Suggestions and discussions.

[Mycroft]

So far in the slush pile of things to consider we have five entries:

"On Bullsh*t" by Harry Frankfurt, suggested by Webfusion
"Flyboys" by James Bradley, suggested by Kodiac
"Blink"[/i] and [/i]"Tipping point"[/i] by Malcolm Gladwell, suggested by IllegalArgument, and
[i]"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.

This is the time and place to add to this list. Nobody should feel pressured as there is plenty of time before another selection is chosen since we already have The Media Monopoly (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586482610/104-3969279-3869514) in queue, but I wanted to put the list up so as to get people thinking of influential books they have read or books of interest they come across.

[BPSCG]

Might be nice if some of the radical lefties around here (y'all know who you are...) would recommend something.

[aerocontrols]

Hardball by Chris Matthews

[varwoche]

Imperial Hubris

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by varwoche
Imperial Hubris

Alright, both Hardball and Imperial Hubris added to the list.

[Matabiri]

Collapse, by Jared Diamond.

[CBL4]

I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are:
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond
The Tipping Point by Gladwell
Moral Animal by Robert Wright (This might be more technical than we want but it is an interesting book)
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker (actually this is new)

CBL

[Cleopatra]

The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days.

All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance.

Thanks!!

[punchdrunk]

I would suggest moving "Imperial Hubris" up the list. I think it would make for good discussion to contrast against "The Case for Democracy".

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days.

All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance.

Thanks!!

Cleo, Powell's Bookstore (http://www.powells.com) ships internationally and is famous for being able to locate any book quickly new or used. They may be a valuable resource for you in keeping up. As it is I’m sure we can do this so we have a complete month to acquire our next selection, and I think that will give you time to get the book.

[Roadtoad]

How about Stephen Ambrose's To America.

[Cain]

Well, I will soon begin _Cyborg Citizen: Why Human Societies Must Respond to the Redesigned Human Future_ by James Hughes. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813341981/qid=1112216555/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-3512033-9277735?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It's a progressive/liberal/democratic take on the doctrine/movement of transhumanism.

I won't mind discussing other books on transhumanism that are on my "to do" list:

_Enough_ by Bill McKibben (liberal environmentalist against transhumanism.)

_Our Posthuman Future_ by Francis Fukuyama (Conservative political scientist inveighing against biotechnology.)

_Cyborg Citizen_ by Chris Gray (Anarcho-socialist in favor of biotech)

_Redesigning Humans_ by Gregory Stock (I've actually already read this one. It's sort of libertarianish but leaves questions of social justice, ethics, and politics aside in order to explain that our Promethean desire to become more than what we are, along with effective markets and technology, will inevitably alter humanity as we know it.)

A nice overview on Transhumanism can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism).

Some aspects of this stuff, especially when it comes to cryogenics and nanotechnology, sounds a bit kooky. But I would be interested in discussing these matters with the people on this board who are drawn to issues where science challenges our common moral beliefs (bioethics, basically).

[RandFan]

If there is no time limit then I would love to discuss Upton Sinclair's the Jungle. A personal favorite of mine, a number of my more conservative friends claim that it is more a work of fiction and propaganda.

[Mycroft]

RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought.

Okay, the new list is....

"Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL
"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.
The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch
Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols
Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache
Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL
Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL
To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan

I'm striking "On B*llsh*t" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political.

Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy".

However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions.

[CBL4]

I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0807061875/qid=1112993790/sr=2-1/102-5223044-0970506?v=glance&s=books

I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one.

CBL

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by CBL4
I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian.


Wow, I didn't notice it until you brought it up.

Checking out Amazon, it looks as though this book has been updated every few years from 1986 until 2000, and then the new edition was printed in 2004.

I'm gonna guess all these books are similar in that they all show how our news media are owned by a small number of corporations, and that the newer editions are pretty much the same except they show how the trend continues.

With that in mind, I'm gonna guess "The New Media Monopoly" would be the preferred edition to get, but if for whatever reason someone finds it hard to get that one, then any of the other editions will expose them to the key ideas so that they may be intellegently discussed.

Originally posted by CBL4
I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one.


My library has an exchange program with other libraries where you can request they borrow materials for you. You might check into that.

[Cain]

Originally posted by Mycroft
RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought.

Okay, the new list is....

"Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL
"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.
The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch
Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols
Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache
Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL
Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL
To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan

I'm striking "On B*llsh*t" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political.

Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy".

However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions.

Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Cain
Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion.

I'm open to being sold. The book looks interesting, I just have doubts. How much politics can there really be to medical prosthetics? Is this something we would really prefer to discuss over understanding the Middle East or how the media shapes our views?

I'll keep an open mind.

At the same time, have you read "The Case for Democracy" or "The Media Monopoly" yet?

[Cain]

A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it.

I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Cain
A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it.

I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s.

