I Was Absolutely Sure...

[alfaniner]

This refers to the item of the commentator who remember something so exactly... until he was proven wrong.

I had an incident of that tonight. Minor, to be sure, but not the first time I was "absolutely sure" that what I heard was what I remembered.

The movie Footloose has been very important in my personal history, and one phrase I always remembered was John Lithgow's preacher character saying in response to his daughter's question of what he was listening to as "Haydn, I think." I watched the anniversary edition of Footloose tonight (the first time seeing it in many years, and the actual response was "I think it's Haydn." I would have sworn until my life's end that the phrase I remembered was the one that was on screen. (Unless they Lucassed it - then I would be pissed!!)

Actually, there was a phrase in Star Wars - which I had seen a multitude of times, but not in several years - that I was "absloutely sure" was said a certain way, which on reviewing the original editions, was different from what I recalled. (No, this was not a case of "Greedo shoots first". I have the originals and the Special Editions, and it is the same on both.)

That was the first time that I realized that my memory was not perfect. I have been very proud of my near photographic memory and hearing. It is very humbling and enlightening.

[alfaniner]

WELL!!! Getting a little further into the movie I was a little disoriented by the "tractor chicken" scene, most notable for the "Holding out for a Hero" song currently featured in Shrek 2.

I thought that Ren was on one side of the canal and the bad guy on the other, but the conclusion is so badly edited that no wonder I was confused. DAMN, I really liked this movie, too!

[BillyJoe]

I have seen American History X twice, about a year apart. While watching it the second time round, I started to think that there must be two versions of this film. I was convinced that the order of the scenes, especially in the first half of the film, was completely different this time. Must have been the way my brain organized them in memory. It was a truely weird experience

[NoZed Avenger]

My brother and I disagree on which of us was riding a horse that got away from him/me when we were both very young (maybe 8-9 y.o.) -- the horse ran under a tree and he/I struck his/my head on a tree branch.

We both seemed pretty certain about it.

N/A

[Gr8wight]

Originally posted by NoZed Avenger
My brother and I disagree on which of us was riding a horse that got away from him/me when we were both very young (maybe 8-9 y.o.) -- the horse ran under a tree and he/I struck his/my head on a tree branch.

We both seemed pretty certain about it.

N/A

You don't have a brother.

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by Gr8wight
You don't have a brother.


Geeze. It all seemed so real.

[Quinn]

And what is this "horse" thing you speak of? Never heard of it.

[Metullus]

You know, NoZed, we are here to help...

[Moose]

Originally posted by NoZed Avenger
Geeze. It all seemed so real.

Well, it does clear up which of you was on the horse, assuming there was one. :D

[MRC_Hans]

First, a case of unreliable memory (I have photographic recall, too): Back in 1967, I was on a camping holiday in Sweden with a friend. Now, whenever I recall scenes from that trip, in which we are driving, we are driving in the right side of the road. There was a special episode, where we tried to overtake a car, but he had more power than us, and every time we came to a straight piece of road, he sped up, to a point where we could not, or dared not overtake him (most country roads in Sweden were, and are, gravel roads). When we came to a winding piece of road, or a town, he would drive s-l-o-w. Now, that scene is vivid in my mind; even today, I can see the make and color of the car (a light blue SAAB 96), I can almost read the licence plate. And we are driving in the right side of the road. Now, I KNOW that that summer they still drove in the left side of the road in Sweden, and I clearly remember the hazzle of doing that, but I am unable to change the vision in my head. Since I have been driving in the right side of the road forever after, my brain has irreversibly "corrected" the memory.


Second, a case of unreliable perception. In short, during a holiday, I had a problem with the windscreen washer. To correct it, I needed to drain the washer fluid from the tank, but I wanted to save it, so I went to look in the boot of the car for a cannister I seemed to remember I had there (the one the fluid had come in). I did not find it, so I went up into the holiday apartment and got a large empty soda bottle, and commenced to drain the fluid into that. Then I went and opened the boot to put it there while I worked on the pump, .... and there, in the middle of the boot, lay a large plastic cannister, with a good bit of neon-green window washer fluid in it! There was hardly enything else on that boot!

