I got a religion and philosophy for ya!

[c4ts]

Made it up myself. Don't worry, it's woo woo on purpose.

1. The year is 4089 a.d. I exist as a hallucinating brain in a jar. The entire world is one big hallucination.

2. I am part of a science experiment. The purpose of the experiment is to keep me hallucinating. If I ever stop hallucinating and awaken, the experiment is over, and I am terminated.

3. All chemical reactions that affect my brain are real and can really damage me, except for the tightly controlled default hallucinogen which constitutes "reality." However, the introduction of these chemicals is controlled by a computer which can read my thoughts, and brooks no interference from the scientists recording my reactions. If the computer were to be shut off, I would stop hallucinating and therefore die.

4. The hallucinogens are extremely well designed and psychoresponsive. After all, it's the year 4089. This is so I can't hallucinate anything unusual through the default drug. If I did, then I would wake up and be terminated. That means no paranormal.

5. If I "die" while hallucinating, then I awaken. If I awaken, I am terminated. Therefore hallucinatory death is real death.

6. Finding out the purpose of the experiment will not result in awakening, as long as it does not turn the hallucination into a lucid dreamlike state. A lucid state would negate the effects of the drugs, causing me to wake up and die. Sorry, no Matrix.

7. Everybody else is either another brain in a similar situation as part of the experiment or just a p-zombie. They just don't know it because they're p-zombies.

Okay, that concludes the philosophical part. Now for the religious part:

1. There is only one way to remain in the experiment and have lucid dream powers over other brains and p-zombies. That way is through me.

2. That way is through me, since I am a half-computer, half-human cyber-entity designed to better communicate with the scientists in control and you guys. I can bargain with them.

3. The easiest way to start this lucid state is to rid yourself of your material posessions. Prefferably if you give them to me, because I can turn them into guns and weapons and stuff for fighting the guys who want to end the grand experiment.

4. If you can't see me doing anything unsusual even though I really am, it is because you cannot reach my state of consciousness and have to learn to overcome your body's crude demands.

5. Wait. Why does turning this into a religion become my bid for world domination?

6. Xenu has to fit into this somehow. Hmmm... on second thought, I'll just scrap the whole thing and go with Logical Deism.

7. I'm sane. Really.

[Jim_MDP]

What did you do, rent The Matrix again?

:D

[Rusty_the_boy_robot]

Where can I sign up! :D

[CWL]

Ok... sure... why not?

Only one question. Where are the Gravitons in all this?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by JamesMGMDP
What did you do, rent The Matrix again?

:D

Well, yes, but I was also trying to make it worse.

[neutrino_cannon]

Obviously Xenu is the ignorant janitor who watches over the jar. He is falling toward the jar, proppeled by he godess's gravitons. We're all doomed.

Unless you read Chick tracs of course, and do away with all immoral sex and that sort of thing.

Or you shoot yourself in the knee and sacrifice thirty two brain MONKEES.

[RonSceptic]

Originally posted by c4ts


Well, yes, but I was also trying to make it worse.

Not easy.

[CWL]

Originally posted by RonSceptic


Not easy.

Agreed. I rarely walk out on movies and I didn't on The Matrix - but I can assure you that I was pretty darn close when it became evident that we humans are in fact nothing but batteries!!! If anyone hasn't seen the movie and I just spoiled it - well, frankly my dear I don't give a solipsistic rat's behind. Take if from me (normally an adherent of the Sci Fi genre) - you are better off not watching that junk.

A question for c4ts - you have "got a religion and philosophy" what for us?

[NoZed Avenger]

COMPUTER controls YOU controls YOUR BLADDER.

No, wait.

NA

[Kiri]

Gee, and to think I worry about how people react when I tell them I'm a unicorn...

Thanks, c4ts, for making me seem normal!

[whitefork]

Since Teller uses it, I'm not ashamed to admit I remember it too

There were green alligators, and long necked geese,
Some humpty-back camels and some chimpanzees,
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as your born,
The loveliest of all was the Unicorn.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
Since Teller uses it, I'm not ashamed to admit I remember it too

There were green alligators, and long necked geese,
Some humpty-back camels and some chimpanzees,
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as your born,
The loveliest of all was the Unicorn.

And since we seem to be in the Chieftain's territory...

Any and all suggestions that unicorns missed the Ark and therefore drowned (hence their alleged extinction) are completely untrue. Unicorns are intelligent and resourceful creatures who needed no help from some old guy and his leaky, smelly boat.

Got questions about unicorns? Ask me... I've wasted considerable time and scholarship on the subject!

[whitefork]

Can they be captured only by virgins?

