Is Penta Water Finally Ready?... or just getting desperate?

[brodski]

Mark Fairhead, Director of "Team Penta UK," caused our collective JREF heart to throb wildly in anticipation when he wrote, "Who knows, perhaps we're edging closer to taking James' challenge up!"

Is it a coincidence that Penta are hinting at "proof" on an international stage only weeks after they where banned (http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,12980,1433653,00.html) from advertising their water as being in any way chemically or structurally different from "ordinary" water?

Maybe I'm just too cynical.;)

[Hastur]

I'd say desperation, but there will still be people who will accept those claims whole-heartedly regardless of what anyone says

[grunion]

Originally posted by brodski
... only weeks after they where banned from advertising their water as being in any way chemically or structurally different from "ordinary" water?

I don't know who the "ASA" is that "banned" them from falsely advertising the benefits of their product, but apparently they have no authority in California, where Penta water is displayed in abundance in my local Ralph's, accompanied by expensive-looking pamphlets making the most outrageous claims about "hydration" and the like.

[brodski]

The ASA is the UK’s advertising standards agency, unfortunately the USA has no remit outside of the UK, but it’s a start. Also Penta (UK) seems to think that the UK market is significant enough for them to make threats of violence against a journalist who subjected them and their product to mild sarcasm (see previous link).
This is fairly serious for Penta; in the eyes of eth law in the UK Penta is simply water, no different from ordinary tap water. Perhaps Penta (UK) may suffer come of the same fate as Coke (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3550063.stm) did in the water market

[Darat]

Originally posted by brodski


...snip...

unfortunately the USA has no remit outside of the UK

...snip...

"Freudian slip" I think. :)

[brodski]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by brodski


...snip...

unfortunately the USA has no remit outside of the UK

...snip...
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"Freudian slip" I think.


:o

Actually I stand by every statment I have made, there is lots of evidence backing up my claim, which I will post here when I can be botherd to fabricate.. sorry I mean find it.

;)

I once baught a girlfriend a "Freudian slip" once, but she would never wear it for me. :D

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by brodski
in the eyes of eth law in the UK Penta is simply water, no different from ordinary tap water.It's a pity the ASA can't go figure the same for homoeopathic remedies, too.

Rolfe.

[brodski]

Actually, unless my info is out of date, in the UK and the EU as a whole, the only homeopathic remedies which can make therapeutic claims are those which where registered for medical marketing prior to 1971. Any remedy introduced after 1971 may only be sold if it meets the following criteria.

In order to qualify for registration the products must:

Be for oral or external use. This includes all methods of administration with the exception of injections;
Be sufficiently dilute to guarantee their safety;
Make no therapeutic claims

full details here (http://medicines.mhra.gov.uk/ourwork/licensingmeds/types/homoeopathic.htm)

Seems like the EU has rely tightened up of those people selling "ancient, natural remedies" which are less than 24 years old;)

[Rolfe]

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail this.In order to qualify for registration the products must:

Be for oral or external use. This includes all methods of administration with the exception of injections;
Be sufficiently dilute to guarantee their safety;
Make no therapeutic claims That means that they can register anything they darn well please, and they got a load through just recently. They're also trying to get it extended to veterinary medicines, which has a whole other layer of legality to it. They simply put the therapeutic claims in separate little booklets, and/or leave it to the homoeopaths to make recommendations which of course also amount to therapeutic claims really.

The real nuttiness is that the homoeopaths swear that these things have a powerful physiological effect in their dilute state. So, do you believe them or not? If you don't, WHYTHEHELL ARE YOU LICENSING AND VALIDATING THE STUFF, YOU MORONS? If you do, then please explain exactly how the diluting ensures safety, especially in the light of the homoeopaths' own extensive reports of adverse reactions (sorry, aggravations and healing crises and so on).

OK, normal service in this thread will now be resumed.

Rolfe

[brodski]

Sorry, my naivety was showing.