How did I miss it, the first time I looked? I cannot tell you, but... barring magic, it MUST have been there.


Maybe this is the fundamental difference between a skeptic and a believer: When a skeptic experiences something that seems like magic, he/she distrusts his/her perception. Whereas the beleiver sees magic conferimed.

Hans

[NoZed Avenger]

Memory is funny. Some things just stick with you all though life.
For example, the memories of my family outings are still a source of strength to me.

I remember we'd all pile into the car - I forget what kind it was - and drive and drive.

I'm not sure where we'd go, but I think there were some trees there.

The smell of . . . something was strong in the air as we played whatever sport we played.

I remember a bigger, older guy we called "Dad."

We'd eat some stuff, or not, and then I think we went home.

I guess some things never leave you.

N/A

(Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
...
Second, a case of unreliable perception. In short, during a holiday, I had a problem with the windscreen washer. To correct it, I needed to drain the washer fluid from the tank, but I wanted to save it, so I went to look in the boot of the car for a cannister I seemed to remember I had there (the one the fluid had come in). I did not find it, so I went up into the holiday apartment and got a large empty soda bottle, and commenced to drain the fluid into that. Then I went and opened the boot to put it there while I worked on the pump, .... and there, in the middle of the boot, lay a large plastic cannister, with a good bit of neon-green window washer fluid in it! There was hardly enything else on that boot!
Hans

The same thing happened to me!! Except it went like this:
During a vacation, I had a problem with the windshield washer. To correct it, I needed to drain the washer fluid from the tank, but I wanted to save it, so I went to look in the trunk of the car for a cannister I seemed to remember I had there (the one the fluid had come in). I did not find it, so I went up into the vacation apartment and got a large empty pop bottle, and commenced to drain the fluid into that. Then I went and opened the trunk to put it there while I worked on the pump, .... and there, in the middle of the trunk, lay a large plastic cannister, with a good bit of neon-green window washer fluid in it! There was hardly enything else [in] that trunk!

Ah, to be separated by a common language...

Seriously though, I have looked in the refrigerator (the "fridge"), and missed things as large as a gallon of milk.

Next time, I'll tell you about seeing "SOMETHING ON THE WING OF THE PLANE!!!"

[Moose]

Seriously though, I have looked in the refrigerator (the "fridge"), and missed things as large as a gallon of milk.

*sheepish grin* I've once spent a half-hour searching the house for my glasses.

Turns out they'd been on my nose the whole time. The penny dropped, so to speak, when I started wondering about how my eyes seem to have been improving lately.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by alfaniner
*snip*Ah, to be separated by a common language...

*snip*Yeah, make fun of a poor foreigner, if you must....


Hans ;)

[jmercer]

Car keys. The curse of my life. They're out to get me.

There they sit, fully camoflaged, on the wooden table, all innocent, obvious... too obvious, in fact. Hiding in plain sight, completely stealthy by their overtness. Hiding, waiting, lurking... just for the chance to humilate me... because as soon as I've spent 20 minutes looking for them and 5 minutes of cursing about it, I enlist my children, they shed their stealthy sheen. Then, of course, my unwholesomely sharp-eyed children spot them within 5 seconds of searching... and the spend the next month talking about how Dad is getting senile, poor old sot...

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Yeah, make fun of a poor foreigner, if you must....


Hans ;)

Who's to say who is the foreigner? We're all on the same planet (well, except for maybe a couple posters around here!) :)

I always wondered why, on Star Trek, they go to distant planets and call the indiginous population "aliens". Um, no, Captain Kirk, you're the alien there...