How accurate is the depiction on the tapestries hanging in the Cloisters?

Does the spiral on the horn go clockwise or anticlockwise?

Species and genus?

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
Can they be captured only by virgins?

The whole virgin-capture story was a Chuch of Rome whitewash, concocted to hijack and figuratively emasculate a rather bawdy folktale. All the business about "purtiy" and "innocence" comes from sex-phobic priests; the actuality is that unicorns usually prefer more-experienced partners (those poor little virgins are always so SCARED), and also, they're not terribly picky about species or gender.
Setting a virgin in a clearing is a poor way to catch a unicorn, but a great way to lose a virgin.


How accurate is the depiction on the tapestries hanging in the Cloisters?

It's pretty close, but the unicorn (ostensibly a stallion) is shown as possessing no primary sexual characteristics (this happens a LOT, really). Go find a horse to stare at; you'll soon understand the magnitude of this omission.
There's a wonderful book (out of print, alas) on those tapestries, titled "The Oak King, the Holly King, and the Unicorn", by a fellow named Williamson. It's a great dissection of the symbolism involved.
Oh- I should mention: unicorns aren't always white.


Does the spiral on the horn go clockwise or anticlockwise?


That depends on which hemisphere you're in.


Species and genus?

Mine? "Unicornis americansis vulgaris"! :p

[neutrino_cannon]

Here's one that has bugged me:

Sometimes unicorns are depicted with cloven hoves. Do unicorns in fact have cloven hoves? If so, it would suggest affinities to the artidactolates (spelling terrible), but if in fact they have single hoves, or hoves of odd number, it would suggest a far more sensible relation to perisodactylates (spelling once again), ie. horses.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon
Here's one that has bugged me:

Sometimes unicorns are depicted with cloven hoves. Do unicorns in fact have cloven hoves? If so, it would suggest affinities to the artidactolates (spelling terrible), but if in fact they have single hoves, or hoves of odd number, it would suggest a far more sensible relation to perisodactylates (spelling once again), ie. horses.

Although unicorns are morphologically similar to the perissodactylates, they in fact have cloven hooves. MUCH more useful for handling beer bottles, cigarettes, and roach clips, you see.

[Jethro]

Hello everyone. I am c4ts' son, from the future. 1012.3 years in the future to be exact. I come with sad news. In my time, all those who have not gained a lucid state were terminated. If you want to know whether or not you will successfully gain your lucid dream state, all you need to do is give me some more of your material possesions. I will use these possesions to find a resonance with your brain and determine if you have achieved the lucid state by my time. If you have not, don't despair. I can help you change history, since for you it's still the future, and ensure that you will gain the lucid state before your plug is pulled. All you have to do is follow me.

[whitefork]

This is great stuff.

Now, I know that not all the equines can be ridden - zebras, for instance are completely hopeless - can the unicorn be ridden?

[Kiri]

I would at this time like to apologize for hijacking this thread. It wasn't intentional; it just sort of spun out of control.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
This is great stuff.

And just BEGGING to be BorBed!


Now, I know that not all the equines can be ridden - zebras, for instance are completely hopeless - can the unicorn be ridden?

Yes, but have some class: at the very least, treat her to a romantic dinner and a movie first.

[asherah]

Originally posted by Kiri


And since we seem to be in the Chieftain's territory...

Any and all suggestions that unicorns missed the Ark and therefore drowned (hence their alleged extinction) are completely untrue. Unicorns are intelligent and resourceful creatures who needed no help from some old guy and his leaky, smelly boat.

Got questions about unicorns? Ask me... I've wasted considerable time and scholarship on the subject!

Isn't it possible that some unicorns did make it on the ark if Noah counted present any creatures still warm in the belly of a T-Rex?

[Jethro]

Bad news guys. I just checked the Articulated Knowledge About Systematic Hallucination Index Computer. It appears that all this talk about unicorns is affecting your ability to lucid dream.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by asherah


Isn't it possible that some unicorns did make it on the ark if Noah counted present any creatures still warm in the belly of a T-Rex?

No T-Rexes on the Ark. Check the cargo manifest if you don't believe me. 'Sides, if there HAD been any, they wouldn't be extinct, would they?

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Jethro
Bad news guys. I just checked the Articulated Knowledge About Systematic Hallucination Index Computer. It appears that all this talk about unicorns is affecting your ability to lucid dream.

Really, I'm very sorry, but they seem to be having more fun with the unicorns...

[asherah]

Originally posted by Kiri


No T-Rexes on the Ark. Check the cargo manifest if you don't believe me. 'Sides, if there HAD been any, they wouldn't be extinct, would they?

