How hard is it to get an education?

[fishbob]

a_unique_person stated the following in another thread:
you don't find education in the US, you have to buy it. Not everyone, especially from the impoverished rural communities can do that.Have any of you had any great amount of difficulty getting an education?

I grew up in an impoverished rural community, got a public school education, and worked and borrowed my way through a university degree. My wife did the same. Paid off our last student loans the year I turned 40. Not particularly easy, but not that hard either. Most of my college friends were in similar situations. Is this bad? Should higher education somehow be provided without cost to students?

[iain]

My understanding of the education system in the US was that a high proportion of people get a college (i.e. post high school)education (which is pretty good in itself) but that the state funded colleges do not provide the same level of education as the more expensive ones. Can someone tell me if this is right?

In the UK, for example, fewer people go onto education post-18 but the top universities do not cost much more to attend than the others and the average higher education standard is probably higher.

Edited to clarify when I say the average standard is higher, I only mean that because the top 40% (or whatever it is) rather than the top 70% go to higher education, the average student is brighter and so can do more.

[fishbob]

From my experience: Many of the US state universities provide very nearly the same level of education as the very expensive private schools. They just cost less and are easier to qualify for admission to, and so are not as exclusive. The state and locally funded community colleges generally provide lower levels of education.

[roger]

Quality of state vs private depends on major, of course. But here is a ranking of comp sci Ph.D programs: http://home.macau.ctm.net/~roger/ranking.html

A state school, U. Cali. Berkeley, ranks behind only Stanford and MIT (private universities). There are quite a few more state universities on the list.

It may not be obvious to someone not from the states, but each state gets to independently decide how much to invest in their universities. States that value high quality, low cost (to the student) education will invest more, while states that don't like this type of state sponsership invest less.

For the most part the requirements for in-state tuition are pretty lenient. If I remember correctly most states require you to be a resident of the states for only a short period of time before you are eligable, so it is usually possible to attend a very good school at low cost if you really need to.

[arcticpenguin]

I had no trouble attending a very expensive private university despite coming from a middle class small town background. I qualified for scholarships, grants, loans and work/study.

I treated the loans as a last resort, and accumulated only about US$3000 in loan debt.

[jj]

Originally posted by fishbob
a_unique_person stated the following in another thread:
Have any of you had any great amount of difficulty getting an education?

I grew up in an impoverished rural community, got a public school education, and worked and borrowed my way through a university degree. My wife did the same. Paid off our last student loans the year I turned 40. Not particularly easy, but not that hard either. Most of my college friends were in similar situations. Is this bad? Should higher education somehow be provided without cost to students?

Well, yes and no. I went through a fairly expensive private university on student aid (my background is somewhat similar, except for "impoverished ex-steel town"). Paying off the loans, though, set me back about 6 years in being able to do things like move out of a small rented apartment, etc, starting to save for retiredment.... Having to go until 40 to finish paying off student loans sounds catastrophic to me, unless you had a super-low interest rate, it makes it harder to save, and you WILL get old, there's no good way out of that one. I will say I had one loan that went to the end of it's 10-year payback, simply because it was such a low rate that in the inflationary 80's that I could pay it back with money that was worth less.

The worst part wasn't education, I got an education. The worst part is that I'm still paying, healthwise, for having no health care (primarily dental and arthritis-related) while I was in HS and College, and I always will be paying that. Every time I put my right foot on the ground I get reminded :(

So it goes. It beat staying in a bankrupt steel town where I really didn't fit in. Said town is down about 20% from its peak population, doing much better than Youngstown (the nearest "big city" that is down by something like 50%), and still looking for a new job, basically.

[corplinx]

Even a poor girl from mississippi can find enough funds to go to a private university with high tuition if she applies herself.

[Occasional Chemist]

Originally posted by fishbob
Should higher education somehow be provided without cost to students? [/B]

Well, we already do that for, *ahem*, some students. The real issue we should be discussing is more along the lines of - should we provide enough education for everyone to earn a decent living?

High school doesn't cut it anymore. Even most industrial jobs are after more than a HS diploma. The funny thing is that 4-year degrees aren't the hot area either. It's two-year associate's degrees and one-year diplomas that are most in demand. (I know this because I'm currently developing said diplomas/degrees with industry).

[c0rbin]

Unique tends to spit venom at America.

What he might not understand is that an education doesn't happen to you, you have to work at it.

America provides all with an opportunity, even the poor black kid growing up in Detroit, MI; the poor Mexcian kid in south Houston, TX; the poor white kid in Odessa, TX.

They will have an opportunity to make something of themselves and their family.

[Tmy]

Education is what you make of it. If you bust your hump you can geta good job even if you didnt go to a shiney expensive private school. Though it can be tough you should be able to afford a state school. Not that private schools are better per se'. Its my belief that you may be better off going to public schools because you dont end up with a crushing school debt once you graduate.

Imagine being $50k in the hole and all you have is a bachelors degree???

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Unique tends to spit venom at America.

What he might not understand is that an education doesn't happen to you, you have to work at it.

America provides all with an opportunity, even the poor black kid growing up in Detroit, MI; the poor Mexcian kid in south Houston, TX; the poor white kid in Odessa, TX.

They will have an opportunity to make something of themselves and their family.
Got that right about aup.
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You can pursue education much as the immigrants from the last 30 years from Vietnam who came here on Fonda Boats.
Unlike ‘some’ countries with exams when you are 9 years old that determine what course you take – college prep or ‘technical’ - you can always try again.
Some people were never successfully weaned from Mama’s breast and long, as adults, to be carried through life by the government, state, province etc.
I worked my way through school and paid off my student loans when I was around 35. [I drink a lot of beer] I went to Community Colleges, a State University and had my Masters paid for by my employer.
This is a competitive country. You can’t stop playing.