[Donn]

This reminds me (or does it...) of my long-gone childhood.
I had made a tray of tea and rusks (or somesuch) for my Dad and I took it to him. He declined it (I can't recall why) and I took it back to the kitchen and put it into the fridge. It fit nicely onto an empty shelf and I left it at that.

A little later, he called me in and asked if he could have his tea now. I nipped-off to the kitchen, opened the fridge and - it was not there!

Now, that was a shock. I remembered it vividly. I looked again just to confirm and my Dad noticed my blank look as I hung on the door staring into the fridge. He asked me what was wrong. I then had to search the entire kitchen and that turned into a search of the house. Finally, dazed and confused I went to him and declared defeat. He said, "Have you tried the oven?" with a knowing look.

Well, damned if it wasn't right there, on a shelf of it's own!

And to make things worse - I remember this story clearly now but I can't recall if I mixed-up the oven with the fridge or vice-versa!

Who am I again?
:)

[alfaniner]

I always wondered about my Mom's magical powers when I was younger. I would look and look for my socks or whatever, then finally give up and ask her. She'd then shout from the other room, "They're right there on your dresser!" where of course, I looked over several times. Just her act of saying that made them magically appear from another dimension. I wonder if saying "socks" backwards would send them back to the other dimension? (Old Superman reference here...)

[Jeff Wagg]

I remember things in mirror image. For example, my old memories of movies often have the characters on the opposite side of the screen.

It's happened so often that I wonder if I had a screwed up TV as a kid.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
And we are driving in the right side of the road. Now, I KNOW that that summer they still drove in the left side of the road It's ON the right side of the road. :)

But this reminds me of a common error I make of which I am entirely unaware. When one of my kids plays up just a little too much for my nerves to bear, I will shout "Sit ON your room", except that I always remember saying it correctly as "Sit IN your room". If it was not for my family insisting, I would swear I said it correctly. I have no idea why this happens.

BJ

[alfaniner]

Possibly due to the regional habit of saying "standing on line", versus "standing in line"?

"On" line always grated on my ears, until I understood that people in different regions (of even the same country) express things differently.

[Brown]

I could have sworn I'd made a contribution to this thread... but it isn't here. The contribution pertained to a fellow who was very certain that he had been listening to a baseball game on the radio, when an announcer broke in and reported that the Japanese had just attacked Pearl Harbor. And yet, he realized that this memory could not be correct, because there were no baseball games in December. (Actually, I was going to write about this, but got interrupted.)

On the subject of memory, I recently experienced first-hand what is is like to be the protagonist in "Memento." I had extreme difficulty remembering what had happened to me recently, but I had no trouble recalling my long-term memories. (I'm now taking medication, and the problem seems to have subsided.)

What was fascinating for me was that I was aware of my problem, and I was suddenly able to point out questionable aspects of "Memento" while also being able to point out the parts that were accurate. One part of the movie that was accurate was that you learn to trust your own handwriting. I was finding notes written to myself, notes that I had no recollection of writing, telling me what I needed to do. Just like Leonard in "Memento."

What was somewhat inaccurate in the movie was the lack of surprise. When you can't remember short-term things, almost everything surprises you, and the sensation of surprise happens very frequently. For example, I went to work on a project--for the first time, I thought--and found that I had already completed the project, having written a 20-page document about it! That, my friends, was a very surprising event. Every day, I was finding that there were things I'd done that I had no recollection of doing, and this kept me quite off-balance.

[MRC_Hans]

It's ON the right side of the road. Possibly due to the regional habit of saying "standing on line", versus "standing in line"?No, in Danish it is IN the (whichever) side of the road. So this is one of the small details that betray the non-native English speaker. Live with it, I do ;).

Hans

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
No, in Danish it is IN the (whichever) side of the road. So this is one of the small details that betray the non-native English speaker. Live with it, I do ;).I've lived in Australia for all but the first two years of my life. Perhaps my Dutch father used to say "sit on your room" to me when I was a kid. Unfortunately I can't remember whether he did or not, and I cannot ask him.