Feel free to rant about homeopathy anytime, I've got some great stories about what homeopaths will say to peddle their DEATHWATER (tm).
I was given homeopathic vaccines as a kid, and I have heard people offer homeopathy coupled with reflexology instead of radiotherapy for Christ’s sake.

But on the positive side at least there is a legal difference between homeopathic remedies and real medicine.

[FatBat]

Originally posted by grunion
I don't know who the "ASA" is that "banned" them from falsely advertising the benefits of their product, but apparently they have no authority in California, where Penta water is displayed in abundance in my local Ralph's, accompanied by expensive-looking pamphlets making the most outrageous claims about "hydration" and the like.

The ASA is the UK's Advertising Standards Agency. You can read their judgment on Penta Water at http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Adjudication+Details.htm?adjudication_id=39409.

Unfortunately, the ASA is a bit of a toothless tiger - by the time they make a judgement, the offending advert is months old and the damage has already been done. On the other hand, some agencies deliberately provoke the ASA into action for publicity purposes. Clothing retailer French Connection UK fall into this category, with their fcuk related adverts.

[BillyJoe]

brodski,

Your sig doesn't make sense

"But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know...
and each year we find more of them."


How can we find any, let alone more, of the things we don't know we don't know if we don't know we don't know them?


interested,
BillyJoe

[brodski]

The ASA may be pretty toothless, but this does possibly pave the way for action under Trading Standards legislation, if only I could find somewhere near me which was selling Penta, I would make a complaint against them myself. Of course I would actually have to buy some of the water in order to make a case, can I bring myself to give money to con artists on the off chance that I may be able to get them prosecuted?

With regards to my Sig, this is a quote from a famous poem ; you can listen to a live recital
here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/38078000/rm/_38078601_rummer.ram), you can hear more by the same poet here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/bh/rumsfeld.shtml) or read his collected works online here (http://slate.msn.com/id/2081042/) ;)

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by brodski
With regards to my Sig, this is a quote from a famous poem ; you can listen to a live recital
here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/38078000/rm/_38078601_rummer.ram), you can hear more by the same poet here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/bh/rumsfeld.shtml) or read his collected works online here (http://slate.msn.com/id/2081042/) ;) Sounds like an appeal to authority to me. :cool:

BJ

[brodski]

Sounds like an appeal to authority to me.

maybe, but the author in question is, to my mind anyway,
neither an "authority" nor "appealing". :p

[BillyJoe]

I guess he could have meant that every year we find more unknown unknowns which thereby become known unknowns. :cool:

[brodski]

Possibly, but I prefer to think of him as a surrealist poet.

Charlie- the barnyard!

[BillyJoe]

Do enlighten us brodski. Thanks, BJ.

[brodski]

Enlighten you as to what?
I don’t claim to know what Rumsfeld (for it is he) was talking about, I just like the way he puts sounds and concepts together, seemingly starting with no real idea where he will end up logically.

I can offer no explanation for Charlie- the barnyard (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1770000/audio/_1773951_rumsfeld_e.ram) but that’s what he said.

Maybe he's speaking in code.

I should make it clear that I am not mocking Rumsfled here; I only wish that the UK could produce a political poet of such caliber.

The best we have is our beloved pie loving, farmer punching John Prescott.

[BillyJoe]

Well, now I'm inclined to think that he did not know what he was talking about.
But, then again, maybe I don't.

[brodski]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Well, now I'm inclined to think that he did not know what he was talking about.
But, then again, maybe I don't.

I think that this quote (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1770000/audio/_1773951_what_did_i_say.ram) supports your inclination :D

I think we can now considder this trhead well and truly derailed.
:)

[BillyJoe]

I can't seem to download any of your links. :(

[brodski]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I can't seem to download any of your links. :(

try
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/bh/rumsfeld.shtml

the quote I was revering you to is called "what did I say"

and goes

"I know what I said yesterday... well I don't know waht I said but I know what I think... I presume that's what I said"

poetry.

[BillyJoe]

A bit late, but I'm finally on your wavelength. :hit: