A mysterious way for God to move

[Asolepius]

Some people do choose their moments. Picture the scene. It's Saturday morning, and I am just getting to the end of Randi's weekly commentary. The doorbell rings. Standing outside are a young man and an older woman. Without so much as an introduction, the young man starts to read to me from the Revelation of St John the Divine. When he pauses for breath, I rudely interrupt, with these words:

"Please don't give me this rubbish. This is not the word of God, it was written by men a long time ago when they were deranged. Thank you and good morning."

The young man looks perplexed, the woman smiles with embarrassment, and they depart without another word.

Was I too harsh? How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by Asolepius
Was I too harsh?

For my money, if someone knocks on your door uninvited and offers religious instruction you've no wish to hear, you can dismiss them any way you wish. I'd draw the line at profanities if they have children with them, but that's my only qualifier...

[ahoneycutt]

So far we've only had a couple of different missionaries (from the same religion: mormonism) come by. I asked for a book of mormon from them and invited them to come back in a couple of weeks for some debate...they didn't :(

But, i did get some great fanfiction from joseph smith...for free :)

[P.S.A.]

The last time I had Jehovah's Witnesses, they doorstopped me for a moment, but I was on my way out shortly after; so I quickly explained my reasons for atheism, and mentioned how evidence showed that the Bible in particular was not the inerrant word of God. They seemed really interested in debating this, so they asked if they could come back at a set time? I said sure, gave them a time, and wandered off.

There was a young man and a young girl that day, but when the time came it was a different young girl (they never explained why)... Now, my home has somewhere near 1000 books in it, dealing with every and any religion, new age concept, just about anything which touches upon the extra-normal. My housemate collects them obsessively. But I'd also got some chocolate cake in to make them feel at ease; and when they arrived, I offered them some tea too... But they just saw the sheer depth of information I had at hand and panicked; They sat down for a little, but the gentleman, who'd previously been interested in seeing the evidence I'd mentioned, when I offered him a book which dealth only with how the archaeological record didn't match the Biblical (but accepted the narative of the gospels of Jesus being true), refused to look at it further and started to make excuses about leaving. They drank their tea and then quickly ran off. I had to eat the entire cake myself too. Or maybe reward myself with it :)

We've been doorstopped since, but I've missed them every time. I think my housemate just tries to get pamphlets off them now, so he can add it to his pile of religious material. Personally, I think I'd just politely suggest that they don't expend any energy explaining something they won't challenge themselves, and I won't be persuadable of. If they acted like the resident Prophets here, I'd be more rude, but JW's are usually excessively polite, so I am polite in return. I just wouldn't take them too seriously now.

[Gestahl]

Originally posted by Asolepius
Some people do choose their moments. Picture the scene. It's Saturday morning, and I am just getting to the end of Randi's weekly commentary. The doorbell rings. Standing outside are a young man and an older woman. Without so much as an introduction, the young man starts to read to me from the Revelation of St John the Divine.


Of all the ways I could think of to start a Jesus pitch, that would be about the worst way to go about it. Most people don't even understand Revelations (if it can be understood properly at all). Those people are pretty stupid. They should have started maybe with the beatitudes or some other poetic mushy stuff...


"Please don't give me this rubbish. This is not the word of God, it was written by men a long time ago when they were deranged. Thank you and good morning."

The young man looks perplexed, the woman smiles with embarrassment, and they depart without another word.

Was I too harsh? How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?

Why are you asking *us* if you were too harsh? Seems to me you should ask them, not us. It only matters to you three people anyway. The fact you are asking means you have some guilt over it. Treat them nicer next time, and don't have the guilt.

My way of dealing with them is how I deal with any unwanted saleman. Let them finish their first little pitch (they worked so hard to memorize it), then say "I am sorry, but you are not welcome on my property, and I do not appreciate your visit. I wish for you to leave. You may leave contact information or a card for your organization." Then simply close the door if they try and speak again.

If they do not leave (only happened once with a really crappy salesman), I inform them I will call the police to have them forcibly removed if they do not leave. I think that is fair enough warning and quite clear, polite, and non-confontational (at least to start with). It even lets them get away with thinking "maybe he'll call."