BJ

[rppa]

There is an urban legend about an exchange that happened on the Johnny Carson late-night television show with Zsa Zsa Gabor. Here's the legend: http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/zsazsa.htm

I was very disturbed as an adult to learn about the apparent falsity of this story, because I remember when it happened. My entire life, I remembered being at the bus stop in perhaps 8th grade. And I remember at the bus stop one morning, that one of my friends (I even remember which one) started a conversation with "Did you see what happened on Carson last night?" And then he related with glee the exchange with Zsa Zsa.

The only problem is that the Zsa Zsa incident apparently never happened, so the bus stop conversation couldn't have either.

My only explanation is that there *were* a number of conversations that began that way, and perhaps during one of them somebody said something like "Did you see the one with Zsa Zsa?" and then repeated a story which was already, circa 1968, an urban legend.

[alfaniner]

OK, here's one that may surprise you... Everyone who is old enough remembers watching Neil Armstrong come down the ladder, take that small hop onto the Moon's surface, then saying "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind."

I "remembered" it that way too, until seeing it on "As It Happened" on a cable channel for one of the anniversaries (25th, I think). They showed the real-time news video broadcast with Walter Cronkite. When the got to the moment, I saw Armstrong take his little hop, then waited, and waited, and waited...

"As It Happened"... there was some small discussion first about the condition of the Moon's surface, then he said "OK, I'm going to step off the LEM now." He gently leans over and precisely places his foot onto the surface, then says his phrase.

Just about every clip I've seen since the original broadcast must have shown a certain edited version, because it is much more "exciting" to see that large motion instead of the barely discernable one that did happen.

Check it out for yourself.

Nasa Web Page with Moon Landing Video (http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/features/apollo11_35th.html)
Go to the right side for the Original TV footage. Click to play or right click to save to your hard drive.

I have to say that I'm rather disappointed in that this was not that easy to find. I Googled "moon landing video" and got tons of sites on the first page about the damn hoax. So I added "NASA" to the Google line and that got me to the right place.

[SixSixSix]

I've always thought memory was unreliable.

I have various "pseudo memories" of my early years (pre 5 years old) that I am openly skeptical about. They describe things that my parents have confirmed did happen, but frankly I wonder whether I really remember them, or whether I have constructed them in response to what my Mum and Dad have told me.

On the other hand, I have a fairly scary memory for song lyrics. Even songs I hate. It's not photographic; I often have to think for several minutes to recall the lyrics properly, and I don't get 100% in the cases where the singer is not particularly distinct (Michael Jackson is a classic example of this), but the memories are there.

Hopeless with phone numbers, birthdays, and so on, though.

[Soapy Sam]

My memory is atrocious. For this reason, I'm a memory cuckoo.
As soon as something happens that I must remember accurately, I tell one of several reliable friends. When I need to know details, I call them up and ask for the memory back.

This frees up my neurons for thinking up ridiculous ideas, while effectively borrowing their brain as a hard drive.

It is odd though- I can recall music well enough to "play" it in my head with what seems to be very high accuracy, yet I have no visual memory at all.

[richardm]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Yeah, make fun of a poor foreigner, if you must....


Nothing wrong with what you wrote, Hans, it's Alfaniner with his quaint Americanisms who is wrong ;)

I had a strange thing happen to me the other day. I was doing some woodworking, and was marking out the wood with a pencil. I'd put the pencil down somewhere, and couldn't find it. I checked the workbench, my pockets, the floor, the drawer in the workbench, my pockets again... it was while I was rooting through the drawer for the second time that I realised I'd been holding the pencil in my hand the whole time.

Whoa. Time for a lie down :eek:

[rwguinn]

Originally posted by alfaniner
OK, here's one that may surprise you... Everyone who is old enough remembers watching Neil Armstrong come down the ladder, take that small hop onto the Moon's surface, then saying "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind."