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that Noah saved the Unicorns by operating on the T-Rex and removing them but unfortunately the T-Rex never regained consciousness. So, there was one left - a female - but no mate for it, hence, extinction. Hope I enhanced your ancestral knowledge, even if only by a bit. :)

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Kiri


Really, I'm very sorry, but they seem to be having more fun with the unicorns... I like the unicorns too. I just didn't want to miss out on any of the cult forming action.

[whitefork]

Kiri, do you happen to know the earliest mention of the unicorn in literature?

It seems to me they're mentioned in Herodotus, and I've heard rumors of some Biblical passage.

http://www.britwitch.com/dragons/unicorn.html

Ummm - Cryptozoology....

Some possible source in early reports of the rhinoceros reaching Europe?

How about dragons for that matter? We can surely get something better than Velikovsky to explain their presence in so many distinct cultures.

No, I don't think this thread needs to be BorBed.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by asherah


Oh yeah, I forgot to add that Noah saved the Unicorns by operating on the T-Rex and removing them but unfortunately the T-Rex never regained consciousness. So, there was one left - a female - but no mate for it, hence, extinction. Hope I enhanced your ancestral knowledge, even if only by a bit. :)

You have indeed!

Seriously: it was the evolvent nature of symbolism that got me interested in unicorns in the first place. The legend has a history nearly 3K years old, and has acquired layer upon layer of elaboration and meaning during this time: fertile ground for mythographers. This little bit of silliness in which we engage is actually significant!

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Jethro
I like the unicorns too. I just didn't want to miss out on any of the cult forming action.

I tried forming a unicorn cult, but they're just not "joiners"...

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
Kiri, do you happen to know the earliest mention of the unicorn in literature?

The site you cited (http://www.britwitch.com/dragons/unicorn.html) mentions Ctesias- this is the earliest mention of unicorns in Western literature. There are Chinese stories that are earlier, but the chi-lin is a different animal, at least originally.


It seems to me they're mentioned in Herodotus, and I've heard rumors of some Biblical passage.

Herodotus may have been the last person to know everything that WAS known at the time.
The biblical references came about from a mistaken translation of the Hebrew word for "wild ox" (re'em) as the Greek word for "unicorn" (monoceros). Medieval iconography made the unicorn symbolically synonymous with Christ on this (erroneous) basis. I'd have to look up the paticular verses.


Ummm - Cryptozoology....

Some possible source in early reports of the rhinoceros reaching Europe?

Perhaps, sure, why not? Contemporary literary descriptions of unicorns suggest rhinoceri; it's from late medieval artists that we get our pretty, all-white critter.


How about dragons for that matter? We can surely get something better than Velikovsky to explain their presence in so many distinct cultures.

Serpents in general were important in the symbology of earlier, pre-christian cultures; they're archtypical of death/rebirth and immortality, because they shed their skins and come out all nice and shiny. They were therefore thought to share in the creative, regenerative powers of the Mother goddess.

Velikovsky's a moron.


No, I don't think this thread needs to be BorBed.

Okay, as long as you're sure...

[whitefork]

Originally posted by Kiri
Velikovsky's a moron."Moron" doesn't quite go far enough. I like his dragon story, though. Big comet comes out of Jupiter and becomes Venus/Lucifer/some kind of dragon and creates collective species memory, or however that goes.

I like the serpent/dragon theory, but whence the flying and flaming? That part I don't get.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
"Moron" doesn't quite go far enough. I like his dragon story, though. Big comet comes out of Jupiter and becomes Venus/Lucifer/some kind of dragon and creates collective species memory, or however that goes.

I like the serpent/dragon theory, but whence the flying and flaming? That part I don't get.

Dunno about that... Chinese dragons were flying rain-bringers; breathing fire may be a Western allusion to dragons' supposed Satanic connections. That probably influenced the myth. Again, this is another good field to research.

[Beleth]

As one of the scientists monitoring c4ts' jarred brain, I can neither confirm nor deny any of his statements, especially religious part number 7.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Beleth
As one of the scientists monitoring c4ts' jarred brain, I can neither confirm nor deny any of his statements, especially religious part number 7.

He's jarred? I thought he was pickled. :D

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Kiri
Gee, and to think I worry about how people react when I tell them I'm a unicorn...

NOOO! You'll kill them!

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Beleth
As one of the scientists monitoring c4ts' jarred brain, I can neither confirm nor deny any of his statements, especially religious part number 7. Says here you get fired tomorrow. Now we know why.

[Akots]

Originally posted by Kiri


He's jarred? I thought he was pickled. :D

Old uncle Jim's moonshine whiskey-formaldehyde coctail! It burns goin down and it burns comin' out!