everything, and in the end, true motives are mainly to impress a) oneself b) snobby friends at parties.


The best, most moral thing you can do is that which does not require stealing more of our paycheck, "educating" kids, or protecting non-victim "victims".

Whatever that thing is-- LET'S GET TO IT!

Coming from almost anyone else here, this response might have bothered me. But, when I consider the source.....

[Ed]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
WARNING! Graphic descriptions of violence and hatred attached in link , "Postcards from the Edge" Be warned that reading some of these testimonies will be very difficult!

There has been a lot of discussion around the film "Hotel Rwanda" and how accurately it depicted the mass maimings that took place there. Heartless, inhumane and cruel are words that barely describe the torture those innocents endured.

I naively thought that I'd heard or read about every shameful act that man was capable of. Until I read last month's "O" magazine:

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200502/omag_200502_congo.jhtml

I have always been a 'humanist', believing that we innately know what is best for us as individuals and as a society. I realize that some of us deviate from what we know to be true either out of greed, some misdirected notion of justice or as the result of a crippled childhood.

Yet, how can any society, anywhere in the world, produce men (or women) who have such callous disrespect, such hatred, of other human beings. How can one impose such violence and cruelty, without conscience, upon an innocent person? How can one just shoot small children whose only crime is that they tried to protect their mothers?

Rape only begins the drawn out torture process for these women who are often abandoned by their husbands or treated as criminals themselves.

What religion, what political structure could possibly warrant behavior such as this?

I am truly confounded and disgusted. But, I am also resolved and committed now to see if there is anything I can do to help.


There are, indeed, monsters in the world. Thinking that the laws and methods that work with the likes of you and me is silly in the extreme.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Ed
There are, indeed, monsters in the world. Thinking that the laws and methods that work with the likes of you and me is silly in the extreme.

I fail to see why it wouldn't. From what I've read so far, the problem doesn't lie in that there are no laws against these crimes...it is in that they are not enforced. You don't think there would be a different outcome if they were enforced?

[demon]

Jocko:
"Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.
Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.
If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?"


Quite right Jocko. After you have sent your petition to Dubya and Tony, you can get information about signing up here:

http://www.army.com/enlist/requirements.html

Better than sitting back in silence and doing nothing eh? Let us know how you get on.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I wasn't aware that when you said jump, I had to ask "How high"?

Just wanted to know how big your blind spot was. Pretty friggin' big, as it turns out. Maybe they should have included a yarmulke reference in the OP.

It's kinda like the bat-signal for ********.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by demon
Jocko:
"Just checking to see what AUP, Fool and demon have to say about this non-US-related horror.
Nothing at all. Hmmph. Go figure.
If asked to lend air and logistical support, I'm sure we'd manage to scrounge up some forces. Scrounging up public support would be another matter altogether, but I, for one, would support it. Anything's better than sitting back in silence.

Right, guys?"


Quite right Jocko. After you have sent your petition to Dubya and Tony, you can get information about signing up here:

http://www.army.com/enlist/requirements.html

Better than sitting back in silence and doing nothing eh? Let us know how you get on.

Hmmm... opening post 3/4/05, demon makes his entrance on 3/8/05, hot on AUP's heels. Whassamatta, ears started burning?

The marines could get to Congo faster than you got to this issue. Think about that the next time you climb on your soapbox, hypocrite.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jocko
Just wanted to know how big your blind spot was. Pretty friggin' big, as it turns out. Maybe they should have included a yarmulke reference in the OP.

It's kinda like the bat-signal for ********.

You're the guy with the blind spot. When there was talk of invading Iraq, I asked why Saddam, when the world has numerous trouble spots that are bad, like this one. The people of Iraq are entitled to 200 billion dollars of special consideration, this place gets a few troops who are doing all they can to stay alive.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
You're the guy with the blind spot. When there was talk of invading Iraq, I asked why Saddam, when the world has numerous trouble spots that are bad, like this one. The people of Iraq are entitled to 200 billion dollars of special consideration, this place gets a few troops who are doing all they can to stay alive.

And of course, all the non-evil countries of the UN are too busy doing... er, what again?

[demon]

Jocko:
"The marines could get to Congo faster than you got to this issue. Think about that the next time you climb on your soapbox, hypocrite."


As I said before, quite right Jocko. After you have sent your petition to Dubya and Tony, you can get information about signing up here:

http://www.army.com/enlist/requirements.html

Better than sitting back in silence and doing nothing eh? Let us know how you get on ok...wouldn`t want to think you were being hypocritical here.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by demon
Jocko:
"The marines could get to Congo faster than you got to this issue. Think about that the next time you climb on your soapbox, hypocrite."


As I said before, quite right Jocko. After you have sent your petition to Dubya and Tony, you can get information about signing up here:

http://www.army.com/enlist/requirements.html

Better than sitting back in silence and doing nothing eh? Let us know how you get on ok...wouldn`t want to think you were being hypocritical here.

No, now you're just dodging the issue. But that's all right. I have high hopes that you, in time, will learn to use the quote function as well.

BTW, I don't know if I've ever congratulated you on your fine choice of avatar. Not only is it a wink to our Australian friends, but it's a character that is only able to grunt unintelligibly and chuck things at people. A more fitting choice I couldn't imagine.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jocko
And of course, all the non-evil countries of the UN are too busy doing... er, what again?

An excellent question. Why does no-one care about the Congo?

Australia has at least done two recent peace keeping actions, one in East Timor, another in the Solomons.

If you want, you can look up the current peace keeping operations around the world, and past ones.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/bnote.htm

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jocko
Just wanted to know how big your blind spot was. Pretty friggin' big, as it turns out. Maybe they should have included a yarmulke reference in the OP.

It's kinda like the bat-signal for ********.

Irony is, the post I copied was Skeptic doing a turgid assasination on the UN, and how they usually take sex as payment for their protection. Just think, how many of these Bangladeshi troops were out there raping minors before they died?