I assume you remember enough of it to contribute to a discussion. How about "The Case for Democracy," were you able to read that?

[Baker]

Well no has mentioned Bernard Goldberg's book Bias yet.

[CBL4]

When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly?

I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well.

Does it get any better?

CBL

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by CBL4
When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly?

I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well.

Does it get any better?

CBL

You and I are about the same distance into it, and out observations are similar. I've asked Darat to create a new sub-forum, we can bwegin discussing anytime.

[punchdrunk]

I'm having trouble getting a copy of The New Media Monopoly from the library but hope to join the discussion soon thereafter.

[shanek]

As I'm a big fan of, whenever possible, recommending books people can get online for free, I'm going to start off by recommending Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson:

http://www.fee.org/~web/Economics%20in%20One%20Lesson/Economics%20In%20One%20Lesson.pdf

Yes, it's an older tome, but I swear when you read it he could easily be talking about today. There are some specific examples that date it, but the concepts still apply. Some of it was downright prophetic.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Mycroft
After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy". I look forward to this. No matter one's outlook, I can't imagine a more important and informative book on the topic. (And it doesn't hurt that it's a fascinating read.)

[Mycroft]

Okay, June's book will be Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer, and Baker's and Shanek's suggestions will both be added to the list.

[Luke T.]

There is only one political science book I would foist on everyone, and some of you probably know what it is, since I mention it often here.

Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

America is the only country in which it has been possible to witness the natural and tranquil growth of society, and where the influence exercised on the future condition of states by their origin is clearly distinguishable.

The settlers who established themselves on the shores of New England all belonged to the more independent classes of their native country. Their union on the soil of America at once presented the singular phenomenon of a society containing neither lords nor common people, and we may almost say neither rich nor poor. These men possessed, in proportion to their number, a greater mass of intelligence than is to be found in any European nation of our own time. All, perhaps without a single exception, had received a good education, and many of them were known in Europe for their talents and their acquirements. The other colonies had been founded by adventurers without families; the immigrants of New England brought with them the best elements of order and morality; they landed on the desert coast accompanied by their wives and children. But what especially distinguished them from all others was the aim of their undertaking. They had not been obliged by necessity to leave their country; the social position they abandoned was one to be regretted, and their means of subsistence were certain. Nor did they cross the Atlantic to improve their situation or to increase their wealth; it was a purely intellectual craving that called them from the comforts of their former homes; and in facing the inevitable sufferings of exile their object was the triumph of an idea.

And you can read it, free, online here. (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/toc_indx.html)

[CBL4]

Do we have our next book chosen?

I personally would prefer "Courtroom 302" because it is next on my personal reading list but I am probably alone in that.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679432523/qid=1119477026/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-0286478-1111124?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

My two other suggestions are
"Tipping Point" by Gladwell.
"On Bullsh*t" by Harry Frankfurt

I am almost done with Guns, Germs and Steel" and I unnominate it even though it is an extraorinarily good book. I do not think it is appropriate for a book club because there is not that much to discuss. Diamond does such a great job that I do not think anyone without specific knowledge can dispute it.

Because it won a Pulitzer Prize I looked at the last 3 prize winners in General Non-Fiction.
2005 - Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001� by Steve Coll
2004 - "Gulag: A History" by Anne Applebaum
2003 - "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide
by Samantha Power

All sound interesting to me.

CBL

[Mycroft]

I'm glad you brought it up, I was thinking of "Tipping Point", but I'm willing to consider other suggestions.

I was also thinking of letting a month slide to give people (myself included) a chance to catch up. Imperial Hubris hasn't generated any conversation to speak of, and I think that's probably because not everyone has read it yet. Myself included.

[epepke]

Originally posted by CBL4
I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are:
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond

I second this, mostly because I actually have a copy.

[Kiless]

Freakonomics, A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side to Everything ?

[Orwell]

A Short History of Financial Euphoria, by John Kenneth Galbraith

[CBL4]

Orwell,

I do hope you join the discussions. Most of the people who participate share the same political views. I (and I think the others people) would welcome people to debate.

CBL

[Vagabond]

Does America Need a Foreign Policy by Henry Kissinger

This book was written just before 911 and is almost psychic in it's perceptions of things. Even he couldn't predict how things would change however tho.

[CapelDodger]

A Short History of Financial Euphoria, by John Kenneth GalbraithMoney : Whence it came, where it went by same author. (No moment spent reading Galbraith is wasted.)

Salonika : City of Ghosts by Mark Mazower. Not a book about politics, a book about a place, which is is where politics happens.

[Mycroft]

New book added, [i]"The Persian Puzzle" by Kenneth Pollack

[Almo]

Guns Germs and Steel was very interesting. I'm part way through Collapse right now, and it is most excellent. Having just read Beyond Oil, I'm now reading The Bottomless Well.

I'd like to see Collapse as the one.