I "remembered" it that way too, until seeing it on "As It Happened" on a cable channel for one of the anniversaries (25th, I think). They showed the real-time news video broadcast with Walter Cronkite. When the got to the moment, I saw Armstrong take his little hop, then waited, and waited, and waited...

"As It Happened"... there was some small discussion first about the condition of the Moon's surface, then he said "OK, I'm going to step off the LEM now." He gently leans over and precisely places his foot onto the surface, then says his phrase.

Just about every clip I've seen since the original broadcast must have shown a certain edited version, because it is much more "exciting" to see that large motion instead of the barely discernable one that did happen.

Check it out for yourself.

Nasa Web Page with Moon Landing Video (http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/features/apollo11_35th.html)
Go to the right side for the Original TV footage. Click to play or right click to save to your hard drive.

I have to say that I'm rather disappointed in that this was not that easy to find. I Googled "moon landing video" and got tons of sites on the first page about the damn hoax. So I added "NASA" to the Google line and that got me to the right place.
Armstrong was quoted by either Clark or Asimov in one of their non-fiction stories--(and no, I can't remember which one) as saying "That's what I intended to say, and that's what I thought I said!"
As I recall, the reference made the point that he was rather emphatic about it, audio evidence to the contrary.
Even the well-trained/rehearsed mind can be mistooken!

Roger

[alfaniner]

Just for clarity, my point was not about the phrase -- that's why I put the "a" in parentheses, but with the edited version of the video that has been shown on virtually every retrospective program that I've seen.

[rwguinn]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Just for clarity, my point was not about the phrase -- that's why I put the "a" in parentheses, but with the edited version of the video that has been shown on virtually every retrospective program that I've seen.

I quite agree--but was also pointing out that Armstrong was quite adamant that he used the "a", despite the evidence. We are talking about memory, here, right?

[Fizzer]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Actually, there was a phrase in Star Wars - which I had seen a multitude of times, but not in several years - that I was "absloutely sure" was said a certain way, which on reviewing the original editions, was different from what I recalled. (No, this was not a case of "Greedo shoots first". I have the originals and the Special Editions, and it is the same on both.)

Actually, it's possible you are remembering correctly despite the old and new videos. During the original release of Star Wars, there was more than one audio mix depending on the equipment various theaters had at the time. There were a few differences, including a couple bits of dialogue that differed between the two. The subsequent video releases have more or less a combination of those original tracks, but still not quite exactly the same.

What was it you remember?

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by rwguinn
I quite agree--but was also pointing out that Armstrong was quite adamant that he used the "a", despite the evidence. We are talking about memory, here, right? This is not the way I remember ( ;) ) hearing it. Wan't there a slight pause after the word "man" as Armstrong suddenly realised that he had goofed on the pre-prepared sentence by leaving out the "a". Fortunately he continued on to complete the sentence instead of going back to make the correction, which would have been disastrous.

Interesting too, that most people see no probelm with the incorrectly worded sentence "This is one step for Man, one giant leap for Mankind". Interesting as well that he reduced his own mention in that sentence by changing "a man" (Armstrong) to "Man" (all of us).

BillyJoe

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by Fizzer
Actually, it's possible you are remembering correctly despite the old and new videos. During the original release of Star Wars, there was more than one audio mix depending on the equipment various theaters had at the time. There were a few differences, including a couple bits of dialogue that differed between the two. The subsequent video releases have more or less a combination of those original tracks, but still not quite exactly the same.

What was it you remember?

I'm not talking about the "Close the blast doors -- open the blast doors" lines. :) I know that some of those things were heard or not depending either on the mix or the quality of the theater's sound system. The other mix difference I recall was Luke saying "I think we took a wrong turn!" In a good mix or multi-channel theater, you heard "wrong turn, wrong turn..." echoed throughout the shaft. In a lesser mix, you only hear the line.

It was Han's line "Sometimes I amaze even myself". Either that or "Sometimes I even amaze myself." Can't even recall which is correct now, but I used one version quite often for a while, and that's why I was surprised when I saw it again after a long break and found I'd been saying it wrong. It's almost as bad as mis-quoting Monty Python.

[alfaniner]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
This is not the way I remember ( ;) ) hearing it. Wan't there a slight pause after the word "man" as Armstrong suddenly realised that he had goofed on the pre-prepared sentence by leaving out the "a". Fortunately he continued on to complete the sentence instead of going back to make the correction, which would have been disastrous.

Interesting too, that most people see no probelm with the incorrectly worded sentence "This is one step for Man, one giant leap for Mankind". Interesting as well that he reduced his own mention in that sentence by changing "a man" (Armstrong) to "Man" (all of us).

BillyJoe

Perhaps it's my Midwestern roots, but I can almost hear (or infer) the "a"... After all, he does say "fer" before man, and it comes out the same way as if I or anyone else here would say "for a month" -- it would sound like "fermonth". I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Brown]

A few comments about the moonwalk. I remember watching it with my parents in their basement. I sat on a maroon overstuffed couch, that was arranged in the room in what would now be considered a rather unconventional way, so that the couch faced the TV. I was on the edge of my seat.

The pictures were awful, shadows mostly. We all wondered what we were looking at.

We tuned in Walter Cronkite at CBS. When Armstrong jumped off the ladder, he landed on the footpad of the LM. This was planned, but to one was unfamiliar with the mission, it looked like he jumped right onto the lunar surface. CBS jumped the gun by flashing "ARMSTRONG ON MOON" on the screen somewhat prematurely, as Armstrong had not yet made his famous footprint. For the benefit of the illiterate, Cronkite voiced over that Armstrong was standing on the surface of the Moon... even though he wasn't.

As for the "One small step" line, I always thought Armstrong got something of a bad rap. If you say the words "That's one small step for a man" at a normal pace and in a natural way, and give just a bit of emphasis to the words "one small step," the "a" almost disappears. It is there, but nearly inaudible, and it doesn't seem to have its own syllable. In order to make the "a" more noticeable, Armstrong would have had to say the line in an unnatural fashion, either by pausing in an inappropriate place or by speaking the word "a" with inappropriate emphasis.

[Reno]

My memory has me hearing...and I am convinced I am right.... "That's one small step for man, one.....diant leap for mankind." he says Diant, not Giant...that's what he says."That's one small step for man, one.....diant leap for mankind."

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by alfaniner
Perhaps it's my Midwestern roots, but I can almost hear (or infer) the "a"... After all, he does say "fer" before man, and it comes out the same way as if I or anyone else here would say "for a month" -- it would sound like "fermonth". I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. As in...."for a man" => "ferman"?

But that would have made it

"This is one step ferman,......one giant leap for Mankind".

There would naturally be a short pause after "ferman" because of the comma, but there was too long a pause.....that was my point!.....as if he suddenly realized he had made a mistake (by omitting the "a"). He then immediately decided to continue on and finish the sentence without the "a", because he realized it would have been disastrous if he had gone back and corrected himself...

"This is one step for man.....for a man....one giant leap for Mankind".

BillyJoe

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by Brown
As for the "One small step" line, I always thought Armstrong got something of a bad rap. If you say the words "That's one small step for a man" at a normal pace and in a natural way, and give just a bit of emphasis to the words "one small step," the "a" almost disappears. It is there, but nearly inaudible, and it doesn't seem to have its own syllable. In order to make the "a" more noticeable, Armstrong would have had to say the line in an unnatural fashion, either by pausing in an inappropriate place or by speaking the word "a" with inappropriate emphasis. So you don't think there was a slightly too long a pause after "man" then?
I wonder has Armstrong ever made a comment about this?