/fat chance

[RandFan]

Having been on a mission for 2 years for the Mormon church I would like to offer my 2 cents. The folks are humans. Many are decent and sincere. I think a simple and firm "no thanks" is quite appropriate. If they persist then by all means treat them appropriately. Close the door in their face. I always accepted "no" as an answer when I was a missionary. It seemed pointless to anger someone in the name of god.

Another tactic that I have used with both missionaries and telephone solicitors goes something like this.

Telemarketer: I always have to interrupt them during their opening spiel. "Excuse me, what is your name? John, I know your work is difficult and I respect your trying to make a living. I'm really not interested. I would like to end this on a friendly note. However if you choose to persist I will become abusive and keep you on the line in an atempt to waste your time."

This has never, ever failed. They always thank me for my time and hang up.

[Asolepius]

Originally posted by Gestahl

Why are you asking *us* if you were too harsh? Seems to me you should ask them, not us. It only matters to you three people anyway. The fact you are asking means you have some guilt over it. Treat them nicer next time, and don't have the guilt.
No no, I do not make myself clear. What I meant was, should I have said something to make them think for a second? Even 1 second would be more than they have been thinking so far. I feel not the slightest bit of guilt.

[sackett]

Asolepius asked, ". . . should I have said something to make them think for a second?"

If you could say anything that powerful, you'd out-orator Cicero, Moses, Demosthenes, Churchill, and William Jennings Bryan all at once.

What you said was fine, because it was succinct and the truth. More than that is not given to mortal Man.

[Asolepius]

Thanks folks - just don't take me too seriously;)

[LostAngeles]

I've been finding that my lack of Spanish has actually helped me in these situations minus one screaming short lady. For instance, this afternoon as I was riding the bus back from class, an older lady boarded the bus and began handing out pamphlets to everyone and speaking about "Cristo." I know enough to know that that's not Mammy shortening's little baby.

She held the little paper next to the young woman sitting on the inside part of the seat next to me and rambled on for about five minutes or so without getting a response. Then she moved on to me.

I simply held up my hand to signify that I wasn't interested in whatever it was she had and shook my head while saying, "I'm sorry. I don't understand." She promptly moved on and I would like to thank her for not speaking English since I deeply suspect that's why she didn't pursue the matter.

[Z]

For about four months, I had a JW come visit once per week, religiously (pun intended). We spend half an hour debating religious issues, and eventually he tired of it, and never showed up again.

One can only lose so many times before one gives up - unless you're a JREF poster.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Originally posted by Asolepius
How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?

I used to invite them some coffe, and talk for hours, literary. This was a long time ago, I liked to see their faces when I talk to them about Buddha, who was just a awake man, Buddhism which is a "religion" with no god and some inconsistencies in the bible. Was fun.

[jmercer]

Basically, I listen for a few moments, then hold up my hand and smile. They usually stop around then and wait for me to comment... at which point I inform them that I'm an active Catholic who has a personal relationship with God... and I thank them for their time, compliment them on their willingness, courage and faith in going to strangers to prosletyze (sp?). I then tell them that I probably won't read any literature they leave because I honestly don't have an interest in converting, but if they really wish to give me some that would be fine.

At that point, they generally thank me politely and move right along to the next house. :)

[Robin]

Originally posted by Asolepius
Some people do choose their moments. Picture the scene. It's Saturday morning, and I am just getting to the end of Randi's weekly commentary. The doorbell rings. Standing outside are a young man and an older woman. Without so much as an introduction, the young man starts to read to me from the Revelation of St John the Divine. When he pauses for breath, I rudely interrupt, with these words:

"Please don't give me this rubbish. This is not the word of God, it was written by men a long time ago when they were deranged. Thank you and good morning."

The young man looks perplexed, the woman smiles with embarrassment, and they depart without another word.

Was I too harsh? How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?
Show them to a comfy chair, put on a big pot of coffee. They never visit twice. In fact I have not been visited by any proselytiser for a while.

Australian documentary maker Jon Safran equiped himself with white shirt, black pants, bicycle, backpack and a copy of "Origin of the Species" and visited Salt Lake City to doorknock people and say "I would like to talk to you about atheism".

In some cases they got quite angry and none appeared to see the irony.

[StaticEngine]

"Ah only worship two gawds. Smith, and Wesson."

That's probably extremely inappropriate, however.


In honesty, the only time in recent history that people came to my door to discuss religion was from some nearby Baptist church (I think.) They said something about being saved, and I commented that I wasn't very religious. "Oh, religion has caused more problems for mankind than anything else. We just want to make sure you've found Jesus Christ, so you can get into Heaven."

My response was, "I think if everyone can learn to respect the beliefs and opinons of others, then every day can be Heaven right here on Earth."

Somehow, this totally perplexed them, and then I smiled and shut the door.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Robin
Show them to a comfy chair, put on a big pot of coffee. They never visit twice. In fact I have not been visited by any proselytiser for a while.

Australian documentary maker Jon Safran equiped himself with white shirt, black pants, bicycle, backpack and a copy of "Origin of the Species" and visited Salt Lake City to doorknock people and say "I would like to talk to you about atheism".

In some cases they got quite angry and none appeared to see the irony. :D

"Why is it that religious folks always want to share their testimony with you but don't want you to share your's with them?" --I forgot

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by RandFan
"Why is it that religious folks always want to share their testimony with you but don't want you to share your's with them?" --I forgot

For the same reason they want you to reject the divinity and existence of all the other gods except for theirs.

[ob986s]

I used to just say things like, "I don't think Zeus would approve of me hearing about your gods, sorry" take a look at their facial expression and shut the door. Now I just say "don't bother and don't come back"

The Zeus line got me some great looks here in the Bible Belt, especially from the Baptist types.

Jon

[Yahweh]

Right now, I have a sign on my door which reads "No Solicitors, Please", and havent been bothered by JWs or Mormons.

Before that, I used to invite them into my house. I like to talk to them, not about anything in particular. The last ones who visited, we talked about hurricanes in Florida: "I used to live in Florida, and in a few years ago we had a particularly bad hurricane season, I think something like 5 hurricanes and 10 or so tropical depressions - it was the same year Hurricane Opal hit, it blew away our metallic shed (it wasnt secured to the ground). The shed blew into a field, just outside of Eglin AFB, but fortunately we were not required to clean it up". And it would go on like this for a half hour, like we were old friends chatting with one another.

I'm not very good at small talk, but when I find a subject I'm passionate about (like hurricanes blowing the shed away in Florida), I can be quite the conversationalist. Nothing rude, just conservation, and the JWs and Mormons enjoy it.

[H3LL]

It has never happened to me here. One of the great joys of being here.

You'll all probably hate me for this, but I do enjoy the fact that if anyone turned up on my doorstep attempting to proselytise ...I can have them arrested. Not surprising that it's not happened yet.

It does take enormous self-restraint to stop myself from ratting on the "secret missionaries" (usually American) that I stumble across.

It's ironic that my first visit to a church for many, many years, and my very first to a Catholic church service, was here.

[Placebo]

Dude, that was a sign! :D
Repent now!

Okay, I would advise not to be rude, but to be blunt.

Why do I advise you not to be rude? Put it this way, these people are going out of their way to help others, albeit in a way that you disagree with. Many of them are genuinely thinking of your well-being. Poor sods.

And try not to give them any reason to continue the conversation - some of them can be damn persistent.

I'd suggest something like this:

*Genuine smile* Thank you for the consideration and time - but I have no belief in the bible. I have already examined it in detail and discussed it numerous times. But good luck *smile*
(and no, don't slam the door in their face :p)
BTW, for some religions the 'good luck' line is laced ;)

If they try to put their foot in the door to take advantage of your kindness, then I say you can start taking out some ammo. Perhaps 'I thought I made it clear. I don't wish to discuss it. Goodbye'

If they keep asking why you don't want to discuss it... well just let them have it :p
They had it coming then

[richardm]

Originally posted by Asolepius
How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?

"I'm a druid, and I'm a very busy druid. Good day."

I've debated with these people in the past - once on the subject of evolution, if I recall correctly- but I doubt I've made much permanent headway with them.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by richardm
"I'm a druid, and I'm a very busy druid. Good day."

I've debated with these people in the past - once on the subject of evolution, if I recall correctly- but I doubt I've made much permanent headway with them.

ROFL ... "I'm a druid, and I'm a very busy druid. Good day." :D
You could try 'satanist' too

Let's put ourselves in their boots for a moment. Wooness and all. You're going door to door trying to find the 'open-hearted' ones to preach your beliefs to. If some determined evolutionist convinced you how wrong your religion is, do you think you would leave the house and tell everyone that the person you preached to has opened your eyes?

I don't think so. It's (1) embarrassing and (2) unlikely to come close to happening in the first place

[EDIT]
In other words they will fight tooth and nail, and even if shown to be wrong will do what most woo's do on this forum - either change the subject or close their ears and go YOUREWRONGYOUREWRONG

[Asolepius]

Let's put ourselves in their boots for a moment. Wooness and all. You're going door to door trying to find the 'open-hearted' ones to preach your beliefs to. If some determined evolutionist convinced you how wrong your religion is, do you think you would leave the house and tell everyone that the person you preached to has opened your eyes?

I don't think so. It's (1) embarrassing and (2) unlikely to come close to happening in the first place

[EDIT]
In other words they will fight tooth and nail, and even if shown to be wrong will do what most woo's do on this forum - either change the subject or close their ears and go YOUREWRONGYOUREWRONG [/B]
Let me bare my soul (which I don't have) on this forum. I had a very devoutly Christian upbringing, and although I never went door-knocking I would stoutly defend my beliefs to anyone, up to my early twenties. Then followed decades of drifting in and out of belief, trying to reconcile it with the facts I knew to be true, as a scientist.

Now I haven't had a sudden conversion to rationality, as it's been building for a long time, but there was a definite point at which there was no going back. What I am trying to show is that you are not going to change belief overnight - you can win the argument, but conviction is much harder to change. People really have to do this for themselves, like I did, by absorbing enough information over a long enough time to develop a coherent view of the universe.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Originally posted by RandFan

"Why is it that religious folks always want to share their testimony with you but don't want you to share your's with them?" --I forgot
For the same reason they want you to reject the divinity and existence of all the other gods except for theirs.

No, it's for the same reason that you don't wanna listen to their shpeeeel in the first place.

[Ossai]

Robin
Australian documentary maker Jon Safran equiped himself with white shirt, black pants, bicycle, backpack and a copy of "Origin of the Species" and visited Salt Lake City to doorknock people and say "I would like to talk to you about atheism".
Did he make a documentary about his experience and if so what is the name of it? I’d be interested in watching it.

Ossai

[EdipisReks]

i just close the door. it gets the point across pretty well, i think.

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by Robin
Australian documentary maker Jon Safran equiped himself with white shirt, black pants, bicycle, backpack and a copy of "Origin of the Species" and visited Salt Lake City to doorknock people and say "I would like to talk to you about atheism".

In some cases they got quite angry and none appeared to see the irony.

If he's a journalist then he must have written an article on it. I tried to find it online but all I learned was that Jon Safran is a jew, an atheist, a journalist, entertainer, and comedian. But, no articles about proselytising for atheism. I must read about it, you wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

[Starrman]

I equate it to Telemarketing. I find it rude for someone to call me at my house to sell me something, and I find it rude for someone to ring my doorbell to try to sell me a religion.

I am rude to them every time - asking them to leave and never come back. I really, really hate being bothered by strangers at home.

I guess I'm just a jerk when it comes to this.

[Jas]

Originally posted by Asolepius
How do you folks deal with doorstep evangelists?
http://valiante.plugnpay.com/scstore/graphics/No%20Preaching%20Large.jpg

I gave one to my sister too. Seems to work so far.

[kuroyume0161]

Originally posted by Jas
http://valiante.plugnpay.com/scstore/graphics/No%20Preaching%20Large.jpg

I gave one to my sister too. Seems to work so far.

Waaaaah! That is sooo special! :)

Where can one get one (or a hundred!)?

I was thinking along the lines of something more subtle like a sign in the front of my house with:

Welcome to the Amish House of Divinity in Worship of Satan

:D