[Tmy]

Teh University system is not the problem. Its the local elementry/high schools that can be the bar to education. Most poeple dont have a choise on where to send their kids. So many get a crappy education at the local public school. What good is the inexpensive state U if you dont have the basic knowledge to succeed in higher ed.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by Tmy
Teh University system is not the problem. Its the local elementry/high schools that can be the bar to education. Most poeple dont have a choise on where to send their kids. So many get a crappy education at the local public school. What good is the inexpensive state U if you dont have the basic knowledge to succeed in higher ed.

Is this a deliberate ploy to be self-referential? :D

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
Education is what you make of it. If you bust your hump you can geta good job even if you didnt go to a shiney expensive private school. Though it can be tough you should be able to afford a state school. Not that private schools are better per se'. Its my belief that you may be better off going to public schools because you dont end up with a crushing school debt once you graduate.

Imagine being $50k in the hole and all you have is a bachelors degree???

I went to a private college for my bachelor's degree and the tuition alone was $80,000 for four years (8 semesters). I paid for it with my GI Bill (about $40 K there) and the rest with money I had saved for school. I didn't take any student loans and I am so happy I didn't, looking back on it.

I know people in school with me back then that were 50K or more in debt from college, and were going to be even more in debt because of graduate school (law school, medical school, etc).

It is not uncommon to see professionals accrue about $125,000 in debt because of their educations before they finish school.

JK

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Supercharts


Is this a deliberate ploy to be self-referential? :D

I went to a catholic grade school and public highschool. So I dont know what "self referential" means. It must be one of those devil words. :D

[Crossbow]

I have that it is not hard to get a good education. Indeed, I would say that now is probably about the best time in American history to get a good education in almost any area of interest.

However, it is a task that takes a good bit of planning and effort for the work expended in getting that education to actually be worth the costs incurred in obtaining it.

Some run up tens of thousands of dollars in loans and end up getting degrees in things like History, English, Political Science, etc. While these topics are fascinating, good paying jobs in these fields are few and far between.

Others, run up similar amounts in debts and become lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. and there are quite a few well paying jobs in these areas.

A good education is readily available, but one must take a practical approach so that the education obtained will be worth the efforts expended.

[Brickroad]

Right now I'm having a very, very difficult time affording school... not because the opportunities aren't there, but because none of my options look very appealing to me.

I do not qualify for financial aid. I'm stuck in that horrid little niche where I live with my parents, who make too much money to get government assistance with my education, but don't make enough to pay for it themselves. If I lived on my own I'd qualify for aid for school, but wouldn't be able to make enough money to support myself.

I am deathly afraid of going into debt for school, especially considering that even after two years past high school graduation I still don't know exactly what I want to do with my life. I'm seriously looking at a few culinary schools, and am thinking that taking that leap might just be the push I need.

I considered the military after graduation. I thank my lucky stars every single day that I didn't go down that path.

My solution thus far has been to work my way through school while living with my folks, but this can be difficult since I find it challenging to balance a lot of responsibility at once. I've gotten into a routine of working most of the year, then using the money to take classes during the summer.

My formal answer to the question at the beginning of this thread, then, is that I'm sure a lot of people find it difficult to afford college, but I seriously doubt anyone will say it's impossible.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by fishbob
a_unique_person stated the following in another thread:
Have any of you had any great amount of difficulty getting an education?

Sometimes when I drink alot I just can't get it up. But the wife helps out.
[It's after 4PM :D ]

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
I had no trouble attending a very expensive private university despite coming from a middle class small town background. I qualified for scholarships, grants, loans and work/study.

I treated the loans as a last resort, and accumulated only about US$3000 in loan debt.

Scholarships are not available to all. By their nature, they are selective.

[Nasarius]

Originally posted by Brickroad
I do not qualify for financial aid. I'm stuck in that horrid little niche where I live with my parents, who make too much money to get government assistance with my education, but don't make enough to pay for it themselves.

Same here. Fortunately for me, New York State public universities are generally of good quality and not too expensive.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Unique tends to spit venom at America.

What he might not understand is that an education doesn't happen to you, you have to work at it.

America provides all with an opportunity, even the poor black kid growing up in Detroit, MI; the poor Mexcian kid in south Houston, TX; the poor white kid in Odessa, TX.

They will have an opportunity to make something of themselves and their family.

I was not spitting venom at america. I was just pointing out that for many people, the army is the only way to get an advanced education.

As JK points out, you can end up owing a fortune, which severly limits your ability to then own a car, house, have a family, etc. For example, a woman who wants an education and have a family is going to be in a lot of trouble doing both.

I Australia, University education was free until about ten years ago. It is still subsidised, but you get a government 'loan' that is paid back in with your taxes. The big advantage of the scheme is that you only pay it back while you earn a certain amount. That is, if you are not earning much money, you don't have to pay any money back during that time.

It is possible to have opportunity and not make it necessary for people to join the armed forces.

[Number Six]

I agree with what someone else said...you get what you put into it. If you put a lot into it you can get a good education even at a state U instead of a private U. I think part of the problem is that people aren't oriented towards getting an education. I mean, you can't just screw around your whole life and then go to college and kick butt. Or you can't get to college and say "I'll just do enough to get by." You can do that and perhaps you'll be able to get by but you won't be getting a great education. On the other hand, if you put a lot into it (maybe even do more than the minimum they ask you to do) and care about the kind of education you're getting, you can learn a lot even at an "average" school.

I think that what attending elite private schools gives that big, public schools don't are social networks with wealthy and/or important people (or the sons and daughters of them) and the opportunity for various programs that regular schools don't have. So in that sense of special programs (ie, internships, or affiliations with certain professional societies, etc) an elite school can give you a better education but as far as day to day learning from classes, I don't think the school is that important.